New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

[Elecraft mailing list]

Hello,
I just set up my K3, KPA500, KAT500 and P3.  Couldn't get any audio out until I changed the mic setting of the front mic connection to high output and no bias.  CMP settings is 11, MIC gain is 9 and power on the K3 is set at 28watts...  It's now driving the amp up to around 500watts but I get NO readings on the CMP and ALC meters, none.  So I feel like I am missing something.  I'm using the Heil PR781 mic and need to make some EQ settings.  

If anyone can offer some suggestions I'd appreciate it.

Rob - AK7RM

Sent from my iPad
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Follow the manual for setting gain and compression plus look at Heil's
suggestions for the equalizer:
https://heilsound.com/heil-amateur-radio/support/dsp-settings/all-things-elecraft/

John KK9A

From: Rob Monsipapa
Sun Apr 9 22:34:08 EDT 2017

I just set up my K3, KPA500, KAT500 and P3.  Couldn't get any audio out
until I changed the mic setting of the front mic connection to high output
and no bias.  CMP settings is 11, MIC gain is 9 and power on the K3 is set
at 28watts...  It's now driving the amp up to around 500watts but I get NO
readings on the CMP and ALC meters, none.  So I feel like I am missing
something.  I'm using the Heil PR781 mic and need to make some EQ
settings.

If anyone can offer some suggestions I'd appreciate it.

Rob - AK7RM

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[Jim Brown-10]

  I strongly disagree with Heil's recommended settings.

I will repeat mine for contesting, DXing, and casual operation.

Three lowest bands maximum cut. Fourth band cut 6 dB. 3-6 dB boost of
top two bands.

Then get signal reports from a trained listener, who has his/her RX set
for wide IF bandwidth. Depending on your voice and the mic, that 4th
band may need more cut, and/or those top two bands may need more or less
boost.

AFTER EQ has been set, turn CMP down to zero and set mic gain per the
manual. THEN, with the display set to show Compression, increase CMP to
the point where you see about 10 dB of compression on voice peaks.

Why do I recommend the same settings for contesting, DX, and casual
operation? Because these settings increase talk power by nearly 13 dB,
equivalent to your 100W rig driving a 2kW amp, and your 10W radio like a
200W radio. That difference gets you 13 dB higher above QRM and noise,
and has the effect of minimizing the effects of QSB. For all those
reasons, it makes it easier for the other station to copy you, which
makes for a more pleasant QSO.

Why do I recommend so much bass cut? Because those low frequency sounds
amount to nearly half the total voice power but make no contribution to
speech intelligibility. They also include room noise, breath pops, and
mic handling noise. Getting rid of the lows nearly doubles talk power (3dB).

73, Jim K9YC

On Mon,4/10/2017 6:02 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Follow the manual for setting gain and compression plus look at Heil's
> suggestions for the equalizer:
> https://heilsound.com/heil-amateur-radio/support/dsp-settings/all-things-elecraft/


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[Peter Chamalian W1RM]

Jim, a few questions on your settings.

1.  Do you have a high, mid or low pitch voice?  Mine tends to be mid to
high.
2.  What mic are you using?  Have the Antlion condenser ModMike 4

Given these parameters, is there any changes you would suggest?  I realize I
have to test this myself and get some feedback on quality and punch but if
you had any thoughts I'd appreciate hearing them.

Thanks and 73,
Pete, W1RM

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 1:17 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

  I strongly disagree with Heil's recommended settings.

I will repeat mine for contesting, DXing, and casual operation.

Three lowest bands maximum cut. Fourth band cut 6 dB. 3-6 dB boost of top
two bands.

Then get signal reports from a trained listener, who has his/her RX set for
wide IF bandwidth. Depending on your voice and the mic, that 4th band may
need more cut, and/or those top two bands may need more or less boost.

AFTER EQ has been set, turn CMP down to zero and set mic gain per the
manual. THEN, with the display set to show Compression, increase CMP to the
point where you see about 10 dB of compression on voice peaks.

Why do I recommend the same settings for contesting, DX, and casual
operation? Because these settings increase talk power by nearly 13 dB,
equivalent to your 100W rig driving a 2kW amp, and your 10W radio like a
200W radio. That difference gets you 13 dB higher above QRM and noise, and
has the effect of minimizing the effects of QSB. For all those reasons, it
makes it easier for the other station to copy you, which makes for a more
pleasant QSO.

