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OT Power Strip suggestion.

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Gary Smith-2

OT Power Strip suggestion.

Between my radio equipment and even more
spent on high end stereo equipment, I'd
like to pick up the best power strips to
mitigate electrical damage. To wit,
something fried both my Klipsch Chorus
tweeters but left the mids & whoofers OK.
This likely spike could have taken out the
preamp or the amp, maybe the OLED TV so I
consider myself lucky.

So I'd like to get the best last line of
protection I can get. Local solutions are
at Best Buy but I'm figuring there's
something better than they sell there.

Suggestions?

Thanks & 73,

Gary,
KA1J
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ke9uw

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

These were always thought to be the best.

https://www.tripplite.com/isobar-8-outlet-surge-protector-12-ft-cord-3840-joules~ISOBAR8ULTRA

Chuck
[hidden email]

Amateur Radio, KE9UW
aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles
________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of Gary Smith [[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 1:05 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] OT Power Strip suggestion.

Between my radio equipment and even more
spent on high end stereo equipment, I'd
like to pick up the best power strips to
mitigate electrical damage. To wit,
something fried both my Klipsch Chorus
tweeters but left the mids & whoofers OK.
This likely spike could have taken out the
preamp or the amp, maybe the OLED TV so I
consider myself lucky.

So I'd like to get the best last line of
protection I can get. Local solutions are
at Best Buy but I'm figuring there's
something better than they sell there.

Suggestions?

Thanks & 73,

Gary,
KA1J
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Chuck, KE9UW

Jim Brown-10

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

Unfortunately, the most commonly "thought to be the best" surge
protectors often CAUSE destructive equipment failure. These devices use
MOVs to conduct the surge to the Green wire, and that ANY surge
protector that does that raises the voltage on the chassis of the
equipment to a VERY high level. When that equipment is connected to
equipment plugged into a different outlet, the DIFFERENCE in potential
between the two pieces of gear is very likely to fry circuitry in both
of them.

The ONLY safe place for MOV protection is at the service entrance -- the
"whole house protector." The only safe protection on a branch circuit
(that is, anywhere else) is a SERIES MODE protector. Series-mode
protectors store the surge in a big inductor, then slowly discharge them
after the surge has ended. They are widely used in pro audio systems,
which have many interconnections between equipment. That industry uses
protectors made by Surge-X; a company called Brick Wall is a competitor
that focuses on the home entertainment market. I use Surge-X units in by
home, office, and ham station.

I've done consulting work and technical writing for Surge-X, but I was
specifying their products for the large audio systems I designed at
least ten years before they hired me for technical writing and teaching
at industry trade shows. In other words, my recommendations are
professional, not based on a business relationship, and I haven't done
anything for them for about four years.

There are more detailed tutorials about this on my website.
I wrote http://k9yc.com/SurgeXPowerGround.pdf

The next two links are for a 4-hour tutorial workshop that Andy Benton
and I taught at Infocomm for 6-8 years.

Andy and I collaborated on
http://k9yc.com/InfoComm-PowerSystems2012.pdf
and the material on surge protection is Andy's work. There's nothing in
it that I disagree with.

This one is all mine. http://k9yc.com/InfoComm-Grounding2012.pdf

This slide deck focuses on our ham stations. It served as much of the
basis for N0AX's excellent ARRL book on the topic.
http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf

Bottom line -- proper grounding and bonding is FAR more important than
surge protectors. Good surge protection isn't cheap, but cheap surge
protection is more likely to CAUSE equipment failure than to protect
against it. If you don't want to spend the bucks, do the proper
grounding and bonding, which is, essentially, free. The "whole house"
units take care of strikes coming in on the power line, the branch
circuit units take care of what's picked up on wiring within the house.

The whole house protector I'm using is made by Joslyn. I didn't do
research to find it -- a fellow ham bought some at a good price and
offered them to me. It's a high quality unit.

73, Jim K9YC

On 2/20/2018 11:15 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
> These were always thought to be the best.
>
> https://www.tripplite.com/isobar-8-outlet-surge-protector-12-ft-cord-3840-joules~ISOBAR8ULTRA

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

Invest in a whole house surge protector. Sometimes called secondary
surge protector or arrestor.    It is installed at the breaker panel,
preferably by a licensed electrician. These are available at electrical
supply houses and big box hardware stores, Lowe's, Home Depot, Minnards
and such.    Usually cost about $25 to $45.

