OT sort of. Charging Lithium Ion batteries

[David Christ]

I recently read that Lithium Ion batteries should be charged only to 80% unless you are going to need full capacity.  Supposedly makes them last longer.  

Anyone ever heard of this?

If true does this also apply to LiPO4 batteries?

David K0LUM

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[k6dgw]

My LiFePO4 charger has a charging program to stop at about 80% and I've
been told that they like that if you're going to store them for awhile. 
Don't know if that applies to Li Ion, there are a lot of lithium
chemistries these days.

73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 10/26/2019 1:17 PM, David Christ wrote:
> I recently read that Lithium Ion batteries should be charged only to 80% unless you are going to need full capacity.  Supposedly makes them last longer.
>
> Anyone ever heard of this?
>
> If true does this also apply to LiPO4 batteries?
>
> David K0LUM
>
>

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[Don Wilhelm]

I have Lithium batteries in my laptop, my KX2, my electric razor, a
tactical flashlight, and maybe some other things.  I use the dedicated
chargers for each of them.
I think the dedicated, automatic chargers fill the batteries to 100%, so
there must not be a lot of caution to only charge them to 80%.

I cannot speak to the battery life advantage of charging only to 80%,
but if you are charging them for storage, that may be a different matter.

If you are simply charging them for use, wait until the dedicated
charger displays a green light and be done with it.

If you are not using a dedicated charger, look up the battery
manufacturer's information for charging levels - they know their
batteries better than other sources.

Li-ion chemistry is different than LiFePO4, and the output voltage is
different.  What works for one may not apply to the other.  A similar
situation applies to Alkaline batteries vs. NiCad, and NiMH chemistries
which we are more familiar with.

Look to the battery manufacturer's information for the best source about
your particular battery.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/26/2019 5:33 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> My LiFePO4 charger has a charging program to stop at about 80% and I've
> been told that they like that if you're going to store them for awhile.
> Don't know if that applies to Li Ion, there are a lot of lithium
> chemistries these days.
>
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 10/26/2019 1:17 PM, David Christ wrote:
>> I recently read that Lithium Ion batteries should be charged only to
>> 80% unless you are going to need full capacity.  Supposedly makes them
>> last longer.
>>
>> Anyone ever heard of this?
>>
>> If true does this also apply to LiPO4 batteries?
>>
>> David K0LUM
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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[ktalbott]

Used lithium of various chemistry since they first appeared in RC market. Universal recommendation for long term storage is 80%. Otherwise, charge & discharge to recommended hi/low voltage by chemistry. Maximize the life of multi-cell packs with balanced charge.Ken ke4rgSent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S10+.
-------- Original message --------From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> Date: 10/26/19  6:39 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT sort of. Charging Lithium Ion batteries I have Lithium batteries in my laptop, my KX2, my electric razor, a tactical flashlight, and maybe some other things.  I use the dedicated chargers for each of them.I think the dedicated, automatic chargers fill the batteries to 100%, so there must not be a lot of caution to only charge them to 80%.I cannot speak to the battery life advantage of charging only to 80%, but if you are charging them for storage, that may be a different matter.If you are simply charging them for use, wait until the dedicated charger displays a green light and be done with it.If you are not using a dedicated charger, look up the battery manufacturer's information for charging levels - they know their batteries better than other sources.Li-ion chemistry is different than LiFePO4, and the output voltage is different.  What works for one may not apply to the other.  A similar situation applies to Alkaline batteries vs. NiCad, and NiMH chemistries which we are more familiar with.Look to the battery manufacturer's information for the best source about your particular battery.73,Don W3FPROn 10/26/2019 5:33 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:> My LiFePO4 charger has a charging program to stop at about 80% and I've > been told that they like that if you're going to store them for awhile. > Don't know if that applies to Li Ion, there are a lot of lithium > chemistries these days.> > 73,> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW> Sparks NV DM09dn> Washoe County> > On 10/26/2019 1:17 PM, David Christ wrote:>> I recently read that Lithium Ion batteries should be charged only to >> 80% unless you are going to need full capacity.  Supposedly makes them >> last longer.>>>> Anyone ever heard of this?>>>> If true does this also apply to LiPO4 batteries?>>>> David K0LUM>>>>> > ______________________________________________________________> Elecraft mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:[hidden email]> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> Message delivered to [e-mail]______________________________________________________________Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email] list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to [hidden email]
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[K9MA]

I think pretty much all Li-ion chemistries can be charged at constant
current to 80 percent, then at constant voltage. The last 20 percent
takes a long time. The charging is terminated when the current drops
below a certain limit in the constant voltage mode. This is mandatory:
they cannot be float charged like other types. I think all the Li-ion
charge controller chips do this.

See:

https://batteryuniversity.com/

73,
Scott K9MA

On 10/26/2019 17:39, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> I have Lithium batteries in my laptop, my KX2, my electric razor, a
> tactical flashlight, and maybe some other things.  I use the dedicated
> chargers for each of them.
> I think the dedicated, automatic chargers fill the batteries to 100%,
> so there must not be a lot of caution to only charge them to 80%.


--
Scott  K9MA

[hidden email]

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[Barry]

I've been driving a Tesla for almost 5 years and it runs on Lithium
batteries.  I've read some of the literature on Li battery use and chemistry
over the years from Tesla and elsewhere, including Jeffrey Dahn, PhD, of
Dalhousie University, who is the world expert on the subject.  Google his
name and you'll find a number of papers he's written.

The recommendation, for best life, is keep the charge between 20-80%.  If
storing for a while without use, 50% charge is best.  Tesla recommends only
charging to 100% immediately before starting a trip.  The biggest killer for
Li batteries is leaving them at 100% charge in a high heat environment (over
100F).

My car has a 85 kWh battery (roughly 7000 individual cells) and had a range
of 270 miles when I bought it almost 5 years ago.  I have adhered to the
recommendations and now, with about 55K miles on it, the max charge is 262
miles.  So about a 3% degradation - not bad!

It's a real shame that most device manufacturers don't tell you any of this,
especially with the trend of making batteris in cell phones, laptops, etc.,
not user-replaceable.

Barry W2UP



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[wc1m]

FWIW, iOS 13, Apple's latest version of the iPhone operating system, charges
the battery to 80% and holds it there. It's AI algorithm tries to figure out
when you're going to need the phone (i.e., will take it off the charger),
and tries to time the remaining charge to 100% for that event. Of course,
that won't work too well if you don't take your phone off the charger
roughly at the same time each day. Also, I've seen some differences in how
close it gets to 100% when charging wirelessly or wired -- i.e., it gets to
100% more often with wired charging. It's possible the AI doesn't take the
difference in charging speed into account.

73, Dick WC1M

-----Original Message-----
From: David Christ <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2019 4:18 PM
To: Elecraft List <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] OT sort of. Charging Lithium Ion batteries

I recently read that Lithium Ion batteries should be charged only to 80%
unless you are going to need full capacity.  Supposedly makes them last
longer.  

Anyone ever heard of this?

If true does this also apply to LiPO4 batteries?

David K0LUM



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