Need advice on the Iambic key

[Tom Hammond-3]

Hi Bill:

>So, before I condescend to selling my Bencher BY-2, retiring the J-38 for
>life and start building the K2 SSB board, the 100 watt amp and permanently
>retiring up-band, can someone give me some advice on possibly mastering the
>Iambic key.

NEVER GIVE UP...!

>  Questions include:
>
>1.  Iambic A or Iambic B?

Generally, most ops seem to prefer Mode B as it is a bit more 'forgiving'.

>2.  Proper contact spacing on the paddles?

Personal preference dominates here, but for starters, try using a QSL
card as a feeler gauge. This is generally a pretty good starting point.

NOTE: You'll probably get a LOT of 'opinions' here, so read ALL of
them and then try to choose what feels best to you.

Some folks who consider themselves 'speed merchants' like to set
their contacts to the point that I'd swear you could BLOW on the
paddles and have them close. This drives me NUTZ!!! And it is
certainly NOT RECOMMENDED for a newbie... you can do that later, once
you are an expert!

2a. You forgot to ask about spring tension. The BY-1 is (supposedly)
independently adjustable for tension, however given that the spring
can (eventually) 'roll' around the cylindrical post, you usually wind
up with both paddles adjusted to nearly the same tension... which is
not all that bad an idea anyway.

Again, 'personal' taste dominated here, but I like to set my paddles
(and I am a 25-40 WPM CW op, so these settings work well for me from
5 WPM to 40 WPM), such that I must exert a small amount of pressure
on the paddles to close them solidly, but NOT nearly so much pressure
that there's any chance of my moving the paddle base. I want to be
able to 1) HEAR a slight 'click' as the contact closes, to 2) FEEL a
bit of movement when that closure occurs, and finally 3) to feel a
small amount of resistance as I close the contacts.

>3.  Paddles n or Paddles r? I am right handed.

Paddle (N)ormal  E.g. DAH on the right, DIT on the left

>4.  How to best learn the art of Iambic keying. For instance start at 20 wpm
>and work down or 10 wpm and work up?

Did you ever put in any time on a bug? We'er of the same vintage
(licensed in '57-'58) it sound like, so you may have had some
familiarity with a bug.

IF you HAVE used a bug, you may find that you do not need (or want)
to use iambic keying... the keyer's still completely useful if you
never use any of the iambic features! NOT using iambic just means
that you don't try to learn 'squeeze keying'... how to keep one
paddle closed while flicking your other finger to 'insert' a DIT or
DAH in between the other element being generated. You'd basically use
the paddle as if it were a BUG, hitting one side for DITs and the
other side for DAHs, and merely alternating between the two paddles
to form characters. Generally easier than learning iambic.

Regardless of which mode you choose, start sending at a speed at or
just slightly above that at which you can copy. If you learn to send
at 20 WPM while only copying 10 WPM, you'll find yourself CQing at a
speed much above what you can copy and having responses at that same
speed... and having to ask for many QRS'.  One can always (almost)
always send faster than he can copy, so there's little problem in
cranking up the speed once you have the 'feel' for the paddles and the keyer.

>5.  Slap or caress the paddles?

NEVER SLAP!!!

Caress is probably not a bad description.

When one is sending CW with a paddle, there is a finite amount of
time required to make the DIT-to-DAH (or vice versa) transition. If
you 'slap' at the paddles, you fingers will be MUCH too widely spaced
(from the paddles) and you'll find that you'll have difficulty
getting your fingers TO the alternate paddle in time to properly
complete some characters. So, reduce the finger-to-paddle space as
much as possible.

You don't have to touch both paddles all the time, but your fingers
should be very close to them so only a small amount of movement is
required to make alternating closures of the paddles in order to make
timely contact closures of the contacts. If you don't make timely
closures, your individual characters will be 'broken' into two
separate characters, rather than being one complete character.

Also, many ops prefer to use the sides of their fingers to press
against the paddles. I've always found that the tips of my fingers
have more verve endings and that I have a finer paddle control if I
use the tips of my fingers (thumb and index finger) to key.

>6.  Is it just a matter of practice, practice and more practice? Kind of
>like soldering

Even more demanding than soldering! But equally more fun as well.
Even after 48 years of hamming I still find myself (esp. when the
bands are dead) sitting in front of the K2 (in CW TEST mode), sending
text out of QST into the air of the shack, just purely for fun and practice.

>7.  A reality check, maybe I am just too far gone to learn this skill. But,
>at one time,  I did have a pretty good fist     on  the J-38.

If you EVER were able to send good CW with a straight key, you CAN
learn to use a keyer and paddle... because you already know what good
CW should sound like!!

>So, I have returned to W1AW code practice sessions. I will take the K2 out
>of tESt (except on SKN New Years Eve), when I can once again copy up to
>15-20 wpm and hopefully transmitting with some vestige of skill using Iambic
>keying.

NO...!  TAKE IT OUT OF TEST MODE NOW!!!

