Elecraft

Noise, RFI ?

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Bill-3

Re: Noise, RFI ?

My experience in Virginia and in New York was excellent with the power
companies. Their "quality control section" had a couple of hams as team
members - meaning we all spoke the same language. It might pay to ask if
any team members are hams. Utility companies are loath to electricity
loss, generally meaning they are helpful with problems they can correct
- they cannot correct all problems.

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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k6dgw

Re: Noise, RFI ?

In reply to this post by N5GE

On 2/19/2014 3:57 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote:

> I then asked him if he was experiencing interference from my radio
> transmitter, to which he replied no.
>
> Problem solved.

Ummm ... and how? This is the conundrum [or maybe fallacy] in Part 15.
Unsuspecting and un-knowledgable consumers buy a product that they
expect to work. It appears to do so. The idea that they are now
responsible for mitigating interference from the product they bought in
good faith is beyond stupid. The real responsibility was with the
manufacturer and/or seller. Unfortunately, now days all they have to do
is put a little sticker on the back of the device which no consumer will
see, let alone understand, and they're home free.

My neighbors with the PTV are very busy, gone a lot, and while he
understands what his TV does to my reception, I acknowledge his right to
have that TV. It isn't on very often, a solution for me. He even asks
me over the back fence if there's a big contest coming up, they have
occasionally just chilled and read on their Kindles. I'm lucky, and
good friends with our neighbors. We're going to keep it that way.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org

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g8kbvdave

Re: Noise, RFI ?

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

"PLT/PLA" and something (Smart TV?) using it to do an update?

http://www.ban-plt.org.uk/what.php What it is
http://www.ban-plt.org.uk/tests.php Some EMC test results. Graphic!

Lots of other good info on that site.

No affiliation whatosever.

73.

Dave G0WBX.

------- Original Message -------
From: Phil Hystad <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] Noise, RFI ?

Using my K3 I was trying to pick up a ZL2 station (New Zealand) around 18.08
MHz this morning (about 9:50 AM PST) when this huge noise blanketed everything
out. It was about 30/9 and absolutely solid across the spectrum shown on the
P3. Using my KPA500, I switched to the 20 meter band -- same noise, same
level, same broadband impact.

I determined that the noise was from roughly 1400 KHz all the way up to 28.05
MHz. All about 30/9. About the time that I finished checking this full MF/HF
spectrum of noise it switched off.

Then, it switched on, and stayed on for about 5 seconds, then off again. I
turned on my Icom R75. The next time the noise came on I checked it with the
R75 and the same noise, same 30/9 level, same broad across the bands.

Obviously man-made or under man control as it switched on and off and was on
for various periods of time. This noise seems to be close, like generated in
the neighborhood someplace.

Anyone have ideas of the cause. You noise experts (Jim?) should have ideas. I
was thinking maybe an arc welding machine but that is just a wild guess. It
sure seems to be something that can be switched on and off. It is not periodic
in that the on/off switching is at varying intervals. The longest on period is
about one minute, the shortest on period about 2 seconds. And, it has been
quiet for the last 10 minutes or so.

Thanks for your help.

73, phil, K7PEH

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Noise, RFI ?

In reply to this post by k6dgw

On 2/19/2014 7:48 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> My neighbors with the PTV are very busy, gone a lot, and while he
> understands what his TV does to my reception, I acknowledge his right
> to have that TV.

He has a right to HAVE it, but not to cause interference to you when he
turns it on.

Yes, Part 15, combined with the current state of FCC funding is a
conundrum. The FCC has Rules, but not the staff to enforce them. Last
night, I heard the FCC District Chief of the San Francisco office speak
to a local ARES group about "inspections." His advice in response to
questions about resolving noise of the sort all of us are experiencing
was next to useless. One of the most illuminating statements was "off
script," in response to a question. "Are you doing a lot more
inspections now than 27 years ago when you started working for the
FCC?" No, he replied, far fewer. When he started there were 400 field
inspectors nationwide. Now there are 100. Thank you, small government.

As a direct response to Phil's question, I'd look for a motor in some
appliance that runs for a period and stops. I sleep with headphones
listening to the radio. My XYL often arises earlier than I do, and when
she does, I hear our coffee grinder making coffee.

