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P3 Cursor Position

Phil Hystad-3
Regarding the P3, I am a little confused about the cursor position.  For VFO A, I understand this to be the Cyan colored U bracket like thing at the center bottom of the spectrum display.

Last night I was playing around with how this is affected by filter width and also passband shifting.  Now, I believe that when I had the passband shift in the normal position with a 2.8 KHz filter width that my LSB signal showed the Cyan cursor being lined up right on the center frequency with the right side of the cursor border.  But today, I am noticing that the cursor overlaps the center position a little bit.  Still LSB, normal position on passband shift and also the same filter width of 2.8 KHz.

So, this seems like different behavior and I am not sure which way is supposed to be the correct way.

Can someone explain how this is supposed to be and how it might be affected by various controls.  I am wondering if there is some control setting that might be different to show different behavior.

Thanks for your help.

73, phil, K7PEH

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Re: P3 Cursor Position

Alan Bloom
There was an error in cursor position that affected certain digital
modes under certain conditions that has been fixed in beta version
00.29.  But other than that the cursors should be accurately showing the
actual filter bandwidth of the K3.

The one exception to that is if you adjust the filter shift so that the
bandwidth straddles the suppressed carrier frequency.  In that case you
don't actually hear anything (other than a little feed-through) on the
other side of zero beat.  

Alan N1AL


On Sat, 2010-08-14 at 22:07 -0700, Phil Hystad wrote:

> Regarding the P3, I am a little confused about the cursor position.  For VFO A, I understand this to be the Cyan colored U bracket like thing at the center bottom of the spectrum display.
>
> Last night I was playing around with how this is affected by filter width and also passband shifting.  Now, I believe that when I had the passband shift in the normal position with a 2.8 KHz filter width that my LSB signal showed the Cyan cursor being lined up right on the center frequency with the right side of the cursor border.  But today, I am noticing that the cursor overlaps the center position a little bit.  Still LSB, normal position on passband shift and also the same filter width of 2.8 KHz.
>
> So, this seems like different behavior and I am not sure which way is supposed to be the correct way.
>
> Can someone explain how this is supposed to be and how it might be affected by various controls.  I am wondering if there is some control setting that might be different to show different behavior.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
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Re: P3 Cursor Position

Joe Subich, W4TV-4
In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

Phil,

 > Regarding the P3, I am a little confused about the cursor position.
 > For VFO A, I understand this to be the Cyan colored U bracket like
 > thing at the center bottom of the spectrum display.

VFO A is the WHITE "U bracket like" cursor.  VFO B is the Cyan colored
cursor.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV

On 8/15/2010 1:07 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:

> Regarding the P3, I am a little confused about the cursor position.
> For VFO A, I understand this to be the Cyan colored U bracket like
> thing at the center bottom of the spectrum display.
>
> Last night I was playing around with how this is affected by filter
> width and also passband shifting.  Now, I believe that when I had the
> passband shift in the normal position with a 2.8 KHz filter width
> that my LSB signal showed the Cyan cursor being lined up right on the
> center frequency with the right side of the cursor border.  But
> today, I am noticing that the cursor overlaps the center position a
> little bit.  Still LSB, normal position on passband shift and also
> the same filter width of 2.8 KHz.
>
> So, this seems like different behavior and I am not sure which way is
> supposed to be the correct way.
>
> Can someone explain how this is supposed to be and how it might be
> affected by various controls.  I am wondering if there is some
> control setting that might be different to show different behavior.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list Home:
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> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
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> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: P3 Cursor Position

Rick Prather-2
Strange, on mine VFO A is Cyan and VFO B is Pink.   I don't have a white one.

Rick
K6LE

On 8/15/2010, at 8:47 , Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> Phil,
>
>> Regarding the P3, I am a little confused about the cursor position.
>> For VFO A, I understand this to be the Cyan colored U bracket like
>> thing at the center bottom of the spectrum display.
>
> VFO A is the WHITE "U bracket like" cursor.  VFO B is the Cyan colored
> cursor.
>
> 73,
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV

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Re: P3 Cursor Position

The Smiths

Let's call Cyan "BLUE" most people will understand it better that way.  Yes, VFO A is blue and VFO B is pink. They can each show you the filter width.  Turn on "VFO B" in the menu to display the Pink width/shift "bracket" for VFO B, and HOLD the Marker button to show the Pink VFO B marker. You don't have to have both on at the same time.
The white line is the CENTER line that runs straight up the middle of your P3.  It splits right through the center of the K3's displayed Freq. at the top.
 

> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:36:03 -0700
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 Cursor Position
>
> Strange, on mine VFO A is Cyan and VFO B is Pink. I don't have a white one.
>
> Rick
> K6LE
>
> On 8/15/2010, at 8:47 , Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>
> >
> > Phil,
> >
> >> Regarding the P3, I am a little confused about the cursor position.
> >> For VFO A, I understand this to be the Cyan colored U bracket like
> >> thing at the center bottom of the spectrum display.
> >
> > VFO A is the WHITE "U bracket like" cursor. VFO B is the Cyan colored
> > cursor.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > ... Joe, W4TV
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
     
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Re: P3 Cursor Position

Joe Subich, W4TV-4
In reply to this post by Rick Prather-2

Apparently my color vision is the issue here.  For me VFO A is
the same color as the baseline and VFO B is simply darker and
slightly blue (which is why I assumed it was Cyan).

Can you believe I used to do (color) camera set-up ... and could
match them better than anyone else on the staff?

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 8/15/2010 8:36 PM, Rick Prather wrote:

> Strange, on mine VFO A is Cyan and VFO B is Pink.   I don't have a white one.
>
> Rick
> K6LE
>
> On 8/15/2010, at 8:47 , Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>
>>
>> Phil,
>>
>>> Regarding the P3, I am a little confused about the cursor position.
>>> For VFO A, I understand this to be the Cyan colored U bracket like
>>> thing at the center bottom of the spectrum display.
>>
>> VFO A is the WHITE "U bracket like" cursor.  VFO B is the Cyan colored
>> cursor.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>>     ... Joe, W4TV
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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Re: P3 Cursor Position

The Smiths

I can belive that, that's why you know it's Cyan, and not just "blue".. LOL.  But for the rest of the people here that keep things simple RED, GREEN, BLUE and YELLOW they just call it Blue..
 

> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 22:05:32 -0400
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 Cursor Position
>
>
> Apparently my color vision is the issue here. For me VFO A is
> the same color as the baseline and VFO B is simply darker and
> slightly blue (which is why I assumed it was Cyan).
>
> Can you believe I used to do (color) camera set-up ... and could
> match them better than anyone else on the staff?
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 8/15/2010 8:36 PM, Rick Prather wrote:
> > Strange, on mine VFO A is Cyan and VFO B is Pink. I don't have a white one.
> >
> > Rick
> > K6LE
> >
> > On 8/15/2010, at 8:47 , Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Phil,
> >>
> >>> Regarding the P3, I am a little confused about the cursor position.
> >>> For VFO A, I understand this to be the Cyan colored U bracket like
> >>> thing at the center bottom of the spectrum display.
> >>
> >> VFO A is the WHITE "U bracket like" cursor. VFO B is the Cyan colored
> >> cursor.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >>
> >> ... Joe, W4TV
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
     
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Re: P3 Cursor Position

AC7AC
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Re: P3 Cursor Position

Don Wilhelm-4
While I do know the difference between cyan and blue, magenta and red,
my wife accuses me of having only 8 colors in my crayola box!
She is one of those rare people who has a great color memory.  She can
look at a color, go to the DIY store and have a paint mixed to match
what she saw at home.  Everything is relative, and such skills vary.

73,
Don W3FPR

Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> The colors are actually the RGB values for Cyan, as noted, and Magenta.
>
> People see them differently. Originally, to avoid confusion, especially for
> people who don't speak English as their primary language, I used "blue" and
> "red" in the manual. But Alan, the designer, engineer extraordinary,  called
> me on it as point of technical accuracy :-) So they are called by their
> correct names in the owner's manual.
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> I can belive that, that's why you know it's Cyan, and not just "blue".. LOL.
> But for the rest of the people here that keep things simple RED, GREEN, BLUE
> and YELLOW they just call it Blue..
>  
>  
>
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Re: P3 Cursor Position

k6dgw
In reply to this post by The Smiths
The Smiths wrote:
> I can belive that, that's why you know it's Cyan, and not just
> "blue".. LOL.  But for the rest of the people here that keep things
> simple RED, GREEN, BLUE and YELLOW they just call it Blue..

Got to play with N6XI's new P3 this last weekend.  Pretty cool!.  I did
figure out that one of the little "U-channels" was VFO A and the other
was B because turning the B knob moved it, and they get wider with wider
filters.  Unfortunately they look the same to me.  In fact, all of it
looks the same, I don't have any color vision.  Notwithstanding, the P3
sure seemed usable to me.

