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[OT] Fires

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alorona

[OT] Fires

So I read not only K6XX's report, but the entire issue of the Jug. http://nccc.cc/jug/2020/09sep2020.pdf . I am completely floored by the complete destruction of Bob's place. Bob, I don't know if you're a believer, but I for one am praying for strength for you, my friend.

My impression of the Bobcat fire here in Los Angeles, which got to within 2 miles from me and is still burning 38 days later, is similar to Bob's: fire agencies simply let it burn for days without any urgency whatsoever, letting it advance into backyards in the northernmost reaches of Arcadia and Monrovia before kicking into firefighting high gear at the last possible second. In strangely similar fashion, the news media never really reported with any energy on the Bobcat fire. I still can't understand the almost total ignoring of this fire for so long. So I resonated with Bob on this point, and for this reason I refute W6GJB's claim that resources assigned to southern California deprived northern California of the same. It seems that *nobody* had the resources they needed. What a shame.

Hang in there, Bob. Please let us know if you've started a gofundme page or something like that.

Al W6LX

>Bob, K6XX, suffered a total loss of his mountaintop home and QTH
>in the August 2020 SCU Complex fire. He writes about it in great detail
>for the NCCC September 2020 Jug, reflecting on his fire-safe preparation,
>how opportunities were missed to use those resources to save his property,
>and the rebuilding process he now faces.
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Dave wo2x

Re: [OT] Fires

I know I was asked by FEMA to head west to help as a COM-T. Unfortunately I am now disabled from a very rare infection that resulted in severe cardiac and pulmonary issues or I would have gone.

There are firefighters fron here in NJ and nearby states that have gone out and some are there now. Resources from around the country have gone to assist.

Hopefully the fall will bring much needed rain to the west coast. In NJ we are about 7 inches behind on annual rainfall but just had a drencher the last couple of days with more coming Friday.

My thoughts and prayers go out to those affected by the wildfires and hurricanes.

2020 has been a CRAZY year!

Dave wo2x

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 14, 2020, at 4:54 PM, Al Lorona <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> So I read not only K6XX's report, but the entire issue of the Jug. http://nccc.cc/jug/2020/09sep2020.pdf . I am completely floored by the complete destruction of Bob's place. Bob, I don't know if you're a believer, but I for one am praying for strength for you, my friend.
>
> My impression of the Bobcat fire here in Los Angeles, which got to within 2 miles from me and is still burning 38 days later, is similar to Bob's: fire agencies simply let it burn for days without any urgency whatsoever, letting it advance into backyards in the northernmost reaches of Arcadia and Monrovia before kicking into firefighting high gear at the last possible second. In strangely similar fashion, the news media never really reported with any energy on the Bobcat fire. I still can't understand the almost total ignoring of this fire for so long. So I resonated with Bob on this point, and for this reason I refute W6GJB's claim that resources assigned to southern California deprived northern California of the same. It seems that *nobody* had the resources they needed. What a shame.
>
> Hang in there, Bob. Please let us know if you've started a gofundme page or something like that.
>
> Al W6LX
>
>
>> Bob, K6XX, suffered a total loss of his mountaintop home and QTH
>> in the August 2020 SCU Complex fire. He writes about it in great detail
>> for the NCCC September 2020 Jug, reflecting on his fire-safe preparation,
>> how opportunities were missed to use those resources to save his property,
>> and the rebuilding process he now faces.
> ______________________________________________________________
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Rick Bates, NK7I

Re: [OT] Fires

In reply to this post by alorona

The simplest answer is when an area has numerous fires consuming homes, acres and a few lives in excess of the ‘norm’; there will never be enough resources available in a timely manner.

Every fire, regardless of which agency is responsible (Fed, state, local) is noted and prioritized And addressed, leaving some reserves for the more mundane events (90% medical aid, wrecks etc) and a smaller amount to apply as it hits the fan; including help from other states and countries (while protecting everyone from COVID as best as possible). Herculean effort is a gross understatement this year.

