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OT: LED Light Bulbs

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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-2

OT: LED Light Bulbs

Just saw an ad for Genie LED Bulbs.

Apparently some LED light bulbs make enough noise that they desense the
garage door receiver.

These bulbs are specifically low-RFI.

I have no more information. For all I know, they fix the garage door
RFI by moving the noise to 14.300 MHz.

73 -- Lynn
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ae5ka

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 5:30 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just saw an ad for Genie LED Bulbs.
>
> Apparently some LED light bulbs make enough noise that they desense the
> garage door receiver.
>
> These bulbs are specifically low-RFI.
>
> I have no more information. For all I know, they fix the garage door RFI
> by moving the noise to 14.300 MHz.
>
> 73 -- Lynn
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>

ae5ka

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-2

How ironic. My two Genie garage door openers sit there and generate a huge
amount of buzz-saw hash on HF as long as they have power. I have to
essentially unplug them to use the radio, and my horizontal loop is 100
feet away from them.

Chip
AE5KA

On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 5:30 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <
[hidden email]> wrote:

Terry Schieler-2

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-2

Apparently correct, Lynn. I had my garage door serviced two weeks ago and the last thing the repairman did was pop open the frosted plastic bulb cover on the opener and say "just making sure you don't have LED bulbs in here. They play havoc with the receiver on the openers). He said most everyone in the garage door industry knows of that problem. First I had heard of it.

73, Terry W0FM

-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2017 4:31 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs

Just saw an ad for Genie LED Bulbs.

Apparently some LED light bulbs make enough noise that they desense the garage door receiver.

These bulbs are specifically low-RFI.

I have no more information. For all I know, they fix the garage door RFI by moving the noise to 14.300 MHz.

73 -- Lynn

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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-2

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

I didn't post this because I hoped it'd help everyone with their Garage
Door Openers.

I posted it because *if* the Genie Bulbs are low-RFI across the whole
spectrum, that might be useful for other reasons.

73 -- Lynn

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2017 4:31 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
>
> Just saw an ad for Genie LED Bulbs.
>
> Apparently some LED light bulbs make enough noise that they desense the garage door receiver.
>
> These bulbs are specifically low-RFI.
>
> I have no more information. For all I know, they fix the garage door RFI by moving the noise to 14.300 MHz.
>
> 73 -- Lynn

w4sc-2

OT: LED Light Bulbs

In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-2

An observation:

I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA television, Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV.

Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction / elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS integral to the bulb.

The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb) and is ‘C UL US’ listed, purchased from LOWEs.

I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen (60w?) bulbs, 2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM.

By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the offending bulb was determined to be the Utilitech.

I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and the RFI on channel 10 OTA was eliminated.

The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP as printed on the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also.

NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on other frequencies. LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class B regulations.

YMMV

I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils “good” vs “bad” LED bulb manufacturer and part identification as far as RFI emissions across the spectrum.

Ben W4SC
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

Makes me wonder if at all or how frequently production lots are
evaluated to determine if they are in FCC Part 15 compliance.

Otherwise, the approach "we evaluated one production lot, deemed it
passed" {a.k.a - I saw it work once, ship it} and then produced a
million or so afterwards including those with some engineering changes
and cost down changes.

Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump the
main breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 10/21/2017 9:48 AM, w4sc wrote:

> An observation:
>
> I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA television, Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV.
>
> Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction / elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS integral to the bulb.
>
> The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb) and is ‘C UL US’ listed, purchased from LOWEs.
>
> I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen (60w?) bulbs, 2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM.
>
> By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the offending bulb was determined to be the Utilitech.
>
> I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and the RFI on channel 10 OTA was eliminated.
>
> The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP as printed on the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also.
>
> NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on other frequencies. LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class B regulations.
>
> YMMV
>
> I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils “good” vs “bad” LED bulb manufacturer and part identification as far as RFI emissions across the spectrum.
>
> Ben W4SC
> ______________________________________________________________
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Jim - N4ST

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

I have noticed the background noise level growing on the HF bands, and for me, especially on 18 Mhz. I need to declare war on RFI and find out what is causing this. I did carefully checkout some Walmart "100 W" LED lights before committing to them and they were fine.

