P3 for Windows anyone?
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How's this for an accessory...having the P3 running off Windows with full control and full display? Having macros assigned to function buttons that can perform a whole set of P3 commands for any purpose including contesting, screen capture, video recording, internet streaming and broadcasting....
I am starting the design, and have the proof of concept in place. I will be looking for beta-testers in a few weeks. In the mean time, these are the envisioned features for version 1: 1) Real time display of the P3 screen in a Windows 7 window, supporting resolutions of the SVGA with up-scaling and down-scaling. 2) Control of span, scale, averaging, reference level and the ability to assign the settings of one or all of these to a function key (8 of them) 3) Using the mouse to assign the markers and control the K3, and have instant recall of several of them at the click of a button 4) Do your have other ideas and wishes? Let me know and they may be in the first version... Tom VA2FSQ |
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On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 9:05 AM, tomb18 <[hidden email]> wrote:
1) Real time display of the P3 screen in a Windows 7 window, supporting > resolutions of the SVGA with up-scaling and down-scaling. > 2) Control of span, scale, averaging, reference level and the ability to > assign the settings of one or all of these to a function key (8 of them) > 3) Using the mouse to assign the markers and control the K3, and have > instant recall of several of them at the click of a button > 4) Do your have other ideas and wishes? > Yep, fully integrated P3 band map display of packet, Skimmer, self, and worked spots. It's nice to see signals on the P3; it would be really nice to have callsigns assigned to them. (I'm not sure, but I think LP-Pan does all this.) Ski Exuberantly, Hank, W6SX Mammoth Lakes, California Elevation 8083 feet in John Muir's Range of Light ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by tomb18
I find that to be an odd project, given that the selling point of the P3 was its ability to provide users with a tightly integrated (with the K3) spectrum display with its own control software that did not require a computer to function. If what you propose is what someone wanted, why wouldn't they simply buy an LP-Pan and a good audio card at a combined price half that of the P3? Did I miss something? (probably ... I often do). 73, Dave AB7E On 4/8/2012 9:05 AM, tomb18 wrote: > How's this for an accessory...having the P3 running off Windows with full > control and full display? Having macros assigned to function buttons that > can perform a whole set of P3 commands for any purpose including contesting, > screen capture, video recording, internet streaming and broadcasting.... > > I am starting the design, and have the proof of concept in place. I will be > looking for beta-testers in a few weeks. In the mean time, these are the > envisioned features for version 1: > > 1) Real time display of the P3 screen in a Windows 7 window, supporting > resolutions of the SVGA with up-scaling and down-scaling. > 2) Control of span, scale, averaging, reference level and the ability to > assign the settings of one or all of these to a function key (8 of them) > 3) Using the mouse to assign the markers and control the K3, and have > instant recall of several of them at the click of a button > 4) Do your have other ideas and wishes? > > Let me know and they may be in the first version... > Tom VA2FSQ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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No kidding...
But now, I'll have both. And it will cost more than an LP-Pan, but when I want to pack up and go, I still don't need the computer. Anyhow it's a fun project. |
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In reply to this post by tomb18
I would like to see the P3 Display RTTY text.
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In reply to this post by tomb18
Sounds like an interesting project Tom. I had to give up my dual monitor setup to run the p3vga. It is quite addictive to see the full screen. But I run a lot of supporting software and have to run some minimized that I would like to keep more visible. Anyway, I would be happy to try out whatever you come up with. Sounds like fun.
..mike AI6II |
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Mike...
