OT - Vertical Bug
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I just want to share a recent discovery with other Elecraft listers who
appreciate 'bug' keys. The following short video is a demo I made of my new vertical 'bug' compared to the more traditional ones. This vertical key is a fabulous slow speed performer and doesn't need a pipe wrench hanging off the forward end to slow down - it's naturally slower but dropping the weight brings it up to 35 WPM. Until recently I knew very little about vertical keys and pretty much concluded that with so little marketing going on, they must not be very good. GOSH, WAS I WRONG !! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5EU6wubkaE&feature=related 73, Stan WB2LQF ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Hi Ron, et al:
I have an old bug used by a friend who was an HF op for the MO Hwy Patrol. His Vibroplex runs nicely from about 18 WPM on up... BUT he (or someone else) modified the leaf spring by thinning it (vertically) as shown below: -----\___/----- _____/---\_____ This thinning reduced the 'springiness' to a level which allows for nice slow CW with the weights fully out, but nice response up to 40+ WPM with the weights fully in. 73, Tom N0SS At 04:01 PM 3/15/2011, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: >Thank you Stan. I've seen photographs of a vertical bug but I've never used >one. > >I also have a Vibroplex bug - a standard model that came to me in the 1990's >through an old friend's widow when he became a silent key. My regular bug is >an E.F. Johnson Speed-X. The Speed-X slows easily to 10 to 15 wpm using it's >nifty standard weight that has a finger grip clamp - just squeeze and slide, >let go and it's securely locked in its new position. > >I was surprised to find that the Vibroplex would not slow to less than about >25 wpm, even with two weights. My friend had been a commercial CW op both at >sea and at KPH in California so I knew he had to slow it down to under 15 >wpm to match the speed wanted by the other operator. Les accomplished that >with a common cable clamp secured to the pendulum. (See it at >http://www.radiomarine.org/gallery/show?keyword=kphhistory&panel=pab1_1#pab1 >_1 Scroll down to Les Burger and click on the image to enlarge it). You can >see the threaded shafts of the cable clamp sticking up through the crossbar. >It works great, but it's a very heavy feel. > >Talking with a number of OT Vibroplex owners whose bugs slowed down in into >the 15 WPM easily without special weights and comparing keys closely, we >discovered that Vibroplex made two different leaf springs for their key >pendulums back in the 1960's. One was much thicker with a higher vibration >frequency than the other. I've never been able to find out why they did >that. > >The sound and feel of a nice bug is, for me, just as basic to Ham radio as >stringing up antennas and melting solder on a new project ;-) > >73, > >Ron AC7AC > > > >-----Original Message----- > >I just want to share a recent discovery with other Elecraft listers who >appreciate 'bug' keys. > >The following short video is a demo I made of my new vertical 'bug' >compared to the more traditional ones. This vertical key is a fabulous >slow speed performer and doesn't need a pipe wrench hanging off the >forward end to slow down - it's naturally slower but dropping the weight >brings it up to 35 WPM. Until recently I knew very little about >vertical keys and pretty much concluded that with so little marketing >going on, they must not be very good. > >GOSH, WAS I WRONG !! > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5EU6wubkaE&feature=related > > >73, Stan WB2LQF > >______________________________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:[hidden email] > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by stan levandowski
I bought a Vibroplex original model from another ham who did not like it.
It was 1953 and I was a novice. I did not like it either. So I ground down the width of the spring. Then used 4 inches of copper tubing over the end and pinched to fit tight. Then I used a big fannestock clip with some big solder wrapped around it to vary the speed. It would send slow but also worked good at 35-40WPM. Wish I had a picture. I sold it 5Yrs ago. Yep we enjoyed the video clip of the three bugs. I have heard some bad sounding bugs lately. Either poorly adjusted or perhaps with heavy spring. ( OK it could be the operator) 73 George/W2BPI ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Tom Hammond-2
Hey, Tom lives!! Haven't heard you on the air in a month of Sundays.
