P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

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P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Richard Fjeld
I have been working PSK31 and CW using the message memories in the SVGA adapter.  I have only had my SVGA a short time and have just got around to trying digital modes with it.

I have noticed that random characters are being omitted from Tx even though they show in the transmit box.  A replay will find those same characters okay, but different one(s) will be omitted.  As I say, the characters are at random.

Has anyone else noticed this?  

My computer is not on, so I don't suspect the USB to Serial cable, but maybe I need to check the correct routing of the cables.  Maybe???

Rich, n0ce
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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Paul Saffren N6HZ
Hi Richard,

For sending CW from the keyboard on the SVGA the only cable that needs to be connected is the serial cable between the K3 and the P3.   How do you have the transmit mode set up?  Does it transmit immediately (vox) or is it CR?

73,

Paul
 
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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Richard Fjeld
Thanks for the prompt reply, Paul.

My comment/question about the cable was a passing thought about having the cable plugged into the correct one of two jacks.  I just verified that it is.

The transmit mode is set up for ^T.  Perhaps this is normal, but no matter what mode, it begins to transmit as soon as I call a memory.  Using ^T it also transmits when I begin typing unless I use a ^R.  After using a ^R, I can then use a ^T to have it transmit.

In summary, the memories were being transmitted as soon as I called them.

Rich, n0ce

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Paul Saffren N6HZ
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 2:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx


  Hi Richard,

  For sending CW from the keyboard on the SVGA the only cable that needs to be
  connected is the serial cable between the K3 and the P3.   How do you have
  the transmit mode set up?  Does it transmit immediately (vox) or is it CR?

  73,

  Paul
   



  --
  View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-SVGA-chars-randomly-omitted-during-Tx-tp7572341p7572350.html
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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Paul Saffren N6HZ
Richard,

Messages stored and recalled are sent automatically, regardless of the type of mode (i.e. vox, CR or ^T).  It might make sense to have the message respect the sending mode, let me add it to the bug list.

73,

Paul


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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Richard Fjeld
It was not a problem for me, but it would be nice to see the message before it is transmitted in case a person recalls the wrong message, he would have time to cancel it.

I mentioned how it was being sent in case it wasn't supposed to be that way.

BTW, could a space before, or after, the text in memory cause a fluke?

Thanks again,

Rich, n0ce

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Paul Saffren N6HZ
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 6:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx


  Richard,

  Messages stored and recalled are sent automatically, regardless of the type
  of mode (i.e. vox, CR or ^T).  It might make sense to have the message
  respect the sending mode, let me add it to the bug list.

  73,

  Paul






  --
  View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-SVGA-chars-randomly-omitted-during-Tx-tp7572341p7572365.html
  Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Paul Saffren N6HZ
A space either before or after should not cause any odd behavior.  The only time I have seen this problem is when a computer was connected to the P3/K3 and the K3 terminal utility was running.  But I remember you stated that the computer was not connected to the P3/K3 serial line.  

Just curious, how fast is your WPM set to?  And do the missed characters show in the K3 sub display?

-Paul


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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

David
Paul

When sending from memory everything is fine.  But if sending direct from the keyboard a space is often inserted when one is not required.  Pressing esc clears the display and stops the problem.
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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Richard Fjeld
In reply to this post by Paul Saffren N6HZ
Paul,

To be specific, a RS232 to USB adapter is connected from the P3 to my computer, but I do not have the computer turned on when I am doing digital modes using the SVGA.  I can try pulling this connection at the P3.

The speed I have my K3 set to is 16 wpm.  

As to if the missed characters show in the K3 sub display,  I am quite sure they do not, but I will make sure.  I know I have seen them omitted and the K3 display is the only place I could have seen this.

I catch them being missed audibly as I monitor the tone on CW.   I have had it happen on PSK31 also, and the K3 display is the only way I would know that.

I hope you can correct it as it makes using the message memories undependable.  In the meantime, I will pull the RS232 connection and try it.  I would think if it happens for me, it would happen for you.

Rich, n0ce


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Paul Saffren N6HZ
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 7:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx


  A space either before or after should not cause any odd behavior.  The only
  time I have seen this problem is when a computer was connected to the P3/K3
  and the K3 terminal utility was running.  But I remember you stated that the
  computer was not connected to the P3/K3 serial line.  

  Just curious, how fast is your WPM set to?  And do the missed characters
  show in the K3 sub display?

  -Paul






  --
  View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-SVGA-chars-randomly-omitted-during-Tx-tp7572341p7572412.html
  Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

n6hz
Richard,

Does this only happen with text message (memory) playback?

73,

Paul



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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Richard Fjeld
Paul,

(Sorry for the delay.  I just got in from plowing due to the latest snow storm.)

No.  I typed "the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs."  I sent it twice without noticing an omission, but from then on, every time would have one to three omissions.  I even saw a space between words was omitted also.

This was done with the RS232 to USB adapter removed.  And yes, I am seeing the omissions on the K3 display as well as audibly.

