Elecraft

P3 Not Zeroed

Classic

List

Threaded

19 messages Options

k4vd

P3 Not Zeroed

I noticed my P3 doesn't seem to be zeroed with the K3s. When I tune in a CW
signal with a 600 Hz pitch the P3 is off by 71 Hz. Not much but, I
expected - zero.

In AM - WWV at 5 MHz the P3 seems spot on.

73,
Kev N4TT
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

It's been a while since I looked at the manuals for my K3 and P3, but I
do recall that there are calibration procedures for both.

73, Jim K9YC

On 7/22/2019 9:28 PM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:
> I noticed my P3 doesn't seem to be zeroed with the K3s. When I tune in a CW
> signal with a 600 Hz pitch the P3 is off by 71 Hz. Not much but, I
> expected - zero.
>
> In AM - WWV at 5 MHz the P3 seems spot on.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

k4vd

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

Hi Jim:

I thought I had the right adjustment on the P3 but it seems global. I can't
figure out why WWV can be spot on and then another signal off. I can't even
be sure if it is the radio or the P3 (or me) at this point. I'll keep
digging.

Kev

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 3:57 AM Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It's been a while since I looked at the manuals for my K3 and P3, but I
> do recall that there are calibration procedures for both.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 7/22/2019 9:28 PM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:
> > I noticed my P3 doesn't seem to be zeroed with the K3s. When I tune in a
> CW
> > signal with a 600 Hz pitch the P3 is off by 71 Hz. Not much but, I
> > expected - zero.
> >
> > In AM - WWV at 5 MHz the P3 seems spot on.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

First make sure the radio is correct on all WWV frequencies. I use CW mode and Auto Spot. That will get to within 2 Hz or better. Adjust the Ref freq to calibrate.

Then you can calibrate the P3 to the radio.

No tuning or listening for zero beat required.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 23, 2019, at 9:54 AM, Kevin, N4TT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim:
>
> I thought I had the right adjustment on the P3 but it seems global. I can't
> figure out why WWV can be spot on and then another signal off. I can't even
> be sure if it is the radio or the P3 (or me) at this point. I'll keep
> digging.
>
> Kev
>
>
>
>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 3:57 AM Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> It's been a while since I looked at the manuals for my K3 and P3, but I
>> do recall that there are calibration procedures for both.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>>> On 7/22/2019 9:28 PM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:
>>> I noticed my P3 doesn't seem to be zeroed with the K3s. When I tune in a
>> CW
>>> signal with a 600 Hz pitch the P3 is off by 71 Hz. Not much but, I
>>> expected - zero.
>>>
>>> In AM - WWV at 5 MHz the P3 seems spot on.
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Alan Bloom

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

Good advice.

Also be aware that the center frequency differs depending on mode. For
example, it is the supressed carrier frequency on SSB but is offset by
typically 600 Hz on CW.

I like to use AM mode for frequeny calibration. After doing a frequency
calibration on the K3, tune to a signal on the AM broadcast band and
adjust the P3 frequency calibration. (MENU:RefCal. Cal procedurre is
on page 39 of the manual) As I recall, AM broadcast stations are
required to be within 20 Hz of nominal frequency but are typically much
closer than that.

Alan N1AL

On 2019-07-23 08:20, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> First make sure the radio is correct on all WWV frequencies. I use CW mode and Auto Spot. That will get to within 2 Hz or better. Adjust the Ref freq to calibrate.
>
> Then you can calibrate the P3 to the radio.
>
> No tuning or listening for zero beat required.
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 23, 2019, at 9:54 AM, Kevin, N4TT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim:
>
> I thought I had the right adjustment on the P3 but it seems global. I can't
> figure out why WWV can be spot on and then another signal off. I can't even
> be sure if it is the radio or the P3 (or me) at this point. I'll keep
> digging.
>
> Kev
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 3:57 AM Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It's been a while since I looked at the manuals for my K3 and P3, but I
> do recall that there are calibration procedures for both.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 7/22/2019 9:28 PM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:
> I noticed my P3 doesn't seem to be zeroed with the K3s. When I tune in a CW signal with a 600 Hz pitch the P3 is off by 71 Hz. Not much but, I
> expected - zero.
>
> In AM - WWV at 5 MHz the P3 seems spot on.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

k4vd

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

Maybe that's the basic question...

