P3 Ubdate
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Well interesting discussion. I live in the city and have considerable noise on the bands and a noise blanker update to the SVGA would be very helpful. Being able to scroll up and down the monitor like MMTTY with a time stamp would make the P3 much more useful for digital modes. Being able to monitor output signal would be awesome. There were a lot of promises made for the P3 in the past and I'm hopeful that Elecraft will be able to complete the project. It's always a good idea to improve a product and Elecraft has been good about that in the past. If Elecraft could improve the functionality of the P3 I would for one be willing to pay for the update. 73
______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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There is a big difference between "That could possibly be done" and
"Yes, we will include it at some later time" and "We have committed resources to bring it into production in a timely manner". AFAIK, the P3 now has all the features and functions that are mentioned in the advertizing and descriptions of its capabilities. The fact that added functions have been mentioned on this reflector, but have not made it into the product advertizements and specifications does not mean that the P3 is "incomplete". Anyone who purchased a P3 based on anything in excess of the functions advertized at the time of purchase should not be disappointed when additional functions are talked about but are not yet reality. A parallel example is my requests that the K2/K3/KX3 keying include Ultimatic mode. I have been told in the past that it is being considered, but it has not yet materialized. I do not think of that as making the K3 internal keyer "incomplete" - only that other things need attention from the limited Elecraft engineering staff than my request for Ultimatic keying. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/5/2014 8:40 PM, W0SZ wrote: > Well interesting discussion. I live in the city and have considerable noise on the bands and a noise blanker update to the SVGA would be very helpful. Being able to scroll up and down the monitor like MMTTY with a time stamp would make the P3 much more useful for digital modes. Being able to monitor output signal would be awesome. There were a lot of promises made for the P3 in the past and I'm hopeful that Elecraft will be able to complete the project. It's always a good idea to improve a product and Elecraft has been good about that in the past. If Elecraft could improve the functionality of the P3 I would for one be willing to pay for the update. 73 > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Stephen Zumbrun
I’ll throw in my request for Ultimatic mode too! Lest the Elecraft folks run out of things to do… :)
> On Dec 5, 2014, at 9:53 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote: > > There is a big difference between "That could possibly be done" and "Yes, we will include it at some later time" and "We have committed resources to bring it into production in a timely manner". > > AFAIK, the P3 now has all the features and functions that are mentioned in the advertizing and descriptions of its capabilities. > > The fact that added functions have been mentioned on this reflector, but have not made it into the product advertizements and specifications does not mean that the P3 is "incomplete". > > Anyone who purchased a P3 based on anything in excess of the functions advertized at the time of purchase should not be disappointed when additional functions are talked about but are not yet reality. > > A parallel example is my requests that the K2/K3/KX3 keying include Ultimatic mode. I have been told in the past that it is being considered, but it has not yet materialized. I do not think of that as making the K3 internal keyer "incomplete" - only that other things need attention from the limited Elecraft engineering staff than my request for Ultimatic keying. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > Steve - KY7K [hidden email] Get OUT and play radio! ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
Well said!
