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New Synth Question...

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NK7Z

New Synth Question...

Hello,

I have the new SYNTHs installed, and all is working as it seems it
should. As soon as I installed the nnew Synthys, I saw a sawtooth
waveform when looking at very small frequency corrections. On the order
of about 1/4 HZ. steps, then a correction, then another 1/4 HZ step,
etc.

If I were to get the frequency standard for the K3, will that reduce the
step size?

I use SBSpectrum, and Spectrum Labs to look at VERY SMALL frequency
changes, and I would like to get back to the nice smooth line presented
by the old Synths...
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

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Mark Bayern

Re: New Synth Question...

Check Elecraft's website for the latest mod. The frequency shift it
describes might be what you're observing. The good news? There is an
easy fix.

From the application note:

"The K3EXREF option allows the K3 to be closely locked to an external
10-MHz reference. Some K3 owners reported a pe"riodic frequency jump
of up to 40 Hz on 2 meters (using the K3’s K144XV module with PLL lock
option) when the K3EXREF board was added. We found that the K3EXREF
was causing a shift in the 49.380-MHz reference oscillator frequency.
This can be fixed with a simple modification to the KREF3 module.

Mark AD5SS

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 2:47 PM, David Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have the new SYNTHs installed, and all is working as it seems it
> should. As soon as I installed the nnew Synthys, I saw a sawtooth
> waveform when looking at very small frequency corrections. On the order
> of about 1/4 HZ. steps, then a correction, then another 1/4 HZ step,
> etc.
>
> If I were to get the frequency standard for the K3, will that reduce the
> step size?
>

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: New Synth Question...

Administrator

I believe the small 1/4 Hz steps are a normal result of maintaining lock of the
KSYN3a to the K3 Reference Oscillator.

73,
Eric
elecraft.com

On 4/22/2015 4:35 PM, Mark Bayern wrote:

> Check Elecraft's website for the latest mod. The frequency shift it
> describes might be what you're observing. The good news? There is an
> easy fix.
>
> From the application note:
>
> "The K3EXREF option allows the K3 to be closely locked to an external
> 10-MHz reference. Some K3 owners reported a pe"riodic frequency jump
> of up to 40 Hz on 2 meters (using the K3’s K144XV module with PLL lock
> option) when the K3EXREF board was added. We found that the K3EXREF
> was causing a shift in the 49.380-MHz reference oscillator frequency.
> This can be fixed with a simple modification to the KREF3 module.
>
> Mark AD5SS
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 2:47 PM, David Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I have the new SYNTHs installed, and all is working as it seems it
>> should. As soon as I installed the nnew Synthys, I saw a sawtooth
>> waveform when looking at very small frequency corrections. On the order
>> of about 1/4 HZ. steps, then a correction, then another 1/4 HZ step,
>> etc.
>>
>> If I were to get the frequency standard for the K3, will that reduce the
>> step size?
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

NK7Z

Re: New Synth Question...

Hi,

Thanks for the response Eric, is there a way to get around that?

It sounds like no matter what I feed as a reference, I may have that at
all times, as the synthesizer locks to whatever reference I use?

Is my assumption correct?

I ask because if getting the higher accuracy reference would help, I'll
get it.

--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Wed, 2015-04-22 at 16:44 -0700, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:

> I believe the small 1/4 Hz steps are a normal result of maintaining
> lock of the KSYN3a to the K3 Reference Oscillator.
>
> 73,
> Eric
> elecraft.com
>
>
> On 4/22/2015 4:35 PM, Mark Bayern wrote:
>
> > Check Elecraft's website for the latest mod. The frequency shift it
> > describes might be what you're observing. The good news? There is an
> > easy fix.
> >
> > From the application note:
> >
> > "The K3EXREF option allows the K3 to be closely locked to an external
> > 10-MHz reference. Some K3 owners reported a pe"riodic frequency jump
> > of up to 40 Hz on 2 meters (using the K3’s K144XV module with PLL lock
> > option) when the K3EXREF board was added. We found that the K3EXREF
> > was causing a shift in the 49.380-MHz reference oscillator frequency.
> > This can be fixed with a simple modification to the KREF3 module.
> >
> > Mark AD5SS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 2:47 PM, David Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I have the new SYNTHs installed, and all is working as it seems it
> > > should. As soon as I installed the nnew Synthys, I saw a sawtooth
> > > waveform when looking at very small frequency corrections. On the order
> > > of about 1/4 HZ. steps, then a correction, then another 1/4 HZ step,
> > > etc.
> > >
> > > If I were to get the frequency standard for the K3, will that reduce the
> > > step size?
> > >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: New Synth Question...