I received a reply from another person who had this problem earlier on.  So, it could be common, or there are two bad circuit boards.

I appreciate your attention to this.  (Maybe later on, you could add a way to have a typed message be sent over again without re-typing it.)

73,

Rich, n0ce

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Paul Saffren
  To: Richard Fjeld
  Cc: [hidden email]
  Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:47 AM
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx


  Richard,

  Does this only happen with text message (memory) playback?

  73,

  Paul


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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Richard Fjeld
In reply to this post by Paul Saffren N6HZ
If anyone is following this thread, I was content with the P3 and had no intentions of getting the SVGA adapter.  When I learned of the digital modes and USB keyboard capability, I added it.  I tried the digital modes enough to like it.  Computer software may give more extras, but I find it fun to rough it without a computer.  I can imagine more refinements to come.

At my age, I find the keyboard is a nice way to send CW because I can see what I am typing, correct my mistakes, and it is transmitted in perfect duration and spacing.   It is good for sending code practice to people as well.
 
Rich, n0ce  

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Paul Saffren N6HZ
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 7:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx


  A space either before or after should not cause any odd behavior.  The only
  time I have seen this problem is when a computer was connected to the P3/K3
  and the K3 terminal utility was running.  But I remember you stated that the
  computer was not connected to the P3/K3 serial line.  

  Just curious, how fast is your WPM set to?  And do the missed characters
  show in the K3 sub display?

  -Paul






  --
  View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-SVGA-chars-randomly-omitted-during-Tx-tp7572341p7572412.html
  Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
  ______________________________________________________________
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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Stewart Bryant
Is there any resolution on this.

I installed the SVGA last night and I am finding
that the P3 sometimes finds the keyboard, mostly
does not, and sometimes finds keys, but not always
and sometimes misses characters from the playout
buffer.

I am off to find another keyboard to see how
many of the problems this fixes, but I am
somewhat concerned by the note in the SVGA manual:

"Most PC keyboards using an USB connection will work w
ith the P3 SVGA. Apple keyboards are not supported
at this time. "

Which implies some uncertainly over keyboard selection.

Stewart


On 12/04/2013 02:14, Richard Fjeld wrote:

> If anyone is following this thread, I was content with the P3 and had no intentions of getting the SVGA adapter.  When I learned of the digital modes and USB keyboard capability, I added it.  I tried the digital modes enough to like it.  Computer software may give more extras, but I find it fun to rough it without a computer.  I can imagine more refinements to come.
>
> At my age, I find the keyboard is a nice way to send CW because I can see what I am typing, correct my mistakes, and it is transmitted in perfect duration and spacing.   It is good for sending code practice to people as well.
>
> Rich, n0ce
>
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From: Paul Saffren N6HZ
>    To: [hidden email]
>    Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 7:38 PM
>    Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx
>
>
>    A space either before or after should not cause any odd behavior.  The only
>    time I have seen this problem is when a computer was connected to the P3/K3
>    and the K3 terminal utility was running.  But I remember you stated that the
>    computer was not connected to the P3/K3 serial line.
>
>    Just curious, how fast is your WPM set to?  And do the missed characters
>    show in the K3 sub display?
>
>    -Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    --
>    View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-SVGA-chars-randomly-omitted-during-Tx-tp7572341p7572412.html
>    Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>    ______________________________________________________________
>    Elecraft mailing list
>    Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>    Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>    Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>    This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>    Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Paul Saffren N6HZ
Hi Stewart,

We, along with many of our customers have had very good luck with the Logitech K360 Wireless keyboard.  It can often be found very inexpensively online.    Stay away from keyboards that have built in mice, or what are call "composite devices."  The SVGA USB driver does not support these, nor does it support external hubs.

73,

Paul

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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Stewart Bryant
Thanks Paul, I have ordered one of these, but I now have a doubt.

The issue with keyboard selection is seemingly with the keyboard mapping - won't this be different with a British keyboard?

Should I have waited and got one when I am next in the US?

Stewart

Sent from my iPad

On 11 Sep 2013, at 18:11, Paul Saffren N6HZ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Stewart,
>
> We, along with many of our customers have had very good luck with the
> Logitech K360 Wireless keyboard.  It can often be found very inexpensively
> online.    Stay away from keyboards that have built in mice, or what are
> call "composite devices."  The SVGA USB driver does not support these, nor
> does it support external hubs.
>
> 73,
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-SVGA-chars-randomly-omitted-during-Tx-tp7572341p7578826.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Charlie T, K3ICH
Naw, just remember to always drive on the left side of the keyboard and
you'll do fine.

Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
To: "Paul Saffren N6HZ" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx


> Thanks Paul, I have ordered one of these, but I now have a doubt.
>
> The issue with keyboard selection is seemingly with the keyboard mapping -
> won't this be different with a British keyboard?
>
> Should I have waited and got one when I am next in the US?
>
> Stewart
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 11 Sep 2013, at 18:11, Paul Saffren N6HZ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Stewart,
>>
>> We, along with many of our customers have had very good luck with the
>> Logitech K360 Wireless keyboard.  It can often be found very
>> inexpensively
>> online.    Stay away from keyboards that have built in mice, or what are
>> call "composite devices."  The SVGA USB driver does not support these,
>> nor
>> does it support external hubs.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-SVGA-chars-randomly-omitted-during-Tx-tp7572341p7578826.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 

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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Stewart Bryant
That is not a helpful response to what is actually a serious question!