From lightning surge events, be sure all services, i.e. Cable,
Telephone, Electrical, and ham radio equipment grounds are ALL bonded
together outside of the house.    Single driven grounds, not bonded to
all others, are an invitation to trouble. Besides, it is a requirement
of NEC.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 2/21/2018 1:05 AM, Gary Smith wrote:

> Between my radio equipment and even more
> spent on high end stereo equipment, I'd
> like to pick up the best power strips to
> mitigate electrical damage. To wit,
> something fried both my Klipsch Chorus
> tweeters but left the mids & whoofers OK.
> This likely spike could have taken out the
> preamp or the amp, maybe the OLED TV so I
> consider myself lucky.
>
> So I'd like to get the best last line of
> protection I can get. Local solutions are
> at Best Buy but I'm figuring there's
> something better than they sell there.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Thanks & 73,
>
> Gary,
> KA1J
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Bob N3MNT

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

In keeping with the previous comments you may call your power company. I
have a whole house surge protector at the service entrance provided by power
company on a rental basis. it works pretty well as we have lot or surges
due to storms and above ground wiring. The best part is they also provide
insurance so that if the protector does not do its job, they will repair or
replace the damaged device. Had one stereo amp damaged and they paid to
have it replaced. You can also purchase a whole house protector yourself,
but you usually don't get the same level ( or any) insurance.

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Gil Drynan

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

I use an UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply)

gil
W7GIL

Mark Goldberg

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 1:41 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> The ONLY safe place for MOV protection is at the service entrance -- the
> "whole house protector." The only safe protection on a branch circuit
> (that is, anywhere else) is a SERIES MODE protector. Series-mode protectors
> store the surge in a big inductor, then slowly discharge them after the
> surge has ended. They are widely used in pro audio systems, which have many
> interconnections between equipment. That industry uses protectors made by
> Surge-X; a company called Brick Wall is a competitor that focuses on the
> home entertainment market. I use Surge-X units in by home, office, and ham
> station.
>

What about Zerosurge? They look to be the same technology, but cheaper.

73,

Mark
W7MLG
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Jim Brown-10

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

Don't know about their quality, but it's the right way to do it.

73, Jim K9YC

On 2/21/2018 7:02 AM, Mark Goldberg wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 1:41 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> The ONLY safe place for MOV protection is at the service entrance
> -- the "whole house protector." The only safe protection on a
> branch circuit (that is, anywhere else) is a SERIES MODE
> protector. Series-mode protectors store the surge in a big
> inductor, then slowly discharge them after the surge has ended.
> They are widely used in pro audio systems, which have many
> interconnections between equipment. That industry uses protectors
> made by Surge-X; a company called Brick Wall is a competitor that
> focuses on the home entertainment market. I use Surge-X units in
> by home, office, and ham station.
>
>
> What about Zerosurge? They look to be the same technology, but cheaper.

Bill Frantz

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

On 2/21/18 at 11:05 PM, [hidden email] (Gary Smith) wrote:

>Between my radio equipment and even more spent on high end
>stereo equipment, I'd like to pick up the best power strips to
>mitigate electrical damage. To wit, something fried both my
>Klipsch Chorus tweeters but left the mids & whoofers OK. This
>likely spike could have taken out the preamp or the amp, maybe
>the OLED TV so I consider myself lucky.

I remember back many years ago I lost the tweeters in my Advent
speakers, leaving the other drivers OK. The problem was RF
oscillation in the output stages of the amplifier. About 200 KHz
at 75 watts fried the tweeters. My failing memory tells me that
the filter inductor also fried open, and I rewound it, amazing
tech support at Advent.

73 Bill AE6JV

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | Government is not reason, it is not
eloquence, it is force; like
408-356-8506 | a fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful
master. Never for a
www.pwpconsult.com | moment should it be left to irresponsible
action. - Washington

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Gary Smith-2

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

Folks,

Thank you very much for your helpful
replies. I will have a whole house
protector installed. I need to review all
the links and companies you kindly
provided me with and make the purchase.

I have an older Staco Energy UPS I've
never used, bought it at Dayton a couple
years back. Weighs a ton from the lead
acid batteries inside, need to put another
plug on it, it comes with a 30 amp 120V
plug and the house wiring doesn't support
that. I need to find an owners manual for
it as well, looks like there is a USB port
involved & it didn't come with a manual.
After getting the whole house protector I
should probably attach this to the stereo.

