Elecraft

New Elecraft K4 has great Rx Audio on CW pileups, no more mush

Classic

List

Threaded

8 messages Options

Bob Wilson, N6TV

New Elecraft K4 has great Rx Audio on CW pileups, no more mush

Summary: The K4D Receiver Audio and QSK performance seems outstanding --
I'm sold.

I hesitated to order a K4 until I could hear how one sounded in "real
world" pileup conditions, compared to my trusty 11-year old K3s (S/N 1494
and 1495 with KSYN3A upgrades).

Well, here is a short recording I made while operating a K4D Field Test
unit during the All Asian CW Contest this past weekend, so you can have a
listen to the QSK performance and the audio tones when several stations are
calling on about the same frequency all at once, which is the typical
"pileup mush" situation that has been so difficult for most modern radios
to handle (including the K3):

https://www.kkn.net/~n6tv/Pileup_Audio_on_K4D_Field_Test_N6TV.mp3

(Headphones recommended).

With 2 or 3 guys calling, it seemed *so* much easier to pick out callsigns
with the K4D, compared to my K3, especially when they were very close in
frequency, which was often. The audio distortion and "beat note buzzing" I
still occasionally hear on the K3 is not heard on the K4. *This alone is
reason enough for me to order a second K4D* for SO2R contesting.

Note: The "thumps" and clicks you hear in the recording while I'm
transmitting with full QSK are mostly a side effect of the analog recording
method used (rear headphone jack, long cable, ungrounded radio, and
microHAM MK2R+ sound card). I think some RF is still getting into the
MK2R+ despite lots of ferrites. The "thumps" are not heard in the front
panel headphone jack of the K4. The stereo USB Sound in the K4D won't have
these issues.

I also toggled PRE1 and NR (level 4) when a weak one would call, and it
really seemed to help pull them out of the noise. I put both receivers on
the same frequency and used A/B to toggle both settings ON and OFF at the
same time with a single tap (Main RX had PRE OFF and NR OFF, Sub RX had
PRE1 ON and NR ON, and I would swap them). I modified my Win-Test scripts
<https://bit.ly/wtscripts> so I could swap A/B from the keyboard of my
logging program. I've also made scope control work from the Win-Test
keyboard, as with my P3 scripts. The radio responds to CAT commands
instantly, as does the touch screen display.

Unlike the K3, I could keep the RF Gain at MAX and hear no real problem
until the bands got really noisy, then backing it off helped a bit, as did
the attenuator. But I like the way the fast AGC worked. Loud stations
never hammered my ears, and there's a new "AGC attack time" setting that we
don't have in the K3 that will require further experimentation.

As for QSK, I went back and forth between QSK ON and QSK OFF, Delay 0.00.
There's a huge difference. QSK OFF Delay 0.00 is much quieter, but I like
to hear more between elements.

QSK performance was *way* better than the K3, especially at high speed (I
went up to 39 WPM). Amp. is a KPA1500. No CW jitter was observed, so "CW
QRQ" mode is no longer needed to send clean CW at high speed with either
internal or external keying. I used 5 ms of keying compensation and got
good reports from that, but I need to get out my scope and make some
measurements.

I figured I would eventually want to order the K4 "HD" model, but I may not
need it. So far the receiver performance seems really good, even when
getting close to loud signals. But I don't have a way to make the careful
receiver performance measurements that Rob Sherwood, NC0B, can make.

The band scope has much finer resolution than the P3 or an IC-7851, but I
still need to experiment with an external HDMI monitor, which will provide
even more pixels for the band scope.

Physically, a K4D is smaller than the K3/P3 combo. side by side, and it's
only about 3/4" taller and maybe an inch deeper.

The K4 buttons have a very nice tactile feel, much improved over the K3.
Every knob except AF Gain seems to be an optical encoder rather than a pot,
which means there is potential to control just about everything from your
logging program keyboard, without having to touch the radio.

The "tap to tune" feature of the waterfall display seems to work well for
making big frequency movements. I need to try it with a USB mouse. Better
than that, there's a new method to automatically adjust the band noise
level on the scope so you don't have to constantly fiddle with a "REF LVL"
setting as we do on the P3.

