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OT: LDE defined

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DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

OT: LDE defined

What is being described does not sound like the "classic" definition of an
LDE.

Google it and you find that many define LDE as a delay of at least 2 seconds
(not milliseconds). Millisecond delays sounds, to me, like hearing your own
Long Path signal or something else not well defined....but not LDE by the
"usual" definition

As usual, YMMV

de Doug KR2Q

Try these to start
http://www.eskimo.com/~nanook/radio/2006/12/long-delayed-echo-radio-phenomena.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_delayed_echo
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N5GE

Re: OT: LDE defined

I agree, Doug.

I've been a ham for 35 years now and have experienced the round the world trip
signals on CW during most good propagation when using QSK. It's interesting,
but not that rare, especially when you are using high power and good directional
antennas.

73,

Tom Childers
Radio Amateur N5GE
Licensed since 1976
QCWA Life Member 35102
ARRL Life Member
Retired Professional
C# Software developer
http://www.n5ge.net

On Fri, 7 Jan 2011 14:14:24 -0500, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL <[hidden email]> wrote:

>What is being described does not sound like the "classic" definition of an
>LDE.
>
>Google it and you find that many define LDE as a delay of at least 2 seconds
>(not milliseconds). Millisecond delays sounds, to me, like hearing your own
>Long Path signal or something else not well defined....but not LDE by the
>"usual" definition
>
>As usual, YMMV
>
>de Doug KR2Q
>

[snip]

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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

Steve Ellington

Re: OT: LDE defined

I've heard myself many times on 80m CW but not the higher bands where one
would expect to hear your long path signal come back. It's still a mystery.

Steve
N4LQ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amateur Radio Operator N5GE" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LDE defined

>
> I agree, Doug.
>
> I've been a ham for 35 years now and have experienced the round the world
> trip
> signals on CW during most good propagation when using QSK. It's
> interesting,
> but not that rare, especially when you are using high power and good
> directional
> antennas.
>
> 73,
>
> Tom Childers
> Radio Amateur N5GE
> Licensed since 1976
> QCWA Life Member 35102
> ARRL Life Member
> Retired Professional
> C# Software developer
> http://www.n5ge.net
>
> On Fri, 7 Jan 2011 14:14:24 -0500, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>>What is being described does not sound like the "classic" definition of an
>>LDE.
>>
>>Google it and you find that many define LDE as a delay of at least 2
>>seconds
>>(not milliseconds). Millisecond delays sounds, to me, like hearing your
>>own
>>Long Path signal or something else not well defined....but not LDE by the
>>"usual" definition
>>
>>As usual, YMMV
>>
>>de Doug KR2Q
>>
> [snip]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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Phil LaMarche-2

Re: OT: LDE defined

At the North Pole in 1958, on the higher bands, I heard myself many times.
Was eerie. KL7FLA on Drift Station Alpha.

Phil

Philip LaMarche

LaMarche Enterprises, Inc
[hidden email]
www.LaMarcheEnterprises.com

727-944-3226
727-937-8834 Fax
727-510-5038 Cell

www.w9dvm.com

K3 #1605

CCA 98-00827
CRA 1701
W9DVM

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve Ellington
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 2:56 PM
To: Amateur Radio Operator N5GE; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LDE defined

I've heard myself many times on 80m CW but not the higher bands where one
would expect to hear your long path signal come back. It's still a mystery.

Steve
N4LQ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amateur Radio Operator N5GE" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LDE defined

k2zf50

Re: OT: LDE defined

In reply to this post by Steve Ellington

I also have witnessed signal delays on 80 meters. Not the long delayed echo type but the shorter duration echos. It could be a magnetic field anomaly that produces this effect. If we hear the echo I suggest we check out the solar flux, K, A indexes of the time period and record them for future reference.
It is an interesting thing to hear and I have heard them a few times.
Jim Douglas K2ZF

From: Steve Ellington <[hidden email]>
To: Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <[hidden email]>; Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Sent: Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:56 am
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LDE defined

I've heard myself many times on 80m CW but not the higher bands where one
would expect to hear your long path signal come back. It's sti