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Between my radio equipment and even more
> spent on high end stereo equipment, I'd
> like to pick up the best power strips to
> mitigate electrical damage.
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Jim Brown-10

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

Virtually all UPS units include MOVs, so have all of the destructive
possibilities of MOV power strips. If you're going to use a UPS (and I
do), it should be plugged into a shunt-mode surge protector (SurgeX,
Zero Surge, or Brick wall).

73, Jim K9YC

On 2/22/2018 9:10 AM, Gary Smith wrote:

> I have an older Staco Energy UPS I've
> never used, bought it at Dayton a couple
> years back. Weighs a ton from the lead
> acid batteries inside, need to put another
> plug on it, it comes with a 30 amp 120V
> plug and the house wiring doesn't support
> that. I need to find an owners manual for
> it as well, looks like there is a USB port
> involved & it didn't come with a manual.
> After getting the whole house protector I
> should probably attach this to the stereo.

Dave Sublette-2

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

I have just had a most unfortunate experience with a UPS and when Gary said
he had an old UPS he was considering, I shuddered. As far as I know, older
UPS units overcharge the battery continuously. The best "problem" this
seems to cause is having to replace batteries every three years or so.

In my case, the battery not only was overcharged, but the UPS died in such
a fashion that the 117 AC was interrupted several times and that killed my
computer, which it was supposed to protect. I know the house current did
not flicker or drop during the time. It was strictly the UPS.

I have replaced it with a modern unit that has a selectable "float voltage"
for several types of backup batteries. In my case I selected a 100AH deep
cycle AGM construction unit. If the house supply goes down, it switches to
a 60 Hz inverter (pure sine wave) in 10 ms. It has a monitor panel that
shows me the condition of the battery.

Nothing is fool proof. But I hope that this more modern design can help me
avoid this sort of catastrophe in the future.

Just my 2 cents' worth.

73,

Dave, K4TO

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Virtually all UPS units include MOVs, so have all of the destructive
> possibilities of MOV power strips. If you're going to use a UPS (and I do),
> it should be plugged into a shunt-mode surge protector (SurgeX, Zero Surge,
> or Brick wall).
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 2/22/2018 9:10 AM, Gary Smith wrote:
>
>> I have an older Staco Energy UPS I've
>> never used, bought it at Dayton a couple
>> years back. Weighs a ton from the lead
>> acid batteries inside, need to put another
>> plug on it, it comes with a 30 amp 120V
>> plug and the house wiring doesn't support
>> that. I need to find an owners manual for
>> it as well, looks like there is a USB port
>> involved & it didn't come with a manual.
>> After getting the whole house protector I
>> should probably attach this to the stereo.
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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>

NK7Z

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

Did you pull the trigger on the insurance most of the UPS come with?

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 02/22/2018 11:41 AM, Dave Sublette wrote:

> I have just had a most unfortunate experience with a UPS and when Gary said
> he had an old UPS he was considering, I shuddered. As far as I know, older
> UPS units overcharge the battery continuously. The best "problem" this
> seems to cause is having to replace batteries every three years or so.
>
> In my case, the battery not only was overcharged, but the UPS died in such
> a fashion that the 117 AC was interrupted several times and that killed my
> computer, which it was supposed to protect. I know the house current did
> not flicker or drop during the time. It was strictly the UPS.
>
> I have replaced it with a modern unit that has a selectable "float voltage"
> for several types of backup batteries. In my case I selected a 100AH deep
> cycle AGM construction unit. If the house supply goes down, it switches to
> a 60 Hz inverter (pure sine wave) in 10 ms. It has a monitor panel that
> shows me the condition of the battery.
>
> Nothing is fool proof. But I hope that this more modern design can help me
> avoid this sort of catastrophe in the future.
>
> Just my 2 cents' worth.
>
> 73,
>
> Dave, K4TO
>
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Virtually all UPS units include MOVs, so have all of the destructive
>> possibilities of MOV power strips. If you're going to use a UPS (and I do),
>> it should be plugged into a shunt-mode surge protector (SurgeX, Zero Surge,
>> or Brick wall).
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> On 2/22/2018 9:10 AM, Gary Smith wrote:
>>
>>> I have an older Staco Energy UPS I've
>>> never used, bought it at Dayton a couple
>>> years back. Weighs a ton from the lead
>>> acid batteries inside, need to put another
>>> plug on it, it comes with a 30 amp 120V
>>> plug and the house wiring doesn't support
>>> that. I need to find an owners manual for
>>> it as well, looks like there is a USB port
>>> involved & it didn't come with a manual.
>>> After getting the whole house protector I
>>> should probably attach this to the stereo.
>>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

Gary Smith-2

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

In reply to this post by Dave Sublette-2

Gary Smith-2

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

Unfortunate that happened.

