P3 bug
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>On Mon,12/29/2014 7:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >> I have never seen this but I don't have the SVGA. > >Nor have I. Perhaps an RF issue? > >73, Jim K9YC I have the same problem and it does occur in TEST mode so it isn't RF. It is also a problem of long standing, not related to any recent firmware upgrade. The displays (both P3 and SVGA) hang at very irregular intervals, on average about once in maybe 10-20-30 returns to TX. Sometimes the displays freeze for only about a second, but sometimes for as long as 10 seconds or even more. I also have the impression that the problem sometimes occurs in 'streaks' when the probability seems much higher. Unfortunately the problem cannot be created on demand, only by repeated TX-RX cycling, but it does not seem to happen at all with purely manual keying. It only happens here when the logging program (N1MM+) is active, which suggests it is related to traffic on the RS232 link - perhaps some kind of data collision which is being resolved by timeouts. I have the impression that the displays become more likely to hang when the VFOB knob is rotated while transmitting on VFO A, which will feed a backlog of data into the RS232 link or its buffers. (FYI, my RS232 link uses the hardware COM1 port on the PC motherboard and the PC-P3-K3 chaining is exactly as specified in the manuals; the whole link functions perfectly in every other respect.) Although the problem seems to require that the logging program is running, it does not seem to be directly related to the source of CW and/or PTT. The problem occurs with manual keying and VOX, just as often as it does with keying from N1MM+ (DTR=CW, RTS=PTT). The same problem also occurs on RTTY but I'm not sure about SSB. 73 from Ian GM3SEK >-----Original Message----- >From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of >Jim Brown >Sent: 29 December 2014 17:09 >To: [hidden email] >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 bug > >On Mon,12/29/2014 7:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >> I have never seen this but I don't have the SVGA. > >Nor have I. Perhaps an RF issue? > >73, Jim K9YC >______________________________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:[hidden email] > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I have just tested it with and without a logging program running. It
happens either way. The way I test it it to turn QSK and TX TEST on and send a series of groups of V's with the internal keyer at 25 wpm: VVV VVV VVV etc. It seems to happen from once every three groups to once in 8 or so. Usually the delays are about 1s. Sometimes they are longer. On 29 Dec 2014 22:32, Ian White wrote: > >> On Mon,12/29/2014 7:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>> I have never seen this but I don't have the SVGA. >> >> Nor have I. Perhaps an RF issue? >> >> 73, Jim K9YC > > I have the same problem and it does occur in TEST mode so it isn't RF. > It is also a problem of long standing, not related to any recent > firmware upgrade. > > The displays (both P3 and SVGA) hang at very irregular intervals, on > average about once in maybe 10-20-30 returns to TX. Sometimes the > displays freeze for only about a second, but sometimes for as long as 10 > seconds or even more. I also have the impression that the problem > sometimes occurs in 'streaks' when the probability seems much higher. > > Unfortunately the problem cannot be created on demand, only by repeated > TX-RX cycling, but it does not seem to happen at all with purely manual > keying. > > It only happens here when the logging program (N1MM+) is active, which > suggests it is related to traffic on the RS232 link - perhaps some kind > of data collision which is being resolved by timeouts. I have the > impression that the displays become more likely to hang when the VFOB > knob is rotated while transmitting on VFO A, which will feed a backlog > of data into the RS232 link or its buffers. (FYI, my RS232 link uses > the hardware COM1 port on the PC motherboard and the PC-P3-K3 chaining > is exactly as specified in the manuals; the whole link functions > perfectly in every other respect.) > > Although the problem seems to require that the logging program is > running, it does not seem to be directly related to the source of CW > and/or PTT. The problem occurs with manual keying and VOX, just as often > as it does with keying from N1MM+ (DTR=CW, RTS=PTT). > > The same problem also occurs on RTTY but I'm not sure about SSB. > > > 73 from Ian GM3SEK -- 73, Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO Rehovot, Israel http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by gm3sek