CA has exceeded the 4 million acre threshold (30+ dead); a record that no one wants... with another month (or more) of fire season to go (in the north, the south never closes).

Prayers for all the impacted; the level of destruction is beyond traumatic.

Rick NK7I

Email spiel Czech corruptions happen

> On Oct 14, 2020, at 1:53 PM, Al Lorona <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I still can't understand the almost total ignoring of this fire for so long. So I resonated with Bob on this point, and for this reason I refute W6GJB's claim that resources assigned to southern California deprived northern California of the same. It seems that *nobody* had the resources they needed. What a shame.
>
> Al W6LX
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Mike / W5JR

Re: [OT] Fires

In reply to this post by Dave wo2x

Would love to send some of our rain your way. Already 87.5” at my house near Atlanta this year. We’ve been close to 80” a couple of times before. Expecting to bust 90” easily.

tnx
Mike / W5JR
Alpharetta GA

> On Oct 14, 2020, at 17:02, Dave <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I know I was asked by FEMA to head west to help as a COM-T. Unfortunately I am now disabled from a very rare infection that resulted in severe cardiac and pulmonary issues or I would have gone.
>
> There are firefighters fron here in NJ and nearby states that have gone out and some are there now. Resources from around the country have gone to assist.
>
> Hopefully the fall will bring much needed rain to the west coast. In NJ we are about 7 inches behind on annual rainfall but just had a drencher the last couple of days with more coming Friday.
>
> My thoughts and prayers go out to those affected by the wildfires and hurricanes.
>
> 2020 has been a CRAZY year!
>
> Dave wo2x
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 14, 2020, at 4:54 PM, Al Lorona <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> So I read not only K6XX's report, but the entire issue of the Jug. http://nccc.cc/jug/2020/09sep2020.pdf . I am completely floored by the complete destruction of Bob's place. Bob, I don't know if you're a believer, but I for one am praying for strength for you, my friend.
>>
>> My impression of the Bobcat fire here in Los Angeles, which got to within 2 miles from me and is still burning 38 days later, is similar to Bob's: fire agencies simply let it burn for days without any urgency whatsoever, letting it advance into backyards in the northernmost reaches of Arcadia and Monrovia before kicking into firefighting high gear at the last possible second. In strangely similar fashion, the news media never really reported with any energy on the Bobcat fire. I still can't understand the almost total ignoring of this fire for so long. So I resonated with Bob on this point, and for this reason I refute W6GJB's claim that resources assigned to southern California deprived northern California of the same. It seems that *nobody* had the resources they needed. What a shame.
>>
>> Hang in there, Bob. Please let us know if you've started a gofundme page or something like that.
>>
>> Al W6LX
>>
>>
>>> Bob, K6XX, suffered a total loss of his mountaintop home and QTH
>>> in the August 2020 SCU Complex fire. He writes about it in great detail
>>> for the NCCC September 2020 Jug, reflecting on his fire-safe preparation,
>>> how opportunities were missed to use those resources to save his property,
>>> and the rebuilding process he now faces.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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David Gilbert-2

Re: [OT] Fires

In reply to this post by alorona

I think you have a skewed view of the situation, probably understandably
so given your own vulnerability to that fire. I can find tons of media
information specifically on the Bobcat Fire with almost daily datelines
when I do a Google search, and I know from personal experience with
wildfires here in southern Arizona that agencies have to prioritize
literally on an hour by hour basis how and where they deploy scarce
resources. Slurry bombers are about the only effective countermeasures
in rough terrain (and even then only partially), since sending fire
crews into those areas is pure and simple murder.

Here where I live (dry grass, dry trees, hilly terrain) the aircraft
(slurry bombers, helicopter water drops) try to slow the fires while the
fire crews mostly just dig in their heels and try to save the homes ...
and there isn't much point in them doing so until the homes are actually
threatened. The fire that whipped through this area in 2011 burned
EVERYTHING within about 50 feet of my home, but the fire crews wouldn't
back off and they saved the house. If you can find the Google Earth
satellite pictures from July 2011 you can see what I mean (my .kml info
is available from QRZ.com page) ... everything is black except for a
cone where my house is at the pointed end of the cone.

