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P3 cursors

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k7hbg @dslextreme.com

P3 cursors

Good thought Stewart!

I had been thinking of this new feature for a while now but you gave it
wings.
The frequency difference on the display between the cursor and the
marker(s) or, between the markers would be a most welcome addition

Thanks and 73. Bob K7HBG
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Stewart@twinwood

Re: P3 cursors

With a high proportion of operating now involving 'Split' it might remove
the mental arithmetic involved, and help to reduce the number of "Up Up's"

;-)

73
Stewart G3RXQ
On Fri, 18 May 2012 18:18:49 -0700, k7hbg @dslextreme.com wrote:

> Good thought Stewart!
>
> I had been thinking of this new feature for a while now but you gave it
> wings.
> The frequency difference on the display between the cursor and the
> marker(s) or, between the markers would be a most welcome addition
>
> Thanks and 73. Bob K7HBG
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Arthur Burke

Re: P3 cursors

In reply to this post by k7hbg @dslextreme.com

Guess I don't understand what all the fuss is about. In "standard" mode,
there are two cursors on my P3 - one green and one sort of purplish (I have
a partial color blindness, but there is a distinct difference between the
two cursors, even for me).

Even if you're not operating in SPLIT mode, when you tune the VFO B (the
purplish marker) away from the frequency of VFO A, it stands out quite
prominently on the P3 display.

I operate mostly CW. When a split operation takes place, and I tune
somewhere "into the piluep" I might typically have reduced the SPAN to 20
kHz so there's 10 kHz on each side of the DX operating frequency. As I tune
the VFO B (most often it's actually the sub-receiver so I can also hear
what's going on in the pileup), you can see an obvious "gap" between the
two cursors.

Personally, I enjoy cruising through the pileup, trying to find who the DX
is currently working, trying to quickly discern a "pattern" (if any) of the
DX operator. When someone in a cluster spot writes that he worked 'em, it
is most often something like "QSX 14027.5" as opposed to "up 1.375."

With the sub-receiver engaged, split engaged and the difference in color
between the two cursors, I guess I fail to understand whey there would be a
huge need for anything else - at least anything else relating to the P3/K3
functionality that already exists.

I think any reasonable operator would only accidentally operate on the DX
frequency once or twice before it became a habit to engage SPLIT and then
"split" your xmit frequency. If a given op consistently makes the same
mistake of NOT operating split, a bunch of ugly descriptives come to mind!

Art - N4PJ

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:18 PM, k7hbg @dslextreme.com <[hidden email]
> wrote:

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: P3 cursors

> With the sub-receiver engaged, split engaged and the difference in
> color between the two cursors, I guess I fail to understand whey
> there would be a huge need for anything else - at least anything else
> relating to the P3/K3 functionality that already exists.

When split, RIT or XIT is engaged a third - RED transmit - cursor is
also visible. It is inexcusable for anyone with a P3 to ever fail to
realize they are/are not split simply because the red cursor is to
very visible. The transmit cursor is present when transmit frequency
is different from the main receiver frequency (when the K3 red "delta
F" LED is on) even if one turns off the VFO B cursor.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 5/19/2012 7:15 AM, Arthur Burke wrote:

> Guess I don't understand what all the fuss is about. In "standard" mode,
> there are two cursors on my P3 - one green and one sort of purplish (I have
> a partial color blindness, but there is a distinct difference between the
> two cursors, even for me).
>
> Even if you're not operating in SPLIT mode, when you tune the VFO B (the
> purplish marker) away from the frequency of VFO A, it stands out quite
> prominently on the P3 display.
>
> I operate mostly CW. When a split operation takes place, and I tune
> somewhere "into the piluep" I might typically have reduced the SPAN to 20
> kHz so there's 10 kHz on each side of the DX operating frequency. As I tune
> the VFO B (most often it's actually the sub-receiver so I can also hear
> what's going on in the pileup), you can see an obvious "gap" between the
> two cursors.
>
> Personally, I enjoy cruising through the pileup, trying to find who the DX
> is currently working, trying to quickly discern a "pattern" (if any) of the
> DX operator. When someone in a cluster spot writes that he worked 'em, it
> is most often something like "QSX 14027.5" as opposed to "up 1.375."
>
> With the sub-receiver engaged, split engaged and the difference in color
> between the two cursors, I guess I fail to understand whey there would be a
> huge need for anything else - at least anything else relating to the P3/K3
> functionality that already exists.
>
> I think any reasonable operator would only accidentally operate on the DX
> frequency once or twice before it became a habit to engage SPLIT and then
> "split" your xmit frequency. If a given op consistently makes the same
> mistake of NOT operating split, a bunch of ugly descriptives come to mind!
>
> Art - N4PJ
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:18 PM, k7hbg @dslextreme.com<[hidden email]
>> wrote:
>
>> Good thought Stewart!
>>
>> I had been thinking of this new feature for a while now but you gave it
>> wings.
>> The frequency difference on the display between the cursor and the
>> marker(s) or, between the markers would be a most welcome addition
>>
>> Thanks and 73. Bob K7HBG
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Arthur Burke

Re: P3 cursors

Thanks Joe. I hadn't noticed that. I seldom use RIT/XIT when working split,
but I played with that to demonstrate what you're saying.

