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P3 "Tuning Noise"

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k6dgw

P3 "Tuning Noise"

OK folks, I'm just curious, whether or not I should have a glass of wine
with dinner is a much bigger deal for me than this so I don't want to
start a big thread, but ...

I've noticed, just recently, that when I'm spinning the Big knob on the
K3 fast, or even not so fast, the apparent noise level on the K3
spectrum display seems to rise just a little [I don't use the W'fall, I
can't see most of it]. When I stop turning the knob, the trace settled
back to band noise. Happens all bands [that I've tried]. P3 works just
fine, K3 works just fine, KPA500 works just fine, I've got a few new
ones including the "Survivor Island" on several bands, I'm just curious.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
- www.cqp.org
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Jim Brown-10

Re: P3 "Tuning Noise"

On 10/26/2011 5:02 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

I may have been the first to discover this several years ago, and Wayne
worked out a band-aid to fix it. I mostly heard it on 6M. It's a couple
of resistors and a couple of diodes that can be soldered from the bottom
of the main board. They're even generic parts! Just pull the bottom
panel to access it. There's a pdf on the website with nice photos and
instructions. Once you've done that, you change a setting in one of the
setup menus. Still have to do it with one of my K3s.

73, Jim K9YC
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Grant Youngman

Re: P3 "Tuning Noise"

In reply to this post by k6dgw

What you see in the display when not tuning is the time-averaged noise (or signal), depending on how you have the averaging parameter set. When you're tuning rapidly the P3 can't average, so the level appears to rise. It's rising toward the actual peak noise level.

Grant/NQ5T

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 26, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> OK folks, I'm just curious, whether or not I should have a glass of wine
> with dinner is a much bigger deal for me than this so I don't want to
> start a big thread, but ...
>
> I've noticed, just recently, that when I'm spinning the Big knob on the
> K3 fast, or even not so fast, the apparent noise level on the K3
> spectrum display seems to rise just a little [I don't use the W'fall, I
> can't see most of it]. When I stop turning the knob, the trace settled
> back to band noise. Happens all bands [that I've tried]. P3 works just
> fine, K3 works just fine, KPA500 works just fine, I've got a few new
> ones including the "Survivor Island" on several bands, I'm just curious.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
> - www.cqp.org
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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k6dgw

Re: P3 "Tuning Noise"

Thanks, that's it! The higher I set the averaging, the more I see the
effect since the band noise on the baseline gets compressed with more
averaging.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
- www.cqp.org

On 10/26/2011 5:41 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:
> What you see in the display when not tuning is the time-averaged
> noise (or signal), depending on how you have the averaging parameter
> set. When you're tuning rapidly the P3 can't average, so the level
> appears to rise. It's rising toward the actual peak noise level.
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Robby.VY2SS

Re: P3 "Tuning Noise"

In reply to this post by k6dgw

Fred,
Don't look at the P3 when you are fast tuning the K3.
The K3 seems to require a lot more dial winding than any other rig I have ever had. Not that I'm switching back to anything. I sure do miss triple bandstacking registers.

-Robby
VY2SS

Alan Bloom

Re: P3 "Tuning Noise"

In reply to this post by k6dgw

Note that the P3 only turns off averaging when tuning if it is in
tracking mode. It doesn't happen in fixed-tune mode.

Alan N1AL

On Thu, 2011-10-27 at 11:28 -0700, Fred Jensen wrote:

> Thanks, that's it! The higher I set the averaging, the more I see the
> effect since the band noise on the baseline gets compressed with more
> averaging.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
> - www.cqp.org
>
> On 10/26/2011 5:41 PM, Grant Youngman wrote:
> > What you see in the display when not tuning is the time-averaged
> > noise (or signal), depending on how you have the averaging parameter
> > set. When you're tuning rapidly the P3 can't average, so the level
> > appears to rise. It's rising toward the actual peak noise level.
> ______________________________________________________________
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k6dgw

Re: P3 "Tuning Noise"

In reply to this post by Robby.VY2SS

Not sure I follow. Tapping my FINE button [which I can do with my
finger while hand is on knob] toggles between 1Hz and 10Hz rates.
Holding FINE makes it a 100Hz rate which takes me from one end of the
band to the other at about half the velocity of light. I also
discovered, thanks to KE7X's book, that I can change the basic rates in
the menu. I fooled with it some, went back to the defaults. In fact,
that's been my general observation ... the K3 is pretty well optimized
right out of the box.

