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OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets

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Clay Autery-2

Re: OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets

Yes sir... I'm sure it is... but one simply cannot make absolute
statements like the article (and OP) did without addressing REALITY.
See my response to Vic... I answered in detail.

PS - I don't believe I have EVER seen an auto that powers all the car
systems WHILE the key is in Start position (and thus engaging the
starter relay, solenoid, and starter).
NEVER seen an auto made in the last 30 years or so with a SINGLE return
path to Batt (-). If there is, I wouldn't own/use it until I fixed the
egregious engineering error. <smile>

73,

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/27/2017 11:09 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Clay, I believe it has to do with danger to your equipment should the
> connection between the battery and the chassis open. In that case all the
> current to all the automobile systems, from starter to lights to ignition,
> radio, etc., would flow through the ground path provided by the radio if it
> is connected directly to the negative battery terminal. Since that can be
> 100's of amperes when starting the engine, no radio is likely to survive.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Clay Autery
> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 8:21 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets
>
> Horse puckey! I DEFY you to prove the physics OR math of that ridiculous
> statement.
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KY5G
>
> On 6/27/2017 9:55 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> WARNING!
>>
>>
>> For extremely important safety and fire prevention reasons reasons, no
>> accessory should ever be connected directly to the negative terminal
>> of an automotive battery . Just like when charging an automotive
>> battery, the negative lead of a cable running directly to the battery
>> should always connect to the engine block and never directly to the
>> battery.
>>
>>
>> The positive lead must be fused where it connects to the battery.
>>
>>
>> There's an excellent discussion here:
>>
>> https://www.w8ji.com/negative_lead_to_battery.htm
>>
>>
>> 73
>> Frank
>> W3LPL

Don Wilhelm

Re: OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets

In reply to this post by donovanf

Yes,

The negative wire should be connected to the place where the negative
battery wire is bonded to the chassis or body of the vehicle - and not
directly to the battery. You should also fuse it.

Advice to do otherwise applies only to ancient vehicles, and you can
conclude that the material is superseded by information about modern
vehicles.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/27/2017 12:22 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Here's an excellent article on how to safely install accessory wiring
> in a vehicle without creating a deadly fire hazard:
>
>
> http://www.k0bg.com/wiring.html
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>

Clay Autery-2

Re: OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets

In reply to this post by donovanf

See my detailed response... Original article is RIDDLED with inaccuracy
and fantasy scenarios that simply are not part of modern automotive
electrical engineering.

You build your stuff any way you want it... I'll do the same...

I understand that you relied upon the article and the author as a basis
for making your OP.... doesn't make it any less inaccurate.

You simply CANNOT make absolute statements like that without AT LEAST
qualifying the EXCEPTIONS to the "God says..." absolute. <grin>

73... Apologize if my initial reaction torqued you off. Been spark
chasing all my life from race cars to helicopters... Certain hot
buttons set me off.... this is one of them.

