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OT: Package shippers

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Ken G Kopp

OT: Package shippers

I suspect for each of us our view of shippers will vary widel.

While certainly not a "large" shipper, Rose (Elecraft Covers)
ships a number of packages a week, with many going to
foreign destinations.

She -always- ships via the USPS and mostly via Priority Mail.
In almost ten years she's had one package go astray, and
that was due to me typing a wrong ZIP code. A Priority Mail
package will reach any US destination in no more then three
days.

FedEx is absolutely terrible! One fat envelope of legal papers
from our bank was left on the driveway, laying in two inches
of water. Another was tossed over a fence into the yard. Yet
another was dropped near the BACK door of the house. Didn't
find it until a trace was instituted for the "missing" delivery.

When we order fabric, webbing, Velcro supplies, the vendor
is told in no uncertain terms if the order is sent vis FedEx it
will be the last one they get. A gawd awful company! (:-)

FedEx problems may stem from their use of non-company
contract drivers in their trucks ... at least in this area.

UPS is OK in our view ... all of Rose's orders are shipped via
UPS or the USPS.

Trivia: A case shipped to Istanbul via USPS Airmail was
delivered in Turkey in -five- days!!

FWIW ...

73!

Ken - K0PP
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Rick Tavan-2

Re: OT: Package shippers

The radio world seems to be converging on your opinion, Ken. Almost all
packages I've received in the past few years have come via UPS and I use it
myself for my occasional outbound shipments. That being said, there is a
disturbing relationship between UPS and USPS: In some rural areas, and
maybe elsewhere, UPS can hand off a package for ultimate delivery by USPS.
Seems reasonable except that the two providers have different conditions of
carriage. UPS agrees to deliver to a home doorstep while USPS requires that
a home have an official USPS mailbox which they use when able. If USPS
delivers a package too large for the mailbox, then they will deliver to the
doorstep. However, if there is no mailbox, USPS will not deliver any
package of any size. They return the package to the sender, no notice to or
recourse for the intended recipient. UPS and mail-order shippers don't
disclose this occasional glitch (at least I've not seen it) so both
shippers and recipients get screwed. Moral of the story: If you don't have
a mailbox, don't order packages that will be shipped by UPS. Better, use
someone else's delivery address that has a mailbox. If you have a PO box,
some US Post Offices will accept courier packages addressed to their own
street address with an appended box number. But the shipper must specify
that street address because UPS will not deliver to a PO Box explicitly!
Catch 22.

73,

/Rick N6XI

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Ken G Kopp <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I suspect for each of us our view of shippers will vary widel.
>
> While certainly not a "large" shipper, Rose (Elecraft Covers)
> ships a number of packages a week, with many going to
> foreign destinations.
>
> She -always- ships via the USPS and mostly via Priority Mail.
> In almost ten years she's had one package go astray, and
> that was due to me typing a wrong ZIP code. A Priority Mail
> package will reach any US destination in no more then three
> days.
>
> FedEx is absolutely terrible! One fat envelope of legal papers
> from our bank was left on the driveway, laying in two inches
> of water. Another was tossed over a fence into the yard. Yet
> another was dropped near the BACK door of the house. Didn't
> find it until a trace was instituted for the "missing" delivery.
>
> When we order fabric, webbing, Velcro supplies, the vendor
> is told in no uncertain terms if the order is sent vis FedEx it
> will be the last one they get. A gawd awful company! (:-)
>
> FedEx problems may stem from their use of non-company
> contract drivers in their trucks ... at least in this area.
>
> UPS is OK in our view ... all of Rose's orders are shipped via
> UPS or the USPS.
>
> Trivia: A case shipped to Istanbul via USPS Airmail was
> delivered in Turkey in -five- days!!
>
> FWIW ...
>
> 73!
>
> Ken - K0PP
> [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

K7TV

Re: OT: Package shippers

In reply to this post by Ken G Kopp

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Basilier [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 11:43 AM
To: 'Rick Tavan' <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] OT: Package shippers

In the past I have used UPS extensively, but recently they refused to ship
my expensive tube amplifier, in its original packing materials, unless I
would pay them to re-pack in their own, new packing materials. I was told
that their new policy is that, unless the insured value is less than $100,
the customer must pay for new packing materials, provided and packed by UPS.
Even before the extra packing expense, their price was much higher than
FedEx.