At the coastal marine station, most of the OT's had Vibroplexes of various flavors, all very shiny and in velvet-lined wood carrying cases. They looked really cool to this 16 yr old. They all were very fast and all my crew mates used more or less ugly weight schemes to slow them down to the Company speed limit of 18WPM when in paid traffic. The extra weight gave them a really heavy feel and the more desirable rolling wrist motion ended up being more of a "slamming back and forth" motion. They tended to clatter a lot, and since we wore the cans forward for ear protection [inferior AGC?], I could hear the op next to me sending away. One guy, Walt, who beat up the 16-yr old less than the other guys, had something else ... McElroy? I can't remember but it was very smooth and nearly silent. He let me use it some and I really liked it. My J-36 was built by Lionel [there were many manufacturers of the J-36, it was sort of a generic nomenclature for semi-automatic "speed key"], it looked like it went ashore at Iwo Jima with the Marines, it easily ran at 9-10 WPM, it was more or less silent, and it cost me $5 at Surplus Sam's in downtown Los Angeles. While I did like "shiny," cheap also attracted me since all my earnings were going into my college account. I think a lot of the problems we hear on the air with folks using bugs is contact maintenance. In the video, he clearly had taken very good care of his keys and contact problems were not a problem. Keying my K2 or K3 with my Lionel J-36 works just fine. Given that all mechanical keys bounce, and I know I'm keying a CPU, they must have some good conditioning there. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011 - www.cqp.org On 3/15/2011 2:22 PM, Tom Hammond wrote: > I have an old bug used by a friend who was an HF op for the MO Hwy Patrol. > > His Vibroplex runs nicely from about 18 WPM on up... BUT he (or > someone else) modified the leaf spring by thinning it (vertically) as > shown below: > > -----\___/----- > > _____/---\_____ > > This thinning reduced the 'springiness' to a level which allows for > nice slow CW > with the weights fully out, but nice response up to 40+ WPM with the > weights fully in. > > 73, > > Tom N0SS > > > At 04:01 PM 3/15/2011, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: >> Thank you Stan. I've seen photographs of a vertical bug but I've never used >> one. >> >> I also have a Vibroplex bug - a standard model that came to me in the 1990's >> through an old friend's widow when he became a silent key. My regular bug is >> an E.F. Johnson Speed-X. The Speed-X slows easily to 10 to 15 wpm using it's >> nifty standard weight that has a finger grip clamp - just squeeze and slide, >> let go and it's securely locked in its new position. >> >> I was surprised to find that the Vibroplex would not slow to less than about >> 25 wpm, even with two weights. My friend had been a commercial CW op both at >> sea and at KPH in California so I knew he had to slow it down to under 15 >> wpm to match the speed wanted by the other operator. Les accomplished that >> with a common cable clamp secured to the pendulum. (See it at >> http://www.radiomarine.org/gallery/show?keyword=kphhistory&panel=pab1_1#pab1 >> _1 Scroll down to Les Burger and click on the image to enlarge it). You can >> see the threaded shafts of the cable clamp sticking up through the crossbar. >> It works great, but it's a very heavy feel. >> >> Talking with a number of OT Vibroplex owners whose bugs slowed down in into >> the 15 WPM easily without special weights and comparing keys closely, we >> discovered that Vibroplex made two different leaf springs for their key >> pendulums back in the 1960's. One was much thicker with a higher vibration >> frequency than the other. I've never been able to find out why they did >> that. >> >> The sound and feel of a nice bug is, for me, just as basic to Ham radio as >> stringing up antennas and melting solder on a new project ;-) >> >> 73, >> >> Ron AC7AC >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> I just want to share a recent discovery with other Elecraft listers who >> appreciate 'bug' keys. >> >> The following short video is a demo I made of my new vertical 'bug' >> compared to the more traditional ones. This vertical key is a fabulous >> slow speed performer and doesn't need a pipe wrench hanging off the >> forward end to slow down - it's naturally slower but dropping the weight >> brings it up to 35 WPM. Until recently I knew very little about >> vertical keys and pretty much concluded that with so little marketing >> going on, they must not be very good. >> >> GOSH, WAS I WRONG !! >> >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5EU6wubkaE&feature=related >> >> >> 73, Stan WB2LQF >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3508 - Release Date: 03/15/11 > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Some of you are old enough to remember that back in the mid 50s my "nemesis" in the old ARRL CD Parties was my fellow Western New Yorker, Keith, W2FEB. But Keith also gave me what is probably a collector's item for my old garden-variety Vibroplex bug -- a special weight.
