Off Topic - CME
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I know there are a lot of very smart people on this reflector and centuries of expertise and knowledge. So, that is why I have come here to this "august" body of technical experts.... CME or Coronal Mass Ejection. I know that these can happen very easily and now that the sun has become more active, I wonder what one can do to protect their electronics from harm during one of these events. I know the VHF guys would like to see these things ... but I have read that these things can cause havoc to electronics. So...how does one protect their K3/K2 etc from such and event? I know in the late 1800's there was a very strong CME and that hit the Earth which cause aurora down to Cuba and burnt up telegraph lines (I think those were #12 or #10 copper lines too). That was a very LARGE CME. Any sage words from the corporate brains on this list? Lee - K0WA In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? Common Sense is the image of the Creator expressing revealed truth in my mind. - John W. (Kansas) ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In my 55 years as a ham and 30 years as an EE I have never seen any such damage
or seen any documentation. I have seen a lot of lightning damage so all I see as prudent is to follow proper grounding practices. Those practices have been beat to death on this forum recently. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ ________________________________ From: Lee Buller <[hidden email]> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Sent: Wed, April 27, 2011 10:44:53 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Off Topic - CME I know there are a lot of very smart people on this reflector and centuries of expertise and knowledge. So, that is why I have come here to this "august" body of technical experts.... CME or Coronal Mass Ejection. I know that these can happen very easily and now that the sun has become more active, I wonder what one can do to protect their electronics from harm during one of these events. I know the VHF guys would like to see these things ... but I have read that these things can cause havoc to electronics. So...how does one protect their K3/K2 etc from such and event? I know in the late 1800's there was a very strong CME and that hit the Earth which cause aurora down to Cuba and burnt up telegraph lines (I think those were #12 or #10 copper lines too). That was a very LARGE CME. Any sage words from the corporate brains on this list? Lee - K0WA In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? Common Sense is the image of the Creator expressing revealed truth in my mind. - John W. (Kansas) ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: CME off reflector...not technical expert
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In reply to this post by k0wa@swbell.net
Lee...
There is a vague similarity between a CME and what the weapons people call an EMP (electromagnetic pulse) weapon. The major difference is that we are somewhat protected from solar events by our atmosphere, although in the case of the one you refer to in the late 1800s, enough got through to create havoc. The worst aspect of an EMP or a very strong CME is that the particles involved directly damage the semiconductors in electronics...about the only thing you can do as protection from a really strong event is to put heavy shielding around the gear. Think lead sheet or tinfoil hats, etc. An EMP weapon will produce sudden, very intense electric fields (lots of photons) which will induce current flow in conductors, roasting them. A CME is usually composed of particles (e.g. protons) not photons, so in this case, think ion-implantation technology used for doping semiconductors, except the "dopant" is from the sun, not from a machine. In addition to the protons that come from the sun's envelope, there will be secondary junk from our atmosphere...the same things that produce the reds and greens (oxygen and nitrogen) in an aurora. If a CME comes along with an electromagnetic disturbance, the latter will arrive at the speed of light, i.e. rather promptly, while the particles (the MASS in CME) will come along later. In recent events, it has been 24-48 hours for that stuff to get here. John Ragle -- W1ZI ===== On 4/27/2011 11:44 AM, Lee Buller wrote: > I know there are a lot of very smart people on this reflector and centuries of > expertise and knowledge. So, that is why I have come here to this "august" body > of technical experts.... > > CME or Coronal Mass Ejection. I know that these can happen very easily and now > that the sun has become more active, I wonder what one can do to protect their > electronics from harm during one of these events. I know the VHF guys would > like to see these things ... but I have read that these things can cause havoc > to electronics. > > So...how does one protect their K3/K2 etc from such and event? ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: CME off reflector...not technical expert
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EMP ....Take the time to read a very good novel .. One Second After. Great
reading. Philip LaMarche LaMarche Enterprises, Inc [hidden email] www.LaMarcheEnterprises.com 727-944-3226 727-937-8834 Fax 727-510-5038 Cell www.w9dvm.com K3 #1605 CCA 98-00827 CRA 1701 W9DVM -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John Ragle Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 12:10 PM To: Lee Buller; elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CME off reflector...not technical expert Lee... There is a vague similarity between a CME and what the weapons people call an EMP (electromagnetic pulse) weapon. The major difference is that we are somewhat protected from solar events by our atmosphere, although in the case of the one you refer to in the late 1800s, enough got through to create havoc. The worst aspect of an EMP or a very strong CME is that the particles involved directly damage the semiconductors in electronics...about the only thing you can do as protection from a really strong event is to put heavy shielding around the gear. Think lead sheet or tinfoil hats, etc. An EMP weapon will produce sudden, very intense electric fields (lots of photons) which will induce current flow in conductors, roasting them. A CME is usually composed of particles (e.g. protons) not photons, so in this case, think ion-implantation technology used for doping semiconductors, except the "dopant" is from the sun, not from a machine. In addition to the protons that come from the sun's envelope, there will be secondary junk from our atmosphere...the same things that produce the reds and greens (oxygen and nitrogen) in an aurora. If a CME comes along with an electromagnetic disturbance, the latter will arrive at the speed of light, i.e. rather promptly, while the particles (the MASS in CME) will come along later. In recent events, it has been 24-48 hours for that stuff to get here. John Ragle -- W1ZI ===== On 4/27/2011 11:44 AM, Lee Buller wrote: > I know there are a lot of very smart people on this reflector and > centuries of expertise and knowledge. So, that is why I have come > here to this "august" body of technical experts.... > > CME or Coronal Mass Ejection. I know that these can happen very > easily and now that the sun has become more active, I wonder what one > can do to protect their electronics from harm during one of these > events. I know the VHF guys would like to see these things ... but I > have read that these things can cause havoc to electronics. > > So...how does one protect their K3/K2 etc from such and event? ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by k0wa@swbell.net
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On 4/27/2011 9:33 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> The magnetic field disturbance that accompanies such events can cause > problems with systems that have hundreds of miles of wire strung on poles > (e.g. power transmission and telephone lines), but, AFAIK, it takes a huge > "antenna" like that to threaten terrestrial gear. I've been assured that is the case. I believe the "wavelength" of these disturbances is very large, thus taking a very large aperture "antenna" to intercept much energy. Hundred or thousand km transmission lines would be the ultimate Beverage antenna for them. > I know some satellites have been disrupted - even damaged - by magnetic > storms. If you mean the barrage of high speed particles that accompany the CME magnetic fields, that's true [says the retired systems engineer confidently]. Despite radiation hardened semiconductors, the particles do damage them. In general, satellites are not really affected by changing magnetic fields [except those whose mission is to measure or respond to the fields :-)] If the Z-component of the Earth's magnetic field is positive [i.e. North-pointing], it blocks a great deal of the particle flux. If it's negative when the solar poop arrives, most of it gets through, big auroras, high K, high A. Maybe it's the other way around, I can never remember, but one way is "door closed," and the other is "door open." In any case, I seriously doubt this is an issue for hams except that in a big storm, the bands close. The good news is, "CME's are short-lived, Cycle 24 will go on." SFI=108, A=1, K=1, SSN=57 right now. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011 - www.cqp.org ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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