Administrator

Hi David,

This is fundamental to the operation of the KSYN3a, regardless of reference source.

73,

Eric
elecraft.com

On 4/23/2015 7:37 AM, David Cole wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the response Eric, is there a way to get around that?
>
> It sounds like no matter what I feed as a reference, I may have that at
> all times, as the synthesizer locks to whatever reference I use?
>
> Is my assumption correct?
>
> I ask because if getting the higher accuracy reference would help, I'll
> get it.
>

Robert .

Re: New Synth Question...

Eric, to ask the question differently:
when the ARRL FMT comes in Nov, want to change back to the original KSYN3
for that day -> will the K3 operate???

nk7z asks about more accurate, for FMT, important to be stable, repeatable
- using SpecLab a known error can be corrected out but has to be the same
error when measuring against known standard and doing the FMT.... (we're
splitting hz here, hi)

serious recommendation: next FMT do a K3 party, K3 owners enter & display
results. A K3 with SpecLab - new KSYN3 or old - on 40/80 should be within
one hz

on digital modes such as RTTY - when the KSYN3a new board makes correction
or "step change"
wonder how that affects the decoders
someone would have to test that in lab, same test done to test software
(like 2tone) old board then new board using same recording & decoder
settings....

73 Robert W5AJ
SMIEEE

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Eric
Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 7:41 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Synth Question...

Hi David,

This is fundamental to the operation of the KSYN3a, regardless of reference
source.

73,

Eric
elecraft.com

On 4/23/2015 7:37 AM, David Cole wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the response Eric, is there a way to get around that?
>
> It sounds like no matter what I feed as a reference, I may have that
> at all times, as the synthesizer locks to whatever reference I use?
>
> Is my assumption correct?
>
> I ask because if getting the higher accuracy reference would help,
> I'll get it.
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

NK7Z

Re: New Synth Question...

Hi Robert,

I suspect that the changes are too small to make any difference to
digital modes, even the really narrow bandwidth ones, like JT9.

The sawtooth I am seeing is on the order of 1/4 to 1/8 Hz. I would be
very interested to hear what one of the folks that do FMTs have to say
regarding this issue.

I suspect from other Emails I have gotten off list, that nothing will
make them go away, no matter what, even using an external GPS reference.

--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Thu, 2015-04-23 at 22:47 -0500, Robert Wood wrote:

> Eric, to ask the question differently:
> when the ARRL FMT comes in Nov, want to change back to the original KSYN3
> for that day -> will the K3 operate???
>
> nk7z asks about more accurate, for FMT, important to be stable, repeatable
> - using SpecLab a known error can be corrected out but has to be the same
> error when measuring against known standard and doing the FMT.... (we're
> splitting hz here, hi)
>
> serious recommendation: next FMT do a K3 party, K3 owners enter & display
> results. A K3 with SpecLab - new KSYN3 or old - on 40/80 should be within
> one hz
>
> on digital modes such as RTTY - when the KSYN3a new board makes correction
> or "step change"
> wonder how that affects the decoders
> someone would have to test that in lab, same test done to test software
> (like 2tone) old board then new board using same recording & decoder
> settings....
>
>
> 73 Robert W5AJ
> SMIEEE
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Eric
> Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 7:41 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Synth Question...
>
> Hi David,
>
> This is fundamental to the operation of the KSYN3a, regardless of reference
> source.
>
> 73,
>
> Eric
> elecraft.com
>
> On 4/23/2015 7:37 AM, David Cole wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thanks for the response Eric, is there a way to get around that?
> >
> > It sounds like no matter what I feed as a reference, I may have that
> > at all times, as the synthesizer locks to whatever reference I use?
> >
> > Is my assumption correct?
> >
> > I ask because if getting the higher accuracy reference would help,
> > I'll get it.
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>