I, too, had a Vibroplex that didn't like to go down low enough in speed to suit me. I, too, tried using _two_ of the standard Vibroplex weights, with unexciting results. I, too, tried wrapping turns of solder around the standard weight. Keith worked at a machine shop in Lockport, north of Buffalo. He designed and fabricated a special weight that was narrower than the the stock Vibroplex weight, but had a much larger diameter (and perhaps higher density, as well). His primary purpose in designing it was not the lower speed but, rather, the desire to be able to change speed without messing around with the knurled set screw on the normal weight. So he built into it a spring-loaded ball bearing that kept it in position on the shaft, yet allowed it to be slid farther in or out on the shaft with two fingers and a thumb (generally on the same hand). Really cool. (Kewl?) This is not totally off-topic, since I occasionally hook up my old Vibroplex with W2FEB's weight and try sending with a bug using the sidetone on my K3 with the VOX disabled. (I decline to comment on whether I'm keying my amplifier when I do that....) Bud, W2RU (ex-K2KIR) ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by AC7AC
Ron,
I enjoyed seeing the pictures of KPH and realized that Point Reyes is less than an hours drive away from us. Do you know if there is a museum there still ? If so I'll go check it out. Bob K6UJ On Mar 15, 2011, at 2:01 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > Thank you Stan. I've seen photographs of a vertical bug but I've never used > one. > > I also have a Vibroplex bug - a standard model that came to me in the 1990's > through an old friend's widow when he became a silent key. My regular bug is > an E.F. Johnson Speed-X. The Speed-X slows easily to 10 to 15 wpm using it's > nifty standard weight that has a finger grip clamp - just squeeze and slide, > let go and it's securely locked in its new position. > > I was surprised to find that the Vibroplex would not slow to less than about > 25 wpm, even with two weights. My friend had been a commercial CW op both at > sea and at KPH in California so I knew he had to slow it down to under 15 > wpm to match the speed wanted by the other operator. Les accomplished that > with a common cable clamp secured to the pendulum. (See it at > http://www.radiomarine.org/gallery/show?keyword=kphhistory&panel=pab1_1#pab1 > _1 Scroll down to Les Burger and click on the image to enlarge it). You can > see the threaded shafts of the cable clamp sticking up through the crossbar. > It works great, but it's a very heavy feel. > > Talking with a number of OT Vibroplex owners whose bugs slowed down in into > the 15 WPM easily without special weights and comparing keys closely, we > discovered that Vibroplex made two different leaf springs for their key > pendulums back in the 1960's. One was much thicker with a higher vibration > frequency than the other. I've never been able to find out why they did > that. > > The sound and feel of a nice bug is, for me, just as basic to Ham radio as > stringing up antennas and melting solder on a new project ;-) > > 73, > > Ron AC7AC > > > > -----Original Message----- > > I just want to share a recent discovery with other Elecraft listers who > appreciate 'bug' keys. > > The following short video is a demo I made of my new vertical 'bug' > compared to the more traditional ones. This vertical key is a fabulous > slow speed performer and doesn't need a pipe wrench hanging off the > forward end to slow down - it's naturally slower but dropping the weight > brings it up to 35 WPM. Until recently I knew very little about > vertical keys and pretty much concluded that with so little marketing > going on, they must not be very good. > > GOSH, WAS I WRONG !! > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5EU6wubkaE&feature=related > > > 73, Stan WB2LQF > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by stan levandowski
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: I think a lot of the problems we hear on the air with folks using bugs is contact maintenance. In the video, he clearly had taken very good care of his keys and contact problems were not a problem. Keying my K2 or K3 with my Lionel J-36 works just fine. Given that all mechanical keys bounce, and I know I'm keying a CPU, they must have some good conditioning there. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred, just for the record, if you look at my Youtube video you will see a little green box above my K2. That holds my "bug descratcher" from Jackson Harbor Press. It eliminates 'contact bounce' by chopping off the first 10 ms of each character keyed, and then adding 10 ms back on the end of each character. It only cost $9 and it works with bugs, straight keys, and 'swipers. Plus, it's got a solid state relay so I can safely key my tube rigs with it also. Of course, I still treat my contacts lcarefully and recently installed brand new ones in my Vibroplex. Not inexpensive but clearly worth the cost. More info at: http://wb9kzy.com/bugde.htm ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Bob K6UJ
Sat afternoons [NA times] on the published frequencies. You can find