> It only happens here when the logging program (N1MM+) is active, > which suggests it is related to traffic on the RS232 link - perhaps > some kind of data collision which is being resolved by timeouts. N1MM Logger (both Classic and Plus) is extremely aggressive in its polling - something like 7 or 9 "GET" items - including FA; FB; and IF; all at once every 300 ms. Add a second polling source - e.g. the P3 - and the chance of collision, timeout, and/or buffer overflow gets fairly substantial rather quickly. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-12-29 3:32 PM, Ian White wrote: > >> On Mon,12/29/2014 7:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>> I have never seen this but I don't have the SVGA. >> >> Nor have I. Perhaps an RF issue? >> >> 73, Jim K9YC > > I have the same problem and it does occur in TEST mode so it isn't RF. > It is also a problem of long standing, not related to any recent > firmware upgrade. > > The displays (both P3 and SVGA) hang at very irregular intervals, on > average about once in maybe 10-20-30 returns to TX. Sometimes the > displays freeze for only about a second, but sometimes for as long as 10 > seconds or even more. I also have the impression that the problem > sometimes occurs in 'streaks' when the probability seems much higher. > > Unfortunately the problem cannot be created on demand, only by repeated > TX-RX cycling, but it does not seem to happen at all with purely manual > keying. > > It only happens here when the logging program (N1MM+) is active, which > suggests it is related to traffic on the RS232 link - perhaps some kind > of data collision which is being resolved by timeouts. I have the > impression that the displays become more likely to hang when the VFOB > knob is rotated while transmitting on VFO A, which will feed a backlog > of data into the RS232 link or its buffers. (FYI, my RS232 link uses > the hardware COM1 port on the PC motherboard and the PC-P3-K3 chaining > is exactly as specified in the manuals; the whole link functions > perfectly in every other respect.) > > Although the problem seems to require that the logging program is > running, it does not seem to be directly related to the source of CW > and/or PTT. The problem occurs with manual keying and VOX, just as often > as it does with keying from N1MM+ (DTR=CW, RTS=PTT). > > The same problem also occurs on RTTY but I'm not sure about SSB. > > > 73 from Ian GM3SEK > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of >> Jim Brown >> Sent: 29 December 2014 17:09 >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 bug >> >> On Mon,12/29/2014 7:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>> I have never seen this but I don't have the SVGA. >> >> Nor have I. Perhaps an RF issue? >> >> 73, Jim K9YC >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [hidden email] > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Right, but I conclusively proved that this is not the (only?) cause by
reproducing the bug without any applications running on my computer that access the K3. On 29 Dec 2014 22:58, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > >> It only happens here when the logging program (N1MM+) is active, >> which suggests it is related to traffic on the RS232 link - perhaps >> some kind of data collision which is being resolved by timeouts. > > N1MM Logger (both Classic and Plus) is extremely aggressive in its > polling - something like 7 or 9 "GET" items - including FA; FB; and IF; > all at once every 300 ms. Add a second polling source - e.g. the P3 - > and the chance of collision, timeout, and/or buffer overflow gets > fairly substantial rather quickly. > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV > > > On 2014-12-29 3:32 PM, Ian White wrote: >> >>> On Mon,12/29/2014 7:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>>> I have never seen this but I don't have the SVGA. >>> >>> Nor have I. Perhaps an RF issue? >>> >>> 73, Jim K9YC >> >> I have the same problem and it does occur in TEST mode so it isn't RF. >> It is also a problem of long standing, not related to any recent >> firmware upgrade. >> >> The displays (both P3 and SVGA) hang at very irregular intervals, on >> average about once in maybe 10-20-30 returns to TX. Sometimes the >> displays freeze for only about a second, but sometimes for as long as 10 >> seconds or even more. I also have the impression that the problem >> sometimes occurs in 'streaks' when the probability seems much higher. >> >> Unfortunately the problem cannot be created on demand, only by repeated >> TX-RX cycling, but it does not seem to happen at all with purely manual >> keying. >> >> It only happens here when the logging program (N1MM+) is active, which >> suggests it is related to traffic on the RS232 link - perhaps some kind >> of data collision which is being resolved by timeouts. I have the >> impression that the displays become more likely to hang when the VFOB >> knob is rotated while transmitting on VFO A, which will feed a backlog >> of data into the RS232 link or its buffers. (FYI, my RS232 link uses >> the hardware COM1 port on the PC motherboard and the PC-P3-K3 chaining >> is exactly as specified in the manuals; the whole link functions >> perfectly in every other respect.) >> >> Although the problem seems to require that the logging program is >> running, it does not seem to be directly related to the source of CW >> and/or PTT. The problem occurs with manual keying and VOX, just as often >> as it does with keying from N1MM+ (DTR=CW, RTS=PTT). >> >> The same problem also occurs on RTTY but I'm not sure about SSB. >> >> >> 73 from Ian GM3SEK >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of >>> Jim Brown >>> Sent: 29 December 2014 17:09 >>> To: [hidden email] >>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 bug >>> >>> On Mon,12/29/2014 7:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>>> I have never seen this but I don't have the SVGA. >>> >>> Nor have I. Perhaps an RF issue? >>> >>> 73, Jim K9YC 73, Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO Rehovot, Israel http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Have you tried using an external keyer? I can not reproduce the bug here but I'm using an external keyer. Perhaps the internal keyer adds enough stress to the processor to cause a delay that exceeds a "knee". 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-12-29 4:01 PM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote: > Right, but I conclusively proved that this is not the (only?) cause by > reproducing the bug without any applications running on my computer that > access the K3. > > On 29 Dec 2014 22:58, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >> >>> It only happens here when the logging program (N1MM+) is active, >>> which suggests it is related to traffic on the RS232 link - perhaps >>> some kind of data collision which is being resolved by timeouts. >> >> N1MM Logger (both Classic and Plus) is extremely aggressive in its >> polling - something like 7 or 9 "GET" items - including FA; FB; and IF; >> all at once every 300 ms. Add a second polling source - e.g. the P3 - >> and the chance of collision, timeout, and/or buffer overflow gets >> fairly substantial rather quickly. >> >> 73, >> >> ... Joe, W4TV >> >> >> On 2014-12-29 3:32 PM, Ian White wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon,12/29/2014 7:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>>>> I have never seen this but I don't have the SVGA. >>>> >>>> Nor have I. Perhaps an RF issue? >>>> >>>> 73, Jim K9YC >>> >>> I have the same problem and it does occur in TEST mode so it isn't RF. >>> It is also a problem of long standing, not related to any recent >>> firmware upgrade. >>> >>> The displays (both P3 and SVGA) hang at very irregular intervals, on >>> average about once in maybe 10-20-30 returns to TX. Sometimes the >>> displays freeze for only about a second, but sometimes for as long as 10 >>> seconds or even more. I also have the impression that the problem >>> sometimes occurs in 'streaks' when the probability seems much higher. >>> >>> Unfortunately the problem cannot be created on demand, only by repeated >>> TX-RX cycling, but it does not seem to happen at all with purely manual >>> keying. >>> >>> It only happens here when the logging program (N1MM+) is active, which >>> suggests it is related to traffic on the RS232 link - perhaps some kind >>> of data collision which is being resolved by timeouts. I have the >>> impression that the displays become more likely to hang when the VFOB >>> knob is rotated while transmitting on VFO A, which will feed a backlog >>> of data into the RS232 link or its buffers. (FYI, my RS232 link uses >>> the hardware COM1 port on the PC motherboard and the PC-P3-K3 chaining >>> is exactly as specified in the manuals; the whole link functions >>> perfectly in every other respect.) >>> >>> Although the problem seems to require that the logging program is >>> running, it does not seem to be directly related to the source of CW >>> and/or PTT. The problem occurs with manual keying and VOX, just as often >>> as it does with keying from N1MM+ (DTR=CW, RTS=PTT). >>> >>> The same problem also occurs on RTTY but I'm not sure about SSB. >>> >>> >>> 73 from Ian GM3SEK >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of >>>> Jim Brown >>>> Sent: 29 December 2014 17:09 >>>> To: [hidden email] >>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 bug >>>> >>>> On Mon,12/29/2014 7:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>>>> I have never seen this but I don't have the SVGA. >>>> >>>> Nor have I. Perhaps an RF issue? >>>> >>>> 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I just tried it with an external keyer. Same results.