Regarding FedEx, I had one bad experience years ago, when they delivered a
package to a large apartment complex across the street, instead of to my
single family house. Since then, I have been using them many times for bulky
items, always successfully.

I agree that USPS has an excellent record of delivering packages undamaged.
For small packages they are also great on price, but not so much for bigger
items.

73,
Erik K7TV

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rick
Tavan
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 11:14 AM
To: Ken G Kopp <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: Package shippers

The radio world seems to be converging on your opinion, Ken. Almost all
packages I've received in the past few years have come via UPS and I use it
myself for my occasional outbound shipments. That being said, there is a
disturbing relationship between UPS and USPS: In some rural areas, and maybe
elsewhere, UPS can hand off a package for ultimate delivery by USPS.
Seems reasonable except that the two providers have different conditions of
carriage. UPS agrees to deliver to a home doorstep while USPS requires that
a home have an official USPS mailbox which they use when able. If USPS
delivers a package too large for the mailbox, then they will deliver to the
doorstep. However, if there is no mailbox, USPS will not deliver any package
of any size. They return the package to the sender, no notice to or recourse
for the intended recipient. UPS and mail-order shippers don't disclose this
occasional glitch (at least I've not seen it) so both shippers and
recipients get screwed. Moral of the story: If you don't have a mailbox,
don't order packages that will be shipped by UPS. Better, use someone else's
delivery address that has a mailbox. If you have a PO box, some US Post
Offices will accept courier packages addressed to their own street address
with an appended box number. But the shipper must specify that street
address because UPS will not deliver to a PO Box explicitly!
Catch 22.

73,

/Rick N6XI

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Ken G Kopp <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I suspect for each of us our view of shippers will vary widel.
>
> While certainly not a "large" shipper, Rose (Elecraft Covers) ships a
> number of packages a week, with many going to foreign destinations.
>
> She -always- ships via the USPS and mostly via Priority Mail.
> In almost ten years she's had one package go astray, and that was due
> to me typing a wrong ZIP code. A Priority Mail package will reach any
> US destination in no more then three days.
>
> FedEx is absolutely terrible! One fat envelope of legal papers from
> our bank was left on the driveway, laying in two inches of water.
> Another was tossed over a fence into the yard. Yet another was
> dropped near the BACK door of the house. Didn't find it until a trace
> was instituted for the "missing" delivery.
>
> When we order fabric, webbing, Velcro supplies, the vendor is told in
> no uncertain terms if the order is sent vis FedEx it will be the last
> one they get. A gawd awful company! (:-)
>
> FedEx problems may stem from their use of non-company contract drivers
> in their trucks ... at least in this area.
>
> UPS is OK in our view ... all of Rose's orders are shipped via UPS or
> the USPS.
>
> Trivia: A case shipped to Istanbul via USPS Airmail was delivered in
> Turkey in -five- days!!
>
> FWIW ...
>
> 73!
>
> Ken - K0PP
> [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]
>

--

Rick Tavan
Truckee, CA
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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-2

Re: OT: Package shippers

In reply to this post by Rick Tavan-2

This is a UPS "service" that has a lower service commitment and a lower
price than "UPS Brown."

It takes advantage of "consolidator" rates, with UPS delivering
pre-sorted packages to a hub Post Office for final delivery.

FedEx has a similar service.

E-Commerce and mail order companies love these services because they're
cheap, but the typical customer service agent doesn't know the
difference between "UPS Brown" (delivery by UPS) and the cheaper UPS to
USPS service.