This is the UPS I bought at Dayton, it is
the USC-30001 3KVA version. Not exactly
ancient but they do mention Windows XP in
the documentation... After sitting two
years the batteries still are at 12.3V so
they seem good.

https://www.alliedelec.com/m/d/7d69ba74f4b
9fae0a183201909af4af8.pdf

73,

Gary
KA1J

> I have just had a most unfortunate
experience with a UPS and when Gary
> said he had an old UPS he was
considering, I shuddered. As far as I
> know, older UPS units overcharge the
battery continuously. The best
> "problem" this seems to cause is having
to replace batteries every
> three years or so.
>
>
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

Administrator

In reply to this post by NK7Z

Folks - Let's end the thread in the interest of relieving email overload for our
other readers. We're way past the OT posting limit.

Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 2/22/2018 11:55 AM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

> Did you pull the trigger on the insurance most of the UPS come with?
>
> 73s and thanks,
> Dave
> NK7Z
> https://www.nk7z.net
>
> On 02/22/2018 11:41 AM, Dave Sublette wrote:
>> I have just had a most unfortunate experience with a UPS and when Gary said
>> he had an old UPS he was considering, I shuddered. As far as I know, older
>> UPS units overcharge the battery continuously. The best "problem" this
>> seems to cause is having to replace batteries every three years or so.
>>
>> In my case, the battery not only was overcharged, but the UPS died in such
>> a fashion that the 117 AC was interrupted several times and that killed my
>> computer, which it was supposed to protect. I know the house current did
>> not flicker or drop during the time. It was strictly the UPS.
>>
>> I have replaced it with a modern unit that has a selectable "float voltage"
>> for several types of backup batteries. In my case I selected a 100AH deep
>> cycle AGM construction unit. If the house supply goes down, it switches to
>> a 60 Hz inverter (pure sine wave) in 10 ms. It has a monitor panel that
>> shows me the condition of the battery.
>>
>> Nothing is fool proof. But I hope that this more modern design can help me
>> avoid this sort of catastrophe in the future.
>>
>> Just my 2 cents' worth.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Dave, K4TO
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Virtually all UPS units include MOVs, so have all of the destructive
>>> possibilities of MOV power strips. If you're going to use a UPS (and I do),
>>> it should be plugged into a shunt-mode surge protector (SurgeX, Zero Surge,
>>> or Brick wall).
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>>
>>> On 2/22/2018 9:10 AM, Gary Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have an older Staco Energy UPS I've
>>>> never used, bought it at Dayton a couple
>>>> years back. Weighs a ton from the lead
>>>> acid batteries inside, need to put another
>>>> plug on it, it comes with a 30 amp 120V
>>>> plug and the house wiring doesn't support
>>>> that. I need to find an owners manual for
>>>> it as well, looks like there is a USB port
>>>> involved & it didn't come with a manual.
>>>> After getting the whole house protector I
>>>> should probably attach this to the stereo.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Jim Brown-10

Re: OT Power Strip suggestion.

In reply to this post by Dave Sublette-2

On 2/22/2018 11:41 AM, Dave Sublette wrote:
> I have just had a most unfortunate experience with a UPS and when Gary said
> he had an old UPS he was considering, I shuddered. As far as I know, older
> UPS units overcharge the battery continuously. The best "problem" this
> seems to cause is having to replace batteries every three years or so.

Or even sooner than that. By dumb luck, I bought a couple of CyberPower
units that do NOT have this serious design defect, AND which are also RF
quiet. The model I bought is the CP1500PFCLCD. It has RFI filtering and
meets FCC Part 15 Class B.

I'm guessing that I bought the first of these units 4-5 years ago, and
it's been protecting a big "old iron" Dell tower ever since. Run time
still seems quite good. I bought the second one a few years ago to keep
low power 120V shack gear running through the occasional power drops we
experience up here in the mountains. Both units are plugged into a
SurgeX box.

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