Didn't realize the cursor actually changes color (on VFO B/SubRX) from
purplish to red - I just knew it was quite simple to distinguish the diff
between where I was listening and where I would be transmitting!

My partial color-blindness is referred to as "red-green" but I have no
trouble seeing the obvious green line for the VFO A and the "other" color
for the VFO B.

My affliction is revealed by the test of pages with all the colored dots.
(Wechsler or something like that.) People with normal vision see numbers -
the numbers tend to stand out distinctly among all the colored dots. Those
with red-green color-blindness (surprisingly common) can eventually find
the numbers, but they don't "leap" off the page like they do for "normal"
people.

Fortunately, stand-alone, distinct colors (like the red and green of a
traffic light!) do not cause problems.

Art - N4PJ

On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 7:28 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > With the sub-receiver engaged, split engaged and the difference in
> > color between the two cursors, I guess I fail to understand whey
> > there would be a huge need for anything else - at least anything else
> > relating to the P3/K3 functionality that already exists.
>
> When split, RIT or XIT is engaged a third - RED transmit - cursor is
> also visible. It is inexcusable for anyone with a P3 to ever fail to
> realize they are/are not split simply because the red cursor is to
> very visible. The transmit cursor is present when transmit frequency
> is different from the main receiver frequency (when the K3 red "delta
> F" LED is on) even if one turns off the VFO B cursor.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 5/19/2012 7:15 AM, Arthur Burke wrote:
> > Guess I don't understand what all the fuss is about. In "standard" mode,
> > there are two cursors on my P3 - one green and one sort of purplish (I
> have
> > a partial color blindness, but there is a distinct difference between the
> > two cursors, even for me).
> >
> > Even if you're not operating in SPLIT mode, when you tune the VFO B (the
> > purplish marker) away from the frequency of VFO A, it stands out quite
> > prominently on the P3 display.
> >
> > I operate mostly CW. When a split operation takes place, and I tune
> > somewhere "into the piluep" I might typically have reduced the SPAN to 20
> > kHz so there's 10 kHz on each side of the DX operating frequency. As I
> tune
> > the VFO B (most often it's actually the sub-receiver so I can also hear
> > what's going on in the pileup), you can see an obvious "gap" between the
> > two cursors.
> >
> > Personally, I enjoy cruising through the pileup, trying to find who the
> DX
> > is currently working, trying to quickly discern a "pattern" (if any) of
> the
> > DX operator. When someone in a cluster spot writes that he worked 'em, it
> > is most often something like "QSX 14027.5" as opposed to "up 1.375."
> >
> > With the sub-receiver engaged, split engaged and the difference in color
> > between the two cursors, I guess I fail to understand whey there would
> be a
> > huge need for anything else - at least anything else relating to the
> P3/K3
> > functionality that already exists.
> >
> > I think any reasonable operator would only accidentally operate on the DX
> > frequency once or twice before it became a habit to engage SPLIT and then
> > "split" your xmit frequency. If a given op consistently makes the same
> > mistake of NOT operating split, a bunch of ugly descriptives come to
> mind!
> >
> > Art - N4PJ
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:18 PM, k7hbg @dslextreme.com<
> [hidden email]
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> Good thought Stewart!
> >>
> >> I had been thinking of this new feature for a while now but you gave
> it
> >> wings.
> >> The frequency difference on the display between the cursor and the
> >> marker(s) or, between the markers would be a most welcome addition
> >>
> >> Thanks and 73. Bob K7HBG
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy-3

Re: P3 cursors

In reply to this post by Stewart@twinwood

Hi Stewart,

As I am not familiar with the P3, and I do not know how many markers are
available, but if several markers are available then your suggestion if
followed would remove a lot of mental arithmatic during a DX pileup. I use
my Perseus as a panadapter, and it displays the frequency difference (and
amplitude difference) between a signal at Marker1 and other signals marked
by the other markers, when in delta mode.

