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[P3] and HRD

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kd1na

[P3] and HRD

Mike,
After reading your e-mail I tested HRD while my P3 was on and working. I had no problem with the HRD frequency readout or any DMC functions while the P3 was working. I have 0032 firmware installed. I also can use MIXW while the P3 is working with no problems with either. As a matter of information I am running Windows XP Prof. and am using a real serial connection (not USB to Serial).

73
Dave KD1NA K3 #934

From: "Michael Bornstein" <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] Using a P3 and Ham Radio Deluxe
To: <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <9872C79F9C6E4C71BC1AA46E39516BFF@ThinkPadT42>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I am using HRD v.5 Beta and just turned on my P3. With the P3 off, HRD works fine. With it on, it simply can't read the frequency of my K3 and thus doesn't work. Has anyone experienced this before, and is there a known fix?

Mike
K6UMO
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Guy, K2AV

Re: [P3] and HRD

The most obvious techno-lurch suspicion is that, predictably and most
likely necessarily, the P3 introduced a timing delay in the response
to the commands, and that HRD has a timeout and clips the response on
this longer exchange. Since it appears to be interpreting other
commands, it clearly is not a connection problem.

The only real fix is for the software author to make an adjustment in
his self-described beta software, in the timing loop, for what is no
longer a "private" comm channel. Since I'm sure other Elecraft
products will share this channel, the real solution is for HRD to
default at startup to longer waits and dynamically reduce these to
some overage on the delays actually experienced.

IMHO it's unrealistic to expect Elecraft to take on the burden of
adjusting central code for all wrinkles in all external add-on
software. To the extent that Elecraft CAN and does do so, that's nice
and wildly appreciated, but "parasitic" applications will need to
adopt and creatively manage the burden to stay current with their host
hardware.

I have seen instances where add-on app coders became obdurate and
would not adjust to morphing equipment and foundational software.
That behavior is a fast track to obsolescence. Some well know logging
software has and is in process of driving their app off the cliff.

My personal experience in hardware/software timing issues resulted in
an unshakable conviction that hardware code is no place for the weak,
the faint-of-heart, the impatient, the easily insulted, or those
looking for any kind of one time code-it, keep-it-forever software.

The only thing for sure about hardware code is that 1) what worked
this week, next week won't, 2) those needing fixes are only calling
you because what worked last week, this week doesn't, and thousands of
people are sitting on their hands being paid for doing nothing until
you fix it.

In the software business, you either keep up or die, no prisoners taken.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 1:42 PM, David Robertson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Mike,
> After reading your e-mail I tested HRD while my P3 was on and working. I had no problem with the HRD frequency readout or any DMC functions while the P3 was working. I have 0032 firmware installed. I also can use MIXW while the P3 is working with no problems with either. As a matter of information I am running Windows XP Prof. and am using a real serial connection (not USB to Serial).
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wayne burdick

Re: [P3] and HRD

Administrator

We're making improvements at the P3 end to ensure there's no
significant command latency. We don't feel that PC applications should
have to make adjustments to accommodate the P3.

There are a lot more P3's out there, now, running in conjunction with
many more third-party applications, so we're getting plenty of useful
feedback :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Aug 24, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> The most obvious techno-lurch suspicion is that, predictably and most
> likely necessarily, the P3 introduced a timing delay in the response
> to the commands....

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John Fritze

Re: [P3] and HRD

In reply to this post by kd1na

I notice, as others have comented a couple of second delay until HRD
catches up with things like frequency displayed, etc. Not really a
problem for me.

But what is a bit annoying if working digital modes (such as PSK),
pressing send on HRD, there can be several second delay before the K3
responds. Sometimes I need to press the send button 2X. In casual
ragchewing I don't find it more than a minor problem, but am wondering
how it will be in contesting when things are hot and heavy.

I have not tried Winlink Pactor 3 yet, and this delay may be big
problem as the turn around time is very fast. If I simply turn off
the P3 will the delay go away?

BTW, I am really loving this panadaptor when looking for DX. I've
noticed that it's possible to pick out 2 SSB siganls nearly on top of
each other. Then separate out the desired signal with the K3s
filtering. I'm hearing signals now that I might have skipped over
before.

John
K2QY
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: [P3] and HRD

> But what is a bit annoying if working digital modes (such as PSK),
> pressing send on HRD, there can be several second delay before the K3
> responds. Sometimes I need to press the send button 2X. In casual
> ragchewing I don't find it more than a minor problem, but am wondering
> how it will be in contesting when things are hot and heavy.