Since the agent (or the website) thinks they're shipping standard
Ground, they insist on a "real" address. The company then uses the
cheaper service, the package hits the post office and goes back to the
shipper.

I've had good luck with the work-arounds in your post. I usually put
things like m/s 9999 in the "company" field because some shippers
"standardize" addresses, and the company name is usually unedited.

If you specify "UPS Brown" and the shipper follows instructions, you'll
get the package from UPS, not through the Post Office.

This cheaper service is only available to larger shippers. It's not
available to consumers.

73 -- Lynn

On 4/26/2017 11:13 AM, Rick Tavan wrote:
> The radio world seems to be converging on your opinion, Ken. Almost all
> packages I've received in the past few years have come via UPS and I use it
> myself for my occasional outbound shipments. That being said, there is a
> disturbing relationship between UPS and USPS: In some rural areas, and
> maybe elsewhere, UPS can hand off a package for ultimate delivery by USPS.
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k6dgw

Re: OT: Package shippers

In reply to this post by Ken G Kopp

FedX places a top priority on businesses with whom they have shipping
contracts, to the detriment of individuals. My employer had a contract
with them, practically everything went overnight, and the volume was
"yuuge." Nothing ever got lost. I was on the road a great deal and
regularly got envelopes at hotels, and in client's and partner's
facilities. I thought this was how the entire FedX world worked. After
retiring and having to use the FedX Store, I discovered:

It cost a LOT more to ship an envelope at the FedX Store than it did
when I took it to work and shipped it with a company label.

Delivery to homes seems to be random. One package was left on top of a
trash toter at the road. While it was badly banged up by the trash
truck, it ended up in the road and not in the truck, fortunately.

Conversely, my wife and I "adopt" deployed troops and send them
packages. Since we started in 2002, we've mailed hundreds ... all USPS
Priority Mail. Not one has been lost, and we've gotten some photos of
our troopers where we can see the package ... in about the shape it was
when we mailed it. We can even track them as far as JFK where they seem
to fall into a military black hole. [:-) All the ones I've looked at got
to JFK in two [sometimes one] days, to the troop in "The Stan" in about
7 more.

73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 4/26/2017 10:56 AM, Ken G Kopp wrote:
> I suspect for each of us our view of shippers will vary widel.
>
> FedEx is absolutely terrible! One fat envelope of legal papers
> from our bank was left on the driveway, laying in two inches
> of water. Another was tossed over a fence into the yard. Yet
> another was dropped near the BACK door of the house. Didn't
> find it until a trace was instituted for the "missing" delivery.
>

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Don Wilhelm

Re: OT: Package shippers

In reply to this post by K7TV

Erik and all,

I believe that amount is $1000 rather than the $100 that you quoted -
unless the particular packing store you used sets their own rules.
If you shipped at a UPS store, this new rule is unknown to me.

I do have a UPS account (but not regular pickup), and do not have a
problem with any package where the value is less than $1000.
If it is greater than that value, I can pack it, but I have to hand it
off to a UPS driver rather than dropping it off at a shipping center.
The driver is required to sign a form for my records, and he takes
responsibility for it from that time.

Independent shipping centers that ship UPS are free to set their own
rules, and yes, if I take a package to one of them for shipment and
declare $1000 or greater value, they will insist on packaging it. That
is fair, because they share in responsibility for that parcel.

You learn those things after you have been shipping frequently for a while.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/26/2017 2:46 PM, Erik Basilier wrote:

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Erik Basilier [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 11:43 AM
> To: 'Rick Tavan' <[hidden email]>
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] OT: Package shippers
>
> In the past I have used UPS extensively, but recently they refused to ship
> my expensive tube amplifier, in its original packing materials, unless I
> would pay them to re-pack in their own, new packing materials. I was told
> that their new policy is that, unless the insured value is less than $100,
> the customer must pay for new packing materials, provided and packed by UPS.
> Even before the extra packing expense, their price was much higher than
> FedEx.