Bill W2BLC K-Line ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> AFAIK, the P3 now has all the features and functions that are mentioned in the advertizing and descriptions of its capabilities. And yet, reserving as we do the right to practice random acts of wizardry, new things *will* materialize, a feature here, a mod there…. W ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Yes, as if out of a hat :-)
73, Phil W7OX On 12/6/14 10:46 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> AFAIK, the P3 now has all the features and functions that are mentioned in the advertizing and descriptions of its capabilities. > And yet, reserving as we do the right to practice random acts of wizardry, new things *will* materialize, a feature here, a mod there…. > > W ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
Don W3FPR wrote:
> >A parallel example is my requests that the K2/K3/KX3 keying include >Ultimatic mode. I have been told in the past that it is being >considered, but it has not yet materialized. I do not think of that as >making the K3 internal keyer "incomplete" - only that other things need >attention from the limited Elecraft engineering staff than my request >for Ultimatic keying. > Sorry, but I am no longer feeling so generous about and further delays to features that have been waiting "on the list" for 7 years now. Given that the K3 aims to be the world's best CW transceiver, "incomplete" seems a very appropriate word for an internal keyer that offers fewer alternative timing options than a $6 WinKey. For anyone who isn't already attuned to Curtis A or Curtis B modes, the K3's internal keyer is of little use. The obvious remedy is to plug in a separate keyer - and of course many people do, although that reduces the much-vaunted portability of the K3 (and the KX3, even more so). But the internal keyer remains mandatory for paddle-sent RTTY or PSK. Normal datamode keyboard speeds are 40-50wpm, so most paddle users will try to send as close as possible to their personal top speed. This is where the internal keyer needs to offer the maximum possible support for alternative timing modes... and that support isn't there. User support has to start inside the transceiver itself, with the facilities that it provides for everyday use. From both points of view - the facilities that one expects in a premium transceiver, and fact that the internal keyer is sometimes mandatory - the internal keyer really does need attention. 73 from Ian GM3SEK ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I agree wholeheartedly with you there, Ian. It does seem that when a
new product comes out, existing products take a back seat and cease to be updated. Let's hope that no new products are released before the K3, KX3, etc have been attended to. The KX3 has some features that the K3 ought to have. To cite another example, DTMF keying in FM mode is available on the KX3, but when I use my K3 to access international repeaters on 2m I need to use a cumbersome external key pad held close to the microphone. We are told that this is "on the list" but I wonder what else is on the list awaiting attention. [soap box mode - off ;-)] 73 de David G4DMP In a recent message, Ian White <[hidden email]> writes > >Sorry, but I am no longer feeling so generous about and further delays >to features that have been waiting "on the list" for 7 years now. > >Given that the K3 aims to be the world's best CW transceiver, >"incomplete" seems a very appropriate word .... >User support has to start inside the transceiver itself, with the >facilities that it provides for everyday use. From both points of view - >the facilities that one expects in a premium transceiver .... >does need attention. -- + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + | David M Pratt, Kippax, Leeds. | | Website: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by gm3sek
Re first bottom quoted paragraph, Windows doesn't come with a fully paid
version of MS Word. It has Wordpad as its built in word processor. There are differences in that Elecraft don't sell an standalone keyer, but in my experience, multi-function products happen when marketing departments cannot come up with any real innovations. Re the second quoted paragraph, this is basically not true, as for example demonstrated by <http://fermi.la.asu.edu/w9cf/articles/ultimatic.pdf>. Any well timed twin paddle mode can be converted fairly easily. In the case of ultimatic, it would seem that an SSI approach is quite possible, but, if you have access to the source code, and a spare pin, only a few extra lines will be needed on any microprocessor based keyer. The bug mode is a different matter, because the dashes are, essentially, straight keyed. However, if the K3 had bug mode added, I'd also expect it to have straight key added, as the same problems would have to be solved there. There seems to be an Arduino based open source keyer at <http://sourceforge.net/p/k3ngarduinocwke/code/ci/master/tree/> that could, presumably, be adapted. -- David Woolley Owner K2 06123 On 06/12/14 23:33, Ian White wrote: > > Given that the K3 aims to be the world's best CW transceiver, > "incomplete" seems a very appropriate word for an internal keyer that > offers fewer alternative timing options than a $6 WinKey. For anyone who > isn't already attuned to Curtis A or Curtis B modes, the K3's internal > keyer is of little use. The obvious remedy is to plug in a separate > keyer - and of course many people do, although that reduces the > much-vaunted portability of the K3 (and the KX3, even more so). > > But the internal keyer remains mandatory for paddle-sent RTTY or PSK. > Normal datamode keyboard speeds are 40-50wpm, so most paddle users will > try to send as close as possible to their personal top speed. This is > where the internal keyer needs to offer the maximum possible support for > alternative timing modes... and that support isn't there. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by David Pratt
I have a three year old Toyota RAV - it is a reasonably good car.
However, I went to the dealership the other day and looked at the newest models. They have many updates that I would like on my car. Using the logic shown regarding K3/P3 etc. updates - perhaps I should demand that Toyota update my three year old car to the level of the newest model. Bill W2BLC K-Line ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by David Woolley (E.L)
With limited time and budget for K3 updates, priority should go to features that would be useful to the majority of owners.
