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OT: WWV/WWVH Closure

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Rose

OT: WWV/WWVH Closure

Trivia ..

The last I knew the WWVB transmitter is a "repurposed" 100KW
LORAN C TX from the closed site in ND.

73!

K0PP

On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Charlie T <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yeah, I'd miss them, BUT, my little Elecraft hand-held XG3 sig gen is
> pretty
> handy for that too .
>
> Also, I don't believe funding for the 60kHz sig was ever at risk and THAT's
> what your (antique) watch uses.
>
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> On
> Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 11:53 AM
> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure
>
> Personal note....
>
> Ever since I home-brewed my first receiver when I was 15, I've used WWV at
> multiple frequencies as a source of reliable on-air test signals.
>
> My early receivers used simple direct-conversion schemes based on JFETs
> (remember the MPF102?). Get the details wrong, and you'd hear WWV whether
> you were tuned to it or not, thanks to what I now know was IP2 (AM
> breakthrough). Do it right, and you'd be rewarded with those undulating
> time-tones: minimalist, almost musical. Something Phillip Glass would pipe
> into his sensory-deprevation tank. Oh, and you could set your watch to it.
>
> These days I still tune into WWV to check VFO calibration, set clocks in
> the
> field, and get an approximation of the MUF (Maximum usable frequency). When
> propagation is good, even the 20.000000 MHz signal soars across the aether,
> a faithful and tireless chronological savant.
>
> Losing it would be a tragedy, but a nerdy one, not Greek.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR

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k6dgw

Re: OT: WWV/WWVH Closure

I doubt that. LORAN A and C were pulse systems with high peak power
[some LORAN C stations fed over a megawatt peak to the antenna], but the
average power was much lower. Before LORAN C's demise, a handful of
stations were fitted with Accufix transmitters by Megapulse Corporation
... no tubes, no oscillators, no amplifiers ... just a highly
technologically advanced spark gap transmitter.

The NIST description for WWVB is found at
<https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/radio-stations/wwvb>
Briefly, 2 transmitters feeding two capacity-loaded monopoles about 850
m apart. Combined fwd power is about 100 KW. One of the antennas was
originally used for WWVL on 20 KHz [decommissioned in the 70's].

There is some confusion regarding rumors of the demise of WWV/WWVH ...
and maybe WWVB:

1. Congress, not the White House, appropriates $$ to government
agencies. The House and Senate are said by an ARRL Director to have
passed their bills and they are now in or about to be in conference
committee. It appears they both appropriate substantially more than
NIST requested, and their numbers are moderately close so reconciliation
in conference is likely.

2. There is the internal NIST budgetary document that started all the
rumors.

3. NIST is planning a "Grand Celebration" for the 100th birthday of WWV
in Oct 2019 [presumably without a military parade]. WWV is said to be
the oldest continuously operating radio station in the US.

Confusing indeed. This could all be similar to the rumor rampant on the
I'net a decade or so ago about not flying between some dates in August
because the GPS Week Number was about to overflow its word length,
rolling over to zero, and airplanes would be falling out of the sky.
The Week Nr did overflow, but no airplanes are known to have plummeted
to Earth.

More Trivia: In the very early days of WWV, the time signals were in
Morse code. [I remember in the early 50's they were too, in Eastern
Time]. WWV also broadcast farm reports and news ... using Morse code.
I had no idea the wheat, corn, and soybean farmers of the day could
copy the code.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 8/20/2018 9:54 AM, Rose wrote:

> Trivia ..
>
> The last I knew the WWVB transmitter is a "repurposed" 100KW
> LORAN C TX from the closed site in ND.
>
> 73!
>
> K0PP
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Charlie T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I'd miss them, BUT, my little Elecraft hand-held XG3 sig gen is
>> pretty
>> handy for that too .
>>
>> Also, I don't believe funding for the 60kHz sig was ever at risk and THAT's
>> what your (antique) watch uses.
>>
>> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
>> On
>> Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 11:53 AM
>> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure
>>
>> Personal note....
>>
>> Ever since I home-brewed my first receiver when I was 15, I've used WWV at
>> multiple frequencies as a source of reliable on-air test signals.
>>
>> My early receivers used simple direct-conversion schemes based on JFETs
>> (remember the MPF102?). Get the details wrong, and you'd hear WWV whether
>> you were tuned to it or not, thanks to what I now know was IP2 (AM
>> breakthrough). Do it right, and you'd be rewarded with those undulating
>> time-tones: minimalist, almost musical. Something Phillip Glass would pipe
>> into his sensory-deprevation tank. Oh, and you could set your watch to it.
>>
>> These days I still tune into WWV to check VFO calibration, set clocks in
>> the
>> field, and get an approximation of the MUF (Maximum usable frequency). When
>> propagation is good, even the 20.000000 MHz signal soars across the aether,
>> a faithful and tireless chronological savant.
>>
>> Losing it would be a tragedy, but a nerdy one, not Greek.
>>
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned by E.F.A. Project and is believed to be clean.
>
>
>

Roger D Johnson

Re: OT: WWV/WWVH Closure

In reply to this post by Rose

Ah! LORAN C. I remember it well.

