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Overtighted Case Screw Removal?

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DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

Overtighted Case Screw Removal?

I recently upgraded my first run K3 and SN 822. 822 was fine, but
with #295, I had the same thing as you describe..several times. I
sure did not tighten them "that much" when I put it together!

Besides what Bill has contributed to your issue, I had to leave the 2D
in place and manage to remove all the other screws so that the block
came off with the side panel. I then used a traditional pliers to
undo the block. So like I said, no way I made it that tight
originally. Maybe it's an Elecraft feature...self-tightening screws?
LOL

So you may need to be a bit more creative than simply rocking the side
panel 30 degrees to loosen it up (or other panels). Worst case, you
can get one of the "backwards" drill bits (no, I don't know what they
are really called) and take it out that way. I did not need to do
that.

de Doug KR2Q
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kevinr@coho.net

Re: Overtighted Case Screw Removal?

Backward drill bit? Would that be an Easy Out?

Kevin. KD5ONS

On 11/13/2011 2:06 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:

> I recently upgraded my first run K3 and SN 822. 822 was fine, but
> with #295, I had the same thing as you describe..several times. I
> sure did not tighten them "that much" when I put it together!
>
> Besides what Bill has contributed to your issue, I had to leave the 2D
> in place and manage to remove all the other screws so that the block
> came off with the side panel. I then used a traditional pliers to
> undo the block. So like I said, no way I made it that tight
> originally. Maybe it's an Elecraft feature...self-tightening screws?
> LOL
>
> So you may need to be a bit more creative than simply rocking the side
> panel 30 degrees to loosen it up (or other panels). Worst case, you
> can get one of the "backwards" drill bits (no, I don't know what they
> are really called) and take it out that way. I did not need to do
> that.
>
> de Doug KR2Q
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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>

George Dubovsky

Re: Overtighted Case Screw Removal?

No, there are actually left-hand drill bits for certain specialty
operations. This would be one of them ;-)

I can testify that left-hand drills and left-hand taps should be securely
locked up in the shop lest they vex the unwary - hehe.

73,

geo - n4ua

On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 5:44 PM, kevinr <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Backward drill bit? Would that be an Easy Out?
>
> Kevin. KD5ONS
>
>
> On 11/13/2011 2:06 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:
> > I recently upgraded my first run K3 and SN 822. 822 was fine, but
> > with #295, I had the same thing as you describe..several times. I
> > sure did not tighten them "that much" when I put it together!
> >
> > Besides what Bill has contributed to your issue, I had to leave the 2D
> > in place and manage to remove all the other screws so that the block
> > came off with the side panel. I then used a traditional pliers to
> > undo the block. So like I said, no way I made it that tight
> > originally. Maybe it's an Elecraft feature...self-tightening screws?
> > LOL
> >
> > So you may need to be a bit more creative than simply rocking the side
> > panel 30 degrees to loosen it up (or other panels). Worst case, you
> > can get one of the "backwards" drill bits (no, I don't know what they
> > are really called) and take it out that way. I did not need to do
> > that.
> >
> > de Doug KR2Q
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>

Phil Kane-2

Re: Overtighted Case Screw Removal?

In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

On 11/13/2011 2:06 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBACK wrote:

> So you may need to be a bit more creative than simply rocking the side
> panel 30 degrees to loosen it up (or other panels). Worst case, you
> can get one of the "backwards" drill bits (no, I don't know what they
> are really called) and take it out that way. I did not need to do
> that.

It's called an "Easy-Out" and it's a rather brute force
procedure, drilling and tapping a pilot hole in the screw. I
hate to do that in any screw smaller than 1/4 inch diameter!

If the problem is that there isn't enough torque to loosen the
screw and the screwdriver rides out of the groove(s), there are
compounds (one brand is "Gitta Grip"), a paste that when
applied in very small quantities to the tip of the screwdriver
will keep it in the groove(s) and permit more torque to be
applied to loosen a reluctant screw. A small container goes a
very long way. Search for it on the 'web - it's hard to find
at retail.

-- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402

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w0mu

Re: Overtighted Case Screw Removal?

In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

EZ outs?

Mike W0MU

J6M CQ WW DX CW Contest 2011
J6/W0MU November 21 - December 1 2011
W0MU-1 CC Cluster w0mu.net

On 11/13/2011 3:06 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Overtighted Case Screw Removal?

In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

I would like to add 2 things. First, a worn screwdriver tip can strip
out the screwhead - if there is any doubt and the corners of the tip
look at all shiny, buy a new one - of course, after the screwhead is
stripped, it is like closing the barn door after the horse got out. I
replace the #1 phillips screwdriver at my workbench every 3 or 4
months. Once the edges get rounded, there is danger of stripping out
the screwhead. When buying a new screwdriver, get a good one, bargain
tools will cause you headaches in the long run.