On 29 Dec 2014 23:07, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > > Have you tried using an external keyer? I can not reproduce the bug > here but I'm using an external keyer. Perhaps the internal keyer adds > enough stress to the processor to cause a delay that exceeds a "knee". > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV > > On 2014-12-29 4:01 PM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote: >> Right, but I conclusively proved that this is not the (only?) cause by >> reproducing the bug without any applications running on my computer that >> access the K3. >> >> On 29 Dec 2014 22:58, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>> >>>> It only happens here when the logging program (N1MM+) is active, >>>> which suggests it is related to traffic on the RS232 link - perhaps >>>> some kind of data collision which is being resolved by timeouts. >>> >>> N1MM Logger (both Classic and Plus) is extremely aggressive in its >>> polling - something like 7 or 9 "GET" items - including FA; FB; and IF; >>> all at once every 300 ms. Add a second polling source - e.g. the P3 - >>> and the chance of collision, timeout, and/or buffer overflow gets >>> fairly substantial rather quickly. >>> >>> 73, >>> >>> ... Joe, W4TV >>> >>> >>> On 2014-12-29 3:32 PM, Ian White wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Mon,12/29/2014 7:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>>>>> I have never seen this but I don't have the SVGA. >>>>> >>>>> Nor have I. Perhaps an RF issue? >>>>> >>>>> 73, Jim K9YC >>>> >>>> I have the same problem and it does occur in TEST mode so it isn't RF. >>>> It is also a problem of long standing, not related to any recent >>>> firmware upgrade. >>>> >>>> The displays (both P3 and SVGA) hang at very irregular intervals, on >>>> average about once in maybe 10-20-30 returns to TX. Sometimes the >>>> displays freeze for only about a second, but sometimes for as long >>>> as 10 >>>> seconds or even more. I also have the impression that the problem >>>> sometimes occurs in 'streaks' when the probability seems much higher. >>>> >>>> Unfortunately the problem cannot be created on demand, only by repeated >>>> TX-RX cycling, but it does not seem to happen at all with purely manual >>>> keying. >>>> >>>> It only happens here when the logging program (N1MM+) is active, which >>>> suggests it is related to traffic on the RS232 link - perhaps some kind >>>> of data collision which is being resolved by timeouts. I have the >>>> impression that the displays become more likely to hang when the VFOB >>>> knob is rotated while transmitting on VFO A, which will feed a backlog >>>> of data into the RS232 link or its buffers. (FYI, my RS232 link uses >>>> the hardware COM1 port on the PC motherboard and the PC-P3-K3 chaining >>>> is exactly as specified in the manuals; the whole link functions >>>> perfectly in every other respect.) >>>> >>>> Although the problem seems to require that the logging program is >>>> running, it does not seem to be directly related to the source of CW >>>> and/or PTT. The problem occurs with manual keying and VOX, just as >>>> often >>>> as it does with keying from N1MM+ (DTR=CW, RTS=PTT). >>>> >>>> The same problem also occurs on RTTY but I'm not sure about SSB. >>>> >>>> >>>> 73 from Ian GM3SEK >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of >>>>> Jim Brown >>>>> Sent: 29 December 2014 17:09 >>>>> To: [hidden email] >>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 bug >>>>> >>>>> On Mon,12/29/2014 7:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>>>>> I have never seen this but I don't have the SVGA. >>>>> >>>>> Nor have I. Perhaps an RF issue? >>>>> >>>>> 73, Jim K9YC > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] -- Vic ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by gm3sek
On 12/29/2014 1:32 PM, Ian White wrote:
> I have the same problem and it does occur in TEST mode so it isn't RF. The last time I had an "RF in the shack" problem was in 1958, when as a Novice class ham, I connected a single-wire antenna directly to the link coil on my Millen transmitter. (http://www.isquare.com/millen/eqpicts/90800.html) Otherwise, I find these concerns highly overblown and too often cited as a source of mischief. The most troublesome problem today is the garbage generated by the digital stuff that we can't seem to live without. Wes N7WS ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal
I also have just proved conclusively that it has nothing to do with RF and nothing to do with a PC application. I tested the P3 with SVGA with my K3 in test mode on 15 meter CW. Using the internal keyer and my paddle with QSK turned on I sent the letter K at 25 WPM and paused. After 5 repeats the P3 hung up for about 1 second. Continuing I sent the letter K about 10 times and the P3 hung on the 10th repeat for about 2 seconds.