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/27/2017 11:11 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Most of can evaluate Clay's comment with no need for further input by me
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Clay Autery" <[hidden email]>
> *To: *[hidden email]
> *Sent: *Tuesday, June 27, 2017 3:21:11 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [Elecraft] OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets
>
> Horse puckey! I DEFY you to prove the physics OR math of that
> ridiculous statement.
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KY5G
>
> On 6/27/2017 9:55 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > WARNING!
> >
> >
> > For extremely important safety and fire prevention reasons reasons,
> > no accessory should ever be connected directly to the negative
> > terminal of an automotive battery . Just like when charging an
> > automotive battery, the negative lead of a cable running directly
> > to the battery should always connect to the engine block and never
> > directly to the battery.
> >
> >
> > The positive lead must be fused where it connects to the battery.
> >
> >
> > There's an excellent discussion here:
> >
> > https://www.w8ji.com/negative_lead_to_battery.htm
> >
> >
> > 73
> > Frank
> > W3LPL
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: [hidden email]
> > To: [hidden email], "erw edl" <[hidden email]>, "Craig
> LaBarge" <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 1:14:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets
> >
> > Gene and others,
> >
> > If you look in the owner's manual you will notice that Chevy has
> already provided this. You need to look in the up-fitters section,
> which can be downloaded from the Chevy website. You will find the
> wiring diagram of the truck there. The accessory outlets are wired
> with 18 or 16AWG wire and NOT recommended for anything that draws
> large current above about 10 amps intermittent.
> >
> > There are two ways to get the power you need into the cab. One is
> provided as a feed-thru from the under-hood fuse panel in the
> accessory wiring block in the cab above the parking brake pedal. It is
> a black covered block. All you need is to buy the connector and pins
> from the dealer or an up-fitter and put in the proper fuse. If you
> prefer as I did to run your own, you have plenty of room in the wiring
> grommet just above the box to add at least 2 10AWG wires which you can
> run to the battery. Add an inline fuse and attach to the battery
> accessory connector already on the battery using the appropriate
> hardware. Bring the wire through the grommet and under the carpet to
> the seat, where the carpet is split to be able to get it to the center
> console (if desired) or down the channel to the rear of the truck as
> desired. I mounted my radio (id880) in the tissue compartment (its is
> 8x10" opening or a little larger) in the back of the console; head in
> front of the cup holders and ant
> en
> >
> > na on the roof where it belongs.
> >
> > Enjoy your install.
> >
> > Phil, WD8QWR
> >
> >
> > ---- Craig LaBarge <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Gene:
> >>
> >> I have a 2017 Silverado 1500 double-cab. The 12V outlet on the
> dashboard
> >> is on all the time. There's one inside the center console and one
> on the
> >> rear of the console (for rear passengers) that are switched.
> >>
> >> I don't know what the current ratings are but I use the one in the
> rear to
> >> power my Yaesu FT-8800 dual-band rig at full power (50W on 2M) with no
> >> issues. I occasionally use the one on the dash to power an APRS
> tracker (8
> >> watts).
> >>
> >> I haven't used an HF rig with the power outlets but on VHF/UHF I
> have no
> >> detectable noise. Again, I don't know if that would be the case at HF.
> >>
> >> Hope this helps.
> >>
> >> 73, Craig WB3GCK
> >> http://wb3gck.craiglabarge.com/
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
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> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
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Clay Autery-2

Re: OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

For some reason, the following detailed response did not "reflect"...
Resending...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

1) There is NO GROUND in an automobile. There is a return plane that
effectively ACTS as a ground.... if you choose to look at it that way.
2) The "Negative" terminal of the battery IS the return point... The
theoretical point of lowest potential... (not really, but that's a
whole other discussion that would just confuse the issue here).
3) EVERY other so-called "ground" in the ENTIRE system is an
APPROXIMATION of THE return at the Batt (-) post.
4) I don't "suppose" anything in my circuit design.... TWO
hypotheticals? BUT...
5) Yes, we'll assume hypothetical #1.... I am ABSOLUTELY going to
connect my HF radio, along with my also very expensive stereo DIRECTLY
to the battery via BOTH BATT (+) and BATT (-) using VERY large
conductors in order to keep the resistance as low as possible.
6) Hypothetical #2 is simply laughable... ANY system that has only ONE
low resistance return path to BATT (-). Even the STOCK electrical
design had more than one "ground" path back to BATT (-).... In fact,
there were returns from every major metal structure in the truck...
Front clip, LH frame, RH frame, engine, cab, middle frame, bed, rear
frame left and right, receiver and several other smaller/minor ones
dedicated to specific purposes... aka: ECU has it's own ground, et al.
7) Any engineer worth his salt plans for failures... I increased the
size and rerouted returns more efficiently to cause the return
resistance to BATT (-) to be approximately the same from ALL points in
the truck (rear frame grounds have not yet been replaced, but are
spec'd. Average resistance from any return tie to frame/body panel, etc.
is LESS than 1 Ohm.... a lot less.... like 0.2 Ohms.
8) Assuming I was ignorant enough to ONLY have a single engine return
to BATT (-) for instance... The current would find returns via the
motor mount to frame bond which would be still less than 1 Ohm. Same
with starter solenoid and/or starter relay...
9) Additionally, the direct cabling from the battery to the in-cab
distro point is FUSED on BOTH the BATT (+) and BATT (-) with fast blow
fuses range selected to open BEFORE catastrophic current spikes can hit
the accessories.

And finally.... As a properly trained aviator, I don't crank my vehicle
with direct connected accessories on... That's simply poor operator
procedure. Even the original factory circuit interrupted the circuit to
the factory stereo when the key was in the START position.

FACT: There is no electrical difference between a 0.2 Ohm return path
DIRECTLY to the battery than there is a 0.2 Ohm return path that runs
from the accessory to frame or engine ground point and THEN to Batt (-).