This topic is a rebirth of a thread that ran a month or two ago--I feel exactly the same way as you do, and for much the same reasons: my operating computer also serves in a number of other capacities, and I really hate the idea of giving up my second monitor to the sole use of the P3. I would like Tom's project to succeed, and will also be glad to alpha- and beta-test the project. John Ragle -- W1ZI ===== On 4/9/2012 10:32 PM, ai6ii wrote: > Sounds like an interesting project Tom. I had to give up my dual monitor > setup to run the p3vga. It is quite addictive to see the full screen. But I > run a lot of supporting software and have to run some minimized that I would > like to keep more visible. Anyway, I would be happy to try out whatever you > come up with. Sounds like fun. > > ..mike AI6II > > -- > View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-for-Windows-anyone-tp7447888p7451608.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > -- Sent from my lovely old Dell XPS 420 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by tomb18
>...I hate the idea of giving up my second monitor to the sole use of the
P3... Hmmm..... This is starting to sound a lot like LP-Pan to me. Ralph, VE7XF ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by John Ragle
Instead of? I have an LP-Pan (and an appropriate sound card), also 2
PMSDR, both of which work. I ama very space-limited, and got tired of the little critters skating around on the desk. I also like the tight integration of the P3 with the K3. It seems to me OK to have a Subaru and a Kia in the same garage. It also seems to me that a modicum of civility might well be maintained... John Ragle -- W1ZI ===== On 4/10/2012 12:42 AM, David Gilbert wrote: > > Then why did you buy a P3 instead of an LP-Pan or SDR-IQ or QS1R? > > Dave AB7E > > > On 4/9/2012 7:42 PM, John Ragle wrote: >> Mike... >> >> This topic is a rebirth of a thread that ran a month or two ago--I >> feel exactly the same way as you do, and for much the same reasons: my >> operating computer also serves in a number of other capacities, and I >> really hate the idea of giving up my second monitor to the sole use of >> the P3. I would like Tom's project to succeed, and will also be glad to >> alpha- and beta-test the project. >> >> John Ragle -- W1ZI >> >> ===== >> >> On 4/9/2012 10:32 PM, ai6ii wrote: >>> Sounds like an interesting project Tom. I had to give up my dual monitor >>> setup to run the p3vga. It is quite addictive to see the full screen. But I >>> run a lot of supporting software and have to run some minimized that I would >>> like to keep more visible. Anyway, I would be happy to try out whatever you >>> come up with. Sounds like fun. >>> >>> ..mike AI6II >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context:http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-for-Windows-anyone-tp7447888p7451608.html >>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post:mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >>> >>> -- Sent from my lovely old Dell XPS 420 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Well, I believe I've answered your twice-asked question. Here is further
elaboration. You have made a number of faulty deductions: e.g. (1) assuming I "don't like the way it works," [re the P3; not true]; (2) assuming that the LP-Pan "that seems to work the way you want it to,'" [not true]; (3) assuming that the curiosity and endorsement of Tom's project means that I would immediately ditch the P3's native mode in favor of a window'd version [which I might or might not do]. I mentioned (vide infra) that my shack computer serves many purposes more or less simultaneously, and that the loss of one monitor is a serious disadvantage. I also pointed out the close integration of the P3 with the K3, which I find to be excellent and advantageous. First, it seems that many people /assume/ that the K3/P3 combination is a stand-alone unit. This is far from true. It is quite inadequate in its coverage of digital modes. I would agree that as far as SSB and CW go it is a great unit, but almost all of my use of the K3/P3 combination requires a computer. I am not alone in this...look sometime at the digital segments of the bands. I operate PSK at various speeds, RTTY, Olivia and other similar modes, Hellschreiber, MS and JT modes, etc. in addition to CW and SSB on bands through 432 MHz. The stand-alone pair cannot do many of these modes. Second, with a monitor pretty much occupied by digital software, */dedicating/* my remaining second monitor to the P3 pretty much rules out other simultaneous uses, such as email, news, DX Sherlock, AZmap and other software. Third, with the exception of NaP3, available software for LP-Pan or any of the SDRs is terribly designed and tends to take up an entire screen in itself. Fourth, I meant endorsement of Tom's project of windowing the P3 output to show encouragement of the exploratory/educational aspect of the hobby, which is deemed a significant part of amateur radio operation. I could go on and on in this vein, but I must say that it is really none of your business just what choices I make in implementing my use of the hobby. I noticed in the last round of discussion of this thread that there were people (such as yourself) who seem threatened by a new idea that may extend