Why do I recommend so much bass cut? Because those low frequency sounds
amount to nearly half the total voice power but make no contribution to
speech intelligibility. They also include room noise, breath pops, and mic
handling noise. Getting rid of the lows nearly doubles talk power (3dB).

73, Jim K9YC

On Mon,4/10/2017 6:02 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Follow the manual for setting gain and compression plus look at Heil's
> suggestions for the equalizer:
> https://heilsound.com/heil-amateur-radio/support/dsp-settings/all-thin
> gs-elecraft/


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[donovanf]

Hi Pete,


Whats this all about?


Go back to your W8FYO, you'll like it a lot better!


73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "Peter Chamalian" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 8:50:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

Jim, a few questions on your settings.

1. Do you have a high, mid or low pitch voice? Mine tends to be mid to
high.
2. What mic are you using? Have the Antlion condenser ModMike 4

Given these parameters, is there any changes you would suggest? I realize I
have to test this myself and get some feedback on quality and punch but if
you had any thoughts I'd appreciate hearing them.

Thanks and 73,
Pete, W1RM

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 1:17 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New to Elecraft - help with audio settings

I strongly disagree with Heil's recommended settings.

I will repeat mine for contesting, DXing, and casual operation.

Three lowest bands maximum cut. Fourth band cut 6 dB. 3-6 dB boost of top
two bands.

Then get signal reports from a trained listener, who has his/her RX set for
wide IF bandwidth. Depending on your voice and the mic, that 4th band may
need more cut, and/or those top two bands may need more or less boost.

AFTER EQ has been set, turn CMP down to zero and set mic gain per the
manual. THEN, with the display set to show Compression, increase CMP to the
point where you see about 10 dB of compression on voice peaks.

Why do I recommend the same settings for contesting, DX, and casual
operation? Because these settings increase talk power by nearly 13 dB,
equivalent to your 100W rig driving a 2kW amp, and your 10W radio like a
200W radio. That difference gets you 13 dB higher above QRM and noise, and
has the effect of minimizing the effects of QSB. For all those reasons, it
makes it easier for the other station to copy you, which makes for a more
pleasant QSO.

Why do I recommend so much bass cut? Because those low frequency sounds
amount to nearly half the total voice power but make no contribution to
speech intelligibility. They also include room noise, breath pops, and mic
handling noise. Getting rid of the lows nearly doubles talk power (3dB).

73, Jim K9YC

On Mon,4/10/2017 6:02 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Follow the manual for setting gain and compression plus look at Heil's
> suggestions for the equalizer:
> https://heilsound.com/heil-amateur-radio/support/dsp-settings/all-thin 
> gs-elecraft/


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[Jim Brown-10]

On Mon,4/10/2017 1:50 PM, Peter Chamalian wrote:
> Jim, a few questions on your settings.
>
> 1.  Do you have a high, mid or low pitch voice?  Mine tends to be mid to
> high.

Relatively mid-range.

> 2.  What mic are you using?  Have the Antlion condenser ModMike 4

I'm using a Yamaha CM500 boom headset.

> Given these parameters, is there any changes you would suggest?

I had never heard of this product, so googled to find the website. The
description of this mic is in conflict with itself -- it first calls it
a "noise cancelling mic" but down the page calls "uni-directional."  
VERY different -- noise cancelling works on the basis of distance -- two
perfectly matched capsules, out of polarity, reject sound that isn't
within an inch or so of the mic. In general, they sound awful.
Unidirectional mics are ok but not great -- they suffer from proximity
effect, which strongly boosts low frequency sounds, wind, breath pop,  
and vibration (like handling noise).

I wouldn't change my advice, which says start here and get reports. And
that settings for that 4th band and the high boost will depend on your
voice and the mic. With this mic, you're more likely to want greater cut
of that 4th band.

> I realize I have to test this myself and get some feedback on quality and punch but if you had any thoughts I'd appreciate hearing them.

I'd be happy to run a sked with you to help you judge settings. On one
of those increasing rare days that we have decent prop between W6 and W1. :)

73, Jim K9YC

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[EUGENE GABRY]

----- Original Message -----

> "jim" <[hidden email]>

> I strongly disagree with Heil's recommended settings.