Take-away: Design your return plane such that you 1) incorporate EVERY
appreciable piece of metal in the vehicle... frame, engine, body panels,
suspension, etc. AND design it such that all returns are redundant and
have approximately the same resistance in the path to Batt (-).

Poor design/engineering, exceedingly poor maintenance, poor operator
training lead the list of stupid things one can do if you are TRYING to
create a potential damage situation... But generally, it takes a
failure in TWO of the three domains to realize any damage.

I think the smallest return wire I have in my truck carrying more than 1
amp is 4 AWG.

Bottom Line: understand DC... don't do stupid stuff. :)

73, Vic.... this was mostly in response to the original post and the
false absolutes stated in the article.... If we allowed articles like
that to guide our science, we would never have gone to space because we
can't jump into orbit using human leg power... <grin>

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/27/2017 10:52 AM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:

> I don't think math or difficult physics is needed. Suppose you connect the radio directly to battery, and then suppose the battery to ground cable becomes partially or completely disconnected. Finally, suppose you then try to start the engine. When the starter solenoid closes, some of the high current from the battery negative terminal flows through the negative lead to the radio, and then to ground through the radio's mounting bracket, the coax to the antenna, etc. The no. 10 ground wire might have to carry several hundred amps! Lots of things can be damaged.
> This is why negative leads should be fused, at least.
>
> Vic 4X6GP
>
>> On 27 Jun 2017, at 18:21, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Horse puckey! I DEFY you to prove the physics OR math of that
>> ridiculous statement.
>>
>> ______________________
>> Clay Autery, KY5G
>>
>>> On 6/27/2017 9:55 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> WARNING!
>>>
>>>
>>> For extremely important safety and fire prevention reasons reasons,
>>> no accessory should ever be connected directly to the negative
>>> terminal of an automotive battery . Just like when charging an
>>> automotive battery, the negative lead of a cable running directly
>>> to the battery should always connect to the engine block and never
>>> directly to the battery.
>>>
>>>
>>> The positive lead must be fused where it connects to the battery.
>>>
>>>
>>> There's an excellent discussion here:
>>>
>>> https://www.w8ji.com/negative_lead_to_battery.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Frank
>>> W3LPL
>>>

Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

I have to ask, has ANYONE ever heard of a circumstance where the negative
return lead from the battery to the engine block has ever failed, short of a
battlefield situation?
Still, probably a good idea to fuse the negative to radio wire anyway.

Charlie k3ICH

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Vic Rosenthal
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 11:52 AM
To: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets

I don't think math or difficult physics is needed. Suppose you connect the
radio directly to battery, and then suppose the battery to ground cable
becomes partially or completely disconnected. Finally, suppose you then try
to start the engine. When the starter solenoid closes, some of the high
current from the battery negative terminal flows through the negative lead
to the radio, and then to ground through the radio's mounting bracket, the
coax to the antenna, etc. The no. 10 ground wire might have to carry several
hundred amps! Lots of things can be damaged.
This is why negative leads should be fused, at least.

Vic 4X6GP

> On 27 Jun 2017, at 18:21, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Horse puckey! I DEFY you to prove the physics OR math of that
> ridiculous statement.
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KY5G
>
>> On 6/27/2017 9:55 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> WARNING!
>>
>>
>> For extremely important safety and fire prevention reasons reasons,
>> no accessory should ever be connected directly to the negative
>> terminal of an automotive battery . Just like when charging an
>> automotive battery, the negative lead of a cable running directly to
>> the battery should always connect to the engine block and never
>> directly to the battery.
>>
>>
>> The positive lead must be fused where it connects to the battery.
>>
>>
>> There's an excellent discussion here:
>>
>> https://www.w8ji.com/negative_lead_to_battery.htm
>>
>>
>> 73
>> Frank
>> W3LPL
>>

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Alan Bloom

Re: OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets

I once had the connection to the battery on my old VW bug fail due to
corrosion around the battery contacts. I don't remember if it was the
positive or negative lead.

I believe modern autos often have a current sensor in the negative
battery lead. So you are supposed to connect the radio negative lead to
the chassis side of the sensor. And if you connect it to any part of
the negative battery lead you should fuse it in case the battery chassis
connection goes bad for any reason.

