Elecraft › [K3]

P3 Question

Classic

List

Threaded

8 messages Options

n7ws

P3 Question

When working DX stations that are operating split I much prefer to use the transmit offset (XIT) function rather than using the "Split/A/B" method. This puts all of the needed controls together.

Using my current panadapter setup, an SDR-IQ + SpectraVue, if I want to see where my transmitter is with respect to QRM, I just tap the RIT button to engage both RIT and XIT and the center of the display now shows my TX freq with respect to other signals. Unfortunately, the K3 doesn't report the actual displayed frequency via the "FA" command, which I assume is what SpectraVue uses, so the spectrum display frequency axis still shows the non-shifted frequency.

The foregoing probably answers my own question which is this: will the P3 markers/cursors that show the A and B VFO frequencies account for the case of both RIT and XIT being engaged at the same time?

A related question is why doesn't the K3 just report the actual displayed frequency when queried?

Wes N7WS

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: P3 Question

> The foregoing probably answers my own question which is this: will
> the P3 markers/cursors that show the A and B VFO frequencies account
> for the case of both RIT and XIT being engaged at the same time?

Since the P3 does not operate in transmit, XIT is a moot point but
both the cursor and "current frequency" show the effect of RIT.

> A related question is why doesn't the K3 just report the actual
> displayed frequency when queried?

Because the displayed frequency is the VFO Frequency +/- RIT and
RIT is reported in the IF "broadcast" or in response to RO. It
would be difficult for many computer applications if the "VFO"
frequencies were jumping around between transmit and receive.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2/25/2011 11:05 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> When working DX stations that are operating split I much prefer to
> use the transmit offset (XIT) function rather than using the
> "Split/A/B" method. This puts all of the needed controls together.
>
> Using my current panadapter setup, an SDR-IQ + SpectraVue, if I want
> to see where my transmitter is with respect to QRM, I just tap the
> RIT button to engage both RIT and XIT and the center of the display
> now shows my TX freq with respect to other signals. Unfortunately,
> the K3 doesn't report the actual displayed frequency via the "FA"
> command, which I assume is what SpectraVue uses, so the spectrum
> display frequency axis still shows the non-shifted frequency.
>
> The foregoing probably answers my own question which is this: will
> the P3 markers/cursors that show the A and B VFO frequencies account
> for the case of both RIT and XIT being engaged at the same time?
>
> A related question is why doesn't the K3 just report the actual
> displayed frequency when queried?
>
> Wes N7WS
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list Home:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

n7ws

Re: P3 Question

Inline posting for consistency...

--- On Fri, 2/25/11, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 Question
> To: "Wes Stewart" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 9:39 AM
>
>
> > The foregoing probably answers my own question which
> is this: will
> > the P3 markers/cursors that show the A and B VFO
> frequencies account
> > for the case of both RIT and XIT being engaged at the
> same time?
>
> Since the P3 does not operate in transmit, XIT is a moot
> point but
> both the cursor and "current frequency" show the effect of
> RIT.

Fair enough.

>
> > A related question is why doesn't the K3 just report
> the actual
> > displayed frequency when queried?
>
> Because the displayed frequency is the VFO Frequency +/-
> RIT and
> RIT is reported in the IF "broadcast" or in response to
> RO. It
> would be difficult for many computer applications if the
> "VFO"
> frequencies were jumping around between transmit and
> receive.

Well, if I do use split, my logging program (DXBase) has no problem logging both my (different) TX and RX frequencies. But it does not log correctly if I'm using XIT, even though the displayed TX frequency might be the same in both cases.

If for example, I set my A VFO to 14.010 and set RIT/XIT to +1 KHz, and turn both on, the K3 will now display the frequency as 14.011. To me that is the new "A" frequency, but it will still be reported as 14.010 via the interface.

To me it seems more logical to report to the outside world the displayed frequency, not some internal portion of that frequency.