If I tune the radio to 7.035 to set a CW signal for a pitch of 600 Hz (as
set using the PITCH function) what should I expect to see on the P3?

1) The P3 shows 7.035 and the CW signal is offset from the center by 600 Hz?

2) The P3 shows 7.035 and compensates for the pitch placing the CW signal
directly under the cursor?

3) The P3 shows 7.035600 placing the CW signal directly under the cursor?

I expect #2.

I'll be trying out more this evening.

Kev

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 12:47 PM Alan Bloom <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Good advice.
>
>
> Also be aware that the center frequency differs depending on mode. For
> example, it is the supressed carrier frequency on SSB but is offset by
> typically 600 Hz on CW.
>
>
> I like to use AM mode for frequeny calibration. After doing a frequency
> calibration on the K3, tune to a signal on the AM broadcast band and adjust
> the P3 frequency calibration. (MENU:RefCal. Cal procedurre is on page 39
> of the manual) As I recall, AM broadcast stations are required to be
> within 20 Hz of nominal frequency but are typically much closer than that.
>
>
>
> Alan N1AL
>
>
> On 2019-07-23 08:20, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>
> First make sure the radio is correct on all WWV frequencies. I use CW
> mode and Auto Spot. That will get to within 2 Hz or better. Adjust the Ref
> freq to calibrate.
>
> Then you can calibrate the P3 to the radio.
>
> No tuning or listening for zero beat required.
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 23, 2019, at 9:54 AM, Kevin, N4TT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim:
>
> I thought I had the right adjustment on the P3 but it seems global. I can't
> figure out why WWV can be spot on and then another signal off. I can't even
> be sure if it is the radio or the P3 (or me) at this point. I'll keep
> digging.
>
> Kev
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 3:57 AM Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> It's been a while since I looked at the manuals for my K3 and P3, but I
> do recall that there are calibration procedures for both.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 7/22/2019 9:28 PM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:
> I noticed my P3 doesn't seem to be zeroed with the K3s. When I tune in a
>
> CW
>
> signal with a 600 Hz pitch the P3 is off by 71 Hz. Not much but, I
> expected - zero.
>
> In AM - WWV at 5 MHz the P3 seems spot on.
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

In reply to this post by Alan Bloom

On 2019-07-23 12:47 PM, Alan Bloom wrote:
> Also be aware that the center frequency differs depending on mode.

The P3 *should be able to account for that* by using the FI get:

> FI * (I.F. Center Frequency; GET only)
> RSP format: Finnnn; where nnnn represents the last 4 digits of the
> K3’s present I.F. center frequency in Hz. Example: If nnnn = 5000,
> the I.F. center frequency is 8215000 Hz. Intended for use with
> panadapters, which need to keep track of the exact I.F. center
> frequency as filter bandwidths and shifts are changed by the
> operator.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2019-07-23 12:47 PM, Alan Bloom wrote:

> Good advice.
>
> Also be aware that the center frequency differs depending on mode. For
> example, it is the supressed carrier frequency on SSB but is offset by
> typically 600 Hz on CW.
>
> I like to use AM mode for frequeny calibration. After doing a frequency
> calibration on the K3, tune to a signal on the AM broadcast band and
> adjust the P3 frequency calibration. (MENU:RefCal. Cal procedurre is
> on page 39 of the manual) As I recall, AM broadcast stations are
> required to be within 20 Hz of nominal frequency but are typically much
> closer than that.
>
> Alan N1AL
>

k4vd

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

Thanks all!

There's a ref cal on the K3s. I ran through the procedure for that using 15
MHz and rechecked on 10 MHz. Seems this was quite a bit off. Now, not only
is it lining up on WWV but also any CW signal I select lines up very
closely between the marker on the P3 and a 600 Hz marker on fldigi with the
sidetone set to 600.

A thing I noticed. When making the adjustment on the P3 the offset would be
different for different signals. 15 MHz was 263 while 10 MHz was 210. So
there was no one-size-fits-all adjustment there. On the K3s, I adjusted for
15 and everything came into sync including the P3, which now reads 12 for
the ref adjustment and is consistent across a number of signals.

Learning more every day. And liking it more.