I agree with Jim about NOT using the Heil recommended settings. I use both the Heil Gold Elite (hold over from another rig), and the Yamaha CM500.
I use the exact same EQ settings for both mics. I use the Heil Gold Elite, set in the wide position for general rag chewing, and the CM500 for contesting and hunting DX.
EQ settings similar to Jim. 1, 2, and 3 -16, 4 = -3, 5 and 6 = 0, 7 = +12, and 8 = +9

Front Panel Mic H. (Heil) Mic gain 30, Compression 17. Gives me 5-6 bars ALC and 10DB of Compression. Not to punchy easy to listen to.
Rear Panel Mic L. Bias On (CM500), Mic gain 3, Compression 17, Gives me the same as above ALC and Comp. Crystal clear punchy audio.

I have Macros M3 and M4 programed to switch between the two mics.

The same EQ settings end up being a really nice match to both mics and serve the purpose for intentions.

73 Gene, N9TF
K3S 10057
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[Bob Nielsen-4]

Why would you use bias on the CM500?  I thought that it had a dynamic
microphone.

73,

Bob N7XY


On 4/10/17 7:15 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>> "jim" <[hidden email]>
>> I strongly disagree with Heil's recommended settings.
>
> I agree with Jim about NOT using the Heil recommended settings. I use both the Heil Gold Elite (hold over from another rig), and the Yamaha CM500.
> I use the exact same EQ settings for both mics. I use the Heil Gold Elite, set in the wide position for general rag chewing, and the CM500 for contesting and hunting DX.
> EQ settings similar to Jim. 1, 2, and 3 -16, 4 = -3, 5 and 6 = 0, 7 = +12, and 8 = +9
>
> Front Panel Mic H. (Heil) Mic gain 30, Compression 17. Gives me 5-6 bars ALC and 10DB of Compression. Not to punchy easy to listen to.
> Rear Panel Mic L. Bias On (CM500), Mic gain 3, Compression 17, Gives me the same as above ALC and Comp. Crystal clear punchy audio.
>
> I have Macros M3 and M4 programed to switch between the two mics.
>
> The same EQ settings end up being a really nice match to both mics and serve the purpose for intentions.
>
> 73 Gene, N9TF
> K3S 10057
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>

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[EUGENE GABRY]

Bob,

It's an Electric Mic and requires bias.

Gene

From: "Bob Nielsen" <[hidden email]>

Why would you use bias on the CM500? I thought that it had a dynamic
microphone.

73,

Bob N7XY


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[Jim Brown-10]

On Mon,4/10/2017 7:45 PM, Bob Nielsen wrote:
> Why would you use bias on the CM500?  I thought that it had a dynamic
> microphone.

No, it's an electret. An early version of the advertising blurb (written
by guess who, a salesman) incorrectly said that it was a dynamic, so
you're not imagining things. :)

73, Jim K9YC
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[Mike VE3YF]

Rob:

FWIW, I use a Heil PR-40 which is pretty much the same as the PR-781 and
I have the following set:

Mic-014
Comp-018

Mic lvl set to high (Not Low as Heil Suggests)

1. -14
2. -14
3. -14
4. -03
5. +04
6. +05
7. +07
8. +08

I have had good reports. I could probably fine tune 4-8 on the EQ but as
suggested the first 3 anywhere - 14 to -16. A lot depends on your voice
but I think with all the assistance here on the forum you should get
good reports.
--

*73 De Mike*
*VE3YF

_/http://www.ve3yf.com/_*

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[Mike VE3YF]

Rob:

Sorry about that, I was using an old chart, 1,2,3 are at -16,the rest is
the same. Too many charts and notes around here....

*73 De Mike*
*VE3YF

_/http://www.ve3yf.com/_*

On 23-Apr-17 21:16, Mike VE3YF wrote:

> Rob:
>
> FWIW, I use a Heil PR-40 which is pretty much the same as the PR-781
> and I have the following set:
>
> Mic-014
> Comp-018
>
> Mic lvl set to high (Not Low as Heil Suggests)
>
> 1. -14
> 2. -14
> 3. -14
> 4. -03
> 5. +04
> 6. +05
> 7. +07
> 8. +08
>
> I have had good reports. I could probably fine tune 4-8 on the EQ but
> as suggested the first 3 anywhere - 14 to -16. A lot depends on your
> voice but I think with all the assistance here on the forum you should
> get good reports.
> --
>
> *73 De Mike*
> *VE3YF
>
> _/http://www.ve3yf.com/_*
>

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