Secondly, this is a potential problem with steel screws binding in
aluminum - it is also temperature dependent - aluminum and steel do not
expand at the same rate. A tiny drop of oil on the screw threads when
inserting the screw will prevent future occurrences, and often a drop of
oil around the screw head and a half hour of patience while it seeps in
will allow the screw to be removed.

That is just my experience of working with screws accumulated over the
past 50 years.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/13/2011 5:06 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:
> Besides what Bill has contributed to your issue, I had to leave the 2D
> in place and manage to remove all the other screws so that the block
> came off with the side panel. I then used a traditional pliers to
> undo the block. So like I said, no way I made it that tight
> originally. Maybe it's an Elecraft feature...self-tightening screws?
> LOL
>
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Bob K6UJ

Re: Overtighted Case Screw Removal?

I agree on the (phillips) screwdriver tips. They sneak up on you and you don't realize that they are rounded
off. What I have done for another alternate is to take a dremmel cut off disc, the thinnest one and carefully cut a tiny
groove across the head of the screw after first sticking down two small strips of duct tape on both sides of the screw for protection.
Just a tiny slot is all that is needed, then take a flat blade screwdriver and try to back it out. First I (gently) tap the screwdriver head with
a small hammer (gently) this helps loosen the interface between the steel screw thread and the aluminum.
If you have a new phillips screwdriver you might try the (gentle) tap then turn approach first and see what happens.
Good luck, I know it is frustrating !
Thumbs up on the drop of oil on the screw threads too !!!

Bob
K6UJ

On Nov 13, 2011, at 6:15 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> I would like to add 2 things. First, a worn screwdriver tip can strip
> out the screwhead - if there is any doubt and the corners of the tip
> look at all shiny, buy a new one - of course, after the screwhead is
> stripped, it is like closing the barn door after the horse got out. I
> replace the #1 phillips screwdriver at my workbench every 3 or 4
> months. Once the edges get rounded, there is danger of stripping out
> the screwhead. When buying a new screwdriver, get a good one, bargain
> tools will cause you headaches in the long run.
>
> Secondly, this is a potential problem with steel screws binding in
> aluminum - it is also temperature dependent - aluminum and steel do not
> expand at the same rate. A tiny drop of oil on the screw threads when
> inserting the screw will prevent future occurrences, and often a drop of
> oil around the screw head and a half hour of patience while it seeps in
> will allow the screw to be removed.
>
> That is just my experience of working with screws accumulated over the
> past 50 years.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 11/13/2011 5:06 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:
>> Besides what Bill has contributed to your issue, I had to leave the 2D
>> in place and manage to remove all the other screws so that the block
>> came off with the side panel. I then used a traditional pliers to
>> undo the block. So like I said, no way I made it that tight
>> originally. Maybe it's an Elecraft feature...self-tightening screws?
>> LOL
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

R Thompson

Re: Overtighted Case Screw Removal?

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Rapid cooling of the screw may also help. You don't need to go out and
buy some freeze spray if you have a can of dry air aerosol dust remover.
Turn the can upside down, using an extender tip that often comes with
contact cleaner or aerosol lubricants, and try to limit the spray to the
screw. Turned upside down the can releases the liquid propellent which
is about as good as freeze spray.

Ron VE8RT

On Sun, 2011-11-13 at 21:15 -0500, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> I would like to add 2 things. First, a worn screwdriver tip can strip
> out the screwhead - if there is any doubt and the corners of the tip
> look at all shiny, buy a new one - of course, after the screwhead is
> stripped, it is like closing the barn door after the horse got out. I
> replace the #1 phillips screwdriver at my workbench every 3 or 4
> months. Once the edges get rounded, there is danger of stripping out
> the screwhead. When buying a new screwdriver, get a good one, bargain
> tools will cause you headaches in the long run.
>
> Secondly, this is a potential problem with steel screws binding in
> aluminum - it is also temperature dependent - aluminum and steel do not
> expand at the same rate. A tiny drop of oil on the screw threads when
> inserting the screw will prevent future occurrences, and often a drop of
> oil around the screw head and a half hour of patience while it seeps in
> will allow the screw to be removed.
>
> That is just my experience of working with screws accumulated over the
> past 50 years.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 11/13/2011 5:06 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:
> > Besides what Bill has contributed to your issue, I had to leave the 2D
> > in place and manage to remove all the other screws so that the block
> > came off with the side panel. I then used a traditional pliers to
> > undo the block. So like I said, no way I made it that tight
> > originally. Maybe it's an Elecraft feature...self-tightening screws?
> > LOL
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

jwkimball

Re: Overtighted Case Screw Removal?