Is the key map issue such that not only do we need to use one of a relatively restricted set of keyboards, but also the keyboards for one particular country are required? The symbols on the keys are different in different countries, and my guess is that this is resolved in the key map in the driver on the computer, rather than the k/b h/w.

To compound the potential for annoyance here, keyboards have a much shorter life than radios, and so many users will need to replace their keyboard at some stage. However the key mapping for even US keyboards of a particular brand may change over time, after all in their normal mode of operation, all that is required to support a revised h/w mapping is that a new mapping file is shipped to one OS company.

Stewart


Sent from my iPad

On 12 Sep 2013, at 00:42, "Charlie T, K3ICH" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Naw, just remember to always drive on the left side of the keyboard and you'll do fine.
>
> Chas
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Paul Saffren N6HZ" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 6:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx
>
>
>> Thanks Paul, I have ordered one of these, but I now have a doubt.
>>
>> The issue with keyboard selection is seemingly with the keyboard mapping - won't this be different with a British keyboard?
>>
>> Should I have waited and got one when I am next in the US?
>>
>> Stewart
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 11 Sep 2013, at 18:11, Paul Saffren N6HZ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Stewart,
>>>
>>> We, along with many of our customers have had very good luck with the
>>> Logitech K360 Wireless keyboard.  It can often be found very inexpensively
>>> online.    Stay away from keyboards that have built in mice, or what are
>>> call "composite devices."  The SVGA USB driver does not support these, nor
>>> does it support external hubs.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-SVGA-chars-randomly-omitted-during-Tx-tp7572341p7578826.html
>>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Paul Saffren N6HZ
In reply to this post by Stewart Bryant
Stewart,

You are correct in that the SVGA keyboard interface maps to a US
keyboard.    Unfortunately we did not have the room to include mappings
for all the international key maps.  I think there are only a few keys
that are different on the UK keyboard.   Let's see what happens when you
get the K360 installed.

73,

Paul

Paul Saffren - N6HZ
Project Manager
Elecraft Inc.
831-763-4211 x122
www.elecraft.com

On 9/11/2013 3:27 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Thanks Paul, I have ordered one of these, but I now have a doubt.
>
> The issue with keyboard selection is seemingly with the keyboard mapping - won't this be different with a British keyboard?
>
> Should I have waited and got one when I am next in the US?
>
> Stewart
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 11 Sep 2013, at 18:11, Paul Saffren N6HZ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Stewart,
>>
>> We, along with many of our customers have had very good luck with the
>> Logitech K360 Wireless keyboard.  It can often be found very inexpensively
>> online.    Stay away from keyboards that have built in mice, or what are
>> call "composite devices."  The SVGA USB driver does not support these, nor
>> does it support external hubs.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-SVGA-chars-randomly-omitted-during-Tx-tp7572341p7578826.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: P3 SVGA; chars randomly omitted during Tx

Stewart Bryant
The British Logitec 360 mostly works. Certainly it functions
much better that the generic windows  KB I got from
Amazon a couple of days ago.

As was noted to me by another G, a couple of the keys
are swapped and I can like with that, however the one
key I cannot seem to find is the "|" which is used
to immediately end transmission and return to receive.

Stewart/G3YSX

On 12/09/2013 17:11, Paul Saffren wrote:

> Stewart,
>
> You are correct in that the SVGA keyboard interface maps to a US
> keyboard.    Unfortunately we did not have the room to include mappings
> for all the international key maps.  I think there are only a few keys
> that are different on the UK keyboard.   Let's see what happens when you
> get the K360 installed.
>
> 73,
>
> Paul
>
> Paul Saffren - N6HZ
> Project Manager
> Elecraft Inc.
> 831-763-4211 x122
> www.elecraft.com
>
> On 9/11/2013 3:27 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Thanks Paul, I have ordered one of these, but I now have a doubt.
>>
>> The issue with keyboard selection is seemingly with the keyboard
>> mapping - won't this be different with a British keyboard?
>>
>> Should I have waited and got one when I am next in the US?
>>
>> Stewart
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 11 Sep 2013, at 18:11, Paul Saffren N6HZ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Stewart,
>>>
>>> We, along with many of our customers have had very good luck with the
>>> Logitech K360 Wireless keyboard.  It can often be found very
>>> inexpensively
>>> online.    Stay away from keyboards that have built in mice, or what are
>>> call "composite devices."  The SVGA USB driver does not support
>>> these, nor
>>> does it support external hubs.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-SVGA-chars-randomly-omitted-during-Tx-tp7572341p7578826.html
>>>
>>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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>
>

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