This is a true problem. More of you should run this test. 73, Mike K2MK
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Hi,
I have seen this behavior with the SVGA as well. However, 1 or 2 seconds before the P3 returns is not the same issue that I believe most people are talking about. When I have had this issue the spectrum locks up and will not return until a subsequent transmit. The communications between the P3 and K3 will most likely take a bit of time when the transmission is finished. One to two seconds is probably the norm and I would think that this is normal behavior. Since the P3 and K3 use the same serial link, I would think that a faster response would be bad for other third party applications. In my opinion although I do not know for sure, I believe that what is happening is that the command issued to determine if the K3 is transmitting is very slow to receive a response. I have seen this in my software. Perhaps this combined with some code that needs a little additional work for the P3 / K3 communications might solve the issue. 73's Tom va2fsq.com -----Original Message----- From: Mike K2MK Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 4:40 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 bug I also have just proved conclusively that it has nothing to do with RF and nothing to do with a PC application. I tested the P3 with SVGA with my K3 in test mode on 15 meter CW. Using the internal keyer and my paddle with QSK turned on I sent the letter K at 25 WPM and paused. After 5 repeats the P3 hung up for about 1 second. Continuing I sent the letter K about 10 times and the P3 hung on the 10th repeat for about 2 seconds. This is a true problem. More of you should run this test. 73, Mike K2MK --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Mike K2MK
> More of you should run this test. I have run your test and Vic's test literally hundreds of times with absolutely no "hang." 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-12-29 4:40 PM, Mike K2MK wrote: > I also have just proved conclusively that it has nothing to do with RF and > nothing to do with a PC application. I tested the P3 with SVGA with my K3 in > test mode on 15 meter CW. Using the internal keyer and my paddle with QSK > turned on I sent the letter K at 25 WPM and paused. After 5 repeats the P3 > hung up for about 1 second. Continuing I sent the letter K about 10 times > and the P3 hung on the 10th repeat for about 2 seconds. > > This is a true problem. More of you should run this test. > > 73, > Mike K2MK > > > Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote >> Right, but I conclusively proved that this is not the (only?) cause by >> reproducing the bug without any applications running on my computer that >> access the K3. >> >> On 29 Dec 2014 22:58, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>> >>>> It only happens here when the logging program (N1MM+) is active, >>>> which suggests it is related to traffic on the RS232 link - perhaps >>>> some kind of data collision which is being resolved by timeouts. >>> >>> N1MM Logger (both Classic and Plus) is extremely aggressive in its >>> polling - something like 7 or 9 "GET" items - including FA; FB; and IF; >>> all at once every 300 ms. Add a second polling source - e.g. the P3 - >>> and the chance of collision, timeout, and/or buffer overflow gets >>> fairly substantial rather quickly. >>> >>> 73, >>> >>> ... Joe, W4TV > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-bug-tp7596500p7596508.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In order to reproduce this problem we are probably going to need much more information than has been given. To begin with, why don't you tell us what your update rate is set to on the P3, as well as what other devices you might have on the RS-232 bus? At 25 wpm you should be able to see the P3 update between letters, on a P3 w/o SVGA set to 20 ms update rate. I don't know what effect the SVGA option has, if any. Al W6LX ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal
OK, Vic: the computer RS232 link is not involved.