NOW is the time to be OPERATING! GET ON THE AIR and USE your
abilities... use the J-38 as a starting point... you can probably get
up to 18-20 WPM with it yet, all the while improving your abilities
to copy.  You can be practicing with the keyer in TEST mode when not
on the air... but put in a LOT of on-the-air time right now. It's a
heck of a lot more enjoyable to improve your copying abilities by
having QSOs than the be sitting listening to W1AW... and, it's too
easy to hit the OFF button when copying W1AW... a bit more difficult
to do that during a QSO, which will force you to work a bit harder as
well. Find folks sending just a bit faster than you can copy 100%...
they'll press you to improve.

Also, try to participate in as many stateside small contests as
possible. Even if you are only on the air for an hour or two, such
activities will force you to copy at speeds higher than you can
handle comfortably.

If you can, find someone (possibly in FISTS) with whom you can
practice on a semi-regular basis and who HAS a good fist and can
'push' you to copy just a bit over your head.

Good luck...! STICK WITH YOUR CW!!!  NEVER GIVE UP!  It'll be too
much fun in the end.

73,

Tom Hammond    N0SS



_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Dan Barker]

Tom, of course the spring tension is the same on both paddles, the spring
just wraps around the rear post. However, the distance from the pivots to
the spring attachment point is individually adjustable. So, although the
spring tension is identical, left to right, that tension's torque (toward
opening the contact) is dependant on the lever arm from the pivot to the
spring grove on the screw (or is it a bolt<g>).

Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456

<snip>
2a. You forgot to ask about spring tension. The BY-1 is (supposedly)
independently adjustable for tension, however given that the spring
can (eventually) 'roll' around the cylindrical post, you usually wind
up with both paddles adjusted to nearly the same tension... which is
not all that bad an idea anyway.
</snip>

btw, I have mine adjusted so the opening torque is the same on both
paddles<g>.

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Mark, KJ7BS]

I agree with Tom.

"NO...!  TAKE IT OUT OF TEST MODE NOW!!!

NOW is the time to be OPERATING! GET ON THE AIR and USE your
abilities... use the J-38 as a starting point... you can probably get
up to 18-20 WPM with it yet, all the while improving your abilities
to copy. "

 There is simply NO better method to improve both your sending and receiving skill than to operate on the air, plus it's fun.  Any CW op worth their salt will always slow down to your sending speed (assuming most can copy what they can send, so don't send faster than you can copy).  If you run across a CW op that will not slow down, say no thank you and move on.

We all had horrible fists at one time and were slow.  I will never forget one of my first CW QSOs. as a new Technician with Morse code,  that laster over an hour.  Later I discovered the ham that listened to my shakey and poor fist was an Extra class operator.  That made an impression on me and to this day I do my best to "pay it forward" when I hear the slow unsteady fist of a new CW op.

Mark Saunders, KJ7BS
Glendale, AZ

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Mike Morrow-3]

Tom wrote:

>>1.  Iambic A or Iambic B?
>
>Generally, most ops seem to prefer Mode B as it is a bit more 'forgiving'.

Tom, much as I hate to, I'm going to disagree a little here.  

The paddle timing is quite a lot more critical in mode B than in mode A, since holding the paddles closed just a *tiny* bit too long at the end of an iambic string will cause an unwanted dit or dah to be generated, even though the paddle for that dit or dah was not closed.  In mode A, one gets a dit or dah ONLY if the paddle for the dit or dah has been closed.

There's no advantage to mode B over mode A in terms of paddle manipulations required to generate a particular character, but mode B may allow the paddles to be released a tiny bit earlier than mode A would.

I personally hate mode B, the mode that resulted from a logic flaw in an early electronic keyer that became advertised, a la Microsoft, as a "feature."  But, which ever mode one learns, the other will be hated.

I'd recommend learning mode B over mode A, because some ham rig manufacturers (such as Yaesu) have been arrogant enough to include keyers in some of their rigs that function only in mode B.  It's also obvious that, in some ham Morse-guru circles, some seem to consider the use of mode B as a sign of superiority.

73,
Mike / KK5F
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Dave Sublette]

One man's nemesis is another man's requirement.... By pure chance, I
learned to use a keyer with a Mode B machine many,,,many years ago. I
now find that I have trouble leaving off trailing dots if I use a Mode A
machine. So the remark that Mode B allows leaving off a tiny bit earlier
is right on. I need that little extra time. I'm sure I could retrain to
use a mode A machine, but at age 64 and 49 years experience on the air
perhaps doesn't allow for that.