Regards,

Wes

>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2/25/2011 11:05 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:
> > When working DX stations that are operating split I
> much prefer to
> > use the transmit offset (XIT) function rather than
> using the
> > "Split/A/B" method. This puts all of the needed
> controls together.
> >
> > Using my current panadapter setup, an SDR-IQ +
> SpectraVue, if I want
> > to see where my transmitter is with respect to QRM, I
> just tap the
> > RIT button to engage both RIT and XIT and the center
> of the display
> > now shows my TX freq with respect to other
> signals. Unfortunately,
> > the K3 doesn't report the actual displayed frequency
> via the "FA"
> > command, which I assume is what SpectraVue uses, so
> the spectrum
> > display frequency axis still shows the non-shifted
> frequency.
> >
> > The foregoing probably answers my own question which
> is this: will
> > the P3 markers/cursors that show the A and B VFO
> frequencies account
> > for the case of both RIT and XIT being engaged at the
> same time?
> >
> > A related question is why doesn't the K3 just report
> the actual
> > displayed frequency when queried?
> >
> > Wes N7WS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list Home:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> > mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support
> this
> > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: P3 Question

> To me it seems more logical to report to the outside world the
> displayed frequency, not some internal portion of that frequency.

The K3 (along with Kenwood and recent Yaesu rigs) report the current
VFO frequency and RIT in the IF command. It also reports each VFO
(FA, FB), RIT (RO) and XIT (XO) on demand. A well written logging
program will be able to log the correct frequency with that data.

Relying on "display" data would require the logging software to play
games to read the display during both transmit and receive. In some
cases - with some transceivers - polling during transmit can result
in problems. It is better to report the "pieces" on demand and allow
the logging software to use them as needed.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2/25/2011 1:16 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> Inline posting for consistency...
>
> --- On Fri, 2/25/11, Joe Subich, W4TV<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Joe Subich, W4TV<[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3
>> Question To: "Wes Stewart"<[hidden email]> Cc: "Elecraft
>> Reflector"<[hidden email]> Date: Friday, February 25,
>> 2011, 9:39 AM
>>
>>
>>> The foregoing probably answers my own question which
>> is this: will
>>> the P3 markers/cursors that show the A and B VFO
>> frequencies account
>>> for the case of both RIT and XIT being engaged at the
>> same time?
>>
>> Since the P3 does not operate in transmit, XIT is a moot point but
>> both the cursor and "current frequency" show the effect of RIT.
>
> Fair enough.
>
>>
>>> A related question is why doesn't the K3 just report
>> the actual
>>> displayed frequency when queried?
>>
>> Because the displayed frequency is the VFO Frequency +/- RIT and
>> RIT is reported in the IF "broadcast" or in response to RO. It
>> would be difficult for many computer applications if the "VFO"
>> frequencies were jumping around between transmit and receive.
>
> Well, if I do use split, my logging program (DXBase) has no problem
> logging both my (different) TX and RX frequencies. But it does not
> log correctly if I'm using XIT, even though the displayed TX
> frequency might be the same in both cases.
>
> If for example, I set my A VFO to 14.010 and set RIT/XIT to +1 KHz,
> and turn both on, the K3 will now display the frequency as 14.011.
> To me that is the new "A" frequency, but it will still be reported as
> 14.010 via the interface.
>
> To me it seems more logical to report to the outside world the
> displayed frequency, not some internal portion of that frequency.
>
> Regards,
>
> Wes
>
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 2/25/2011 11:05 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:
>>> When working DX stations that are operating split I
>> much prefer to
>>> use the transmit offset (XIT) function rather than
>> using the
>>> "Split/A/B" method. This puts all of the needed
>> controls together.
>>>
>>> Using my current panadapter setup, an SDR-IQ +
>> SpectraVue, if I want
>>> to see where my transmitter is with respect to QRM, I
>> just tap the
>>> RIT button to engage both RIT and XIT and the center
>> of the display
>>> now shows my TX freq with respect to other
>> signals. Unfortunately,
>>> the K3 doesn't report the actual displayed frequency
>> via the "FA"
>>> command, which I assume is what SpectraVue uses, so
>> the spectrum
>>> display frequency axis still shows the non-shifted
>> frequency.
>>>
>>> The foregoing probably answers my own question which
>> is this: will
>>> the P3 markers/cursors that show the A and B VFO
>> frequencies account
>>> for the case of both RIT and XIT being engaged at the
>> same time?
>>>
>>> A related question is why doesn't the K3 just report
>> the actual
>>> displayed frequency when queried?
>>>
>>> Wes N7WS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list Home:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
>>> mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support
>> this
>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>

N5GE

Re: P3 Question

Joe,

One thing that I'm puzzled about is why it is that most of the posters are
complaining about absolute frequency display and logging, when the requirements
for DXCC awards and contest awards are awarded by band, not frequency. In LOTW
even the time only has to be within 30 minutes to be verified.