the utility of Elecraft's excellent hardware. This represents a lack of intellectual curiosity that reflects poorly on amateur radio. John Ragle -- W1ZI ===== On 4/10/2012 4:17 AM, David Gilbert wrote: > What was uncivil? I was honestly curious why you'd buy a P3 when you > don't like the way it works, and I'm even more curious why you'd buy a > P3 when you already have the LP-Pan that seems to work the way you > want it to. > > Nothing wrong with having a Subaru and a Kia in the same garage unless > you don't like the way one of them drives. > > Dave AB7E > > > > On 4/9/2012 11:04 PM, John Ragle wrote: >> My operating computer also serves in a number of other capacities, and I >> really hate the idea of giving up my second monitor to the sole use of >> the P3. I would like Tom's project to succeed, and will also be glad to >> alpha- and beta-test the project. >> >> John Ragle -- W1ZI >> >> ===== >> >> On 4/9/2012 10:32 PM, ai6ii wrote: >>>>> Sounds like an interesting project Tom. I had to give up my dual monitor >>>>> setup to run the p3vga. It is quite addictive to see the full screen. But I >>>>> run a lot of supporting software and have to run some minimized that I would >>>>> like to keep more visible. Anyway, I would be happy to try out whatever you >>>>> come up with. Sounds like fun. >>>>> >>>>> ..mike AI6II >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> View this message in context:http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-for-Windows-anyone-tp7447888p7451608.html >>>>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>>> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>>> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>>> Post:mailto:[hidden email] >>>>> >>>>> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net >>>>> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- Sent from my lovely old Dell XPS 420 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by tomb18
This project is for fun and also will allow me to use my pan adapter remotely I hope.
One thing I neglected to mention, you will need a VGA capture board to get the video onto the pc. |
Re: P3 for Windows anyone?
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In reply to this post by John Ragle
On 4/10/2012 7:37 AM, John Ragle wrote: > > Third, with the exception of NaP3, available software for LP-Pan or > any of the SDRs is terribly designed and tends to take up an entire > screen in itself. NaP3 is just as bad as any of the other software for LP-PAN (or any other IF/soundcard based system) and is virtually indistinguishable from PowerSDR-IF Stage in the collapsed mode. In addition, NaP3's insists on controlling width/shift of the K3 such that it becomes impossible to use the K3/KRX3 and the demodulator capability of the underlying PowerSDR code at the same time. Finally, by deleting the CAT interface from the underlying PowerSDR code, it is not possible to use NaP3 at the same time as a logging program (or other CAT application like CW Skimmer) without resorting to LP-Bridge/LPB2 which have been documented to cause issues with many loggers (e.g., N1MM Logger, DXLab Suite, etc.). > I operate PSK at various speeds, RTTY, Olivia and other similar > modes, Hellschreiber, MS and JT modes, etc. in addition to CW and SSB > on bands through 432 MHz. The stand-alone pair cannot do many of > these modes. Neither can any of the other SDR Consoles (NaP3, PowerSDR-IF, etc.) unless you are coupling their "receiver" code to a separate digital mode program via virtual audio cables or looping line out audio back to a separate sound card. As a pure *panadapter* the SDR consoles have fewer capabilities and less flexibility than the P3. Further the SDR console/sound card approach imposes a rather steep performance penalty on modest computers. 73, ... Joe, W4TV ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by tomb18
I was curious why you didn't mention this at first -- I was trying to figure your intent in your design. I used to work with frame grabbers a long time ago (late 1980s) on very expensive graphics equipment (over $100K per screen). A frame grabber back then was a $20,000 option. Yes, I know they have come down in price in today's technology but I was wondering if you had spec'd out any devices and price ranges. I would prefer an external device, not internal backplane device, to use with a laptop.
73, phil, K7PEH On Apr 10, 2012, at 5:08 AM, tomb18 wrote: > This project is for fun and also will allow me to use my pan adapter remotely > I hope. > One thing I neglected to mention, you will need a VGA capture board to get > the video onto the pc. > > > -- > View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-for-Windows-anyone-tp7447888p7452685.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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There are not too many frame grabbers out there which support VGA. The one I am using is an Avermedia Game Broadcaster HD PCIe board. It has VGA in and HDMI as well. It will support up to 1920x1080x60 with no flicker, delays etc. It costs around $140. Of course once you add up the P3+SVGA+Framegrabber, price is kinda high, but you them have completely portable operation if you wish, fixed based operation with a large display for the P3 and computer operated pan-adapter as well.