Roger CWO4, USCG (retired)

On 8/20/2018 12:54 PM, Rose wrote:
> Trivia ..
>
> The last I knew the WWVB transmitter is a "repurposed" 100KW
> LORAN C TX from the closed site in ND.
>
> 73!
>
> K0PP
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wayne burdick

Re: OT: WWV/WWVH Closure

Administrator

Hi Roger,

I spent most of my 4-year USCG career on LORAN-C related activities. 6 months ET school at Governor's Island, a year at the monitor station in Bermuda (yeah, that was tough) and finally two years at the engineering center in Wildwood, NJ (even tougher :)

I really despised the resolver/servo-driven LORAN receivers. But I did love the HP9825 "calculator" that the lieutenant installed early in my stay at Bermuda. This thing calibrated the entire U.S. east coast LORAN-C chain, entering phase corrections for atmospheric distortion automatically, replacing manual methods.

Of course the '9825 was too cool to be left to this menial task. So every night when I was on mid watch, I would stop the silly LORAN program, teach myself HPL, then write my own programs. I made the phase corrections manually at such times.

The lieutenant returned a few months later and was not pleased to see the apparent failure of his software. But meanwhile I'd become the local expert on the '9825, called upon to fix it when it broke, so he forgave me. He also recommended my transfer to the Wildwood engineering center at the end of my Bermuda year, which was an excellent result because one usually got rotated to the Aleutian Islands after being at a desired station.... Wildwood was great, too. Lots of fun R&D by day, partying by night.

By the way, this is ridiculously OT. My apologies in advance to Eric, who will now shut me down :)

Wayne

> On Aug 20, 2018, at 10:57 AM, Roger D Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Ah! LORAN C. I remember it well.
>
> Roger CWO4, USCG (retired)
>
>
> On 8/20/2018 12:54 PM, Rose wrote:
>> Trivia ..
>>
>> The last I knew the WWVB transmitter is a "repurposed" 100KW
>> LORAN C TX from the closed site in ND.
>>
>> 73!
>>
>> K0PP

Mike Maloney

Re: OT: WWV/WWVH Closure

In reply to this post by Roger D Johnson

Dual 35kW ERP synchronous transmitters and antennas for 70kW ERP at 60kHz. Short (for 5km wavelength!) 4x400 ft quad towers that support top hat. Center connected cable is main radiator. Hard to see getting 35kW ERP out of 100kW transmitter at 5000 meter wavelength for such a short stub antenna? Pattern coverage at night is amazing. Serious copper and currents in loading coil and ground grid! The AC station service transformer is 500KVA. Info from NIST web page. Interesting stuff.
Mike AC5P

On Monday, August 20, 2018 12:57 PM, Roger D Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ah! LORAN C. I remember it well.

Roger CWO4, USCG (retired)

On 8/20/2018 12:54 PM, Rose wrote:
> Trivia ..
>
> The last I knew the WWVB transmitter is a "repurposed" 100KW
> LORAN C TX from the closed site in ND.
>
> 73!
>
> K0PP
______________________________________________________________
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: OT: WWV/WWVH Closure

Administrator

Folks - please see my earlier post. The WWV thread has been closed.

73,
Eric
Moderator
/elecraft.com/

On 8/20/2018 11:41 AM, Mike Maloney wrote:

> Dual 35kW ERP synchronous transmitters and antennas for 70kW ERP at 60kHz. Short (for 5km wavelength!) 4x400 ft quad towers that support top hat. Center connected cable is main radiator. Hard to see getting 35kW ERP out of 100kW transmitter at 5000 meter wavelength for such a short stub antenna? Pattern coverage at night is amazing. Serious copper and currents in loading coil and ground grid! The AC station service transformer is 500KVA. Info from NIST web page. Interesting stuff.
> Mike AC5P
>
> On Monday, August 20, 2018 12:57 PM, Roger D Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Ah! LORAN C. I remember it well.
>
> Roger CWO4, USCG (retired)
>
>
> On 8/20/2018 12:54 PM, Rose wrote:
>> Trivia ..
>>
>> The last I knew the WWVB transmitter is a "repurposed" 100KW
>> LORAN C TX from the closed site in ND.
>>
>> 73!
>>
>> K0PP
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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