_________
73,
Jim - N4ST

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 11:32
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs

Makes me wonder if at all or how frequently production lots are evaluated to determine if they are in FCC Part 15 compliance.

Otherwise, the approach "we evaluated one production lot, deemed it passed" {a.k.a - I saw it work once, ship it} and then produced a million or so afterwards including those with some engineering changes and cost down changes.

Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump the main breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 10/21/2017 9:48 AM, w4sc wrote:

> An observation:
>
> I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA television, Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV.
>
> Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction / elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS integral to the bulb.
>
> The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb) and is ‘C UL US’ listed, purchased from LOWEs.
>
> I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen (60w?) bulbs, 2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM.
>
> By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the offending bulb was determined to be the Utilitech.
>
> I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and the RFI on channel 10 OTA was eliminated.
>
> The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP as printed on the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also.
>
> NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on other frequencies. LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class B regulations.
>
> YMMV
>
> I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils “good” vs “bad” LED bulb manufacturer and part identification as far as RFI emissions across the spectrum.
>
> Ben W4SC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

One thing observed at our repeater location is that the CFL was quiet until the the transmitter was on the air. It then generated noise. In a simplex condition it wouldn't be observed. But in a duplex operation or multiple receiver situation it becomes an issue. Replaced by a LED with lessened issues.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 21, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Jim - N4ST <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have noticed the background noise level growing on the HF bands, and for me, especially on 18 Mhz. I need to declare war on RFI and find out what is causing this. I did carefully checkout some Walmart "100 W" LED lights before committing to them and they were fine.
>
>
> _________
>
> 73,
>
> Jim - N4ST
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 11:32
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
>
> Makes me wonder if at all or how frequently production lots are evaluated to determine if they are in FCC Part 15 compliance.
>
> Otherwise, the approach "we evaluated one production lot, deemed it passed" {a.k.a - I saw it work once, ship it} and then produced a million or so afterwards including those with some engineering changes and cost down changes.
>
> Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump the main breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>
> On 10/21/2017 9:48 AM, w4sc wrote:
>
> > An observation:
>
> >
>
> > I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA television, Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV.
>
> >
>
> > Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction / elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS integral to the bulb.
>
> >
>
> > The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb) and is ‘C UL US’ listed, purchased from LOWEs.
>
> >
>
> > I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen (60w?) bulbs, 2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM.
>
> >
>
> > By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the offending bulb was determined to be the Utilitech.
>
> >
>
> > I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and the RFI on channel 10 OTA was eliminated.
>
> >
>
> > The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP as printed on the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also.
>
> >
>
> > NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on other frequencies. LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class B regulations.
>
> >
>
> > YMMV
>
> >
>
> > I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils “good” vs “bad” LED bulb manufacturer and part identification as far as RFI emissions across the spectrum.
>
> >
>
> > Ben W4SC
>
> > ______________________________________________________________
>
> > Elecraft mailing list
>
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> >
>
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>
> > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>
> > [hidden email]
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
>
> Elecraft mailing list
>
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]

Kevin Cozens-2

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

In reply to this post by w4sc-2

On 2017-10-21 10:48 AM, w4sc wrote:
> LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class B regulations.

I found out first hand a number of years ago that a device that has type
approval in the US can still spew a lot of unwanted RF. Better to have some
approval process but it would be better if the specs were much more strict.

I worked for a company that had a pair of transceiver devices used in
real-time data collection. The devices had FCC type approval but failed to
pass the UK type approval process. I couldn't believe what I saw when I put
the devices on a spectrum analyzer. The main oscillators operating in the
27MHz and 49MHz ranges had harmonics galore up in to the gigahertz range. It
made me wonder if the original designer ever checked the devices with an SA.
I was able to fix the problem for both devices with trivial changes and the
devices then passed the UK approval process.

The FCC (or was it ARRL) is doing a study/survey about the increasing noise
floor in the RF spectrum. It no longer surprises me that the floor is rising
when the US approval process is so lax.