73,
Kev N4TT

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 2:38 PM Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 2019-07-23 12:47 PM, Alan Bloom wrote:
> > Also be aware that the center frequency differs depending on mode.
>
> The P3 *should be able to account for that* by using the FI get:
>
> > FI * (I.F. Center Frequency; GET only)
> > RSP format: Finnnn; where nnnn represents the last 4 digits of the
> > K3’s present I.F. center frequency in Hz. Example: If nnnn = 5000,
> > the I.F. center frequency is 8215000 Hz. Intended for use with
> > panadapters, which need to keep track of the exact I.F. center
> > frequency as filter bandwidths and shifts are changed by the
> > operator.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2019-07-23 12:47 PM, Alan Bloom wrote:
> > Good advice.
> >
> > Also be aware that the center frequency differs depending on mode. For
> > example, it is the supressed carrier frequency on SSB but is offset by
> > typically 600 Hz on CW.
> >
> > I like to use AM mode for frequeny calibration. After doing a frequency
> > calibration on the K3, tune to a signal on the AM broadcast band and
> > adjust the P3 frequency calibration. (MENU:RefCal. Cal procedurre is
> > on page 39 of the manual) As I recall, AM broadcast stations are
> > required to be within 20 Hz of nominal frequency but are typically much
> > closer than that.
> >
> > Alan N1AL
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Alan Bloom

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

You could be right. I'm out of town right now so I can't check it. But
I think I remember that in some of the digital modes the definition of
VFO A frequency is different.

Alan N1AL

On 2019-07-23 11:36, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> On 2019-07-23 12:47 PM, Alan Bloom wrote:
>
>> Also be aware that the center frequency differs depending on mode.
>
> The P3 *should be able to account for that* by using the FI get:
>
>> FI * (I.F. Center Frequency; GET only)
>> RSP format: Finnnn; where nnnn represents the last 4 digits of the K3's present I.F. center frequency in Hz. Example: If nnnn = 5000, the I.F. center frequency is 8215000 Hz. Intended for use with panadapters, which need to keep track of the exact I.F. center frequency as filter bandwidths and shifts are changed by the
>> operator.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
> On 2019-07-23 12:47 PM, Alan Bloom wrote:
>
>> Good advice.
>>
>> Also be aware that the center frequency differs depending on mode. For
>> example, it is the supressed carrier frequency on SSB but is offset by
>> typically 600 Hz on CW.
>>
>> I like to use AM mode for frequeny calibration. After doing a frequency
>> calibration on the K3, tune to a signal on the AM broadcast band and
>> adjust the P3 frequency calibration. (MENU:RefCal. Cal procedurre is
>> on page 39 of the manual) As I recall, AM broadcast stations are
>> required to be within 20 Hz of nominal frequency but are typically much
>> closer than that.
>>
>> Alan N1AL
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Nr4c

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

In reply to this post by k4vd

For CW, if radio is set to 7.040 then it will transmit a carrier on 7.040. If you tune to a station transmitting on 7.030 then your radio should also be at 7.039 and the P3 would show a spike on 7.030. The pitch of the audio is done in the receiver so you can make out the code. Otherwise you wound only hear “tch tch tccch” for a “U”.

In the past an adjustable “BFO” or Beat Freeuency Oscilkator was used to beat against the incoming carrier to provide an audio so that you could hear the code. This was often needed due to you hardly ever worked someone on same frequency as your crystal. Once you found someone coming back to you, a turn of the BFO knob could provide a usable audio signal.

The TX Sidetone is there for the same reason.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Jul 23, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Kevin, N4TT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Maybe that's the basic question...
>
> If I tune the radio to 7.035 to set a CW signal for a pitch of 600 Hz (as
> set using the PITCH function) what should I expect to see on the P3?
>
> 1) The P3 shows 7.035 and the CW signal is offset from the center by 600 Hz?
>
> 2) The P3 shows 7.035 and compensates for the pitch placing the CW signal
> directly under the cursor?
>
> 3) The P3 shows 7.035600 placing the CW signal directly under the cursor?
>
> I expect #2.
>
> I'll be trying out more this evening.
>
> Kev
>
>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 12:47 PM Alan Bloom <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Good advice.
>>
>>
>> Also be aware that the center frequency differs depending on mode. For
>> example, it is the supressed carrier frequency on SSB but is offset by
>> typically 600 Hz on CW.
>>
>>
>> I like to use AM mode for frequeny calibration. After doing a frequency
>> calibration on the K3, tune to a signal on the AM broadcast band and adjust
>> the P3 frequency calibration. (MENU:RefCal. Cal procedurre is on page 39
>> of the manual) As I recall, AM broadcast stations are required to be
>> within 20 Hz of nominal frequency but are typically much closer than that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Alan N1AL
>>
>>
>> On 2019-07-23 08:20, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