There's more to write, but this post is long enough already.

In sum, I know we've all been waiting a long time for the K4 to be
delivered. I think it will be well worth the wait, and that your patience
will be rewarded. Meanwhile, me and my fellow volunteer Field Testers will
be very busy trying to find all the bugs so that you won't have to. :-)
But as delivered to us, it seems very stable, and very usable. Most of the
major features are working quite well at this point.

73,
Bob, N6TV
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Barry

Re: New Elecraft K4 has great Rx Audio on CW pileups, no more mush

Listening to the recording, I find the thumping during xmit very annoying.

Barry W2UP

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Vic Rosenthal

Re: New Elecraft K4 has great Rx Audio on CW pileups, no more mush

In reply to this post by Bob Wilson, N6TV

I certainly hope the clicking I hear on the sidetone is an artifact of
the recording process, or something that will go away with the
production version of the K4!

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
.
On 23/06/2020 12:41, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

> Summary: The K4D Receiver Audio and QSK performance seems outstanding --
> I'm sold.
>
> I hesitated to order a K4 until I could hear how one sounded in "real
> world" pileup conditions, compared to my trusty 11-year old K3s (S/N 1494
> and 1495 with KSYN3A upgrades).
>
> Well, here is a short recording I made while operating a K4D Field Test
> unit during the All Asian CW Contest this past weekend, so you can have a
> listen to the QSK performance and the audio tones when several stations are
> calling on about the same frequency all at once, which is the typical
> "pileup mush" situation that has been so difficult for most modern radios
> to handle (including the K3):
>
> https://www.kkn.net/~n6tv/Pileup_Audio_on_K4D_Field_Test_N6TV.mp3
>
> (Headphones recommended).
>
> With 2 or 3 guys calling, it seemed *so* much easier to pick out callsigns
> with the K4D, compared to my K3, especially when they were very close in
> frequency, which was often. The audio distortion and "beat note buzzing" I
> still occasionally hear on the K3 is not heard on the K4. *This alone is
> reason enough for me to order a second K4D* for SO2R contesting.
>
> Note: The "thumps" and clicks you hear in the recording while I'm
> transmitting with full QSK are mostly a side effect of the analog recording
> method used (rear headphone jack, long cable, ungrounded radio, and
> microHAM MK2R+ sound card). I think some RF is still getting into the
> MK2R+ despite lots of ferrites. The "thumps" are not heard in the front
> panel headphone jack of the K4. The stereo USB Sound in the K4D won't have
> these issues.
>
> I also toggled PRE1 and NR (level 4) when a weak one would call, and it
> really seemed to help pull them out of the noise. I put both receivers on
> the same frequency and used A/B to toggle both settings ON and OFF at the
> same time with a single tap (Main RX had PRE OFF and NR OFF, Sub RX had
> PRE1 ON and NR ON, and I would swap them). I modified my Win-Test scripts
> <https://bit.ly/wtscripts> so I could swap A/B from the keyboard of my
> logging program. I've also made scope control work from the Win-Test
> keyboard, as with my P3 scripts. The radio responds to CAT commands
> instantly, as does the touch screen display.
>
> Unlike the K3, I could keep the RF Gain at MAX and hear no real problem
> until the bands got really noisy, then backing it off helped a bit, as did
> the attenuator. But I like the way the fast AGC worked. Loud stations
> never hammered my ears, and there's a new "AGC attack time" setting that we
> don't have in the K3 that will require further experimentation.
>
> As for QSK, I went back and forth between QSK ON and QSK OFF, Delay 0.00.
> There's a huge difference. QSK OFF Delay 0.00 is much quieter, but I like
> to hear more between elements.
>
> QSK performance was *way* better than the K3, especially at high speed (I
> went up to 39 WPM). Amp. is a KPA1500. No CW jitter was observed, so "CW
> QRQ" mode is no longer needed to send clean CW at high speed with either
> internal or external keying. I used 5 ms of keying compensation and got
> good reports from that, but I need to get out my scope and make some
> measurements.
>
> I figured I would eventually want to order the K4 "HD" model, but I may not
> need it. So far the receiver performance seems really good, even when
> getting close to loud signals. But I don't have a way to make the careful
> receiver performance measurements that Rob Sherwood, NC0B, can make.
>
> The band scope has much finer resolution than the P3 or an IC-7851, but I
> still need to experiment with an external HDMI monitor, which will provide
> even more pixels for the band scope.
>
> Physically, a K4D is smaller than the K3/P3 combo. side by side, and it's
> only about 3/4" taller and maybe an inch deeper.
>
> The K4 buttons have a very nice tactile feel, much improved over the K3.
> Every knob except AF Gain seems to be an optical encoder rather than a pot,
> which means there is potential to control just about everything from your
> logging program keyboard, without having to touch the radio.
>
> The "tap to tune" feature of the waterfall display seems to work well for
> making big frequency movements. I need to try it with a USB mouse. Better
> than that, there's a new method to automatically adjust the band noise
> level on the scope so you don't have to constantly fiddle with a "REF LVL"
> setting as we do on the P3.
>
> There's more to write, but this post is long enough already.
>
> In sum, I know we've all been waiting a long time for the K4 to be
> delivered. I think it will be well worth the wait, and that your patience
> will be rewarded. Meanwhile, me and my fellow volunteer Field Testers will
> be very busy trying to find all the bugs so that you won't have to. :-)
> But as delivered to us, it seems very stable, and very usable. Most of the
> major features are working quite well at this point.
>
> 73,
> Bob, N6TV
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Vic Rosenthal