You're in my log 16 times! Thanks for all the Q's.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
- www.cqp.org

On 10/27/2011 11:29 AM, Robby.VY2SS wrote:
> Fred,
> Don't look at the P3 when you are fast tuning the K3.
> The K3 seems to require a lot more dial winding than any other rig I have
> ever had. Not that I'm switching back to anything. I sure do miss triple
> bandstacking registers.
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Rick Prather-2

Re: P3 "Tuning Noise"

In reply to this post by Robby.VY2SS

Robby,

Do you have your Quick Memories set up? For me they are at least as useful as the band stacking registers I had on my previous radio.

Rick
K6LE

On 10/27/2011, at 11:29 , Robby.VY2SS wrote:

> Fred,
> Don't look at the P3 when you are fast tuning the K3.
> The K3 seems to require a lot more dial winding than any other rig I have
> ever had. Not that I'm switching back to anything. I sure do miss triple
> bandstacking registers.
>
> -Robby
> VY2SS
>
> --

Jim Brown-10

Re: P3 "Tuning Noise"

In reply to this post by k6dgw

On 10/27/2011 11:28 AM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> The higher I set the averaging, the more I see the
> effect since the band noise on the baseline gets compressed with more
> averaging.

That's when you want the Fixed Tune mode in the P3. Averaging has the
effect of maximizing signals and minimizing purely random noise. The
display stays in the same frequency range, while you tune across it.
This way, the average does not reset as you tune, so you see the noise
stay down. FAR more useful. You need a version of the P3 firmware
that's newer than about 9 months. V1.09, I think, is when it was
introduced.

73, Jim K9YC
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John Oppenheimer

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by Rick Prather-2

> Do you have your Quick Memories set up? For me they are at least as useful as the band stacking registers I had on my previous radio.

Not really, as they only go back to the last saved location, therefore
requiring a save if one wants to go back to the last mode frequency.

It would be nice if there was an option for the MODE up/down switch to
go to the last frequency (along with all other settings) for that band
and mode. Maybe a third option in the new MODE control option suite to
keep SPLIT on.

Example CONFIG Menu option suggestion:

MODE FRQ : OFF : If set to ON, Mode change will change frequency
settings (VFO A and B) to the last frequency for the mode. If set to
ON+SPLIT, will also set SPLIT to ON if appropriate.

I too miss the Icom band stacking registers.

John, KN5L
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Gary, W7TEA

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

I used an Omni VII for several years and while the receiver specs aren't up to K3 standards, it had three features that I miss on the K3.

Band stacking registers-four per band
Separate volume settings for Spot and Sidetone
An external heat sink so that fans are not necessary

73,

Gary W7TEA K3 #1001, #5763

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

If you do not normally use the M1 thru M4 memory buttons, you can use
them a pseudo band-stacking memories within each band.
If you are tuned to a frequency that you may want to return to, tap V>M
and then tap one of the M1-4 buttons - that frequency/mode/etc will be
stored. To return, tap M>V and the button you stored into initially.
Quick and easy once you get accustomed to it even though it is a 2
button operation. You can save up to 4 frequencies on any one band.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/29/2011 10:10 AM, Gary, W7TEA wrote:
> I used an Omni VII for several years and while the receiver specs aren't up
> to K3 standards, it had three features that I miss on the K3.
>
> Band stacking registers-four per band
> Separate volume settings for Spot and Sidetone
> An external heat sink so that fans are not necessary
>
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Rick Prather-2

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by Gary, W7TEA

I also had an Omni VII previously and, as I said, I prefer the quick memories on the K3.