Gwen Patton

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

I thought an oscilkator was one of those green lizards with lots of teeth
that live in the swamp....

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 4:25 PM Nr4c <[hidden email]> wrote:

> For CW, if radio is set to 7.040 then it will transmit a carrier on 7.040.
> If you tune to a station transmitting on 7.030 then your radio should also
> be at 7.039 and the P3 would show a spike on 7.030. The pitch of the audio
> is done in the receiver so you can make out the code. Otherwise you wound
> only hear “tch tch tccch” for a “U”.
>
> In the past an adjustable “BFO” or Beat Freeuency Oscilkator was used to
> beat against the incoming carrier to provide an audio so that you could
> hear the code. This was often needed due to you hardly ever worked someone
> on same frequency as your crystal. Once you found someone coming back to
> you, a turn of the BFO knob could provide a usable audio signal.
>
> The TX Sidetone is there for the same reason.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>
> > On Jul 23, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Kevin, N4TT <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe that's the basic question...
> >
> > If I tune the radio to 7.035 to set a CW signal for a pitch of 600 Hz (as
> > set using the PITCH function) what should I expect to see on the P3?
> >
> > 1) The P3 shows 7.035 and the CW signal is offset from the center by 600
> Hz?
> >
> > 2) The P3 shows 7.035 and compensates for the pitch placing the CW signal
> > directly under the cursor?
> >
> > 3) The P3 shows 7.035600 placing the CW signal directly under the cursor?
> >
> > I expect #2.
> >
> > I'll be trying out more this evening.
> >
> > Kev
> >
> >> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 12:47 PM Alan Bloom <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Good advice.
> >>
> >>
> >> Also be aware that the center frequency differs depending on mode. For
> >> example, it is the supressed carrier frequency on SSB but is offset by
> >> typically 600 Hz on CW.
> >>
> >>
> >> I like to use AM mode for frequeny calibration. After doing a frequency
> >> calibration on the K3, tune to a signal on the AM broadcast band and
> adjust
> >> the P3 frequency calibration. (MENU:RefCal. Cal procedurre is on page
> 39
> >> of the manual) As I recall, AM broadcast stations are required to be
> >> within 20 Hz of nominal frequency but are typically much closer than
> that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Alan N1AL
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2019-07-23 08:20, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--

-+-+-+-+-
Jenny Everywhere's Infinite: Quark Time
http://quarktime.net
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Gary Smith-2

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

In reply to this post by Alan Bloom

This may be too simplistic or doesn't
address the OP as well as it could but...

I do have an external 10M reference, a
GPSDO and use that to keep the K3s in
proper frequency adjustment. That said,
the instructions in the K3 or K3s manual
address how to zero beat a known frequency
source like WWV.

Once the K3/K3s is adjusted to be
accurately on the exact frequency (ie:
15.000000). I then go to the P3 and at the
narrowest "Span" option on the P3, select
"Ref Cal" from the menu button. and move
the signal; till it is at dead center on
the screen, right in the center of the
15.000000 MHz signal, right at the center
mark.

I then tap select and this returns the P3
to normal function. This leaves me with a
monitor that shows exactly where signals
are and when I use the marker function, it
lands that chosen signal dead center and
the K3s reflects it as well as the P3.

Nothing like a cool smoothie on a hot
day...

73,

Gary
KA1J

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

In reply to this post by k4vd

Just checked my K3S and P3 using WWV 5.0 MHz and 15.0MHz. The error
indicated on the radio is 1 to 2 Hz low. The P3 is correct for both
frequencies with a Ref Cal value of -55 for both frequencies.