--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
| powerful!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

As I understand a company can perform self certification. There seems to be no independent audit system. Thus if the company says it meets specs, then it meets specs.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 21, 2017, at 3:28 PM, Kevin Cozens <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-10-21 10:48 AM, w4sc wrote:
>> LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class B regulations.
>
> I found out first hand a number of years ago that a device that has type approval in the US can still spew a lot of unwanted RF. Better to have some approval process but it would be better if the specs were much more strict.
>
> I worked for a company that had a pair of transceiver devices used in real-time data collection. The devices had FCC type approval but failed to pass the UK type approval process. I couldn't believe what I saw when I put the devices on a spectrum analyzer. The main oscillators operating in the 27MHz and 49MHz ranges had harmonics galore up in to the gigahertz range. It made me wonder if the original designer ever checked the devices with an SA. I was able to fix the problem for both devices with trivial changes and the devices then passed the UK approval process.
>
> The FCC (or was it ARRL) is doing a study/survey about the increasing noise floor in the RF spectrum. It no longer surprises me that the floor is rising when the US approval process is so lax.
>
> --
> Cheers!
>
> Kevin.
>
> http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
> Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
> | powerful!"
> #include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Gary Smith-2

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Something to consider is what noise is
coming in on the cable after you pull the
breaker on the house. I did that and found
the AM portable went nuts next to the
breaker box. Found the noise is coming in
off of the cable lines. Zero luck with the
cable company...

Just sayin'

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Makes me wonder if at all or how frequently production lots are
> evaluated to determine if they are in FCC Part 15 compliance.
>
> Otherwise, the approach "we evaluated one production lot, deemed it
> passed" {a.k.a - I saw it work once, ship it} and then produced a
> million or so afterwards including those with some engineering changes
> and cost down changes.
>
> Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump the
> main breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>
> On 10/21/2017 9:48 AM, w4sc wrote:
> > An observation:
> >
> > I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA
> > television, Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV.
> >
> > Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction /
> > elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS
> > integral to the bulb.
> >
> > The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb)
> > and is `C UL US´ listed, purchased from LOWEs.
> >
> > I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen
> > (60w?) bulbs, 2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM.
> >
> > By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the
> > offending bulb was determined to be the Utilitech.
> >
> > I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and the
> > RFI on channel 10 OTA was eliminated.
> >
> > The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP as
> > printed on the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also.
> >
> > NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on other
> > frequencies. LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class
> > B regulations.
> >
> > YMMV
> >
> > I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils
> > "good" vs "bad" LED bulb manufacturer and part
> > identification as far as RFI emissions across the spectrum.
> >
> > Ben W4SC

NK7Z

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

In reply to this post by Jim - N4ST

Hello Jim,

Something that might help you in your RFI fight is being able to
accurately define your RFI environment. See:

http://nk7z.net/sdr-rfi-survey-p1/

for a brief write up on how to use an SDRPlay RSP-1 to look at your
entire RFI environment, shown as a spectrogram, of frequency vs time,
across a 24 hour period.

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 10/21/2017 09:21 AM, Jim - N4ST wrote:
> I have noticed the background noise level growing on the HF bands, and for me, especially on 18 Mhz. I need to declare war on RFI and find out what is causing this.
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Jim Brown-10

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

A year or two ago, W3LPL taught us that this is the result of passive
intermod generated either by the diodes or the SMPS or both. We see this
in our CW contesting trailer, where CW operating frequencies on 80, 40,
and 20 are harmonically related. We run K3, P3, KPA500, KAT500 to
individual single-band dipoles with feedpoints within a few feet of each
other. The 40 and 80 feedlines both have double stubs, placed along the
line to maximize their effectiveness per this app note
http://k9yc.com/LocatingStubs.pdf and all antennas have common mode
chokes at the feedpoint.

If we park in the middle of nowhere, the stubs bring the power amp
second harmonic down to the point that we can operate within 10 kHz or
so of it. If, however, we set up close to civilization, some piece of
gear, usually an SMPS, receives our fundamental, generates the harmonic,
and re-radiates it. During CQP two weeks ago, we thought we were in the
middle of nowhere (a remote mountain ridge in the Sierra), but then saw
a cell tower a half mile or so away. My experience has been lots of
noise sources at these sites, and something(s) near us were generating
lots of harmonics.

Last week I was working the Makrothen RTTY contest at home, running
about 1 kW between 20and 40 with antennas whose feedpoints are 5-10 ft
apart. Usually that's not a problem, thanks to double stubs on the 40M
antenna, but that day I heard lots of passive intermod and saw it on the
P3. Then at some time in the morning the intermod disappeared. I'm
guessing that the offending device was moved, turned off, disconnected?