The main thing is that all processing of the IF signal is still done by the P3, and the integration is the same as if it is alone. On the other hand, control is with the Windows PC and a ot can be done at this point. Anyways, I have 2 30"monitors + the 24" for the P3...I said there has to be a better way, so I'm making one. So far so good. |
Re: P3 for Windows anyone? [END of Thread]
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In reply to this post by John Ragle
Folks, Time to end this thread.
73, Eric List Moderator --- www.elecraft.com ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: P3 for Windows anyone? [END of Thread]
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To clarify a bit - This posting was intended to close the thread of
criticisms and somewhat un-cordial pro/con discussion on the topic. It was not meant to negatively impact the original author of this thread. He can feel free to post updates and ask additional questions as needed. Please remember that -polite- discussion is a central guideline for this reflector. 73, Eric Elecraft List Moderator etc. --- www.elecraft.com On 4/10/2012 2:58 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: > Folks, Time to end this thread. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Good show. These f
Sent from my iPhone On Apr 10, 2012, at 6:11 PM, "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft" <[hidden email]> wrote: > To clarify a bit - This posting was intended to close the thread of > criticisms and somewhat un-cordial pro/con discussion on the topic. It > was not meant to negatively impact the original author of this thread. > He can feel free to post updates and ask additional questions as needed. > > Please remember that -polite- discussion is a central guideline for this > reflector. > > 73, > > Eric > Elecraft List Moderator etc. > --- > www.elecraft.com > > > On 4/10/2012 2:58 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: >> Folks, Time to end this thread. >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Chuck, KE9UW
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In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ
Meant to say these apps, etc make it all more fun.
Sent from my iPhone On Apr 10, 2012, at 6:11 PM, "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft" <[hidden email]> wrote: > To clarify a bit - This posting was intended to close the thread of > criticisms and somewhat un-cordial pro/con discussion on the topic. It > was not meant to negatively impact the original author of this thread. > He can feel free to post updates and ask additional questions as needed. > > Please remember that -polite- discussion is a central guideline for this > reflector. > > 73, > > Eric > Elecraft List Moderator etc. > --- > www.elecraft.com > > > On 4/10/2012 2:58 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: >> Folks, Time to end this thread. >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Chuck, KE9UW
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Thanks Eric,
If anyone knows how to stream video to a remote web browser using DirectShow filters, please drop me an email. Thanks |
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Ok, I have run into a few logistics issues that I hope someone can assist with.
In order for the P3 to control the K3 it must maintain communications via a serial link. Thus one needs to use a com port sharing program such as LP-Bridge or LP-Bridge 2. This works fine within the design parameters of the program. As I have not used these programs before, are there any issues with them that I should be aware of? Everything is working fine and far better than I thought. I have found a bug in the P3 firmware: Issuing the #REF command only allows setting over -140 to -90 not to +10 as stated in the manual. This is not big issue since if you need your reference level at -90 you have other problems! These will be the features in the first version: Please let me know if I have missed anything: Setting of reference level Setting of Span Setting of scale Setting of center frequency Turning on and off of waterfall Turning Peak Hold on and off Turning and setting averaging (waterfall also) Using Markers A and B by mouse 10 customizable function keys: Can set span, or almost anything that the P3 can do. Each key can contain many commands at the same time. Screen capture Spectrum recording (there may or may not be compression in the first release..) Fully scalable spectrum display from 640x400 to 1920x1080 I will also have a "remote" mode. Now I would appreciate peoples feedback on this. You will need to do a remote login such as using mstsc or Logmein etc. Of course, if you did this at full resolution you will need huge bandwidth. Most upload speeds for the Internet are around 1mb/s. Therefore I will offer a reduced resolution and video update mode. Perhaps something like 640x400 and 10 fps.Can anyone suggest another way to do this? Well that's it for now. I expect I will have something for release in a couple of weeks. The first release will be for Windows 7 x64. I will try for the x32 as well. I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks, Tom VA2FSQ |
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