Re: New Elecraft K4 has great Rx Audio on CW pileups, no more mush

Oops, sorry, I listened to the recording before reading the message!

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
On 23/06/2020 16:23, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:

> I certainly hope the clicking I hear on the sidetone is an artifact of
> the recording process, or something that will go away with the
> production version of the K4!
>
>
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> Formerly K2VCO
> CWops no. 5
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> .
> On 23/06/2020 12:41, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
>> Summary: The K4D Receiver Audio and QSK performance seems outstanding --
>> I'm sold.
>>
>> I hesitated to order a K4 until I could hear how one sounded in "real
>> world" pileup conditions, compared to my trusty 11-year old K3s (S/N 1494
>> and 1495 with KSYN3A upgrades).
>>
>> Well, here is a short recording I made while operating a K4D Field Test
>> unit during the All Asian CW Contest this past weekend, so you can have a
>> listen to the QSK performance and the audio tones when several
>> stations are
>> calling on about the same frequency all at once, which is the typical
>> "pileup mush" situation that has been so difficult for most modern radios
>> to handle (including the K3):
>>
>> https://www.kkn.net/~n6tv/Pileup_Audio_on_K4D_Field_Test_N6TV.mp3
>>
>> (Headphones recommended).
>>
>> With 2 or 3 guys calling, it seemed *so* much easier to pick out
>> callsigns
>> with the K4D, compared to my K3, especially when they were very close in
>> frequency, which was often. The audio distortion and "beat note
>> buzzing" I
>> still occasionally hear on the K3 is not heard on the K4. *This alone is
>> reason enough for me to order a second K4D* for SO2R contesting.
>>
>> Note: The "thumps" and clicks you hear in the recording while I'm
>> transmitting with full QSK are mostly a side effect of the analog
>> recording
>> method used (rear headphone jack, long cable, ungrounded radio, and
>> microHAM MK2R+ sound card). I think some RF is still getting into the
>> MK2R+ despite lots of ferrites. The "thumps" are not heard in the front
>> panel headphone jack of the K4. The stereo USB Sound in the K4D won't
>> have
>> these issues.
>>
>> I also toggled PRE1 and NR (level 4) when a weak one would call, and it
>> really seemed to help pull them out of the noise. I put both
>> receivers on
>> the same frequency and used A/B to toggle both settings ON and OFF at the
>> same time with a single tap (Main RX had PRE OFF and NR OFF, Sub RX had
>> PRE1 ON and NR ON, and I would swap them). I modified my Win-Test
>> scripts
>> <https://bit.ly/wtscripts> so I could swap A/B from the keyboard of my
>> logging program. I've also made scope control work from the Win-Test
>> keyboard, as with my P3 scripts. The radio responds to CAT commands
>> instantly, as does the touch screen display.
>>
>> Unlike the K3, I could keep the RF Gain at MAX and hear no real problem
>> until the bands got really noisy, then backing it off helped a bit, as
>> did
>> the attenuator. But I like the way the fast AGC worked. Loud stations
>> never hammered my ears, and there's a new "AGC attack time" setting