It's wonderful to be able to see exactly what frequency you are on and I for one
love it, but some of the best radios I've ever owned had to be calibrated every
25Kc to be accurate and even then resolution of 1 cycle or ten cycles was
unheard of unless you were in an intercept station on some island.

I wonder how we ever found each other to talk to back then?

73,

Tom Childers
Radio Amateur N5GE
Licensed since 1976
QCWA Life Member 35102
ARRL Life Member
Retired Professional
C# Software developer
http://www.n5ge.net

On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 13:56:02 -0500, "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>The K3 (along with Kenwood and recent Yaesu rigs) report the current
>VFO frequency and RIT in the IF command. It also reports each VFO
>(FA, FB), RIT (RO) and XIT (XO) on demand. A well written logging
>program will be able to log the correct frequency with that data.
>
>Relying on "display" data would require the logging software to play
>games to read the display during both transmit and receive. In some
>cases - with some transceivers - polling during transmit can result
>in problems. It is better to report the "pieces" on demand and allow
>the logging software to use them as needed.
>
>73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>

Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

n7ws

Re: P3 Question

Although I resisted using them mightily, it's the 21st Century and this 53 years as a ham occasionally uses Internet spots, mostly to see where the propagation is. Don't try posting one as +/- 10 KHz.

--- On Fri, 2/25/11, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 Question
> To: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Wes Stewart" <[hidden email]>, "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 3:43 PM
> Joe,
>
> One thing that I'm puzzled about is why it is that most of
> the posters are
> complaining about absolute frequency display and logging,
> when the requirements
> for DXCC awards and contest awards are awarded by band, not
> frequency. In LOTW
> even the time only has to be within 30 minutes to be
> verified.
>
> It's wonderful to be able to see exactly what frequency you
> are on and I for one
> love it, but some of the best radios I've ever owned had to
> be calibrated every
> 25Kc to be accurate and even then resolution of 1 cycle or
> ten cycles was
> unheard of unless you were in an intercept station on some
> island.
>
> I wonder how we ever found each other to talk to back
> then?
>
> 73,
>
> Tom Childers
> Radio Amateur N5GE
> Licensed since 1976
> QCWA Life Member 35102
> ARRL Life Member
> Retired Professional
> C# Software developer
> http://www.n5ge.net
>
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 13:56:02 -0500, "Joe Subich, W4TV"
> <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> >The K3 (along with Kenwood and recent Yaesu rigs)
> report the current
> >VFO frequency and RIT in the IF command. It also
> reports each VFO
> >(FA, FB), RIT (RO) and XIT (XO) on demand. A well
> written logging
> >program will be able to log the correct frequency with
> that data.
> >
> >Relying on "display" data would require the logging
> software to play
> >games to read the display during both transmit and
> receive. In some
> >cases - with some transceivers - polling during
> transmit can result
> >in problems. It is better to report the "pieces"
> on demand and allow
> >the logging software to use them as needed.
> >
> >73,
> >
> > ... Joe, W4TV
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: P3 Question

In reply to this post by N5GE

> One thing that I'm puzzled about is why it is that most of the
> posters are complaining about absolute frequency display and logging,
> when the requirements for DXCC awards and contest awards are awarded
> by band, not frequency.

That's changing rather rapidly. In just the last two weeks the
sponsors of the Russian DX Contest announced that all logs must now
include frequency to the nearest KHz in order to be considered for
awards. It is no longer acceptable to simply log 7000, 14000, 21000,
etc.