Alan N1AL

On 06/27/2017 12:42 PM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:

> I have to ask, has ANYONE ever heard of a circumstance where the negative
> return lead from the battery to the engine block has ever failed, short of a
> battlefield situation?
> Still, probably a good idea to fuse the negative to radio wire anyway.
>
> Charlie k3ICH
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Vic Rosenthal
> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 11:52 AM
> To: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets
>
> I don't think math or difficult physics is needed. Suppose you connect the
> radio directly to battery, and then suppose the battery to ground cable
> becomes partially or completely disconnected. Finally, suppose you then try
> to start the engine. When the starter solenoid closes, some of the high
> current from the battery negative terminal flows through the negative lead
> to the radio, and then to ground through the radio's mounting bracket, the
> coax to the antenna, etc. The no. 10 ground wire might have to carry several
> hundred amps! Lots of things can be damaged.
> This is why negative leads should be fused, at least.
>
> Vic 4X6GP
>
>> On 27 Jun 2017, at 18:21, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Horse puckey! I DEFY you to prove the physics OR math of that
>> ridiculous statement.
>>
>> ______________________
>> Clay Autery, KY5G
>>
>>> On 6/27/2017 9:55 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> WARNING!
>>>
>>>
>>> For extremely important safety and fire prevention reasons reasons,
>>> no accessory should ever be connected directly to the negative
>>> terminal of an automotive battery . Just like when charging an
>>> automotive battery, the negative lead of a cable running directly to
>>> the battery should always connect to the engine block and never
>>> directly to the battery.
>>>
>>>
>>> The positive lead must be fused where it connects to the battery.
>>>
>>>
>>> There's an excellent discussion here:
>>>
>>> https://www.w8ji.com/negative_lead_to_battery.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Frank
>>> W3LPL
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

Yes! Seems the customer put a very large ring terminal on his radio ground wire. Then removed the battery cable at the battery, slipped the ring terminal over the negative post and then put the battery negative cable back in place. All was well until he took the car in for service. As procedure, the technician removed the negative battery cable from the battery. Then somewhere along the way he shorted the positive to chassis. The radio and radio ground wire went up in smoke. Dang near lost the car too.

Of course one would say the technician was remiss in that he didn't see the added ground wire and didn't remove it.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Charlie T, K3ICH <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have to ask, has ANYONE ever heard of a circumstance where the negative
> return lead from the battery to the engine block has ever failed, short of a
> battlefield situation?
> Still, probably a good idea to fuse the negative to radio wire anyway.
>
> Charlie k3ICH
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Vic Rosenthal
> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 11:52 AM
> To: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets
>
> I don't think math or difficult physics is needed. Suppose you connect the
> radio directly to battery, and then suppose the battery to ground cable
> becomes partially or completely disconnected. Finally, suppose you then try
> to start the engine. When the starter solenoid closes, some of the high
> current from the battery negative terminal flows through the negative lead
> to the radio, and then to ground through the radio's mounting bracket, the
> coax to the antenna, etc. The no. 10 ground wire might have to carry several
> hundred amps! Lots of things can be damaged.
> This is why negative leads should be fused, at least.
>
> Vic 4X6GP
>
>> On 27 Jun 2017, at 18:21, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Horse puckey! I DEFY you to prove the physics OR math of that
>> ridiculous statement.
>>
>> ______________________
>> Clay Autery, KY5G
>>
>>> On 6/27/2017 9:55 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> WARNING!
>>>
>>>
>>> For extremely important safety and fire prevention reasons reasons,
>>> no accessory should ever be connected directly to the negative
>>> terminal of an automotive battery . Just like when charging an
>>> automotive battery, the negative lead of a cable running directly to
>>> the battery should always connect to the engine block and never
>>> directly to the battery.
>>>
>>>
>>> The positive lead must be fused where it connects to the battery.
>>>
>>>
>>> There's an excellent discussion here:
>>>
>>> https://www.w8ji.com/negative_lead_to_battery.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Frank
>>> W3LPL
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>

Hisashi T Fujinaka

Re: OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

Yes. Rental car in Mexico, bumpy roads, and no strap to hold the battery
in place. Just heard it yesterday.

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:

--
Hisashi T Fujinaka - [hidden email]
BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets

Administrator

Thread closed.

Guys, we are getting way out of hand on huge OT threads. Please keep them to 5 posts, AT MOST, or we will be forced to tighten down the list to Elecraft
product related topics only. That would be a shame..

Also, delete all copied text including the list footers, except possibly 1-2 sentences for context, from prior email in your replies.