In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

I've found a little dab of valve grinding compound on the screwdriver tip
works wonders working on aircraft parts.

Jim
K5AUP

In a message dated 11/13/2011 9:37:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:

I agree on the (phillips) screwdriver tips. They sneak up on you and you
don't realize that they are rounded
off. What I have done for another alternate is to take a dremmel cut off
disc, the thinnest one and carefully cut a tiny
groove across the head of the screw after first sticking down two small
strips of duct tape on both sides of the screw for protection.
Just a tiny slot is all that is needed, then take a flat blade screwdriver
and try to back it out. First I (gently) tap the screwdriver head with
a small hammer (gently) this helps loosen the interface between the steel
screw thread and the aluminum.
If you have a new phillips screwdriver you might try the (gentle) tap then
turn approach first and see what happens.
Good luck, I know it is frustrating !
Thumbs up on the drop of oil on the screw threads too !!!

Bob
K6UJ

On Nov 13, 2011, at 6:15 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

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w8fn

Re: Overtighted Case Screw Removal?

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Another almost miraculous chemical fix for such problems is to get your
hands on a can of Kano Kroil. (See details at http://www.kanolabs.com/).
This stuff is flat-out unbelievable. I used it for many years to loosen
stubbornly rusted and/or galled antenna hardware and it never failed to
do the job. It used to be hard for "civilians" to get, but my dad was a
maintenance mechanic at an Alcoa Aluminum rolling mill and he got me a
can or three. That was around 30 years ago, and I still have most of one
can left. I see now that you can buy it directly from the company's web
site. It ain't cheap, but it's the best thing going.

73...
Randy, W8FN

> Secondly, this is a potential problem with steel screws binding in
> aluminum - it is also temperature dependent - aluminum and steel do not
> expand at the same rate. A tiny drop of oil on the screw threads when
> inserting the screw will prevent future occurrences, and often a drop of
> oil around the screw head and a half hour of patience while it seeps in
> will allow the screw to be removed.
______________________________________________________________
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R Thompson

Re: Overtighted Case Screw Removal?

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

While I'm at it, here are a couple of tricks used by aviation mechanics.

Using a good screwdriver tip, dip it spark plug cleaner abrasive, then
try it on the screwhead.

OK, so you don't keep a stock of spark plug cleaner abrasive, another
trick is to use a very small amount of crazy glue on the screwdriver tip
and cement the tip to the screw.

One that works for me with small screws, but it has a higher risk of
damaging something if it slips off. And wear eye protection, most of
the times my flush cutters failed they sent the broken blade flying as a
projectile. I put one blade of the flush cutter in the centre of the
screw and grip the outside edge of the screw with the other blade and
getting started backing out.

Another risky approach, again eye protection is recommended, if you have
a small enough chisel, then with light taps from a light ball peen
hammer drive the chisel into one edge of the screw counter clockwise
enough to loosen it.

Lastly, and only if you have good eyes, an excellent sense of having the
drill bit square to the screw, and a steady hand, you could drill out
the centre of the screw and remove the remains. In cases where the
screw bottomed out onto something solid and nothing else worked, this
usually does. There is very very high risk of drilling off square
though and damaging the original threads.

Ron VE8RT

On Sun, 2011-11-13 at 21:15 -0500, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> I would like to add 2 things. First, a worn screwdriver tip can strip
> out the screwhead - if there is any doubt and the corners of the tip
> look at all shiny, buy a new one - of course, after the screwhead is
> stripped, it is like closing the barn door after the horse got out. I
> replace the #1 phillips screwdriver at my workbench every 3 or 4
> months. Once the edges get rounded, there is danger of stripping out
> the screwhead. When buying a new screwdriver, get a good one, bargain
> tools will cause you headaches in the long run.
>
> Secondly, this is a potential problem with steel screws binding in
> aluminum - it is also temperature dependent - aluminum and steel do not
> expand at the same rate. A tiny drop of oil on the screw threads when
> inserting the screw will prevent future occurrences, and often a drop of
> oil around the screw head and a half hour of patience while it seeps in
> will allow the screw to be removed.
>
> That is just my experience of working with screws accumulated over the
> past 50 years.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 11/13/2011 5:06 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:
> > Besides what Bill has contributed to your issue, I had to leave the 2D
> > in place and manage to remove all the other screws so that the block
> > came off with the side panel. I then used a traditional pliers to
> > undo the block. So like I said, no way I made it that tight
> > originally. Maybe it's an Elecraft feature...self-tightening screws?
> > LOL
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Matt Zilmer

Re: Overtighted Case Screw Removal?

If it's tight enough to require this much intervention and
compenstion, just drill off all of the screw heads and replace the 2-D
block and the countersunk screws. Don't panic.