Still, there is no excuse for software authors to not understand and
properly support the implementation of any supported transceiver -
particularly when the K2, K3, all Kenwood and Yaesu FT-450, FT-950,
FT-2000, FT-5000 and FT-9000 all have the same basic CAT command
configuration (FA, FB, IF, RO and XO).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2/25/2011 5:43 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE wrote:

> Joe,
>
> One thing that I'm puzzled about is why it is that most of the posters are
> complaining about absolute frequency display and logging, when the requirements
> for DXCC awards and contest awards are awarded by band, not frequency. In LOTW
> even the time only has to be within 30 minutes to be verified.
>
> It's wonderful to be able to see exactly what frequency you are on and I for one
> love it, but some of the best radios I've ever owned had to be calibrated every
> 25Kc to be accurate and even then resolution of 1 cycle or ten cycles was
> unheard of unless you were in an intercept station on some island.
>
> I wonder how we ever found each other to talk to back then?
>
> 73,
>
> Tom Childers
> Radio Amateur N5GE
> Licensed since 1976
> QCWA Life Member 35102
> ARRL Life Member
> Retired Professional
> C# Software developer
> http://www.n5ge.net
>
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 13:56:02 -0500, "Joe Subich, W4TV"<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> The K3 (along with Kenwood and recent Yaesu rigs) report the current
>> VFO frequency and RIT in the IF command. It also reports each VFO
>> (FA, FB), RIT (RO) and XIT (XO) on demand. A well written logging
>> program will be able to log the correct frequency with that data.
>>
>> Relying on "display" data would require the logging software to play
>> games to read the display during both transmit and receive. In some
>> cases - with some transceivers - polling during transmit can result
>> in problems. It is better to report the "pieces" on demand and allow
>> the logging software to use them as needed.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>
>

N5GE

Re: P3 Question

In reply to this post by n7ws

Me too Wes.

That's why I wrote my own control program for the K3 along with a Telnet spider
spotting program, log book and rotor control, which also gets the DX call's data
from QRZ. All of which are as accurate as they can possibly be.

73,

Tom Childers
Radio Amateur N5GE
Licensed since 1976
QCWA Life Member 35102
ARRL Life Member
Retired Professional
C# Software developer
http://www.n5ge.net

On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 14:52:49 -0800 (PST), Wes Stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Although I resisted using them mightily, it's the 21st Century and this 53 years as a ham occasionally uses Internet spots, mostly to see where the propagation is. Don't try posting one as +/- 10 KHz.
>
>--- On Fri, 2/25/11, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 Question
>> To: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "Wes Stewart" <[hidden email]>, "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 3:43 PM
>> Joe,
>>
>> One thing that I'm puzzled about is why it is that most of
>> the posters are
>> complaining about absolute frequency display and logging,
>> when the requirements
>> for DXCC awards and contest awards are awarded by band, not
>> frequency. In LOTW
>> even the time only has to be within 30 minutes to be
>> verified.
>>
>> It's wonderful to be able to see exactly what frequency you
>> are on and I for one
>> love it, but some of the best radios I've ever owned had to
>> be calibrated every
>> 25Kc to be accurate and even then resolution of 1 cycle or
>> ten cycles was
>> unheard of unless you were in an intercept station on some
>> island.
>>
>> I wonder how we ever found each other to talk to back
>> then?
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Tom Childers
>> Radio Amateur N5GE
>> Licensed since 1976
>> QCWA Life Member 35102
>> ARRL Life Member
>> Retired Professional
>> C# Software developer
>> http://www.n5ge.net
>>
>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 13:56:02 -0500, "Joe Subich, W4TV"
>> <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The K3 (along with Kenwood and recent Yaesu rigs)
>> report the current
>> >VFO frequency and RIT in the IF command. It also
>> reports each VFO
>> >(FA, FB), RIT (RO) and XIT (XO) on demand. A well
>> written logging
>> >program will be able to log the correct frequency with
>> that data.
>> >
>> >Relying on "display" data would require the logging
>> software to play
>> >games to read the display during both transmit and
>> receive. In some
>> >cases - with some transceivers - polling during
>> transmit can result
>> >in problems. It is better to report the "pieces"
>> on demand and allow
>> >the logging software to use them as needed.
>> >
>> >73,
>> >
>> > ... Joe, W4TV
>> >
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Amateur Radio Operator N5GE