Stop using "software PTT" and use an open collector transistor switch
on a serial port RTS line. I believe HRD will even do it on the same
port as the CAT connection.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 8/25/2010 8:55 AM, John Fritze wrote:

> I notice, as others have comented a couple of second delay until HRD
> catches up with things like frequency displayed, etc. Not really a
> problem for me.
>
> But what is a bit annoying if working digital modes (such as PSK),
> pressing send on HRD, there can be several second delay before the K3
> responds. Sometimes I need to press the send button 2X. In casual
> ragchewing I don't find it more than a minor problem, but am wondering
> how it will be in contesting when things are hot and heavy.
>
> I have not tried Winlink Pactor 3 yet, and this delay may be big
> problem as the turn around time is very fast. If I simply turn off
> the P3 will the delay go away?
>
> BTW, I am really loving this panadaptor when looking for DX. I've
> noticed that it's possible to pick out 2 SSB siganls nearly on top of
> each other. Then separate out the desired signal with the K3s
> filtering. I'm hearing signals now that I might have skipped over
> before.
>
> John
> K2QY
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Alan Bloom

Re: [P3] and HRD

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Wayne and I are working on a method to reduce the communications latency
when the P3 is in the loop. Hopefully I'll have some new beta firmware
soon to try it out.

Meanwhile, you might try increasing the refresh interval in HRD. One
customer said he was having problems with a short refresh time and the
problems went away when he returned it to the default 300 ms. In HRD,
click on Options, then the Comms tab. Refresh Interval is in the lower
right.

Alan N1AL

On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 12:29 -0700, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> We're making improvements at the P3 end to ensure there's no
> significant command latency. We don't feel that PC applications should
> have to make adjustments to accommodate the P3.
>
> There are a lot more P3's out there, now, running in conjunction with
> many more third-party applications, so we're getting plenty of useful
> feedback :)
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> On Aug 24, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
>
> > The most obvious techno-lurch suspicion is that, predictably and most
> > likely necessarily, the P3 introduced a timing delay in the response
> > to the commands....
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Larry - K2GN

Re: [P3] and HRD

Well, there's a find!
I went into DXLab Commander and changed the Continuous integration from
200ms to 400.
In 10 minutes of testing the P3 didn't freeze!!!! Plus during a 5 minute CW
QSO
I'll continue operating and testing during this afternoon.

de K2GN - Larry - http://k2gn.com
K3 S/N - 3278 P3 S/N - 51

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alan Bloom
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:04 PM
To: Wayne Burdick
Cc: [hidden email]; David Robertson; Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [P3] and HRD

Wayne and I are working on a method to reduce the communications latency
when the P3 is in the loop. Hopefully I'll have some new beta firmware
soon to try it out.

Meanwhile, you might try increasing the refresh interval in HRD. One
customer said he was having problems with a short refresh time and the
problems went away when he returned it to the default 300 ms. In HRD,
click on Options, then the Comms tab. Refresh Interval is in the lower
right.

Alan N1AL

On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 12:29 -0700, Wayne Burdick wrote:

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No virus found in this incoming message.
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Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3092 - Release Date: 08/25/10
02:34:00

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: [P3] and HRD

> I went into DXLab Commander and changed the Continuous integration
> from 200ms to 400.

Not that it might not help but I've been running DXLabs CI-V Commander
with microHAM Router/microKEYER II and P3 since the very start with
Commander's "command interval" set to 200 msec with no lock-ups. I
doubt that "command interval" is the smoking gun ... but by reducing
the serial load it probably makes it less likely for the underlying
issue to surface.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 8/25/2010 12:35 PM, Larry - K2GN wrote:

> Well, there's a find!
> I went into DXLab Commander and changed the Continuous integration from
> 200ms to 400.
> In 10 minutes of testing the P3 didn't freeze!!!! Plus during a 5 minute CW
> QSO
> I'll continue operating and testing during this afternoon.
>
> de K2GN - Larry - http://k2gn.com
> K3 S/N - 3278 P3 S/N - 51
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alan Bloom
> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:04 PM
> To: Wayne Burdick
> Cc: [hidden email]; David Robertson; Elecraft
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [P3] and HRD
>
> Wayne and I are working on a method to reduce the communications latency
> when the P3 is in the loop. Hopefully I'll have some new beta firmware
> soon to try it out.
>
> Meanwhile, you might try increasing the refresh interval in HRD. One
> customer said he was having problems with a short refresh time and the
> problems went away when he returned it to the default 300 ms. In HRD,
> click on Options, then the Comms tab. Refresh Interval is in the lower
> right.
>
> Alan N1AL
>
>
> On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 12:29 -0700, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> We're making improvements at the P3 end to ensure there's no
>> significant command latency. We don't feel that PC applications should
>> have to make adjustments to accommodate the P3.
>>
>> There are a lot more P3's out there, now, running in conjunction with
>> many more third-party applications, so we're getting plenty of useful
>> feedback :)
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>> On Aug 24, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
>>
>>> The most obvious techno-lurch suspicion is that, predictably and most
>>> likely necessarily, the P3 introduced a timing delay in the response
>>> to the commands....
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3092 - Release Date: 08/25/10
> 02:34:00
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>