My K3S calibration method uses CW mode, with CWT active and press SPOT.
That will zero the radio to the WWV carrier frequency and account for
the user selected sidetone frequency. It will indicate such on VFO A
showing any + or - difference. 14.999.999 a 1 Hz error and 4.999.998 a
2 Hz error. The P2 shows the exact frequency with MKR A on both WWV
frequencies.

All good enough for me.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 7/23/2019 2:55 PM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:

> Thanks all!
>
> There's a ref cal on the K3s. I ran through the procedure for that using 15
> MHz and rechecked on 10 MHz. Seems this was quite a bit off. Now, not only
> is it lining up on WWV but also any CW signal I select lines up very
> closely between the marker on the P3 and a 600 Hz marker on fldigi with the
> sidetone set to 600.
>
> A thing I noticed. When making the adjustment on the P3 the offset would be
> different for different signals. 15 MHz was 263 while 10 MHz was 210. So
> there was no one-size-fits-all adjustment there. On the K3s, I adjusted for
> 15 and everything came into sync including the P3, which now reads 12 for
> the ref adjustment and is consistent across a number of signals.
>
>
> Learning more every day. And liking it more.
>
> 73,
> Kev N4TT
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 2:38 PM Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 2019-07-23 12:47 PM, Alan Bloom wrote:
>> > Also be aware that the center frequency differs depending on mode.
>>
>> The P3 *should be able to account for that* by using the FI get:
>>
>>> FI * (I.F. Center Frequency; GET only)
>>> RSP format: Finnnn; where nnnn represents the last 4 digits of the
>>> K3’s present I.F. center frequency in Hz. Example: If nnnn = 5000,
>>> the I.F. center frequency is 8215000 Hz. Intended for use with
>>> panadapters, which need to keep track of the exact I.F. center
>>> frequency as filter bandwidths and shifts are changed by the
>>> operator.
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 2019-07-23 12:47 PM, Alan Bloom wrote:
>>> Good advice.
>>>
>>> Also be aware that the center frequency differs depending on mode. For
>>> example, it is the supressed carrier frequency on SSB but is offset by
>>> typically 600 Hz on CW.
>>>
>>> I like to use AM mode for frequeny calibration. After doing a frequency
>>> calibration on the K3, tune to a signal on the AM broadcast band and
>>> adjust the P3 frequency calibration. (MENU:RefCal. Cal procedurre is
>>> on page 39 of the manual) As I recall, AM broadcast stations are
>>> required to be within 20 Hz of nominal frequency but are typically much
>>> closer than that.
>>>
>>> Alan N1AL
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Don Wilhelm

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

In reply to this post by k4vd

Kev,

I believe that Alan's response, while correct is a bit confusing.
In CW mode, a signal at 7.035,000 kHz should be shown at 7.035,000 MHz.
OTOH, an SSB signal with a suppressed carrier frequency of 7.135,000 MHz
will show the suppressed carrier frequency as the center, but the
intelligence of the sidebands will appear above or below the center
frequency (depends on USB or LSB). Data modes will be similar to SSB.

I am not certain why Alan prefers using a BCB signal, but WWV is an AM
signal with defined frequency and tone frequencies. IMHO, it is better
than a broadcast signal for calibration and assessment purposes if used
in SSB mode. In CW mode, where the carrier frequency is important,
Alan's choice may be good.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/23/2019 2:31 PM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:

> Maybe that's the basic question...
>
> If I tune the radio to 7.035 to set a CW signal for a pitch of 600 Hz (as
> set using the PITCH function) what should I expect to see on the P3?
>
> 1) The P3 shows 7.035 and the CW signal is offset from the center by 600 Hz?
>
> 2) The P3 shows 7.035 and compensates for the pitch placing the CW signal
> directly under the cursor?
>
> 3) The P3 shows 7.035600 placing the CW signal directly under the cursor?
>
> I expect #2.
>
> I'll be trying out more this evening.
>
> Kev
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 12:47 PM Alan Bloom <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Good advice.
>>
>>
>> Also be aware that the center frequency differs depending on mode. For
>> example, it is the supressed carrier frequency on SSB but is offset by
>> typically 600 Hz on CW.
>>
>>
>> I like to use AM mode for frequeny calibration. After doing a frequency
>> calibration on the K3, tune to a signal on the AM broadcast band and adjust
>> the P3 frequency calibration. (MENU:RefCal. Cal procedurre is on page 39
>> of the manual) As I recall, AM broadcast stations are required to be
>> within 20 Hz of nominal frequency but are typically much closer than that.