With 4 million acres on fire in California within a short period of time
I think it's unrealistic of you to think that there will ever be enough
resources in reserve to cover everything in a situation like that ... at
least not when you would like.

Dave AB7E

On 10/14/2020 1:52 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
> So I read not only K6XX's report, but the entire issue of the Jug. http://nccc.cc/jug/2020/09sep2020.pdf . I am completely floored by the complete destruction of Bob's place. Bob, I don't know if you're a believer, but I for one am praying for strength for you, my friend.
>
> My impression of the Bobcat fire here in Los Angeles, which got to within 2 miles from me and is still burning 38 days later, is similar to Bob's: fire agencies simply let it burn for days without any urgency whatsoever, letting it advance into backyards in the northernmost reaches of Arcadia and Monrovia before kicking into firefighting high gear at the last possible second. In strangely similar fashion, the news media never really reported with any energy on the Bobcat fire. I still can't understand the almost total ignoring of this fire for so long. So I resonated with Bob on this point, and for this reason I refute W6GJB's claim that resources assigned to southern California deprived northern California of the same. It seems that *nobody* had the resources they needed. What a shame.
>
> Hang in there, Bob. Please let us know if you've started a gofundme page or something like that.
>
> Al W6LX
>
>

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AI4NS

Re: [OT] Fires

Years of mismanagement contribute to the fires. Forest Service and states
have not culled dead trees, allow logging, and not done controlled burns to
reduce the fuel. Building homes in canyons with Santa Ana winds also does
not help. Until there is a serious change in how forests are managed, this
will be a normal occurrence

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 22:06 David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I think you have a skewed view of the situation, probably understandably
> so given your own vulnerability to that fire. I can find tons of media
> information specifically on the Bobcat Fire with almost daily datelines
> when I do a Google search, and I know from personal experience with
> wildfires here in southern Arizona that agencies have to prioritize
> literally on an hour by hour basis how and where they deploy scarce
> resources. Slurry bombers are about the only effective countermeasures
> in rough terrain (and even then only partially), since sending fire
> crews into those areas is pure and simple murder.
>
> Here where I live (dry grass, dry trees, hilly terrain) the aircraft
> (slurry bombers, helicopter water drops) try to slow the fires while the
> fire crews mostly just dig in their heels and try to save the homes ...
> and there isn't much point in them doing so until the homes are actually
> threatened. The fire that whipped through this area in 2011 burned
> EVERYTHING within about 50 feet of my home, but the fire crews wouldn't
> back off and they saved the house. If you can find the Google Earth
> satellite pictures from July 2011 you can see what I mean (my .kml info
> is available from QRZ.com page) ... everything is black except for a
> cone where my house is at the pointed end of the cone.
>
> With 4 million acres on fire in California within a short period of time
> I think it's unrealistic of you to think that there will ever be enough
> resources in reserve to cover everything in a situation like that ... at
> least not when you would like.
>
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>
>
> On 10/14/2020 1:52 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
> > So I read not only K6XX's report, but the entire issue of the Jug.
> http://nccc.cc/jug/2020/09sep2020.pdf . I am completely floored by the
> complete destruction of Bob's place. Bob, I don't know if you're a
> believer, but I for one am praying for strength for you, my friend.
> >
> > My impression of the Bobcat fire here in Los Angeles, which got to
> within 2 miles from me and is still burning 38 days later, is similar to
> Bob's: fire agencies simply let it burn for days without any urgency
> whatsoever, letting it advance into backyards in the northernmost reaches
> of Arcadia and Monrovia before kicking into firefighting high gear at the
> last possible second. In strangely similar fashion, the news media never
> really reported with any energy on the Bobcat fire. I still can't
> understand the almost total ignoring of this fire for so long. So I
> resonated with Bob on this point, and for this reason I refute W6GJB's
> claim that resources assigned to southern California deprived northern
> California of the same. It seems that *nobody* had the resources they
> needed. What a shame.
> >
> > Hang in there, Bob. Please let us know if you've started a gofundme page
> or something like that.
> >
> > Al W6LX
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Elecraft mailing list

Re: [OT] Fires

Can we please get back to Elecraft topics.