>> that we
>> don't have in the K3 that will require further experimentation.
>>
>> As for QSK, I went back and forth between QSK ON and QSK OFF, Delay 0.00.
>> There's a huge difference. QSK OFF Delay 0.00 is much quieter, but I
>> like
>> to hear more between elements.
>>
>> QSK performance was *way* better than the K3, especially at high speed (I
>> went up to 39 WPM). Amp. is a KPA1500. No CW jitter was observed,
>> so "CW
>> QRQ" mode is no longer needed to send clean CW at high speed with either
>> internal or external keying. I used 5 ms of keying compensation and got
>> good reports from that, but I need to get out my scope and make some
>> measurements.
>>
>> I figured I would eventually want to order the K4 "HD" model, but I
>> may not
>> need it. So far the receiver performance seems really good, even when
>> getting close to loud signals. But I don't have a way to make the
>> careful
>> receiver performance measurements that Rob Sherwood, NC0B, can make.
>>
>> The band scope has much finer resolution than the P3 or an IC-7851, but I
>> still need to experiment with an external HDMI monitor, which will
>> provide
>> even more pixels for the band scope.
>>
>> Physically, a K4D is smaller than the K3/P3 combo. side by side, and
>> it's
>> only about 3/4" taller and maybe an inch deeper.
>>
>> The K4 buttons have a very nice tactile feel, much improved over the K3.
>> Every knob except AF Gain seems to be an optical encoder rather than a
>> pot,
>> which means there is potential to control just about everything from your
>> logging program keyboard, without having to touch the radio.
>>
>> The "tap to tune" feature of the waterfall display seems to work well for
>> making big frequency movements. I need to try it with a USB mouse.
>> Better
>> than that, there's a new method to automatically adjust the band noise
>> level on the scope so you don't have to constantly fiddle with a "REF
>> LVL"
>> setting as we do on the P3.
>>
>> There's more to write, but this post is long enough already.
>>
>> In sum, I know we've all been waiting a long time for the K4 to be
>> delivered. I think it will be well worth the wait, and that your
>> patience
>> will be rewarded. Meanwhile, me and my fellow volunteer Field Testers
>> will
>> be very busy trying to find all the bugs so that you won't have to. :-)
>> But as delivered to us, it seems very stable, and very usable. Most
>> of the
>> major features are working quite well at this point.
>>
>> 73,
>> Bob, N6TV
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>

Paul Hvidston

Re: New Elecraft K4 has great Rx Audio on CW pileups, no more mush

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

Just sounds like the audio muting during key-down. The K4 speaker
probably rolls off below 300Hz while your recording has higher fidelity.
External audio devices would have to roll off the low frequency to avoid
it. I bet if the K4 used a VCA rather than a simple clamp you probably
would not hear this on the line-out during keying. No idea if it is
simple hardware or a DSP operation (easily fixed). Either way, the K4 is
impressive.

72 de Paul/N6MGN

On 6/23/2020 7:23 AM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:

> I certainly hope the clicking I hear on the sidetone is an artifact of
> the recording process, or something that will go away with the
> production version of the K4!
>
>
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> Formerly K2VCO
> CWops no. 5
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> .
> On 23/06/2020 12:41, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
>> Summary: The K4D Receiver Audio and QSK performance seems
>> outstanding --
>> I'm sold.
>>
>> I hesitated to order a K4 until I could hear how one sounded in "real
>> world" pileup conditions, compared to my trusty 11-year old K3s (S/N
>> 1494
>> and 1495 with KSYN3A upgrades).
>>
>> Well, here is a short recording I made while operating a K4D Field Test
>> unit during the All Asian CW Contest this past weekend, so you can
>> have a
>> listen to the QSK performance and the audio tones when several
>> stations are
>> calling on about the same frequency all at once, which is the typical
>> "pileup mush" situation that has been so difficult for most modern
>> radios
>> to handle (including the K3):
>>
>> https://www.kkn.net/~n6tv/Pileup_Audio_on_K4D_Field_Test_N6TV.mp3
>>
>> (Headphones recommended).
>>
>> With 2 or 3 guys calling, it seemed *so* much easier to pick out
>> callsigns
>> with the K4D, compared to my K3, especially when they were very close in
>> frequency, which was often. The audio distortion and "beat note
>> buzzing" I
>> still occasionally hear on the K3 is not heard on the K4. *This alone is
>> reason enough for me to order a second K4D* for SO2R contesting.
>>
>> Note: The "thumps" and clicks you hear in the recording while I'm
>> transmitting with full QSK are mostly a side effect of the analog
>> recording
>> method used (rear headphone jack, long cable, ungrounded radio, and
>> microHAM MK2R+ sound card). I think some RF is still getting into the
>> MK2R+ despite lots of ferrites. The "thumps" are not heard in the front
>> panel headphone jack of the K4. The stereo USB Sound in the K4D
>> won't have
>> these issues.
>>
>> I also toggled PRE1 and NR (level 4) when a weak one would call, and it
>> really seemed to help pull them out of the noise. I put both
>> receivers on
>> the same frequency and used A/B to toggle both settings ON and OFF at
>> the
>> same time with a single tap (Main RX had PRE OFF and NR OFF, Sub RX had
>> PRE1 ON and NR ON, and I would swap them). I modified my Win-Test
>> scripts
>> <https://bit.ly/wtscripts> so I could swap A/B from the keyboard of my
>> logging program. I've also made scope control work from the Win-Test
>> keyboard, as with my P3 scripts. The radio responds to CAT commands
>> instantly, as does the touch screen display.
>>
>> Unlike the K3, I could keep the RF Gain at MAX and hear no real problem
>> until the bands got really noisy, then backing it off helped a bit,
>> as did
>> the attenuator. But I like the way the fast AGC worked. Loud stations
>> never hammered my ears, and there's a new "AGC attack time" setting
>> that we
>> don't have in the K3 that will require further experimentation.
>>
>> As for QSK, I went back and forth between QSK ON and QSK OFF, Delay
>> 0.00.
>> There's a huge difference. QSK OFF Delay 0.00 is much quieter, but I
>> like
>> to hear more between elements.
>>
>> QSK performance was *way* better than the K3, especially at high
>> speed (I
>> went up to 39 WPM). Amp. is a KPA1500. No CW jitter was observed,
>> so "CW
>> QRQ" mode is no longer needed to send clean CW at high speed with either
>> internal or external keying. I used 5 ms of keying compensation and got
>> good reports from that, but I need to get out my scope and make some
>> measurements.
>>
>> I figured I would eventually want to order the K4 "HD" model, but I
>> may not
>> need it. So far the receiver performance seems really good, even when
>> getting close to loud signals. But I don't have a way to make the
>> careful
>> receiver performance measurements that Rob Sherwood, NC0B, can make.
>>
>> The band scope has much finer resolution than the P3 or an IC-7851,
>> but I
>> still need to experiment with an external HDMI monitor, which will
>> provide
>> even more pixels for the band scope.
>>
>> Physically, a K4D is smaller than the K3/P3 combo. side by side, and
>> it's
>> only about 3/4" taller and maybe an inch deeper.
>>
>> The K4 buttons have a very nice tactile feel, much improved over the K3.
>> Every knob except AF Gain seems to be an optical encoder rather than
>> a pot,
>> which means there is potential to control just about everything from
>> your
>> logging program keyboard, without having to touch the radio.
>>
>> The "tap to tune" feature of the waterfall display seems to work well
>> for
>> making big frequency movements. I need to try it with a USB mouse.
>> Better
>> than that, there's a new method to automatically adjust the band noise
>> level on the scope so you don't have to constantly fiddle with a "REF
>> LVL"
>> setting as we do on the P3.
>>
>> There's more to write, but this post is long enough already.
>>
>> In sum, I know we've all been waiting a long time for the K4 to be
>> delivered. I think it will be well worth the wait, and that your
>> patience
>> will be rewarded. Meanwhile, me and my fellow volunteer Field
>> Testers will
>> be very busy trying to find all the bugs so that you won't have to. :-)
>> But as delivered to us, it seems very stable, and very usable. Most
>> of the
>> major features are working quite well at this point.
>>
>> 73,
>> Bob, N6TV
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