them at www.radiomarine.org for KSM, and occasionally KPH ... same sites and transmitters. K6KPH guards 14050 Kc and 7050 Kc most of those times, depending on operator availability. It's fun to copy them on 426 Kc. They accept visitors, check the website. 73, Fred K6DGW JN Auburn CA On 3/15/2011 5:59 PM, Robert Harmon wrote: > Ron, > > I enjoyed seeing the pictures of KPH and realized that Point Reyes is > less than an hours drive away from us. Do you know if there is a museum there still ? > If so I'll go check it out. > > Bob > K6UJ > > > > > On Mar 15, 2011, at 2:01 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > >> Thank you Stan. I've seen photographs of a vertical bug but I've never used >> one. >> >> I also have a Vibroplex bug - a standard model that came to me in the 1990's >> through an old friend's widow when he became a silent key. My regular bug is >> an E.F. Johnson Speed-X. The Speed-X slows easily to 10 to 15 wpm using it's >> nifty standard weight that has a finger grip clamp - just squeeze and slide, >> let go and it's securely locked in its new position. >> >> I was surprised to find that the Vibroplex would not slow to less than about >> 25 wpm, even with two weights. My friend had been a commercial CW op both at >> sea and at KPH in California so I knew he had to slow it down to under 15 >> wpm to match the speed wanted by the other operator. Les accomplished that >> with a common cable clamp secured to the pendulum. (See it at >> http://www.radiomarine.org/gallery/show?keyword=kphhistory&panel=pab1_1#pab1 >> _1 Scroll down to Les Burger and click on the image to enlarge it). You can >> see the threaded shafts of the cable clamp sticking up through the crossbar. >> It works great, but it's a very heavy feel. >> >> Talking with a number of OT Vibroplex owners whose bugs slowed down in into >> the 15 WPM easily without special weights and comparing keys closely, we >> discovered that Vibroplex made two different leaf springs for their key >> pendulums back in the 1960's. One was much thicker with a higher vibration >> frequency than the other. I've never been able to find out why they did >> that. >> >> The sound and feel of a nice bug is, for me, just as basic to Ham radio as >> stringing up antennas and melting solder on a new project ;-) >> >> 73, >> >> Ron AC7AC >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> I just want to share a recent discovery with other Elecraft listers who >> appreciate 'bug' keys. >> >> The following short video is a demo I made of my new vertical 'bug' >> compared to the more traditional ones. This vertical key is a fabulous >> slow speed performer and doesn't need a pipe wrench hanging off the >> forward end to slow down - it's naturally slower but dropping the weight >> brings it up to 35 WPM. Until recently I knew very little about >> vertical keys and pretty much concluded that with so little marketing >> going on, they must not be very good. >> >> GOSH, WAS I WRONG !! >> >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5EU6wubkaE&feature=related >> >> >> 73, Stan WB2LQF >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3508 - Release Date: 03/15/11 > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by W2RU - Bud Hippisley
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In reply to this post by k6dgw
thanks Fred !
Bob K6UJ On Mar 15, 2011, at 7:08 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: > Sat afternoons [NA times] on the published frequencies. You can find > them at www.radiomarine.org for KSM, and occasionally KPH ... same sites > and transmitters. K6KPH guards 14050 Kc and 7050 Kc most of those > times, depending on operator availability. It's fun to copy them on 426 Kc. > > They accept visitors, check the website. > > 73, > > Fred K6DGW JN > Auburn CA > > On 3/15/2011 5:59 PM, Robert Harmon wrote: >> Ron, >> >> I enjoyed seeing the pictures of KPH and realized that Point Reyes is >> less than an hours drive away from us. Do you know if there is a museum there still ? >> If so I'll go check it out. >> >> Bob >> K6UJ >> >> >> >> >> On Mar 15, 2011, at 2:01 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: >> >>> Thank you Stan. I've seen photographs of a vertical bug but I've never used >>> one. >>> >>> I also have a Vibroplex bug - a standard model that came to me in the 1990's >>> through an old friend's widow when he became a silent key. My regular bug is >>> an E.F. Johnson Speed-X. The Speed-X slows easily to 10 to 15 wpm using it's >>> nifty standard weight that has a finger grip clamp - just squeeze and slide, >>> let go and it's securely locked in its new position. >>> >>> I was surprised to find that the Vibroplex would not slow to less than about >>> 25 wpm, even with two weights. My friend had been a commercial CW op both at >>> sea and at KPH in California so I knew he had to slow it down to under 15 >>> wpm to match the speed wanted by the other operator. Les accomplished that >>> with a common cable clamp secured to the pendulum. (See it at >>> http://www.radiomarine.org/gallery/show?keyword=kphhistory&panel=pab1_1#pab1 >>> _1 Scroll down to Les Burger and click on the image to enlarge it). You can >>> see the threaded shafts of the cable clamp sticking up through the crossbar. >>> It works great, but it's a very heavy feel. >>> >>> Talking with a number of OT Vibroplex owners whose bugs slowed down in into >>> the 15 WPM easily without special weights and comparing keys closely, we >>> discovered that Vibroplex made two different leaf springs for their key >>> pendulums back in the 1960's. One was much thicker with a higher vibration >>> frequency than the other. I've never been able to find out why they did >>> that. >>> >>> The sound and feel of a nice bug is, for me, just as basic to Ham radio as >>> stringing up antennas and melting solder on a new project ;-) >>> >>> 73, >>> >>> Ron AC7AC >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> I just want to share a recent discovery with other Elecraft listers who >>> appreciate 'bug' keys. >>> >>> The following short video is a demo I made of my new vertical 'bug' >>> compared to the more traditional ones. This vertical key is a fabulous >>> slow speed performer and doesn't need a pipe wrench hanging off the >>> forward end to slow down - it's naturally slower but dropping the weight >>> brings it up to 35 WPM. Until recently I knew very little about >>> vertical keys and pretty much concluded that with so little marketing >>> going on, they must not be very good. >>> >>> GOSH, WAS I WRONG !! >>> >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5EU6wubkaE&feature=related >>> >>> >>> 73, Stan WB2LQF >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3508 - Release Date: 03/15/11 >> >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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