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K7TV

Re: OT: Package shippers

In reply to this post by K7TV

Don,

I, too have been through the procedure where I had to hand off the package
valued over $1000 to the driver rather than the store, and that was over a
year ago. The later case of the expensive amplifier was just a few months
ago, and it was at a "UPS store" that I understand not to be an "independent
shipping center". Of course, the particular employee may have misstated the
limit, or I may have misheard. Regardless, my main point is that the rule
was so rigid. The fact that the employee was able to examine the empty
packing materials and see that they were customized and in good contition
made no difference at all. Such rigidity must surely end up costing the
customer, and it is up to the customer to determine whether perceived
reliability of the company is worth the extra cost. Although I have shipped
many packages, I bow to your even greater experience. BTW, once I shipped a
small package in the same store, in a box that was a once-used USPS Priority
Mail box. The employee berated me for using that box since it was supposed
to be used only for purposes of USPS shipping. I believe he was correct in
that such a rule exists. It doesn't make sense for USPS to allow their
freely handed out boxes to be used with other shippers. However, after the
original USPS shipment had been paid for and completed, didn't I own the box
and didn't I do a good deed by reusing the box? The fact that the box had
been used previously for USPS shipping was plain to see.

73,
Erik K7TV

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don
Wilhelm
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 12:17 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: Package shippers

Erik and all,

I believe that amount is $1000 rather than the $100 that you quoted - unless
the particular packing store you used sets their own rules.
If you shipped at a UPS store, this new rule is unknown to me.

I do have a UPS account (but not regular pickup), and do not have a problem
with any package where the value is less than $1000.
If it is greater than that value, I can pack it, but I have to hand it off
to a UPS driver rather than dropping it off at a shipping center.
The driver is required to sign a form for my records, and he takes
responsibility for it from that time.

Independent shipping centers that ship UPS are free to set their own rules,
and yes, if I take a package to one of them for shipment and declare $1000
or greater value, they will insist on packaging it. That is fair, because
they share in responsibility for that parcel.

You learn those things after you have been shipping frequently for a while.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/26/2017 2:46 PM, Erik Basilier wrote:

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Erik Basilier [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 11:43 AM
> To: 'Rick Tavan' <[hidden email]>
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] OT: Package shippers
>
> In the past I have used UPS extensively, but recently they refused to
> ship my expensive tube amplifier, in its original packing materials,
> unless I would pay them to re-pack in their own, new packing
> materials. I was told that their new policy is that, unless the
> insured value is less than $100, the customer must pay for new packing

materials, provided and packed by UPS.
> Even before the extra packing expense, their price was much higher
> than FedEx.
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Jim Brown-10

Re: OT: Package shippers

In reply to this post by k6dgw

On Wed,4/26/2017 11:54 AM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> It cost a LOT more to ship an envelope at the FedX Store than it did
> when I took it to work and shipped it with a company label.

The easy fix for this is to go online to FedEx, generate the shipment,
print a shipping label, and drop it off at the FedEx store. No extra
cost. The same thing works for UPS. I also ship small stuff USPS. I
always pack in my own boxes (I save boxes and bubble wrap) and take them
to the local post office. Never any issues. There is a special place in
hell for those who ship with packing peanuts. I've opened boxes and had
them blow all over my property!

> Delivery to homes seems to be random. One package was left on top of
> a trash toter at the road. While it was badly banged up by the trash
> truck, it ended up in the road and not in the truck, fortunately.

I live on a main road in the Santa Cruz Mountains. My mailbox is one of
four adjacent to my driveway. I've not had this problem with UPS, FedEx,
or USPS, but I and many of my neighbors HAVE had this problem with
OnTrac. I've had their packages left outside in the rain, at the edge of
the road, in my driveway, sitting on the hood of my car. Neighbors have
had packages left at their mailbox, which in one case is nearly a mile
from their house. Many of us have told amazon to never use OnTrac, and
it's a reason that I haven't signed up for amazon prime.