wayne burdick

Re: New Elecraft K4 has great Rx Audio on CW pileups, no more mush

Administrator

Paul,

The K4's DSP smoothly ramps audio up/down during muting. There's no "clamp."

The artifacts in the recording are not coming from the K4; they're probably due to RFI getting into the external recording device's cables, as Bob mentioned in his posting.

Wayne

> On Jun 23, 2020, at 9:11 AM, Paul Hvidston <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Just sounds like the audio muting during key-down. The K4 speaker
> probably rolls off below 300Hz while your recording has higher fidelity.
> External audio devices would have to roll off the low frequency to avoid
> it. I bet if the K4 used a VCA rather than a simple clamp you probably
> would not hear this on the line-out during keying. No idea if it is
> simple hardware or a DSP operation (easily fixed). Either way, the K4 is
> impressive.
>
> 72 de Paul/N6MGN
>
> On 6/23/2020 7:23 AM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:
>> I certainly hope the clicking I hear on the sidetone is an artifact of
>> the recording process, or something that will go away with the
>> production version of the K4!
>>
>>
>> 73,
>> Victor, 4X6GP
>> Rehovot, Israel
>> Formerly K2VCO
>> CWops no. 5
>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>> .
>> On 23/06/2020 12:41, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
>>> Summary: The K4D Receiver Audio and QSK performance seems
>>> outstanding --
>>> I'm sold.
>>>
>>> I hesitated to order a K4 until I could hear how one sounded in "real
>>> world" pileup conditions, compared to my trusty 11-year old K3s (S/N
>>> 1494
>>> and 1495 with KSYN3A upgrades).
>>>
>>> Well, here is a short recording I made while operating a K4D Field Test
>>> unit during the All Asian CW Contest this past weekend, so you can
>>> have a
>>> listen to the QSK performance and the audio tones when several
>>> stations are
>>> calling on about the same frequency all at once, which is the typical
>>> "pileup mush" situation that has been so difficult for most modern
>>> radios
>>> to handle (including the K3):
>>>
>>> https://www.kkn.net/~n6tv/Pileup_Audio_on_K4D_Field_Test_N6TV.mp3
>>>
>>> (Headphones recommended).
>>>
>>> With 2 or 3 guys calling, it seemed *so* much easier to pick out
>>> callsigns
>>> with the K4D, compared to my K3, especially when they were very close in
>>> frequency, which was often. The audio distortion and "beat note
>>> buzzing" I
>>> still occasionally hear on the K3 is not heard on the K4. *This alone is
>>> reason enough for me to order a second K4D* for SO2R contesting.
>>>
>>> Note: The "thumps" and clicks you hear in the recording while I'm
>>> transmitting with full QSK are mostly a side effect of the analog
>>> recording
>>> method used (rear headphone jack, long cable, ungrounded radio, and
>>> microHAM MK2R+ sound card). I think some RF is still getting into the
>>> MK2R+ despite lots of ferrites. The "thumps" are not heard in the front
>>> panel headphone jack of the K4. The stereo USB Sound in the K4D
>>> won't have
>>> these issues.
>>>
>>> I also toggled PRE1 and NR (level 4) when a weak one would call, and it
>>> really seemed to help pull them out of the noise. I put both
>>> receivers on
>>> the same frequency and used A/B to toggle both settings ON and OFF at
>>> the
>>> same time with a single tap (Main RX had PRE OFF and NR OFF, Sub RX had
>>> PRE1 ON and NR ON, and I would swap them). I modified my Win-Test
>>> scripts
>>> <https://bit.ly/wtscripts> so I could swap A/B from the keyboard of my
>>> logging program. I've also made scope control work from the Win-Test
>>> keyboard, as with my P3 scripts. The radio responds to CAT commands
>>> instantly, as does the touch screen display.
>>>
>>> Unlike the K3, I could keep the RF Gain at MAX and hear no real problem
>>> until the bands got really noisy, then backing it off helped a bit,
>>> as did
>>> the attenuator. But I like the way the fast AGC worked. Loud stations
