OT Wullenweber Array
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There is/was one in central Puerto Rico ... flew over it on
way to DX-pedition on Desecheo Island (KP5) a few years ago. 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP [hidden email] _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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You can also see the array without Google Earth by going to Google Maps,
entering "Anchorage", and then searching to the northeast of the city, in Elmendorf AFB. The satellite option has some impressive views when you zoom in. 73 de Jim, N2EY _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Ken Kopp-2
The manual is pretty intersting reading, at least for us techie types. The tall reflector must be a sight. Have to drive by next time I'm down in SD.
Wes _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Greetings all,
I believe there is still one at Misawa AFB in Japan as well. I was there in the early 70's as a voice intercept op --- Russian language The one in the Phillipines has been deactivated for decades I believe. Paul WD8OJL Fred posted "There used to be an elephant cage at Skaggs Is., northeast of the top of San Pablo Bay in the N. SF Bay area. It's gone now. There was also one at Clark AB in the Philippines in the mid-60's. Don't know what happened to it, but if it lasted after the US left Vietnam, it likely succumbed to Mt. Pinatubo. I don't think these things had a lot of gain, but they were broadband (most ELINT stuff is), and could feed multiple rx simultaneously. Broadband and gain in the same sentence is an oxymoron ... witness log-periodic arrays. Fred K6DGW" _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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While we're at it, I remember that an FRD-10 was in operation at NSGA
San Diego which we called the "Dinosaur Cage". That was eons ago, don't know if it still exists. Bob NW8L On 12/1/06, Paul Picking <[hidden email]> wrote: > Greetings all, > I believe there is still one at Misawa AFB in Japan as well. I was there in the early 70's as a voice intercept op --- Russian language > The one in the Phillipines has been deactivated for decades I believe. Paul WD8OJL > > > > Fred posted > > "There used to be an elephant cage at Skaggs Is., northeast of the top of > San Pablo Bay in the N. SF Bay area. It's gone now. There was also one > at Clark AB in the Philippines in the mid-60's. Don't know what > happened to it, but if it lasted after the US left Vietnam, it likely > succumbed to Mt. Pinatubo. I don't think these things had a lot of > gain, but they were broadband (most ELINT stuff is), and could feed > multiple rx simultaneously. Broadband and gain in the same sentence is > an oxymoron ... witness log-periodic arrays. > > Fred K6DGW" > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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While it's an impressive array, it's really just a directive receiving
antenna: a bunch of vertical monopoles more descriptively called a "circularly disposed antenna array" or CDAA. They are arranged in a circle with a reflective screen behind them so the direction of an arriving signal can be determined by the phase difference in the signal as it arrives at two or more monopoles facing generally in the right direction. Since even the US Military can't create a "magic" antenna that defies physics, the system has a limited bandwidth. To cover a large part of the HF spectrum, the system is actually three separate antenna arrays covering three adjacent frequency ranges. Since each system gets smaller as the frequency goes higher, the three systems "nest" one inside the other, which makes for a very complicated-looking layout but it's really just a simple ring of monopoles with a reflector behind each ring (one reflector serves on two bands so there's only two circular reflector screens). Unless you are trying to determine the direction from which a signal is arriving, it's not much better than most backyard verticals. FRD-10 is only a receiving antenna. Even if you used it for transmitting, it's still just basically a bunch of monopole verticals. It probably has a ground system most vertical owners would lust after. You can read the original US military technical manual here http://kahuna.sdsu.edu/~mechtron/PremRxPage/ref/wullenweber.pdf Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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So the military no longer needs HF direction finding or have they
replaced it with something smaller/better/cheaper? Well maybe not the latter. Bob W4ZY _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Bob Cunnings NW8L
On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:40:47 -0700, Bob Cunnings wrote:
>While we're at it, I remember that an FRD-10 was in operation at NSGA >San Diego which we called the "Dinosaur Cage". That was eons ago, >don't know if it still exists. Imperial Beach. AFAIK it's been gone for quite a while. When I first joined the FCC in the late Sixties, there were several such monitoring installations that were co-located with NSG facilities using their Type Ws. The straw that broke the camel's back was when we DFed the Appollo splashdowns to much greater accuracy than the Navy did, using the same antenna. Their plotting system was computerized. Ours was still the compass-and- string system dating from years before WW-II. This emvarrassed them no end and they were in no mood to renew the shared-use agreement when it ran out. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Ron D'Eau Claire-2
FRD-10 is only a receiving antenna. Even if you used it for transmitting,