I did notice that the waterfall seemed to be of little use to me, and I
don't know if that's because I'm not real fond of waterfalls and use the
MMTTY spectrum display on RTTY, or because the P3 waterfall is
color-coded somehow that's lost for me.

Supporting myself in college at the end of the 50's/early 60's as an
engineer at the local TV station, color TV was just showing up.  I never
turned the color monitor on so I never had to fix it because it never
broke on my shift.  All the rest I could do with the RGB scope, all of
which were "Tektronix scope-color" traces.  Most hams are male, most
males max out at about 16 colors [Windows default], "peach" is a fruit,
not a color if you're male, and no male knows what mauve is.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2010 Cal QSO Party 2-3 Oct 2010
- www.cqp.org
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Re: P3 Cursor Position

AC7AC
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Re: P3 Cursor Position

k6dgw
Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> Well Fred, I find the waterfall valuable for displaying the recent history
> of signals, showing those that have stopped recently still travelling down
> the screen.

More multi-tasking than I can handle anymore, but I see your point.  I
probably won't be a P3 early-adopter, but then, I've never really been
entranced with panadapters, even the old ones that weren't color-coded,
except for green.

> Yes, the waterfall is "color coded" and also varies in brightness or
> intensity. Low-level signals are blue and the colors shift through yellow to
> red for the strongest - with the normal mixtures in between.

"Normal mixtures?"  And no, I am not going to take Elecraft to court
over ADA issues.  I think I just don't like waterfalls on screens.  The
kind on rivers are great.  Fortunately, I quickly found the switch that
got rid of the WF and gave me a full-screen spectrum display, and it was
a lot of fun, and impressive, to play with it.  Keeping track of the two
VFO's and filter BW in relation to the freq span and center freq was
really cool.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2010 Cal QSO Party 2-3 Oct 2010
- www.cqp.org
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Re: P3 Cursor Position

AC7AC
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Re: P3 Cursor Position

M0XDF
In reply to this post by k6dgw
I think I must be very fortunate, since I appear to be able to determine many more colours than 16.
Not having been able to build my P3 yet (waiting for the nuts!), I can't be sure, but it looks like the cursors are both U channels, what if one was an upside down U, would that help?

73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108
--
Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft and the only one
that can be mass produced with unskilled labour.
-Wernher von Braun, rocket engineer (1912-1977)

On 16 Aug 2010, at 22:00, Fred Jensen wrote:

>   Most hams are male, most
> males max out at about 16 colors [Windows default], "peach" is a fruit,
> not a color if you're male, and no male knows what mauve is.

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Re: P3 Cursor Position

k6dgw
David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
> I think I must be very fortunate, since I appear to be able to
> determine many more colours than 16. Not having been able to build my
> P3 yet (waiting for the nuts!), I can't be sure, but it looks like
> the cursors are both U channels, what if one was an upside down U,
> would that help?

Yep, they're both little square "U's."  I didn't have any problem using
them.  Without the sub-rx, you always receive on whatever is in VFO A,
so it's sort of moot, you're listening at the cursor on the center
frequency, and if VFO B is not on the same frequency, it's the other
cursor.  I don't know if the U-channels swap colors when you do an A|B
on the K3, but it doesn't matter.  My K3 doesn't have the sub-rx, so I'm
not familiar with its operation.  Rick's K3 had the sub-rx and I'm not
sure of the P3 cursor behavior when you do A|B in that case, I didn't
try it.

There was no manual at the operating position [it was at the West Coast
CW Gathering in Reno Nevada and we were signing W6FOC/7 from the 17th
floor of the Peppermill Hotel], however it can't have taken me more than
3 or 4 minutes to figure out the basics of the P3.  The controls were
very intuitive, I somehow knew that tapping DISPLAY would [eventually]
get rid of the waterfall and fill the screen with the spectrum and it
did.  I'm sure there are a host of features I didn't get to, but I was
using it on the air very quickly.  It came across to me as highly
consistent user-interface engineering, just like I expected from Aptos.

The "16 colors, Windoze default" is a "sort of joke," although a lot of
males seem to be less sensitive to closely related colors than females,
and many who can name colors don't really care, one kind of green is as
good as another :-)  And in the "Think before you ask" department,
people often ask me, "Well, just what colors can you see?"  The answer
of course is "All of them ... I just can't name them."

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2010 Cal QSO Party 2-3 Oct 2010
- www.cqp.org


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