I hadn't noticed any hangups while testing with an external keyer using VOX (semi-breakin) but could easily create hangups using full QSK. That may be simply because full QSK generates many more TX/RX transitions. Sometimes even one dot was enough to cause a hangup. If something is marginal in the communication between the K3 and the P3, that might explain why the problem varies so much, both in the frequency of the hangups and in their duration. It might also explain why some people have never noticed it at all. Also, are we correct in believing that the problem only affects SVGA users? It's getting late here, but maybe someone could repeat the test with the SVGA display disconnected from the P3, in case that might be a source of disruption to the data communications. 73 from Ian GM3SEK >-----Original Message----- >From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Vic >Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO >Sent: 29 December 2014 20:51 >To: [hidden email] >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 bug > >I have just tested it with and without a logging program running. It >happens either way. > >The way I test it it to turn QSK and TX TEST on and send a series of >groups of V's with the internal keyer at 25 wpm: VVV VVV VVV etc. It >seems to happen from once every three groups to once in 8 or so. >the delays are about 1s. Sometimes they are longer. > >On 29 Dec 2014 22:32, Ian White wrote: >> >>> On Mon,12/29/2014 7:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>>> I have never seen this but I don't have the SVGA. >>> >>> Nor have I. Perhaps an RF issue? >>> >>> 73, Jim K9YC >> >> I have the same problem and it does occur in TEST mode so it isn't >> It is also a problem of long standing, not related to any recent >> firmware upgrade. >> >> The displays (both P3 and SVGA) hang at very irregular intervals, on >> average about once in maybe 10-20-30 returns to TX. Sometimes the >> displays freeze for only about a second, but sometimes for as long as 10 >> seconds or even more. I also have the impression that the problem >> sometimes occurs in 'streaks' when the probability seems much higher. >> >> Unfortunately the problem cannot be created on demand, only by >repeated >> TX-RX cycling, but it does not seem to happen at all with purely manual >> keying. >> >> It only happens here when the logging program (N1MM+) is active, which >> suggests it is related to traffic on the RS232 link - perhaps some kind >> of data collision which is being resolved by timeouts. I have the >> impression that the displays become more likely to hang when the VFOB >> knob is rotated while transmitting on VFO A, which will feed a backlog >> of data into the RS232 link or its buffers. (FYI, my RS232 link uses >> the hardware COM1 port on the PC motherboard and the PC-P3-K3 >chaining >> is exactly as specified in the manuals; the whole link functions >> perfectly in every other respect.) >> >> Although the problem seems to require that the logging program is >> running, it does not seem to be directly related to the source of CW >> and/or PTT. The problem occurs with manual keying and VOX, just as >often >> as it does with keying from N1MM+ (DTR=CW, RTS=PTT). >> >> The same problem also occurs on RTTY but I'm not sure about SSB. >> >> >> 73 from Ian GM3SEK > >-- >73, >Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO >Rehovot, Israel >http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ >______________________________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:[hidden email] > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by alorona
In addition, there is now QSK OLD and QSK NEW which now adds another
variable into the K3 'return to RX after TX equation'. If all parties responding with additional information would state which they are using, perhaps it will be easier to get to the root cause of this behavior. I have no idea if this is a factor in the "it does it" or "it does not do it here" statements, but information related to the relevant K3 setup and applications running on the computer certainly seem to be a part of it (even though some have seen it without computer applications). I don't think I have seen any reports of the problem being encountered with non-SVGA P3s. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/29/2014 5:45 PM, Al Lorona wrote: > > In order to reproduce this problem we are probably going to need much more information than has been given. > > To begin with, why don't you tell us what your update rate is set to on the P3, as well as what other devices you might have on the RS-232 bus? > > At 25 wpm you should be able to see the P3 update between letters, on a P3 w/o SVGA set to 20 ms update rate. I don't know what effect the SVGA option has, if any. > > > Al W6LX > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Right, Don. It's probably most important for those who are *experiencing* the problem to tell us precisely what their settings are, so that we can reproduce it. Once the first person who wasn't previously experiencing the problem is able to finally see it, then we'll know we're getting somewhere. Al W6LX ________________________________ From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 bug In addition, there is now QSK OLD and QSK NEW which now adds another variable into the K3 'return to RX after TX equation'. If all parties responding with additional information would state which they are using, perhaps it will be easier to get to the root cause of this behavior. I have no idea if this is a factor in the "it does it" or "it does not do it here" statements, but information related to the relevant K3 setup and applications running on the computer certainly seem to be a part of it (even though some have seen it without computer applications). I don't think I have seen any reports of the problem being encountered with non-SVGA P3s. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/29/2014 5:45 PM, Al Lorona wrote: > > In order to reproduce this problem we are probably going to need much more information than has been given. > > To begin with, why don't you tell us what your update rate is set to on the P3, as well as what other devices you might have on the RS-232 bus? > > At 25 wpm you should be able to see the P3 update between letters, on a P3 w/o SVGA set to 20 ms update rate. I don't know what effect the SVGA option has, if any. > > > Al W6LX > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
Hi Don,
I've had this problem for several years and I only started using QSK this year. Further, the problem is also present when using RTTY (AFSK). I don't use SSB very often so I have not noticed if the problem is present with that mode. All firmware for the K3, P3, and SVGA are the latest, either production or beta. I run WriteLog for both CW and RTTY. But for the testing I just posted about I had no PC applications running and the K3 in test mode. My K3 settings are generally all default values. If there is something specific needed I can look it up and advise. I checked the refresh rate on the P3 and it was set at 10ms which is per the manual. I raised it to 20ms and the problem persists. I raised it 100ms and the problem persists. 73, Mike K2MK
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My suspicion is that the presence or absence of this problem has
something to do with the K3 to P3 communication when the K3 tells the P3 that it is finished transmitting and is now in receive mode. If that communication is disrupted for any reason, the P3 would not begin its read of the IF spectrum. I am not any expert on how the internals of that communication happens, and we may have to wait until the K3/P3 engineers return from "holiday vacations" before we can see a response from them. In other words, wait until next week before expecting any meaningful responses. My input is purely a guess. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/29/2014 6:30 PM, Mike K2MK wrote: > Hi Don, > > I've had this problem for several years and I only started using QSK this > year. Further, the problem is also present when using RTTY (AFSK). I don't > use SSB very often so I have not noticed if the problem is present with that > mode. > > All firmware for the K3, P3, and SVGA are the latest, either production or > beta. > > I run WriteLog for both CW and RTTY. But for the testing I just posted about > I had no PC applications running and the K3 in test mode. > > My K3 settings are generally all default values. If there is something > specific needed I can look it up and advise. > > I checked the refresh rate on the P3 and it was set at 10ms which is per the > manual. I raised it to 20ms and the problem persists. I raised it 100ms and > the problem persists. > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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This may be a bug and it is on the list.
