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OT aluminum oxide

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Chuck Teague

OT aluminum oxide

Does anyone have experience freeing antenna parts that have seized with
aluminum oxide? I'm trying to free up the sections of a 32' boom for
transport. The sections are swaged 6" and penetrating oil doesn't seem to
be cutting it.
Please reply direct so as not to clutter up the reflector with a
non-Elecraft topic.

Thanks,

Chuck Teague
NN7U
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Chuck Teague
NN7U

Re: OT aluminum oxide

If anyone knows the answer to this one, I say it is not off topic. It is not
Elecraft, but it sure is ham radio. I have had some mixed results from heating
the outer tube with a propane torch, but it is by no means fool proof. The only
fool proof method that I know is to treat the joint before assembly and take it
apart every couple of years. I use to use grease mixed with graphite powder and
that worked very well, but our environmental friends have made it so that
finding graphite powder is difficult to impossible. There are various products
available now at high prices to do the job. After the fact is really tough and
sometimes a hack saw and a splice may be in order. These are not great answers,
but they are the best I can do after 50 years of fighting the problem.
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ

________________________________
From: 2Cents <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tue, October 19, 2010 11:38:28 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] OT aluminum oxide

Does anyone have experience freeing antenna parts that have seized with
aluminum oxide? I'm trying to free up the sections of a 32' boom for
transport. The sections are swaged 6" and penetrating oil doesn't seem to
be cutting it.
Please reply direct so as not to clutter up the reflector with a
non-Elecraft topic.

Thanks,

Chuck Teague
NN7U
______________________________________________________________
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K6LMP

Re: OT aluminum oxide

One possible solution would be to soak the "stuck" joints a solution of sodium hydroxide (lye, as in drain cleaner). There's a web site that discusses the chemical reaction and the ability of lye to dissolve existing layers of aluminum oxide. See:

http://www2.uni-siegen.de/~pci/versuche/english/v44-10.html

The site says, in part:

A layer of aluminum oxide previously formed by passive corrosion is dissolved by the addition of sodium hydroxide. For this reason, the reaction takes place at the beginning relatively slowly:

Al2O3 + 2 NaOH + 3 H2O ––––> 2 Na(+) + 2 [Al(OH)4](-)

I have never tried this myself, so I would want to test it on some scrap aluminum or a no-longer-used antenna, to be sure the lye doesn't eat away the pure metal as well as the aluminum oxide.

But it might be worth a try. Use protective goggles and gloves, etc. any time you're working with lye.

Lew K6LMP

On Oct 19, 2010, at 11:37 AM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:

> If anyone knows the answer to this one, I say it is not off topic. It is not
> Elecraft, but it sure is ham radio. I have had some mixed results from heating
> the outer tube with a propane torch, but it is by no means fool proof. The only
> fool proof method that I know is to treat the joint before assembly and take it
> apart every couple of years. I use to use grease mixed with graphite powder and
> that worked very well, but our environmental friends have made it so that
> finding graphite powder is difficult to impossible. There are various products
> available now at high prices to do the job. After the fact is really tough and
> sometimes a hack saw and a splice may be in order. These are not great answers,
> but they are the best I can do after 50 years of fighting the problem.
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ
>

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Rick Dettinger-3

Re: OT aluminum oxide

The lye definitely does eat away the pure aluminum, as I learned in my
miss spent youth! The fireballs were impressive, also, and we were
darn lucky. I think you would need to eat through the good metal just
to get to the oxide, which is on the inside. Heat would probably be
the best bet, and not from burning (exploding) hydrogen. The aluminum
we used for our "experiments" was obtained from old TV antennas in the
dumpster behind the local TV repair store. This was also the source
for our antenna wire. Old bundles of 300 ohm twin lead. We thought
it needed to be bare, since that was what it said in the handbook, so
we burnt the insulation off. What a mess!

73,
Rick Dettinger K7MW

> One possible solution would be to soak the "stuck" joints a solution
> of sodium hydroxide (lye, as in drain cleaner). There's a web site
> that discusses the chemical reaction and the ability of lye to
> dissolve existing layers of aluminum oxide. See:
>
> http://www2.uni-siegen.de/~pci/versuche/english/v44-10.html
>
> The site says, in part:
>
> A layer of aluminum oxide previously formed by passive corrosion is
> dissolved by the addition of sodium hydroxide. For this reason, the
> reaction takes place at the beginning relatively slowly:
>
> Al2O3 + 2 NaOH + 3 H2O ––––> 2 Na(+) + 2 [Al(OH)4](-)
>
> I have never tried this myself, so I would want to test it on some
> scrap aluminum or a no-longer-used antenna, to be sure the lye
> doesn't eat away the pure metal as well as the aluminum oxide.
>
> But it might be worth a try. Use protective goggles and gloves, etc.
> any time you're working with lye.
>
> Lew K6LMP
>

K2QI

Re: OT aluminum oxide

In reply to this post by Chuck Teague

Hi Chuck,

I usually have good results with Break Free and a mallet. I usually let the
solution soak for a bit then tap around until the tubes dislodge. YMMV
depending on how bad things have oxidized. I usually also put some
anti-seize around joints when putting things back.