>>> never hammered my ears, and there's a new "AGC attack time" setting
>>> that we
>>> don't have in the K3 that will require further experimentation.
>>>
>>> As for QSK, I went back and forth between QSK ON and QSK OFF, Delay
>>> 0.00.
>>> There's a huge difference. QSK OFF Delay 0.00 is much quieter, but I
>>> like
>>> to hear more between elements.
>>>
>>> QSK performance was *way* better than the K3, especially at high
>>> speed (I
>>> went up to 39 WPM). Amp. is a KPA1500. No CW jitter was observed,
>>> so "CW
>>> QRQ" mode is no longer needed to send clean CW at high speed with either
>>> internal or external keying. I used 5 ms of keying compensation and got
>>> good reports from that, but I need to get out my scope and make some
>>> measurements.
>>>
>>> I figured I would eventually want to order the K4 "HD" model, but I
>>> may not
>>> need it. So far the receiver performance seems really good, even when
>>> getting close to loud signals. But I don't have a way to make the
>>> careful
>>> receiver performance measurements that Rob Sherwood, NC0B, can make.
>>>
>>> The band scope has much finer resolution than the P3 or an IC-7851,
>>> but I
>>> still need to experiment with an external HDMI monitor, which will
>>> provide
>>> even more pixels for the band scope.
>>>
>>> Physically, a K4D is smaller than the K3/P3 combo. side by side, and
>>> it's
>>> only about 3/4" taller and maybe an inch deeper.
>>>
>>> The K4 buttons have a very nice tactile feel, much improved over the K3.
>>> Every knob except AF Gain seems to be an optical encoder rather than
>>> a pot,
>>> which means there is potential to control just about everything from
>>> your
>>> logging program keyboard, without having to touch the radio.
>>>
>>> The "tap to tune" feature of the waterfall display seems to work well
>>> for
>>> making big frequency movements. I need to try it with a USB mouse.
>>> Better
>>> than that, there's a new method to automatically adjust the band noise
>>> level on the scope so you don't have to constantly fiddle with a "REF
>>> LVL"
>>> setting as we do on the P3.
>>>
>>> There's more to write, but this post is long enough already.
>>>
>>> In sum, I know we've all been waiting a long time for the K4 to be
>>> delivered. I think it will be well worth the wait, and that your
>>> patience
>>> will be rewarded. Meanwhile, me and my fellow volunteer Field
>>> Testers will
>>> be very busy trying to find all the bugs so that you won't have to. :-)
>>> But as delivered to us, it seems very stable, and very usable. Most
>>> of the
>>> major features are working quite well at this point.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Bob, N6TV
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Barry

Re: New Elecraft K4 has great Rx Audio on CW pileups, no more mush

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

Oops, sorry, I listened to the recording before reading the message!

Double oops. Me, too!

Barry W2UP

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

WILLIE BABER

Re: New Elecraft K4 has great Rx Audio on CW pileups, no more mush

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

I think the point of the recording was to illustrate receiver recover between elements while sending high speed cw.
I would like to know how much better is k4 than k3, which would mean hearing more between elements of cw at high speed; a better recording is needed or one has to operate the radio itself. Bob's opinion does carry some weight however.
FYI, I could not take full advantage of k3 qsk using HP until I got the kpa1500.
73, will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/

On Tuesday, June 23, 2020, 9:22:19 AM PDT, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

Paul,

The K4's DSP smoothly ramps audio up/down during muting. There's no "clamp."

The artifacts in the recording are not coming from the K4; they're probably due to RFI getting into the external recording device's cables, as Bob mentioned in his posting.

Wayne

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]