73,
Eric
Elecraft List Moderator etc.
elecraft.com
_..._

> On Jun 27, 2017, at 10:09 PM, Hisashi T Fujinaka <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Yes. Rental car in Mexico, bumpy roads, and no strap to hold the battery
> in place. Just heard it yesterday.
>
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets

Administrator

In reply to this post by Hisashi T Fujinaka

Done! :-)

73,

Eric
elecraft.com
_..._

> On Jun 27, 2017, at 10:09 PM, Hisashi T Fujinaka <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Yes. Rental car in Mexico, bumpy roads, and no strap to hold the battery
> in place. Just heard it yesterday.
>
>> On Tue, 27 Jun 2017, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:
>>
>> I have to ask, has ANYONE ever heard of a circumstance where the negative
>> return lead from the battery to the engine block has ever failed, short of a
>> battlefield situation?
>> Still, probably a good idea to fuse the negative to radio wire anyway.
>>
>> Charlie k3ICH
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Vic Rosenthal
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 11:52 AM
>> To: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets
>>
>> I don't think math or difficult physics is needed. Suppose you connect the
>> radio directly to battery, and then suppose the battery to ground cable
>> becomes partially or completely disconnected. Finally, suppose you then try
>> to start the engine. When the starter solenoid closes, some of the high
>> current from the battery negative terminal flows through the negative lead
>> to the radio, and then to ground through the radio's mounting bracket, the
>> coax to the antenna, etc. The no. 10 ground wire might have to carry several
>> hundred amps! Lots of things can be damaged.
>> This is why negative leads should be fused, at least.
>>
>> Vic 4X6GP
>>
>>> On 27 Jun 2017, at 18:21, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Horse puckey! I DEFY you to prove the physics OR math of that
>>> ridiculous statement.
>>>
>>> ______________________
>>> Clay Autery, KY5G
>>>
>>>> On 6/27/2017 9:55 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>> WARNING!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For extremely important safety and fire prevention reasons reasons,
>>>> no accessory should ever be connected directly to the negative
>>>> terminal of an automotive battery . Just like when charging an
>>>> automotive battery, the negative lead of a cable running directly to
>>>> the battery should always connect to the engine block and never
>>>> directly to the battery.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The positive lead must be fused where it connects to the battery.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's an excellent discussion here:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.w8ji.com/negative_lead_to_battery.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 73
>>>> Frank
>>>> W3LPL
>>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
> --
> Hisashi T Fujinaka - [hidden email]
> BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee
> ______________________________________________________________
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Vic Rosenthal

Re: OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

The most likely situation is that you disconnect it for some reason (replacing the starter when the cable goes to one of the bolts that hold it, etc.) and then forget to hook it up. Or, in an older vehicle, corrosion where the wire meets the lug.

Vic 4X6GP

> On 27 Jun 2017, at 22:42, Charlie T, K3ICH <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have to ask, has ANYONE ever heard of a circumstance where the negative
> return lead from the battery to the engine block has ever failed, short of a
> battlefield situation?
> Still, probably a good idea to fuse the negative to radio wire anyway.
>
> Charlie k3ICH
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Vic Rosenthal
> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 11:52 AM
> To: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 power outlets
>
> I don't think math or difficult physics is needed. Suppose you connect the
> radio directly to battery, and then suppose the battery to ground cable
> becomes partially or completely disconnected. Finally, suppose you then try
> to start the engine. When the starter solenoid closes, some of the high
> current from the battery negative terminal flows through the negative lead
> to the radio, and then to ground through the radio's mounting bracket, the
> coax to the antenna, etc. The no. 10 ground wire might have to carry several
> hundred amps! Lots of things can be damaged.
> This is why negative leads should be fused, at least.
>
> Vic 4X6GP
>
>> On 27 Jun 2017, at 18:21, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Horse puckey! I DEFY you to prove the physics OR math of that
>> ridiculous statement.
>>
>> ______________________
>> Clay Autery, KY5G
>>
>>> On 6/27/2017 9:55 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> WARNING!
>>>
>>>
>>> For extremely important safety and fire prevention reasons reasons,
>>> no accessory should ever be connected directly to the negative
>>> terminal of an automotive battery . Just like when charging an
>>> automotive battery, the negative lead of a cable running directly to
>>> the battery should always connect to the engine block and never
>>> directly to the battery.
>>>
>>>
>>> The positive lead must be fused where it connects to the battery.
>>>
>>>
>>> There's an excellent discussion here:
>>>
>>> https://www.w8ji.com/negative_lead_to_battery.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Frank
>>> W3LPL
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]