The four separate buttons were nice on the Omni VII but they took you back to the last frequency you were on in that position. Whereas, the Quick Memories on the K3 ( I have M1 set for CW, M2 SSB, M3 PSK and M4 RTTY ) take me to my favorite spot for that mode.

As far as the heat sink is concerned Gary, I still used an external fan for RTTY since the heat sink would get plenty hot. It's much more convenient for me to have the fans on the K3 and not mess with the external. I guess I could have bought the optional fan for the Omni VII but, of course, I don't need it for the K3.

Rick
K6LE

On 10/29/2011, at 7:10 , Gary, W7TEA wrote:

Dave Perry N4QS

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by Gary, W7TEA

Yes, I greatly miss the band stacking registers in my old TS850S. As I
recall, the feature was actually called Quick Memories. You could hit one
button and it would store up to 5 quick memories. You then could hit Memory
Recall and you could use one of the rotary knobs to cycle back and forth
between the five memories. I used this feature a lot in contests and just
in general DXing in that it enabled me to easily cycle back and forth
between various pileups or spots. The 5 quick memories were not limited to
the same bands or modes.

All of the M1 to M4 memories in my K3 are used up on each band to enable me
to cycle through the CW, RTTY and SSB portions of the bands. So I can't use
those. The first 10 numbered memories are used to change bands (e.g. I use
01 to QSY to 160M, 02 to 80M, etc.).

So I would like to make an official request for a new band stacking or quick
memory feature in the K3. There should be a way to store up to 5 quick
memories across the same or multiple bands and modes (including splits).
Then with the touch of a Memory Recall button, you should have the ability
to cycle back and forth between the four or five stored memories using
either the M1 to M4 keys or VFO B knob or some other simple series of
buttons. When you have five memories stored, and add a 6th memory by
hitting the store memory button again, the newest memory goes into the quick
memory 1 slot and all of the previous memories move up one slot -- with the
previous 5th memory being deleted or cycled out of the band stack. What
made the feature so useful was that it took one button click to store a
memory and it took button click to go into Quick Memory Recall mode so that
you could easily cycle back and forth between the five stored memories using
one rotary knob.

I love my K3 and the only feature that I think it lacks is this sort of a
band stacking or quick memory recall function. I am working some casual DX
in the CQ WW SSB test this morning, and I have no way to store memories in
the K3 so that I can cycle back and forth between pileups. If there is a
way to do it, please let me know.

Dave, N4QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary, W7TEA" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 band stacking suggestion

>I used an Omni VII for several years and while the receiver specs aren't up
> to K3 standards, it had three features that I miss on the K3.
>
> Band stacking registers-four per band
> Separate volume settings for Spot and Sidetone
> An external heat sink so that fans are not necessary
>
>
>
> -----
> 73,
>
> Gary W7TEA K3 #1001
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-Tuning-Noise-tp6934706p6943374.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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Dave Perry N4QS

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Don,

This solution doesn't work for me since I have all M1 - M4 buttons used on
all bands from 160 through 6 meters to allow me to quickly go to the CW ,
RTTY, and SSB portions of the bands. I use these stored sub-band memories
all the time. I suppose one workaround would be to use the M1 to M4
memories like you suggest in a contest, and then use the K3 Freq Memory
Editor to restore the sub-band memories once the contest is over.

Still, this is not a true band stacking feature -- which should require only
one button to store and one to recall the memories with the ability to cycle
back and forth between the quick memories.

Dave, N4QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 band stacking suggestion

> If you do not normally use the M1 thru M4 memory buttons, you can use
> them a pseudo band-stacking memories within each band.
> If you are tuned to a frequency that you may want to return to, tap V>M
> and then tap one of the M1-4 buttons - that frequency/mode/etc will be
> stored. To return, tap M>V and the button you stored into initially.
> Quick and easy once you get accustomed to it even though it is a 2
> button operation. You can save up to 4 frequencies on any one band.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 10/29/2011 10:10 AM, Gary, W7TEA wrote:
>> I used an Omni VII for several years and while the receiver specs aren't
>> up
>> to K3 standards, it had three features that I miss on the K3.
>>
>> Band stacking registers-four per band
>> Separate volume settings for Spot and Sidetone
>> An external heat sink so that fans are not necessary
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

John Oppenheimer

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

Based on the replies, the MODE button may not be used much once the
quick memories are set up.