You're not dealing with a relic, it's a modern ham rig. Any part(s)
can be replaced easily, and Elecraft support for problems like this is
excellent.

After this much discussion I have little doubt Elecraft tech support
would not send the replacement parts to you gratis in an envelope
pretty quick-quick. They almost always do this. It is Their Way.

73,
matt W6NIA

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 19:50:27 -0700, you wrote:

>While I'm at it, here are a couple of tricks used by aviation mechanics.
>
>Using a good screwdriver tip, dip it spark plug cleaner abrasive, then
>try it on the screwhead.
>
>OK, so you don't keep a stock of spark plug cleaner abrasive, another
>trick is to use a very small amount of crazy glue on the screwdriver tip
>and cement the tip to the screw.
>
>One that works for me with small screws, but it has a higher risk of
>damaging something if it slips off. And wear eye protection, most of
>the times my flush cutters failed they sent the broken blade flying as a
>projectile. I put one blade of the flush cutter in the centre of the
>screw and grip the outside edge of the screw with the other blade and
>getting started backing out.
>
>Another risky approach, again eye protection is recommended, if you have
>a small enough chisel, then with light taps from a light ball peen
>hammer drive the chisel into one edge of the screw counter clockwise
>enough to loosen it.
>
>Lastly, and only if you have good eyes, an excellent sense of having the
>drill bit square to the screw, and a steady hand, you could drill out
>the centre of the screw and remove the remains. In cases where the
>screw bottomed out onto something solid and nothing else worked, this
>usually does. There is very very high risk of drilling off square
>though and damaging the original threads.
>
> Ron VE8RT
>
>
>
>On Sun, 2011-11-13 at 21:15 -0500, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> I would like to add 2 things. First, a worn screwdriver tip can strip
>> out the screwhead - if there is any doubt and the corners of the tip
>> look at all shiny, buy a new one - of course, after the screwhead is
>> stripped, it is like closing the barn door after the horse got out. I
>> replace the #1 phillips screwdriver at my workbench every 3 or 4
>> months. Once the edges get rounded, there is danger of stripping out
>> the screwhead. When buying a new screwdriver, get a good one, bargain
>> tools will cause you headaches in the long run.
>>
>> Secondly, this is a potential problem with steel screws binding in
>> aluminum - it is also temperature dependent - aluminum and steel do not
>> expand at the same rate. A tiny drop of oil on the screw threads when
>> inserting the screw will prevent future occurrences, and often a drop of
>> oil around the screw head and a half hour of patience while it seeps in
>> will allow the screw to be removed.
>>
>> That is just my experience of working with screws accumulated over the
>> past 50 years.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 11/13/2011 5:06 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:
>> > Besides what Bill has contributed to your issue, I had to leave the 2D
>> > in place and manage to remove all the other screws so that the block
>> > came off with the side panel. I then used a traditional pliers to
>> > undo the block. So like I said, no way I made it that tight
>> > originally. Maybe it's an Elecraft feature...self-tightening screws?
>> > LOL
>> >
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Bill K9YEQ

Re: Overtightened Case Screw Removal?

In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL

And one last suggestion if you haven't already removed the screw... if you
have the outer edges of the screw head intact as your screw driver was
undersized then go with a new screw driver of a larger size and that could
also solve the problem. I read all the other suggestions... wow, everything
I have ever tried! Got to love this thread if you never ran into a problem
before.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 8:15 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Overtighted Case Screw Removal?

I would like to add 2 things. First, a worn screwdriver tip can strip out
the screwhead - if there is any doubt and the corners of the tip look at all
shiny, buy a new one - of course, after the screwhead is stripped, it is
like closing the barn door after the horse got out. I replace the #1
phillips screwdriver at my workbench every 3 or 4 months. Once the edges
get rounded, there is danger of stripping out the screwhead. When buying a
new screwdriver, get a good one, bargain tools will cause you headaches in
the long run.

Secondly, this is a potential problem with steel screws binding in aluminum
- it is also temperature dependent - aluminum and steel do not expand at the
same rate. A tiny drop of oil on the screw threads when inserting the screw
will prevent future occurrences, and often a drop of oil around the screw
head and a half hour of patience while it seeps in will allow the screw to
be removed.

That is just my experience of working with screws accumulated over the past
50 years.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/13/2011 5:06 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:
> Besides what Bill has contributed to your issue, I had to leave the 2D
> in place and manage to remove all the other screws so that the block
> came off with the side panel. I then used a traditional pliers to
> undo the block. So like I said, no way I made it that tight
> originally. Maybe it's an Elecraft feature...self-tightening screws?
> LOL
>
______________________________________________________________
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