Wayne N6KR On Dec 29, 2014, at 3:57 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote: > My suspicion is that the presence or absence of this problem has something to do with the K3 to P3 communication when the K3 tells the P3 that it is finished transmitting and is now in receive mode. If that communication is disrupted for any reason, the P3 would not begin its read of the IF spectrum. > > I am not any expert on how the internals of that communication happens, and we may have to wait until the K3/P3 engineers return from "holiday vacations" before we can see a response from them. In other words, wait until next week before expecting any meaningful responses. My input is purely a guess. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 12/29/2014 6:30 PM, Mike K2MK wrote: >> Hi Don, >> >> I've had this problem for several years and I only started using QSK this >> year. Further, the problem is also present when using RTTY (AFSK). I don't >> use SSB very often so I have not noticed if the problem is present with that >> mode. >> >> All firmware for the K3, P3, and SVGA are the latest, either production or >> beta. >> >> I run WriteLog for both CW and RTTY. But for the testing I just posted about >> I had no PC applications running and the K3 in test mode. >> >> My K3 settings are generally all default values. If there is something >> specific needed I can look it up and advise. >> >> I checked the refresh rate on the P3 and it was set at 10ms which is per the >> manual. I raised it to 20ms and the problem persists. I raised it 100ms and >> the problem persists. >> >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by gm3sek
No SVGA (and no computer link) here, yet the problem happens now and then
- often enough to be annoying - just as others have described it. I am almost sure I am using QSK ³old.² The K3 is about 100 miles from where I am right now so I can¹t confirm that. While I am not 100% sure of this, it may be that the recovery delay has happened only when working split with the sub RX enabled. On the other hand, that would be the only time I would care about it since it would be the only circumstance in which I would be trying to use the P3 to position my transmissions, so my perception may be skewed. Ted, KN1CBR > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 17 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 17:58:58 -0500 >From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> >To: [hidden email] >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 bug >Message-ID: <[hidden email]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > >In addition, there is now QSK OLD and QSK NEW which now adds another >variable into the K3 'return to RX after TX equation'. > >If all parties responding with additional information would state which >they are using, perhaps it will be easier to get to the root cause of >this behavior. > >I have no idea if this is a factor in the "it does it" or "it does not >do it here" statements, but information related to the relevant K3 setup >and applications running on the computer certainly seem to be a part of >it (even though some have seen it without computer applications). > >I don't think I have seen any reports of the problem being encountered >with non-SVGA P3s. > >73, >Don W3FPR > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by gm3sek
* On 2014 29 Dec 16:49 -0600, Ian White wrote:
> Also, are we correct in believing that the problem only affects SVGA > users? No, I do not have the SVGA board and I see exactly what has been described. Last night I saw it on voice several times for extended periods including one that was well in excess of 10 seconds. I attributed it to RFI as I was running the amp, but I have run the amp before with P3 FW 1.09 and had not seen the extended freeze. Most times the freeze would last less than a second or two. 73, Nate, N0NB -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
Vic, Joe,
I can't replicate it here either. Tried it on 17M, both with K3 in test, and 100W to dummy load. Using K3, P3 (no SVGA), KPA500, SteppIR DB-18, microKEYER II, and WriteLog 11.23L. No glitches seen. 73, Rick, W7LKG -----Original Message----- From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 14:28 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 bug > More of you should run this test. I have run your test and Vic's test literally hundreds of times with absolutely no "hang." 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-12-29 4:40 PM, Mike K2MK wrote: > I also have just proved conclusively that it has nothing to do with RF > and nothing to do with a PC application. I tested the P3 with SVGA > with my K3 in test mode on 15 meter CW. Using the internal keyer and > my paddle with QSK turned on I sent the letter K at 25 WPM and paused. > After 5 repeats the P3 hung up for about 1 second. Continuing I sent > the letter K about 10 times and the P3 hung on the 10th repeat for about 2 seconds. > > This is a true problem. More of you should run this test. > > 73, > Mike K2MK > > > Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote >> Right, but I conclusively proved that this is not the (only?) cause >> by reproducing the bug without any applications running on my >> computer that access the K3. >> >> On 29 Dec 2014 22:58, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>> >>>> It only happens here when the logging program (N1MM+) is active, >>>> which suggests it is related to traffic on the RS232 link - perhaps >>>> some kind of data collision which is being resolved by timeouts. >>> >>> N1MM Logger (both Classic and Plus) is extremely aggressive in its >>> polling - something like 7 or 9 "GET" items - including FA; FB; and >>> IF; all at once every 300 ms. Add a second polling source - e.g. the >>> P3 - and the chance of collision, timeout, and/or buffer overflow >>> gets fairly substantial rather quickly. >>> >>> 73, >>> >>> ... Joe, W4TV > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-bug-tp7596500p7596508.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to > [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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