On 10/21/2017 9:51 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> One thing observed at our repeater location is that the CFL was quiet until the the transmitter was on the air. It then generated noise. In a simplex condition it wouldn't be observed. But in a duplex operation or multiple receiver situation it becomes an issue. Replaced by a LED with lessened issues.

http://k9yc.com/KillingRXNoiseVisalia.pdf

http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

On 10/21/2017 9:21 AM, Jim - N4ST wrote:
> I have noticed the background noise level growing on the HF bands, and for me, especially on 18 Mhz. I need to declare war on RFI and find out what is causing this. I did carefully checkout some Walmart "100 W" LED lights before committing to them and they were fine.

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Phil Kane-2

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

On 10/21/2017 8:32 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump the
> main breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes.

That's always the first step in chasing RFI. If that does it, then trip
each individual breaker one at a time and see which one(s) stop the
noise. It's not rocket science and a lot easier than starting with
appliances/lamps as the first step.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402
Retired RFI-chaser
From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Phil Kane-2

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

In reply to this post by Kevin Cozens-2

On 10/21/2017 1:28 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote:

> The FCC (or was it ARRL) is doing a study/survey about the increasing
> noise floor in the RF spectrum. It no longer surprises me that the floor
> is rising when the US approval process is so lax.

It started going downhill when the FCC in its infinite wisdom (my
employer at the time) decided to shift most of its responsibilities,
including the equipment approval process, to the private sector.
Depending on what the relationship between the testing lab and the
manufacturer is, the testing may be above-board or just "stick on a
label". Then we have the problem of the "laboratory queens" where
devices submitted for testing are tweaked into compliance just for that
purpose and they bear little or any resemblance to the devices shipped
to the market other than cosmetic. The cheap-o Chinese radios are a
prime example. The volume of electronic devices shipped from overseas
has so overwhelmed both the FCC and the US Customs that they have
stopped requiring and processing the former Declaration of Conformity
(FCC Form 740) for importation.

Enough ranting....

----

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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K9MA

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

On 10/22/2017 13:31, Phil Kane wrote:
> The volume of electronic devices shipped from overseas
> has so overwhelmed both the FCC and the US Customs that they have
> stopped requiring and processing the former Declaration of Conformity
> (FCC Form 740) for importation.

That explains much.

73,

Scott K9MA

--
Scott K9MA

[hidden email]

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Phil Kane-2

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

On 10/21/2017 1:45 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

> Something to consider is what noise is coming in on the cable after
> you pull the breaker on the house. I did that and found the AM
> portable went nuts next to the breaker box. Found the noise is coming
> in off of the cable lines. Zero luck with the cable company...

Not zero --- one of the few things that the FCC field enforcement is
still doing involves responding to complaints of leaky cable systems
because of the possibility of signal leaking in the Aviation and Public
Safety bands. They won't do anything unless the affected party makes a
complaint, though. 1-888-CALL FCC (1-888-225-5322). The magic words
are "cable signal leakage causing interference to communications".
----

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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kstover

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Maybe I'm just lucky.
Over the last two years I changed out all the incandescent and CFL bulbs
in this house save two. They are the two 150W Halogen lights I have to
illuminate the garage/driveway/deck if someone gets too close to the
house at night.

No RFI detected on a K3 or a K2.