73,

Dave, K4TO


Mike Morrow wrote:

> Tom wrote:
>
>>> 1.  Iambic A or Iambic B?
>> Generally, most ops seem to prefer Mode B as it is a bit more 'forgiving'.
>
> Tom, much as I hate to, I'm going to disagree a little here.  
>
> The paddle timing is quite a lot more critical in mode B than in mode A, since holding the paddles closed just a *tiny* bit too long at the end of an iambic string will cause an unwanted dit or dah to be generated, even though the paddle for that dit or dah was not closed.  In mode A, one gets a dit or dah ONLY if the paddle for the dit or dah has been closed.
>
> There's no advantage to mode B over mode A in terms of paddle manipulations required to generate a particular character, but mode B may allow the paddles to be released a tiny bit earlier than mode A would.
>
> I personally hate mode B, the mode that resulted from a logic flaw in an early electronic keyer that became advertised, a la Microsoft, as a "feature."  But, which ever mode one learns, the other will be hated.
>
> I'd recommend learning mode B over mode A, because some ham rig manufacturers (such as Yaesu) have been arrogant enough to include keyers in some of their rigs that function only in mode B.  It's also obvious that, in some ham Morse-guru circles, some seem to consider the use of mode B as a sign of superiority.
>
> 73,
> Mike / KK5F
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Brian Murrey-2]

I'm just a slap keyer I guess.  Never could figure out that Iambic
stuff...when to squeeze, when not to squeeze...so I just flop my digits back
and forth.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Morrow" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Need advice on the Iambic key


> Tom wrote:
>
> >>1.  Iambic A or Iambic B?
> >
> >Generally, most ops seem to prefer Mode B as it is a bit more 'forgiving'.
>
> Tom, much as I hate to, I'm going to disagree a little here.
>
> The paddle timing is quite a lot more critical in mode B than in mode A,
since holding the paddles closed just a *tiny* bit too long at the end of an
iambic string will cause an unwanted dit or dah to be generated, even though
the paddle for that dit or dah was not closed.  In mode A, one gets a dit or
dah ONLY if the paddle for the dit or dah has been closed.
>
> There's no advantage to mode B over mode A in terms of paddle manipulations
required to generate a particular character, but mode B may allow the paddles
to be released a tiny bit earlier than mode A would.
>
> I personally hate mode B, the mode that resulted from a logic flaw in an
early electronic keyer that became advertised, a la Microsoft, as a "feature."
But, which ever mode one learns, the other will be hated.
>
> I'd recommend learning mode B over mode A, because some ham rig
manufacturers (such as Yaesu) have been arrogant enough to include keyers in
some of their rigs that function only in mode B.  It's also obvious that, in
some ham Morse-guru circles, some seem to consider the use of mode B as a sign
of superiority.

>
> 73,
> Mike / KK5F
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[w6jd]

That's my technique too.

Doug
W6JD

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Brian Murrey" <[hidden email]>

> I'm just a slap keyer I guess. Never could figure out that Iambic
> stuff...when to squeeze, when not to squeeze...so I just flop my digits back
> and forth.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Morrow"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Need advice on the Iambic key
>
>
> > Tom wrote:
> >
> > >>1. Iambic A or Iambic B?
> > >
> > >Generally, most ops seem to prefer Mode B as it is a bit more 'forgiving'.
> >
> > Tom, much as I hate to, I'm going to disagree a little here.
> >
> > The paddle timing is quite a lot more critical in mode B than in mode A,
> since holding the paddles closed just a *tiny* bit too long at the end of an
> iambic string will cause an unwanted dit or dah to be generated, even though
> the paddle for that dit or dah was not closed. In mode A, one gets a dit or
> dah ONLY if the paddle for the dit or dah has been closed.
> >
> > There's no advantage to mode B over mode A in terms of paddle manipulations
> required to generate a particular character, but mode B may allow the paddles
> to be released a tiny bit earlier than mode A would.
> >
> > I personally hate mode B, the mode that resulted from a logic flaw in an
> early electronic keyer that became advertised, a la Microsoft, as a "feature."
> But, which ever mode one learns, the other will be hated.
> >
> > I'd recommend learning mode B over mode A, because some ham rig
> manufacturers (such as Yaesu) have been arrogant enough to include keyers in
> some of their rigs that function only in mode B. It's also obvious that, in
> some ham Morse-guru circles, some seem to consider the use of mode B as a sign
> of superiority.
> >
> > 73,
> > Mike / KK5F
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft 
> >
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm 
> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft 
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm 
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com 

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Mike Harris-9]

G'day,

Well my set up here is:

Mode B
PdLr
I'm mainly left handed and send dashes with my thumb
Have a Bencher BY-2 or whatever the two paddled horror is called and I
don't like it

Will probably get a single paddle soon, probably Kent kit.  My first keyer
was a Samson (sp) ETM-2B which I used for two years sending weather obs in
the Antarctic thirty years ago.  My second keyer is a K2!  I guess I don't
make much use of iambic except when sending CQ.  There is only a small
advantage in key strokes between iambic and single paddle.  Using a single
paddle I just roll the tip of my finger and ball of my thumb on the paddle
and it works just fine, for me.

How did the dots with the thumb happen.  Right at my beginning with the
ETM-2B I rather thought that sending the fastest element with the slowest
responding digit seemed odd and have sent dits with my finger ever since.
There again as I said above, I'm a mainly left handed hybrid.

In single paddle mode, mode A or B seem to work the same for me.

And remember, only left handed people are in their right mind.  Think
brain hemispheres.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com