As to delivery of UPS by USPS -- this business arrangement was
established (quite publicly) several years ago, and has worked fine for
me. I believe it's limited to UPS ground.

73, Jim K9YC

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Phil Kane-2

Re: OT: Package shippers

On 4/26/2017 3:28 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> As to delivery of UPS by USPS -- this business arrangement was
> established (quite publicly) several years ago, and has worked fine for
> me. I believe it's limited to UPS ground.

FedEx has th same arrangement. It's good business for the Postal Service.

I recently ordered something from "the auction site" where the merchant
was insistent on "we do not ship to Post Office Boxes". So I furnished
the street address, albeit reluctantly because we access the "mailbox"
only infrequently because of its location. What did the merchant to?
Sent it to that address by USPS!

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Rick Tavan-2

Re: OT: Package shippers

In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-2

Thanks, Lynn! That's a much more cogent explanation than I was able to
extract from either UPS or USPS the time it happened to me.

Ironically, that event ended up in my favor. Although I had to re-order my
goods with a different destination, the price dropped in the meantime and I
saved quite a lot of money. Not something one can count on, though!

73,

/Rick N6XI

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is a UPS "service" that has a lower service commitment and a lower
> price than "UPS Brown."
>
> It takes advantage of "consolidator" rates, with UPS delivering pre-sorted
> packages to a hub Post Office for final delivery.
>
> FedEx has a similar service.
>
> E-Commerce and mail order companies love these services because they're
> cheap, but the typical customer service agent doesn't know the difference
> between "UPS Brown" (delivery by UPS) and the cheaper UPS to USPS service.
>
> Since the agent (or the website) thinks they're shipping standard Ground,
> they insist on a "real" address. The company then uses the cheaper
> service, the package hits the post office and goes back to the shipper.
>
> I've had good luck with the work-arounds in your post. I usually put
> things like m/s 9999 in the "company" field because some shippers
> "standardize" addresses, and the company name is usually unedited.
>
> If you specify "UPS Brown" and the shipper follows instructions, you'll
> get the package from UPS, not through the Post Office.
>
> This cheaper service is only available to larger shippers. It's not
> available to consumers.
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
> On 4/26/2017 11:13 AM, Rick Tavan wrote:
>
>> The radio world seems to be converging on your opinion, Ken. Almost all
>> packages I've received in the past few years have come via UPS and I use
>> it
>> myself for my occasional outbound shipments. That being said, there is a
>> disturbing relationship between UPS and USPS: In some rural areas, and
>> maybe elsewhere, UPS can hand off a package for ultimate delivery by USPS.
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Alan Bloom

Re: OT: Package shippers

In reply to this post by Rick Tavan-2

I've had exactly the opposite experience than Ken - excellent, flawless
performance from FedEx and horrible experience with the post office.

The local post office claims to have found a rule that says that if your
house is more than 1/2 mile from the public highway, they don't have to
deliver packages. So to save the driver the 5 minutes it would take to
drive to my door, I have to make a more than 1-hour round trip to the
post office and stand in line to pick up my package.

When I order on-line I always try to get it shipped FexEx, even if it
costs more. Unfortunately Amazon doesn't give you the option to specify
the shipping company, so I have to have everything shipped to a friend's
house in case it comes by USPS.

Alan N1AL

On 04/26/2017 11:13 AM, Rick Tavan wrote:

> The radio world seems to be converging on your opinion, Ken. Almost all
> packages I've received in the past few years have come via UPS and I use it
> myself for my occasional outbound shipments. That being said, there is a
> disturbing relationship between UPS and USPS: In some rural areas, and
> maybe elsewhere, UPS can hand off a package for ultimate delivery by USPS.
> Seems reasonable except that the two providers have different conditions of
> carriage. UPS agrees to deliver to a home doorstep while USPS requires that
> a home have an official USPS mailbox which they use when able. If USPS
> delivers a package too large for the mailbox, then they will deliver to the
> doorstep. However, if there is no mailbox, USPS will not deliver any
> package of any size. They return the package to the sender, no notice to or
> recourse for the intended recipient. UPS and mail-order shippers don't
> disclose this occasional glitch (at least I've not seen it) so both
> shippers and recipients get screwed. Moral of the story: If you don't have
> a mailbox, don't order packages that will be shipped by UPS. Better, use
> someone else's delivery address that has a mailbox. If you have a PO box,
> some US Post Offices will accept courier packages addressed to their own
> street address with an appended box number. But the shipper must specify
> that street address because UPS will not deliver to a PO Box explicitly!
> Catch 22.
>
> 73,
>
> /Rick N6XI
>
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Ken G Kopp <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I suspect for each of us our view of shippers will vary widel.
>>
>> While certainly not a "large" shipper, Rose (Elecraft Covers)
>> ships a number of packages a week, with many going to
>> foreign destinations.
>>
>> She -always- ships via the USPS and mostly via Priority Mail.
>> In almost ten years she's had one package go astray, and
>> that was due to me typing a wrong ZIP code. A Priority Mail
>> package will reach any US destination in no more then three
>> days.
>>
>> FedEx is absolutely terrible! One fat envelope of legal papers
>> from our bank was left on the driveway, laying in two inches
>> of water. Another was tossed over a fence into the yard. Yet
>> another was dropped near the BACK door of the house. Didn't
>> find it until a trace was instituted for the "missing" delivery.
>>
>> When we order fabric, webbing, Velcro supplies, the vendor
>> is told in no uncertain terms if the order is sent vis FedEx it
>> will be the last one they get. A gawd awful company! (:-)
>>
>> FedEx problems may stem from their use of non-company
>> contract drivers in their trucks ... at least in this area.
>>
>> UPS is OK in our view ... all of Rose's orders are shipped via
>> UPS or the USPS.
>>
>> Trivia: A case shipped to Istanbul via USPS Airmail was
>> delivered in Turkey in -five- days!!
>>
>> FWIW ...
>>
>> 73!
>>
>> Ken - K0PP
>> [hidden email]
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>
>
>

Vic Rosenthal

Re: OT: Package shippers

In reply to this post by Ken G Kopp

The thing to keep in mind about international shipments is that UPS and FEDEX take the package all the way to its destination, including customs clearance, while USPS transfers it to the postal service of the destination country.
In my case, this means at least a month of extra time plus a degree of insecurity. UPS is much more costly, but if I were ordering something expensive or important, that is what I would request.

Vic 4X6GP

> On 26 Apr 2017, at 20:56, Ken G Kopp <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I suspect for each of us our view of shippers will vary widel.
>
> While certainly not a "large" shipper, Rose (Elecraft Covers)
> ships a number of packages a week, with many going to
> foreign destinations.
>
> She -always- ships via the USPS and mostly via Priority Mail.
> In almost ten years she's had one package go astray, and
> that was due to me typing a wrong ZIP code. A Priority Mail
> package will reach any US destination in no more then three
> days.
>
> FedEx is absolutely terrible! One fat envelope of legal papers
> from our bank was left on the driveway, laying in two inches
> of water. Another was tossed over a fence into the yard. Yet
> another was dropped near the BACK door of the house. Didn't
> find it until a trace was instituted for the "missing" delivery.
>
> When we order fabric, webbing, Velcro supplies, the vendor
> is told in no uncertain terms if the order is sent vis FedEx it
> will be the last one they get. A gawd awful company! (:-)
>
> FedEx problems may stem from their use of non-company
> contract drivers in their trucks ... at least in this area.
>
> UPS is OK in our view ... all of Rose's orders are shipped via
> UPS or the USPS.
>
> Trivia: A case shipped to Istanbul via USPS Airmail was
> delivered in Turkey in -five- days!!
>
> FWIW ...
>
> 73!
>
> Ken - K0PP
> [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________