As just one of several examples. As do many others, I attempt to discern
the DX station's listening pattern in a pileup before calling. By placing
Marker 1 on the DX's frequency and the other markers on the frequency of
each station being worked, the listening pattern in most cases soon becomes
clear if the marker deltas are displayed. No mental arithmatic :-)

Coupled with "Quick Split", a powerful combination, but that's another
subject.

73,

Geoff
LX2AO

On May 19, 2012 at 07:52 +0200, Stewart G3RXQ wrote:

> With a high proportion of operating now involving 'Split' it might remove
> the mental arithmetic involved, and help to reduce the number of "Up
> Up's"
>
> ;-)
>
> 73
> Stewart G3RXQ

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k6dgw

Re: P3 cursors

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

On 5/19/2012 4:28 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> When split, RIT or XIT is engaged a third - RED transmit - cursor is
> also visible. It is inexcusable for anyone with a P3 to ever fail to
> realize they are/are not split simply because the red cursor is to
> very visible. The transmit cursor is present when transmit frequency
> is different from the main receiver frequency (when the K3 red "delta
> F" LED is on) even if one turns off the VFO B cursor.

A few months ago, an Elecraft customer asked Alan if a monochrome P3
waterfall option could be included in a FW update. To no fanfare, the
option appeared in the menu after the next update. It wasn't discussed
on the this list that I know of and I suspect that almost no one knows
it's there unless you spend a lot of time studying your P3 menu options.
The customer was me.

I'm one of the 0.001% of the male population with no color vision [we're
all male]. My wife explained that the waterfall background was very
dark blue [looked black], and the weak signals were dark blue [looked
black I guess, I couldn't see them]. They had to get to S6 or so before
I could discern them. In monochrome, I can see super-weak signals I
can't hear. I can even discern if it is CW, RTTY, or some digital mode
in some cases. Obviously, I miss out on quite a bit of the dazzle of
the Tokyo-By-Night radios that light up like the Ginza. Those
manufacturers would have done nothing for one customer, of course. More
basic, I'd have never found anyone to ask.

The P3 cursors are lines for me. In fixed-tune mode, my receive
frequency cursor moves with the "Big Knob" making it really easy to find
regardless of color. Depending on where I have the CW BW set, it may
also be a little fatter. In split, my TX frequency appears as another
line, always higher in frequency and it moves with the VFO B knob. I've
never heard the Up Cops sending "DOWN." It too is easy to find. Next
to the TX LED is a Delta-F LED that comes on if I am not transmitting on
my receive frequency ... for any reason whatsoever. Over on the
display, there will be a little arrow pointing down to VFO B if I'm
split. There are LED's around the RIT knob that light up if it [or XIT]
is engaged.

While I would take issue with Joe's use of "inexcusable" as a bit harsh,
I can't think of many more things Elecraft could have done to tell me
that I'm not transmitting on my receive frequency. And they've managed
to do it for a ham who couldn't see any difference when color TV came
along in the 50's. Nice going!! I can't see the numerals on the keypad
either, but it's not a problem, I know what a key pad looks like.

Now, if I can just figure out what the "+" in the lower right corner of
the main display is telling me ...

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
- www.cqp.org

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dmb@lightstream.net

Re: P3 cursors

Hello Fred,

That "+" symbol indicates that QRQ is ON. You can turn it ON or OFF via
the Config menu option "CW QRQ"

73, Dale
WA8SRA

On 5/19/2012 11:43 AM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> ...
> Now, if I can just figure out what the "+" in the lower right corner
> of the main display is telling me ... 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern
> California Contest Club - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012 -
> www.cqp.org
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list Home:
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> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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Stewart@twinwood

Re: P3 cursors

In reply to this post by Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy-3

Hi Geoff,
I seem to have muddied the waters by bringing Split into the cursor delta discussion.

Leaving aside changing of cursor colour (colors) and RIT/XIT (which are irrelevant as
many SSB splits as they wider than those controls), my original request was for the P3
to show the difference in frequency between the two (2) markers.

Wish I'd not bothered...

Stewart G3RXQ

On Sat, 19 May 2012 17:07:42 +0200, Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy wrote:

> Hi Stewart,
>
> As I am not familiar with the P3, and I do not know how many markers are
> available, but if several markers are available then your suggestion if
> followed would remove a lot of mental arithmatic during a DX pileup. I use
> my Perseus as a panadapter, and it displays the frequency difference (and
> amplitude difference) between a signal at Marker1 and other signals marked
> by the other markers, when in delta mode.
>
> As just one of several examples. As do many others, I attempt to discern
> the DX station's listening pattern in a pileup before calling. By placing
> Marker 1 on the DX's frequency and the other markers on the frequency of
> each station being worked, the listening pattern in most cases soon becomes
> clear if the marker deltas are displayed. No mental arithmatic :-)
>
> Coupled with "Quick Split", a powerful combination, but that's another
> subject.
>
> 73,
>
> Geoff
> LX2AO
>
>
> On May 19, 2012 at 07:52 +0200, Stewart G3RXQ wrote:
>
>> With a high proportion of operating now involving 'Split' it might remove
>> the mental arithmetic involved, and help to reduce the number of "Up
>> Up's"
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> 73
>> Stewart G3RXQ

k6dgw

Re: P3 cursors

In reply to this post by dmb@lightstream.net

On 5/19/2012 9:17 AM, Dale Boresz wrote:
> Hello Fred,
>
> That "+" symbol indicates that QRQ is ON. You can turn it ON or OFF via
> the Config menu option "CW QRQ"

Thank you Dale! I vaguely recall the long list thread on "CW QRQ." I
rarely send above 25 WPM except in contests when I have to grab the
paddle. I generally run N1MM/Winkey at 28-30 WPM in contests and it
asserts PTT so I'm not QSK. I turned the QRQ off but can't tell the
difference.

I'll add it to the "List Of Icons I Know About Now."

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
- www.cqp.org

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Vic Rosenthal

Re: P3 cursors

There is never a reason to turn QRQ off. It improves the sound of the sidetone when QSK is
on at any speed, although it doesn't make much difference in the transmitted signals below
about 33 wpm. It is automatically off when the K3 can't support it, which is when you are
in SPLIT or have RIT or XIT on.

The ability to turn it off is a vestige of the initial pre-beta implementation, when it
needed to be turned off in order to use SPLIT/XIT/RIT. But Wayne made it automatic, so
this is not required. It's possible that he will remove the switch.

On 5/19/2012 10:17 AM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> On 5/19/2012 9:17 AM, Dale Boresz wrote:
>> Hello Fred,
>>
>> That "+" symbol indicates that QRQ is ON. You can turn it ON or OFF via
>> the Config menu option "CW QRQ"
>
> Thank you Dale! I vaguely recall the long list thread on "CW QRQ." I
> rarely send above 25 WPM except in contests when I have to grab the
> paddle. I generally run N1MM/Winkey at 28-30 WPM in contests and it
> asserts PTT so I'm not QSK. I turned the QRQ off but can't tell the
> difference.
>
> I'll add it to the "List Of Icons I Know About Now."
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
> - www.cqp.org

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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Pierfrancesco Caci

Re: P3 cursors

I vaguely remember it having another side effect on shift/width...
Ah, here it is (page 54 of the manual):

"Filter passband SHIFT/LOCUT/HICUT cannot be used when CW QRQ is in effect"

Depending on your operating habits, that can be a good reason to not
enable QRQ.

>>>>> "Vic" == Vic K2VCO <[hidden email]> writes:

Vic> There is never a reason to turn QRQ off. It improves the sound of the sidetone when QSK is
Vic> on at any speed, although it doesn't make much difference in the transmitted signals below
Vic> about 33 wpm. It is automatically off when the K3 can't support it, which is when you are
Vic> in SPLIT or have RIT or XIT on.

Vic> The ability to turn it off is a vestige of the initial pre-beta implementation, when it
Vic> needed to be turned off in order to use SPLIT/XIT/RIT. But Wayne made it automatic, so
Vic> this is not required. It's possible that he will remove the switch.

--
Pierfrancesco Caci, ik5pvx
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Vic Rosenthal

Re: P3 cursors

Oops, you're right. Just tried it. Oh well, I never use those things anyway.

On 5/19/2012 12:52 PM, Pierfrancesco Caci wrote:

>
> I vaguely remember it having another side effect on shift/width...
> Ah, here it is (page 54 of the manual):
>
> "Filter passband SHIFT/LOCUT/HICUT cannot be used when CW QRQ is in effect"
>
> Depending on your operating habits, that can be a good reason to not
> enable QRQ.
>
>>>>>> "Vic" == Vic K2VCO<[hidden email]> writes:
>
>
> Vic> There is never a reason to turn QRQ off. It improves the sound of the sidetone when QSK is
> Vic> on at any speed, although it doesn't make much difference in the transmitted signals below
> Vic> about 33 wpm. It is automatically off when the K3 can't support it, which is when you are
> Vic> in SPLIT or have RIT or XIT on.
>
> Vic> The ability to turn it off is a vestige of the initial pre-beta implementation, when it
> Vic> needed to be turned off in order to use SPLIT/XIT/RIT. But Wayne made it automatic, so
> Vic> this is not required. It's possible that he will remove the switch.
>
>

--
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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