Why not a CONFIG menu option which converts the MODE button to cycle
through two or four band memories. Three options to the MODE CONFIG
option; OFF, BM2, BM4.

John, KN5L
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Dave Perry N4QS

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

Good idea!

Dave, N4QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Oppenheimer" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 band stacking suggestion

> Based on the replies, the MODE button may not be used much once the
> quick memories are set up.
>
> Why not a CONFIG menu option which converts the MODE button to cycle
> through two or four band memories. Three options to the MODE CONFIG
> option; OFF, BM2, BM4.
>
> John, KN5L
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Udo Langenohl - DK5YA

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by John Oppenheimer

A very good idea!

Udo, DK5YA

On 29.10.2011 18:18, John Oppenheimer wrote:

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Rick Prather-2

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by John Oppenheimer

That might work for me.

Rick
K6LE

On 10/29/2011, at 9:18 , John Oppenheimer wrote:

> Based on the replies, the MODE button may not be used much once the
> quick memories are set up.
>
> Why not a CONFIG menu option which converts the MODE button to cycle
> through two or four band memories. Three options to the MODE CONFIG
> option; OFF, BM2, BM4.
>
> John, KN5L
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drewko

Re: K3 band stacking suggestion

In reply to this post by Dave Perry N4QS

If there were some memory manipulation commands in the K3 macro set a
lot of stuff could be done... Like shifting banks of freqs into the
0-9 quick memory space. You could have a a bank of CW, another of SSB,
another of RTTY, SWL, AM Bcst, etc. You could have ten band stacking
memory pairs in 0-9...

If we had just two macro commands: one to copy the 0-9 quick memories
to another portion of frequency memory (say 90-99); and another to
restore 90-99 back to quick memory, then you could use the 0-9 keys
for temporary band stacking operations knowing you'd always be able to
restore your saved M>V band switching with a push of a button. While
you were using 0-9 memories for band stacking you'd still be able to
change bands with the BAND switch.

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 10:53:05 -0500, Dave, N4QS wrote:

>Yes, I greatly miss the band stacking registers in my old TS850S. As I
>recall, the feature was actually called Quick Memories. You could hit one
>button and it would store up to 5 quick memories. You then could hit Memory
>Recall and you could use one of the rotary knobs to cycle back and forth
>between the five memories. I used this feature a lot in contests and just
>in general DXing in that it enabled me to easily cycle back and forth
>between various pileups or spots. The 5 quick memories were not limited to
>the same bands or modes.
>
>All of the M1 to M4 memories in my K3 are used up on each band to enable me
>to cycle through the CW, RTTY and SSB portions of the bands. So I can't use
>those. The first 10 numbered memories are used to change bands (e.g. I use
>01 to QSY to 160M, 02 to 80M, etc.).
>
>So I would like to make an official request for a new band stacking or quick
>memory feature in the K3. There should be a way to store up to 5 quick
>memories across the same or multiple bands and modes (including splits).
>Then with the touch of a Memory Recall button, you should have the ability
>to cycle back and forth between the four or five stored memories using
>either the M1 to M4 keys or VFO B knob or some other simple series of
>buttons. When you have five memories stored, and add a 6th memory by
>hitting the store memory button again, the newest memory goes into the quick
>memory 1 slot and all of the previous memories move up one slot -- with the
>previous 5th memory being deleted or cycled out of the band stack. What
>made the feature so useful was that it took one button click to store a
>memory and it took button click to go into Quick Memory Recall mode so that
>you could easily cycle back and forth between the five stored memories using
>one rotary knob.
>
>I love my K3 and the only feature that I think it lacks is this sort of a
>band stacking or quick memory recall function. I am working some casual DX
>in the CQ WW SSB test this morning, and I have no way to store memories in
>the K3 so that I can cycle back and forth between pileups. If there is a
>way to do it, please let me know.
>
>Dave, N4QS
>