On 10/14/2020 20:39, Mike Short wrote:

> Years of mismanagement contribute to the fires. Forest Service and states
> have not culled dead trees, allow logging, and not done controlled burns to
> reduce the fuel. Building homes in canyons with Santa Ana winds also does
> not help. Until there is a serious change in how forests are managed, this
> will be a normal occurrence
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 22:06 David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I think you have a skewed view of the situation, probably understandably
>> so given your own vulnerability to that fire. I can find tons of media
>> information specifically on the Bobcat Fire with almost daily datelines
>> when I do a Google search, and I know from personal experience with
>> wildfires here in southern Arizona that agencies have to prioritize
>> literally on an hour by hour basis how and where they deploy scarce
>> resources. Slurry bombers are about the only effective countermeasures
>> in rough terrain (and even then only partially), since sending fire
>> crews into those areas is pure and simple murder.
>>
>> Here where I live (dry grass, dry trees, hilly terrain) the aircraft
>> (slurry bombers, helicopter water drops) try to slow the fires while the
>> fire crews mostly just dig in their heels and try to save the homes ...
>> and there isn't much point in them doing so until the homes are actually
>> threatened. The fire that whipped through this area in 2011 burned
>> EVERYTHING within about 50 feet of my home, but the fire crews wouldn't
>> back off and they saved the house. If you can find the Google Earth
>> satellite pictures from July 2011 you can see what I mean (my .kml info
>> is available from QRZ.com page) ... everything is black except for a
>> cone where my house is at the pointed end of the cone.
>>
>> With 4 million acres on fire in California within a short period of time
>> I think it's unrealistic of you to think that there will ever be enough
>> resources in reserve to cover everything in a situation like that ... at
>> least not when you would like.
>>
>> Dave AB7E
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/14/2020 1:52 PM, Al Lorona wrote:
>>> So I read not only K6XX's report, but the entire issue of the Jug.
>> http://nccc.cc/jug/2020/09sep2020.pdf . I am completely floored by the
>> complete destruction of Bob's place. Bob, I don't know if you're a
>> believer, but I for one am praying for strength for you, my friend.
>>> My impression of the Bobcat fire here in Los Angeles, which got to
>> within 2 miles from me and is still burning 38 days later, is similar to
>> Bob's: fire agencies simply let it burn for days without any urgency
>> whatsoever, letting it advance into backyards in the northernmost reaches
>> of Arcadia and Monrovia before kicking into firefighting high gear at the
>> last possible second. In strangely similar fashion, the news media never
>> really reported with any energy on the Bobcat fire. I still can't
>> understand the almost total ignoring of this fire for so long. So I
>> resonated with Bob on this point, and for this reason I refute W6GJB's
>> claim that resources assigned to southern California deprived northern
>> California of the same. It seems that *nobody* had the resources they
>> needed. What a shame.
>>> Hang in there, Bob. Please let us know if you've started a gofundme page
>> or something like that.
>>> Al W6LX
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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na5n

Re: [OT] Fires

Steve Dyer W1SRD via Elecraft writes:

> Can we please get back to Elecraft topics.

Agreed. I "fired up" my KX2 for a couple of 40M CW QSOs tonight. Does
that count? :-)

72, Paul NA5N
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w7aqk1

Re: [OT] Fires

In reply to this post by alorona

Amen to Walter's response. Sure, there are plenty of examples of things not
being done quite right, but the real truth is that things are so far out of
control it's almost amazing that anything got saved in the fires! Our
resources are being overwhelmed!!!

Until we get our heads screwed on right, and face up to the fact that global
warming is real, this kind of thing is going to continue. It's already too
late to make things get much better very quickly. The desert "burned up"
this summer from a record number of excessive heat days (over 100 F.),
California, and Oregon, and Washington burned up literally, and our southern
regions are getting slammed by historic numbers of hurricanes. This is not
just happening by "accident". It is self induced! We are destroying the
planet slowly but surely.