Alan Bloom

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

Re: choice of test signal for calibrating the P3

> I am not certain why Alan prefers using a BCB signal, but WWV is an AM signal

> with defined frequency and tone frequencies.

Two reasons. The main one is that the local AM station's signal doesn't
depend on propagation. It is always there, day or night, with no
fading. The other reason is that the relatively low frequency is less
affected by the K3 calibration. For calibrating the P3 that gives a
slight advantage.

But WWV works fine also.

Alan
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

k4vd

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

Hi Don:

I'm still checking things out but I think I have it all working together. I
calibrated the radio using WWV at 5, 10 and 15 MHz. I only had to line up
one and the other two fell right in. Then I went to the P3 and lined that
up with ref cal. Again, everything lined up at 5, 10 and 15.

Then I want back to fldigi which is where I originally noticed the
difference. I have the radio and fldigi set for a CW sidetone of 600 Hz.
When I would tune in the radio for the 600 Hz tone on a random CW signal,
the peak of the P3 trace was right over the signal and Fldigi showed the
signal up at 600 Hz. Everything matched. This is what I was looking for,
the three functions matching.

I think I'm in good shape.

Kev

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 11:00 AM Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Kev,
>
> I believe that Alan's response, while correct is a bit confusing.
> In CW mode, a signal at 7.035,000 kHz should be shown at 7.035,000 MHz.
> OTOH, an SSB signal with a suppressed carrier frequency of 7.135,000 MHz
> will show the suppressed carrier frequency as the center, but the
> intelligence of the sidebands will appear above or below the center
> frequency (depends on USB or LSB). Data modes will be similar to SSB.
>
> I am not certain why Alan prefers using a BCB signal, but WWV is an AM
> signal with defined frequency and tone frequencies. IMHO, it is better
> than a broadcast signal for calibration and assessment purposes if used
> in SSB mode. In CW mode, where the carrier frequency is important,
> Alan's choice may be good.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/23/2019 2:31 PM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:
> > Maybe that's the basic question...
> >
> > If I tune the radio to 7.035 to set a CW signal for a pitch of 600 Hz (as
> > set using the PITCH function) what should I expect to see on the P3?
> >
> > 1) The P3 shows 7.035 and the CW signal is offset from the center by 600
> Hz?
> >
> > 2) The P3 shows 7.035 and compensates for the pitch placing the CW signal
> > directly under the cursor?
> >
> > 3) The P3 shows 7.035600 placing the CW signal directly under the cursor?
> >
> > I expect #2.
> >
> > I'll be trying out more this evening.
> >
> > Kev
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 12:47 PM Alan Bloom <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Good advice.
> >>
> >>
> >> Also be aware that the center frequency differs depending on mode. For
> >> example, it is the supressed carrier frequency on SSB but is offset by
> >> typically 600 Hz on CW.
> >>
> >>
> >> I like to use AM mode for frequeny calibration. After doing a frequency
> >> calibration on the K3, tune to a signal on the AM broadcast band and
> adjust
> >> the P3 frequency calibration. (MENU:RefCal. Cal procedurre is on page
> 39
> >> of the manual) As I recall, AM broadcast stations are required to be
> >> within 20 Hz of nominal frequency but are typically much closer than
> that.
>

Don Wilhelm

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

Kev,

Do you have FlDigi set to produce audio tones in SSB mode for CW or is
it keying the K3 directly?
That will make a significant difference, and the P3 signal placement
will reflect that.

We did not consider that you were using a software application to
produce CW previously to this post.
Know what your software application is doing and you may have the answer
to your question.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/25/2019 2:41 PM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:

> Hi Don:
>
> I'm still checking things out but I think I have it all working
> together. I calibrated the radio using WWV at 5, 10 and 15 MHz. I only
> had to line up one and the other two fell right in. Then I went to the
> P3 and lined that up with ref cal. Again, everything lined up at 5, 10
> and 15.
>
> Then I want back to fldigi which is where I originally noticed the
> difference. I have the radio and fldigi set for a CW sidetone of 600
> Hz. When I would tune in the radio for the 600 Hz tone on a random CW
> signal, the peak of the P3 trace was right over the signal and Fldigi
> showed the signal up at 600 Hz. Everything matched. This is what I
> was looking for, the three functions matching.
>
> I think I'm in good shape.
>
>

k4vd

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

Only to read the scale. Keyed from the rig.