it's still just basically a bunch of monopole verticals. It probably has a ground system most vertical owners would lust after. You can read the original US military technical manual here http://kahuna.sdsu.edu/~mechtron/PremRxPage/ref/wullenweber.pdf Ron AC7AC ============================================= I wonder if a good or any ground system is needed if the antenna is for receive only. Is a ground system just for efficiency or is it necessary for direction finding accuracy? Rick Dettinger K7MW _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2
If there's one thing the Navy do not like, it's being shown up by another
branch. I heard tell of a newbie secretary who typed up some minutes and put the attendees in alphabetical order. The Navy refused to attend the next meeting until they were at the top - it's probably an 'urban legend' but they like to be considered the 'senior service.' David G3UNA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Kane" <[hidden email]> To: "Bob Cunnings" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT Wullenweber Array > On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:40:47 -0700, Bob Cunnings wrote: > >>While we're at it, I remember that an FRD-10 was in operation at NSGA >>San Diego which we called the "Dinosaur Cage". That was eons ago, >>don't know if it still exists. > > Imperial Beach. AFAIK it's been gone for quite a while. When > I first joined the FCC in the late Sixties, there were several > such monitoring installations that were co-located with NSG > facilities using their Type Ws. > > The straw that broke the camel's back was when we DFed the > Appollo splashdowns to much greater accuracy than the Navy did, > using the same antenna. Their plotting system was computerized. > Ours was still the compass-and- string system dating from years > before WW-II. This emvarrassed them no end and they were in no > mood to renew the shared-use agreement when it ran out. > > -- > 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane > Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2
At 11:02 AM 2006-12-01, Phil Kane wrote:
>On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:40:47 -0700, Bob Cunnings wrote: > >While we're at it, I remember that an FRD-10 was in operation at NSGA > >San Diego which we called the "Dinosaur Cage". That was eons ago, > >don't know if it still exists. > > Imperial Beach. AFAIK it's been gone for quite a while. When > I first joined the FCC in the late Sixties, there were several > such monitoring installations that were co-located with NSG > facilities using their Type Ws. The huge array in Imperial Beach was still there when I passed it last month. It's hard to miss! http://googlesightseeing.com/maps?p=872&c=&t=k&hl=en&ll=32.593603,-117.129053&z=17 (The text on this page is confusing: the Navy Training Center referred to is in San Diego.) From http://www.nbc.navy.mil/index.asp?fuseaction=information.infoWhoWeAre The Silver Strand Training Complex, formerly known as the Naval Radio Receiving Facility, has become the premier training facility for the Navy's special forces. This facility is referred to locally as, the "elephant cage", which is the nickname of the large "Wollan Weber" circular antenna. The antenna area was used to provide primary communication links for the Navy's submarine community. Today this 450-acre facility provides an excellent training environment with waterborne approaches from both the Pacific Ocean and San Diego Bay sides. The city-like layout of the base also provides a realistic site for critical urban warfare training. So what if they can't spell the name of the array... 73, Terry N6RY Carlsbad, CA _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Ken Kopp-2
Ok, so who's using my name.... Bob Scott K3YT _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Terry Conboy
Nice picture but I notice on close up the shadows cast by the poles
shows the sun to be in a different place than the shadows case but the building, etc. Maybe I'm seeing this differently on my Mac. Heck the building looks a bit like a Norcal 40 from above. hi.. On Dec 1, 2006, at 12:16 PM, Terry Conboy wrote: > > > The huge array in Imperial Beach was still there when I passed it > last month. It's hard to miss! > http://googlesightseeing.com/maps? > p=872&c=&t=k&hl=en&ll=32.593603,-117.129053&z=17 > (The text on this page is confusing: the Navy Training Center > referred to is in San Diego.) Fernando Quinones N2FQ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Ron D'Eau Claire-2
Hi Ron thanks for the re-print of the manual. It is a lot more than just an antenna. It has a lot of electronics including computers of that era to measure the direction the signal is coming from. I bet the system cost a whole lot of money back then. And when you see that there is a building inside the third ring you get a feel for how big it is. We read a whole lot of other counties mail back there when all long range transmissions were on HF. During the Korean Police Action I was in the Navy and the Admiral aboard got his secret info by CW from Pearl Harbor. Of course anyone with this kind of antenna can intercept the message from the other side. As I recall the code we used was good for 30 days. I think NSA found that. 72 73 Karl K5DI Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > While it's an impressive array, it's really just a directive receiving > antenna: a bunch of vertical monopoles more descriptively called a > "circularly disposed antenna array" or CDAA. > You can read the original US military technical manual here > http://kahuna.sdsu.edu/~mechtron/PremRxPage/ref/wullenweber.pdf > > Ron AC7AC > > > > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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