If you really want to better understand what is happening, and why, I
recommend you view David Attenborough's latest documentary "A Life On Our
Planet", which is currently available on Netflix. It's a superb explanation
of how we got where we are, why we are seeing all these fires and floods,
and what we have to do SOON! Ignore it if you will, but that doesn't solve
a thing! Making empty excuses doesn't help either.

Dave W7AQK

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 21:07:33 -0700

From: Walter Underwood <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>

To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]> >

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [OT] Fires

Message-ID: <[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]> >

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

The Creek Fire was burning through forests that were 80-90% bark beetle kill

in mountain wilderness. It is simply not possible to ?thin? that. From 2014
to 2018,

the number of dead trees in California increased from 11 million to 147
million.

Anyone who thinks there is a simple solution needs to think some more.

If you want to help, I already know of five Scout camps with major damage,

one in our council, near Big Basin. They will all need donations to rebuild.

wunder

K6WRU

Walter Underwood

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JP Douglas

Re: [OT] Fires

please stop ur political nonsense and stick to ham radio.
thanks!
Jose Douglas KB1TCD

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 15, 2020, at 7:02 AM, <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Amen to Walter's response. Sure, there are plenty of examples of things not
> being done quite right, but the real truth is that things are so far out of
> control it's almost amazing that anything got saved in the fires! Our
> resources are being overwhelmed!!!
>
>
>
> Until we get our heads screwed on right, and face up to the fact that global
> warming is real, this kind of thing is going to continue. It's already too
> late to make things get much better very quickly. The desert "burned up"
> this summer from a record number of excessive heat days (over 100 F.),
> California, and Oregon, and Washington burned up literally, and our southern
> regions are getting slammed by historic numbers of hurricanes. This is not
> just happening by "accident". It is self induced! We are destroying the
> planet slowly but surely.
>
>
>
> If you really want to better understand what is happening, and why, I
> recommend you view David Attenborough's latest documentary "A Life On Our
> Planet", which is currently available on Netflix. It's a superb explanation
> of how we got where we are, why we are seeing all these fires and floods,
> and what we have to do SOON! Ignore it if you will, but that doesn't solve
> a thing! Making empty excuses doesn't help either.
>
>
>
> Dave W7AQK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 21:07:33 -0700
>
> From: Walter Underwood <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>
>
> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]> >
>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [OT] Fires
>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
> The Creek Fire was burning through forests that were 80-90% bark beetle kill
>
> in mountain wilderness. It is simply not possible to ?thin? that. From 2014
> to 2018,
>
> the number of dead trees in California increased from 11 million to 147
> million.
>
>
>
> Anyone who thinks there is a simple solution needs to think some more.
>
>
>
> If you want to help, I already know of five Scout camps with major damage,
>
> one in our council, near Big Basin. They will all need donations to rebuild.
>
>
>
> wunder
>
> K6WRU
>
> Walter Underwood
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

K8TE

Re: [OT] Fires

In reply to this post by alorona

My heart goes out to Alan and Bob for their losses. Thankfully, they got out
OK.

Walter points to a scientific fact (so many dead trees) that explains the
huge fuel source available to burn. That is not a "normal" situation. We
face similar challenges in NM where we have experienced drought and bark
beetle infestation for many years. We're hoping to avoid "the big one" that
starts in the mountains east of Albuquerque and takes out all the TV/FM/LMR
stations along with ham repeaters on Sandia Crest.

I helped clear brush and small trees from another ham's property when a fire
(human-caused like most) was approaching his property several years ago. We
moved all valuables from his home to his metal "barn" in case the fire got
to that point. Fortunately, it stopped within a mile. Two other hams in
those mountains were not as fortunate.

We have sent NM fire crews to CA again this year. Like COVID-19, this
subject is now too often linked to politics instead of science. As members
of a science-based avocation, let's keep the discussion (probably too long
already) based on science.

73, Bill, K8TE

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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