wayne burdick

Re: [P3] and HRD

Administrator

We've already fixed the hang problem in the next P3 firmware release,
and we're well underway with reduced latency when running HRD, etc.

I'm guessing we'll have a new beta release later this week.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Aug 25, 2010, at 12:05 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
>> I went into DXLab Commander and changed the Continuous integration
>> from 200ms to 400.
>
> Not that it might not help but I've been running DXLabs CI-V Commander
> with microHAM Router/microKEYER II and P3 since the very start with
> Commander's "command interval" set to 200 msec with no lock-ups.
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Frank R. Oppedijk-2

[P3] and latency

Hi all,

I'm loving my P3!

I don't know whether this has already been posted in one of the
latency posts, but when I send multiple CAT commands to the P3/K3
combination in quick succession (e.g. "FA00010102000;MD7;"), then the
second command is missed by the K3. When I switch off the P3, both
commands do make it to the K3.

73,

Frank PA4N

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wayne burdick

Re: [P3] and latency

Administrator

This and related latency issues are at the top of our list.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Sep 6, 2010, at 12:27 PM, Frank R. Oppedijk wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm loving my P3!
>
> I don't know whether this has already been posted in one of the
> latency posts, but when I send multiple CAT commands to the P3/K3
> combination in quick succession (e.g. "FA00010102000;MD7;"), then the
> second command is missed by the K3. When I switch off the P3, both
> commands do make it to the K3.
>
> 73,
>
> Frank PA4N

G4DJJ

Re: [P3] and HRD

In reply to this post by kd1na

I have just taken delivery of P3 kit S/N 2008, firmware version 01.13. I am using this with K3 S/N 1465 mcu firmware version 04.39. The P3 and K3 work fine together. However, I cannot establish any communication between the K3 and my PC running HRD v 5 when the P3 is powered on. Other users have reported latency issues and suggested that some earlier versions of P3 firmware provide more reliable communication. Can I load an earlier (non-current) version of P3 firmware using the P3 utility?

Dick Dievendorff

Re: [P3] and HRD

Yes, put the desired p3 firmware file in a folder by itself and navigate in the P3 utility to that folder. Then press send all firmware.

Dick, K6KR

On Mar 31, 2012, at 15:21, G4DJJ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have just taken delivery of P3 kit S/N 2008, firmware version 01.13. I am
> using this with K3 S/N 1465 mcu firmware version 04.39. The P3 and K3 work
> fine together. However, I cannot establish any communication between the K3
> and my PC running HRD v 5 when the P3 is powered on. Other users have
> reported latency issues and suggested that some earlier versions of P3
> firmware provide more reliable communication. Can I load an earlier
> (non-current) version of P3 firmware using the P3 utility?
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-and-HRD-tp5457983p7425820.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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John K3TN

Re: [P3] and HRD

In reply to this post by G4DJJ

I'm running HRD 5.11 and the P3 with 1.13. Make sure you have the HRD comms running at 38,400 as that is what the P3 requires.

There is a different HRD issue, where it cause AGC to be turned off on the K3, and having the P3 inline makes that problem worse. There is a beta release of the K3 firmware that looks like it will fix that problem, but my K3/P3/HRD combo works fine at 38,400 outside of that.

John K3TN

G4DJJ wrote

I have just taken delivery of P3 kit S/N 2008, firmware version 01.13. I am using this with K3 S/N 1465 mcu firmware version 04.39. The P3 and K3 work fine together. However, I cannot establish any communication between the K3 and my PC running HRD v 5 when the P3 is powered on. Other users have reported latency issues and suggested that some earlier versions of P3 firmware provide more reliable communication. Can I load an earlier (non-current) version of P3 firmware using the P3 utility?