Steve
N4LQ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amateur Radio Operator N5GE" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LDE defined

k2zf50

Re: OT: LDE defined

In reply to this post by Phil LaMarche-2

If I am not mistaken, the original post was in reference to 80 meters. I may be wrong, but I am not aware of long path on that band.
Jim Douglas K2ZF

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil LaMarche <[hidden email]>
To: 'Steve Ellington' <[hidden email]>; 'Amateur Radio Operator N5GE' <[hidden email]>; 'Elecraft Reflector' <[hidden email]>
Sent: Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:11 am
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LDE defined

At the North Pole in 1958, on the higher bands, I heard myself many times.
Was eerie. KL7FLA on Drift Station Alpha.

Phil

Philip LaMarche

LaMarche Enterprises, Inc
[hidden email]
www.LaMarcheEnterprises.com

727-944-3226
727-937-8834 Fax
727-510-5038 Cell

www.w9dvm.com

K3 #1605

CCA 98-00827
CRA 1701
W9DVM

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve Ellington
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 2:56 PM
To: Amateur Radio Operator N5GE; Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LDE defined

I've heard myself many times on 80m CW but not the higher bands where one
would expect to hear your long path signal come back. It's still a mystery.

Steve
N4LQ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amateur Radio Operator N5GE" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LDE defined

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g3ymc

Re: OT: LDE defined

In reply to this post by N5GE

On 7 Jan 2011 at 13:48, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote:

> I've been a ham for 35 years now and have experienced the round the
> world trip signals on CW during most good propagation when using QSK.
> It's interesting, but not that rare, especially when you are using high
> power and good directional antennas.

In 2002 with my K2 at 5W I heard my own signals coming back to me while
calling stations on 10m, at a time when there were JA stations coming
in with auroral tone. These delays were the classic 140ms or so for a
single hop round the world. My best DX, working myself on longpath...

But the LDE's referred to on 80m are more usually several seconds.
There was an extensive article in QST a few years ago from a USA
amateur who had experienced these. You can easily explain the round-the-
world ones (and you don't need high power) but there is no logical
explanation for the very long delay ones. I don't expect to hear these
myself with 5W and a short longwire...

73 Dave G3YMC

http://www.davesergeant.com

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Dunc Carter - W5DC

Re: OT: LDE defined

In reply to this post by k2zf50

On 1/7/2011 2:17 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> If I am not mistaken, the original post was in reference to 80 meters. I may be wrong, but I am not aware of long path on that band.
> Jim Douglas K2ZF
>
Long ago, I had a four element vertical driven array for 80 which was
good for 215 countries worked on 80 during the first year of 5B DXCC.
In January, I'd consistently work Vitaly, UL7GW, now SK, via long path
with strong signals. My experience was that the lower in frequency the
band, the narrower the region of good signals. My longest distance on
80 was some UA1 in Archangelsk.

Dunc, W5DC, then W5IOU
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Guy, K2AV

Re: OT: LDE defined

At NY4A multiop, probably in the ARRL DX some years back, on 40
meters, with the antenna a monster 5 element full spaced quad on a 220
foot catenary, I sent TEST NY4A NY4A, and after a very slight pause
heard clearly at S8 or S9, TEST NY4A NY4A. I was sure someone was
just trying to interfere on the frequency, but it happened
consistently. I finally sent a miscellaneous string of random dits
and dahs from the paddle, with no spaces, for about 5 seconds. I
heard the string start up during the QSK, and it continued for another
2 seconds or so after I let up.

By that time I was on the speaker, and I had witnesses to what
happened. We all settled on LDE and got back to the contest. The LDE
got weaker and weaker (but not quicker or slower) and faded out in
about ten minutes.

So nobody has to convince me about LDEs any more :>)

73, Guy.
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Bill W4ZV

Re: OT: LDE defined

In reply to this post by k2zf50

k2zf50 wrote

If I am not mistaken, the original post was in reference to 80 meters. I may be wrong, but I am not aware of long path on that band.
Jim Douglas K2ZF

Long path is an everyday occurrence on 80 during the winter. Listen tomorrow morning around 11-1200z for XU7ACY coming via long path from the SSW direction, or around 22-2300z coming via long path from the SSE direction.

73, Bill