With no disrespect to those who use Ultimatic mode, programming the K3 would for should be WAY down on the list, if at all on the list. How many folks use Ultimatic mode - 1 in 1000? 1 in 10000? If that's your niche, continue to use your external keyer. Barry W2UP |
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In reply to this post by Bill-3
Bad example Bill... If your car had a software update, chances are it
would be available... I can wait on a P3 update... I would rather see K3 updates... -- Thanks and 73's, For equipment, and software setups and reviews see: www.nk7z.net for MixW support see; http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info for Dopplergram information see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info for MM-SSTV see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info On Sun, 2014-12-07 at 09:04 -0500, W2BLC wrote: > I have a three year old Toyota RAV - it is a reasonably good car. > However, I went to the dealership the other day and looked at the newest > models. They have many updates that I would like on my car. Using the > logic shown regarding K3/P3 etc. updates - perhaps I should demand that > Toyota update my three year old car to the level of the newest model. > > Bill W2BLC K-Line > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Sorry to disappoint David, but the majority of the updates actually
involve firmware/software updates - involving the "convenience" factors of the vehicle. Hence, it is good example and stands. Bill W2BLC K-Line ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Bill-3
If that is Toyota's business model, the yes, of course. It is Elecraft's model, so it's not unreasonable to expect it. It was a big part of my buying decision.
73, Mike NF4L > On Dec 7, 2014, at 9:04 AM, W2BLC <[hidden email]> wrote: > > I have a three year old Toyota RAV - it is a reasonably good car. However, I went to the dealership the other day and looked at the newest models. They have many updates that I would like on my car. Using the logic shown regarding K3/P3 etc. updates - perhaps I should demand that Toyota update my three year old car to the level of the newest model. > > Bill W2BLC K-Line > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Barry
Good point, Barry. My external keyers generally
have way more capability in other ways too (e.g., memories). And with the K3 using an external keyer makes good sense -- less so with a portable KX3. 73, Phil W7OX On 12/7/14 6:06 AM, Barry wrote: > With limited time and budget for K3 updates, priority should go to features > that would be useful to the majority of owners. > > With no disrespect to those who use Ultimatic mode, programming the K3 would > for should be WAY down on the list, if at all on the list. How many folks > use Ultimatic mode - 1 in 1000? 1 in 10000? If that's your niche, continue > to use your external keyer. > > Barry W2UP > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by NK7Z
Perhaps -- but you may have to wait awhile for
replacement of a Takata airbag :-) Phil W7OX On 12/7/14 6:11 AM, David Cole wrote: > Bad example Bill... If your car had a software update, chances are it > would be available... > > I can wait on a P3 update... I would rather see K3 updates... ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Bill-3
Hi,
I disagree, but I am not insane about it... :) -- Thanks and 73's, For equipment, and software setups and reviews see: www.nk7z.net for MixW support see; http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info for Dopplergram information see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info for MM-SSTV see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by David Woolley (E.L)
> Any well timed twin paddle mode can be converted fairly easily. In > the case of ultimatic, it would seem that an SSI approach is quite > possible, but, if you have access to the source code, and a spare > pin, only a few extra lines will be needed on any microprocessor > based keyer. If one is considering added modes for the K3 keyer, one often overlooked mode that should be considered *in addition to* Ultimatic is CMOS Super Keyer/Logikeyer. One can think of Logikeyer as "Iambic C" ... In Iambic A the decision to add the opposite element is made at the *end* of the previous element. In Iambic B the decision to add the opposite element is made at the *beginning* of the previous element. In Iambic C (Logikeyer) the decision to add the opposite element is made at the end of the first *dit period* - the decision to add a dah is the same as Iambic A while the decision to add a dit occurs 1/3 of the way through the dah (a slightly relaxed Iambic B). > The bug mode is a different matter, because the dashes are, > essentially, straight keyed. However, if the K3 had bug mode added, > I'd also expect it to have straight key added, as the same problems > would have to be solved there. Since the K3 has separate paddle and straight key inputs, one might be able to use *two cables* with paddles to create a bug mode - connect the dit contact to the dit input (tip) of the paddle jack and connect the dah contact to the straight key input ... or just use a bug <G>. Anyone want to try it (with a single lever paddle)? 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-12-07 6:10 AM, David Woolley wrote: > Re first bottom quoted paragraph, Windows doesn't come with a fully paid > version of MS Word. It has Wordpad as its built in word processor. > There are differences in that Elecraft don't sell an standalone keyer, > but in my experience, multi-function products happen when marketing > departments cannot come up with any real innovations. > > Re the second quoted paragraph, this is basically not true, as for > example demonstrated by > <http://fermi.la.asu.edu/w9cf/articles/ultimatic.pdf>. Any well timed > twin paddle mode can be converted fairly easily. In the case of > ultimatic, it would seem that an SSI approach is quite possible, but, if > you have access to the source code, and a spare pin, only a few extra > lines will be needed on any microprocessor based keyer. > > The bug mode is a different matter, because the dashes are, essentially, > straight keyed. However, if the K3 had bug mode added, I'd also expect > it to have straight key added, as the same problems would have to be > solved there. > > There seems to be an Arduino based open source keyer at > <http://sourceforge.net/p/k3ngarduinocwke/code/ci/master/tree/> that > could, presumably, be adapted. > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Bill-3
Recently a friend took a Ford Escape in for a safety recall, trannie firmware update (to resolve an issue that will eventually destroy the trannie) and a Sync update (original 5 year old version that doesn't meet the stated ability).