73, Jim K9YC
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Phil Hystad-3

Re: Noise, RFI ?

Jim (and others)...

From all the suggestions of the RFI, these are those that rank on the top of the list but the list below is not ordered in any way.

1. Some tool or machine operated by a neighbor or maybe even a construction/contractor guy working at a neighbor's house (really fits the use pattern of this interference). Such ideas include electric arc welder.

2. Nearby large Hospital & Medical center with the typical surrounding medical offices including several imaging offices. The fact that I have never heard this interference before discounts this in my opinion.

3. HV power line arc'ing or interference of some sort (there are HV towers and power lines about 500 yards from my QTH although never have I had any interference from them that I know of.

This RFI lasted for about 10 or 11 minutes and it has never repeated. During that 10 or 11 minutes it demonstrated a very much turned on and then turned off behavior with differing intervals.

I am certain it was not in my house as I was the only one home at the time and everything in the house was turned off except for my own den/radio-shack/mancave/office where I was listening for weak DX in the CW zone of lower part of 10 meters.

Even though I am in a suburban location, I am blessed with virtually no RFI. It occurs rarely but never long term (meaning more than a few hours at most). I did have RFI regularly from wall warts and a few other electronic gadgets but I have since (years ago) gotten rid of those. As far as I know, there are no known noisy plasma TVs in the area. A neighbor once asked what kind of HDTV to get and I told him specifically: Samsung LED and stay away from Plasma TVs. I own a Samsung LED. I do have one noise generator which is only a problem when my wife uses it -- that is our treadmill. When I am using it though, the noise is not a problem (at least not a problem to me).

In the years I have been here and operating, I have only caused two incidents of RFI into next-door neighbor's equipment. Next door neighbors phones (years ago) and I put filters on the their phone lines and that fixed their problem. And, my other next door neighbor I have gotten into the speakers once when operating KW+ and CW on 20 meters (which is very rare for me). I don't operate at more than 500 watts at most these days and even that is rare. Haven't heard him complain in a number of years.

K3/P3 currently sitting on 14.012 MHz and it is very quiet -- a few CW stations but the background noise level is very quiet this morning.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Feb 20, 2014, at 9:05 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2/19/2014 7:48 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>> My neighbors with the PTV are very busy, gone a lot, and while he understands what his TV does to my reception, I acknowledge his right to have that TV.
>
> He has a right to HAVE it, but not to cause interference to you when he turns it on.
>
> Yes, Part 15, combined with the current state of FCC funding is a conundrum. The FCC has Rules, but not the staff to enforce them. Last night, I heard the FCC District Chief of the San Francisco office speak to a local ARES group about "inspections." His advice in response to questions about resolving noise of the sort all of us are experiencing was next to useless. One of the most illuminating statements was "off script," in response to a question. "Are you doing a lot more inspections now than 27 years ago when you started working for the FCC?" No, he replied, far fewer. When he started there were 400 field inspectors nationwide. Now there are 100. Thank you, small government.
>
> As a direct response to Phil's question, I'd look for a motor in some appliance that runs for a period and stops. I sleep with headphones listening to the radio. My XYL often arises earlier than I do, and when she does, I hear our coffee grinder making coffee.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: Noise, RFI ?

Drat, you left out

4. Old-time Luddite ham operating a rotary spark
gap rig :-)

73, Phil w7ox (No, I'm not *that* old -- quite!)

On 2/20/14, 10:25 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:

> Jim (and others)...
>
> >From all the suggestions of the RFI, these are those that rank on the top of the list but the list below is not ordered in any way.
>
> 1. Some tool or machine operated by a neighbor or maybe even a construction/contractor guy working at a neighbor's house (really fits the use pattern of this interference). Such ideas include electric arc welder.
>
> 2. Nearby large Hospital & Medical center with the typical surrounding medical offices including several imaging offices. The fact that I have never heard this interference before discounts this in my opinion.
>
> 3. HV power line arc'ing or interference of some sort (there are HV towers and power lines about 500 yards from my QTH although never have I had any interference from them that I know of.
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>