It's working guys! As I mentioned, everything is lining up as expected.

This is why I went with Elecraft. Because of this group. Last group would
have been everything from RTFM to why would you want to do that...

73,
Kev N4TT

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 8:56 PM Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Kev,
>
> Do you have FlDigi set to produce audio tones in SSB mode for CW or is
> it keying the K3 directly?
> That will make a significant difference, and the P3 signal placement
> will reflect that.
>
> We did not consider that you were using a software application to
> produce CW previously to this post.
> Know what your software application is doing and you may have the answer
> to your question.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/25/2019 2:41 PM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:
> > Hi Don:
> >
> > I'm still checking things out but I think I have it all working
> > together. I calibrated the radio using WWV at 5, 10 and 15 MHz. I only
> > had to line up one and the other two fell right in. Then I went to the
> > P3 and lined that up with ref cal. Again, everything lined up at 5, 10
> > and 15.
> >
> > Then I want back to fldigi which is where I originally noticed the
> > difference. I have the radio and fldigi set for a CW sidetone of 600
> > Hz. When I would tune in the radio for the 600 Hz tone on a random CW
> > signal, the peak of the P3 trace was right over the signal and Fldigi
> > showed the signal up at 600 Hz. Everything matched. This is what I
> > was looking for, the three functions matching.
> >
> > I think I'm in good shape.
> >
> >
>
>

Gary Smith-2

Re: P3 Not Zeroed

Kev,

Glad it's working! I'm enough OCD that
after being a few Hz off every so often
and going through the ref cal procedure, I
bought the exref option and a BFG7TBL
GPSDO on fleabay. With this, the K3 & now
K3s is adjusted perfectly at all times and
the computer clock is dead on constantly.

I used NMEATime for the satellite software
for time and it's for me, perfect, never
fails.

Rarely I'll find the P3 is a tad off but
when it is, all I do now is find WWV, set
the span the the narrowest, tap the P3
menu button, select ref cal, tap select,
adjust the encoder till the center P3 line
is in the center of the signal, tap select
and I'm done. As the radio is always kept
stable with the GPSDO, it's that one
occasional above set of actions that takes
30 seconds, to keep the P3 in perfect
sync.

I believe Wayne said the hardware to
connect directly to the GPSDO is included
with the upcoming K4 series.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Only to read the scale. Keyed from the rig.
>
> It's working guys! As I mentioned, everything is lining up as
> expected.
>
> This is why I went with Elecraft. Because of this group. Last group
> would have been everything from RTFM to why would you want to do
> that...
>
> 73,
> Kev N4TT
>
> On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 8:56 PM Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Kev,
> >
> > Do you have FlDigi set to produce audio tones in SSB mode for CW or
> > is it keying the K3 directly? That will make a significant
> > difference, and the P3 signal placement will reflect that.
> >
> > We did not consider that you were using a software application to
> > produce CW previously to this post. Know what your software
> > application is doing and you may have the answer to your question.
> >
> > 73,
> > Don W3FPR
> >
> > On 7/25/2019 2:41 PM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:
> > > Hi Don:
> > >
> > > I'm still checking things out but I think I have it all working
> > > together. I calibrated the radio using WWV at 5, 10 and 15 MHz. I
> > > only had to line up one and the other two fell right in. Then I
> > > went to the P3 and lined that up with ref cal. Again, everything
> > > lined up at 5, 10 and 15.
> > >
> > > Then I want back to fldigi which is where I originally noticed the
> > > difference. I have the radio and fldigi set for a CW sidetone of
> > > 600 Hz. When I would tune in the radio for the 600 Hz tone on a
> > > random CW signal, the peak of the P3 trace was right over the
> > > signal and Fldigi showed the signal up at 600 Hz. Everything
> > > matched. This is what I was looking for, the three functions
> > > matching.
> > >
> > > I think I'm in good shape.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>