The recall was free. The firmware updates were 5 minutes of computer time and $125 EACH. The problem with the trannie has TWO TSB's and is clearly Ford's fault. I'm sure if they could have charged for the safety recall (their fault) it would have been. Ford could learn about customer service from Elecraft and it reinforces why I'm happy I don't own a Ford. My GM updates have been free (except the Nav GPS, an expensive convenience). Elecraft has added new features as well as fine tuned earlier features resulting in an entire system that is simple to manage and easy to remote and plays well with other brands (SteppIR and more). Not many companies manage that. And all updates have been free, except when it requires additional hardware (like P3 SVGA). No one else does that. Ford results: safety improved; longevity improved; usefulness improved. $250 later, 2.5 hours at their shop rate, done in a half hour (but the vehicle must be there at dawn, maybe done by dinner). Good for Ford, not the consumer. Anyone at Elecraft want to take over Ford service? ;-) 73, Rick wa6nhc Tiny iPhone 5 keypad, typos are inevitable > On Dec 7, 2014, at 7:09 AM, W2BLC <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Sorry to disappoint David, but the majority of the updates actually involve firmware/software updates - involving the "convenience" factors of the vehicle. Hence, it is good example and stands. > > Bill W2BLC K-Line > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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>>>> it reinforces why I'm happy I don't own a Ford. <<<<
>>>> My GM updates have been free (except the Nav GPS, an expensive convenience). <<<< " The recall was free. The firmware updates were 5 minutes of computer time and $125 EACH. The problem with the trannie has TWO TSB's and is clearly Ford's fault. I'm sure if they could have charged for the safety recall (their fault) it would have been." Rick, GM's "NEGLIGENCE'S" has KILLED! This is a Documented Fact! >>>> ( an expensive convenience). <<<< VERY EXPENSIVE!!! Ooops! My mistake. The Cobalt is made by Ford. ((((73)))) Milverton. From: Rick Bates <[hidden email]> To: W2BLC <[hidden email]> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2014 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 Ubdate Recently a friend took a Ford Escape in for a safety recall, trannie firmware update (to resolve an issue that will eventually destroy the trannie) and a Sync update (original 5 year old version that doesn't meet the stated ability). The recall was free. The firmware updates were 5 minutes of computer time and $125 EACH. The problem with the trannie has TWO TSB's and is clearly Ford's fault. I'm sure if they could have charged for the safety recall (their fault) it would have been. Ford could learn about customer service from Elecraft and it reinforces why I'm happy I don't own a Ford. My GM updates have been free (except the Nav GPS, an expensive convenience). Elecraft has added new features as well as fine tuned earlier features resulting in an entire system that is simple to manage and easy to remote and plays well with other brands (SteppIR and more). Not many companies manage that. And all updates have been free, except when it requires additional hardware (like P3 SVGA). No one else does that. Ford results: safety improved; longevity improved; usefulness improved. $250 later, 2.5 hours at their shop rate, done in a half hour (but the vehicle must be there at dawn, maybe done by dinner). Good for Ford, not the consumer. Anyone at Elecraft want to take over Ford service? ;-) 73, Rick wa6nhc Tiny iPhone 5 keypad, typos are inevitable > On Dec 7, 2014, at 7:09 AM, W2BLC <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Sorry to disappoint David, but the majority of the updates actually involve firmware/software updates - involving the "convenience" factors of the vehicle. Hence, it is good example and stands. > > Bill W2BLC K-Line > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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