On 10/21/2017 11:51 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> One thing observed at our repeater location is that the CFL was quiet until the the transmitter was on the air. It then generated noise. In a simplex condition it wouldn't be observed. But in a duplex operation or multiple receiver situation it becomes an issue. Replaced by a LED with lessened issues.
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 21, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Jim - N4ST <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I have noticed the background noise level growing on the HF bands, and for me, especially on 18 Mhz. I need to declare war on RFI and find out what is causing this. I did carefully checkout some Walmart "100 W" LED lights before committing to them and they were fine.
>>
>>
>> _________
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Jim - N4ST
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
>> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 11:32
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
>>
>> Makes me wonder if at all or how frequently production lots are evaluated to determine if they are in FCC Part 15 compliance.
>>
>> Otherwise, the approach "we evaluated one production lot, deemed it passed" {a.k.a - I saw it work once, ship it} and then produced a million or so afterwards including those with some engineering changes and cost down changes.
>>
>> Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump the main breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/21/2017 9:48 AM, w4sc wrote:
>>
>>> An observation:
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA television, Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction / elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS integral to the bulb.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb) and is ‘C UL US’ listed, purchased from LOWEs.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen (60w?) bulbs, 2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the offending bulb was determined to be the Utilitech.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and the RFI on channel 10 OTA was eliminated.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP as printed on the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on other frequencies. LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class B regulations.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> YMMV
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils “good” vs “bad” LED bulb manufacturer and part identification as far as RFI emissions across the spectrum.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Ben W4SC
>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>>>
>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>>
>>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>>
>>> [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>>
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>>
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>
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--
R. Kevin Stover AC0H
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441
ARRL
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NK7Z

Re: OT: LED Light Bulbs

Currently Dollar Tree has a set of 60W sunbeam LED lights on sale for a
buck each, and they are dead quiet. I bought 20 of them today, and
swapped out every light in the house. Lost about half an S unit of noise.

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 10/23/2017 05:07 PM, Kevin Stover, AC0H wrote:

> Maybe I'm just lucky.
> Over the last two years I changed out all the incandescent and CFL bulbs
> in this house save two. They are the two 150W Halogen lights I have to
> illuminate the garage/driveway/deck if someone gets too close to the
> house at night.
>
> No RFI detected on a K3 or a K2.
>
> On 10/21/2017 11:51 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> One thing observed at our repeater location is that the CFL was quiet
>> until the the transmitter was on the air. It then generated noise. In
>> a simplex condition it wouldn't be observed. But in a duplex operation
>> or multiple receiver situation it becomes an issue. Replaced by a LED
>> with lessened issues.
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 21, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Jim - N4ST <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have noticed the background noise level growing on the HF bands,
>>> and for me, especially on 18 Mhz. I need to declare war on RFI and
>>> find out what is causing this. I did carefully checkout some Walmart
>>> "100 W" LED lights before committing to them and they were fine.
>>>
>>>
>>> _________
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Jim - N4ST
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 11:32
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: LED Light Bulbs
>>>
>>> Makes me wonder if at all or how frequently production lots are
>>> evaluated to determine if they are in FCC Part 15 compliance.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, the approach "we evaluated one production lot, deemed it
>>> passed" {a.k.a - I saw it work once, ship it} and then produced a
>>> million or so afterwards including those with some engineering
>>> changes and cost down changes.
>>>
>>> Guess I need to power the radio from the tractor battery and dump the
>>> main breaker in the house to see how much the noise changes.
>>>
>>> 73
>>>
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/21/2017 9:48 AM, w4sc wrote:
>>>
>>>> An observation:
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> I too had RFI from LED lights, but the interference was to OTA
>>>> television, Channel 10 (192-198 MHz) DTV.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Not all LED bulbs are created equal in this regard, RFI reduction /
>>>> elimination. The RFI was generated in this case by the SMPS
>>>> integral to the bulb.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> The offending bulb is Utilitech part # 5DG6 (printed on the bulb)
>>>> and is ‘C UL US’ listed, purchased from LOWEs.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> I have a overhead fixture that was populated with four 800 lumen
>>>> (60w?) bulbs, 2 being Utilitech, and 2 Sylvania OSRAM.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> By removing the bulbs and observing channel 10 reception, the
>>>> offending bulb was determined to be the Utilitech.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> I replaced the the the Utilitech bulbs with Sylvania OSRAM, and the
>>>> RFI on channel 10 OTA was eliminated.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> The Sylvania OSRAM part number used is LED8.5A19/DIM/0/827/G5/RP as
>>>> printed on the box UPC, and were purchased from LOWEs also.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> NOTE: There may be interference from Sylvania OSRAM bulbs on other
>>>> frequencies. LED bulbs are required to meet FCC Part 15 FCC, Class
>>>> B regulations.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> YMMV
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> I have not seen a comprehensive report or article that unveils
>>>> “good” vs “bad” LED bulb manufacturer and part identification as far
>>>> as RFI emissions across the spectrum.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Ben W4SC
>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>>>
>>>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>>>
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>
>