James K2QI

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:38 PM, 2Cents <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Does anyone have experience freeing antenna parts that have seized with
> aluminum oxide? I'm trying to free up the sections of a 32' boom for
> transport. The sections are swaged 6" and penetrating oil doesn't seem to
> be cutting it.
> Please reply direct so as not to clutter up the reflector with a
> non-Elecraft topic.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chuck Teague
> NN7U
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--... ...-- -.. . .--- .- -- . ...

Re: OT aluminum oxide

What is Break Free? Where do you get it? Does it always work, on only
sometimes?
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ

________________________________
From: James Sarte <[hidden email]>
To: 2Cents <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Tue, October 19, 2010 3:35:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT aluminum oxide

Hi Chuck,

I usually have good results with Break Free and a mallet. I usually let the
solution soak for a bit then tap around until the tubes dislodge. YMMV
depending on how bad things have oxidized. I usually also put some
anti-seize around joints when putting things back.

James K2QI

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:38 PM, 2Cents <[hidden email]> wrote:

K2QI

Re: OT aluminum oxide

I might be mistaken with the name. I do recall using a product called Break
Free at one point in time, but a Google search reveals it to be used
primarily for firearms.

Try PB Blaster instead. I've used that stuff, and it works well if you let
it soak for a bit.

http://www.amazon.com/Blaster-16-PB-Penetrating-Catalyst-oz/dp/B000I2079E

73 de James K2QI

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 4:42 PM, WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What is Break Free? Where do you get it? Does it always work, on only
> sometimes?
>
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* James Sarte <[hidden email]>
> *To:* 2Cents <[hidden email]>
> *Cc:* [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Tue, October 19, 2010 3:35:01 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] OT aluminum oxide
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
> I usually have good results with Break Free and a mallet. I usually let
> the
> solution soak for a bit then tap around until the tubes dislodge. YMMV
> depending on how bad things have oxidized. I usually also put some
> anti-seize around joints when putting things back.
>
> James K2QI
>
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:38 PM, 2Cents <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have experience freeing antenna parts that have seized with
> > aluminum oxide? I'm trying to free up the sections of a 32' boom for
> > transport. The sections are swaged 6" and penetrating oil doesn't seem
> to
> > be cutting it.
> > Please reply direct so as not to clutter up the reflector with a
> > non-Elecraft topic.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Chuck Teague
> > NN7U
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
>
>
>
> --
> 73 de James K2QI
> President UNARC/4U1UN
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

--... ...-- -.. . .--- .- -- . ...

ussv dharma

Re: OT aluminum oxide

In reply to this post by Cookie

break free is available at hardward or auto parts stores

If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly where you're headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm AFA9SM USSV DHARMA

--- On Tue, 10/19/10, WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT aluminum oxide
> To: "James Sarte" <[hidden email]>, "2Cents" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 10:42 AM
> What is Break Free? Where do you
> get it? Does it always work, on only
> sometimes?
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: James Sarte <[hidden email]>
> To: 2Cents <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Sent: Tue, October 19, 2010 3:35:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT aluminum oxide
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
> I usually have good results with Break Free and a mallet.
> I usually let the
> solution soak for a bit then tap around until the tubes
> dislodge. YMMV
> depending on how bad things have oxidized. I usually also
> put some
> anti-seize around joints when putting things back.
>
> James K2QI
>
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:38 PM, 2Cents <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have experience freeing antenna parts that
> have seized with
> > aluminum oxide? I'm trying to free up the sections
> of a 32' boom for
> > transport. The sections are swaged 6" and
> penetrating oil doesn't seem to
> > be cutting it.
> > Please reply direct so as not to clutter up the
> reflector with a
> > non-Elecraft topic.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Chuck Teague
> > NN7U
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
>
>
>
> --
> 73 de James K2QI
> President UNARC/4U1UN
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Mel

Re: OT aluminum oxide

In reply to this post by Cookie

Also know as Penetrox A at your local electrical supply house.

Mel

________________________________
From: WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]>
To: James Sarte <[hidden email]>; 2Cents <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Tue, October 19, 2010 1:42:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT aluminum oxide

What is Break Free? Where do you get it? Does it always work, on only
sometimes?
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ

________________________________
From: James Sarte <[hidden email]>
To: 2Cents <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Tue, October 19, 2010 3:35:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT aluminum oxide

Hi Chuck,

I usually have good results with Break Free and a mallet. I usually let the
solution soak for a bit then tap around until the tubes dislodge. YMMV
depending on how bad things have oxidized. I usually also put some
anti-seize around joints when putting things back.

James K2QI

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:38 PM, 2Cents <[hidden email]> wrote:

--
73 de James K2QI
President UNARC/4U1UN
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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David Christ

Re: OT aluminum oxide

In reply to this post by Chuck Teague

I replied off list as per his request but as others are replying on
list I think I should get this out to the entire group. Lye
dissolves the aluminum. Ammonia is supposed to dissolve the oxide.

David

*****************************

This is the same thing as having an aluminum seatpost stuck in your
bicycle. Oil does nothing for this. Clean off all the oil and try
ammonia. That is a solution used by bicycle mechanics.

David

>Does anyone have experience freeing antenna parts that have seized with
>aluminum oxide? I'm trying to free up the sections of a 32' boom for
>transport. The sections are swaged 6" and penetrating oil doesn't seem to
>be cutting it.
>Please reply direct so as not to clutter up the reflector with a
>non-Elecraft topic.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Chuck Teague
>NN7U
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html