P3 v SubRX

[Edward A. Dauer]

Don ‹

I agree with Dave.  I have both - the SubRX from the beginning and the P3
a year or so later.  I have become addicted to the P3; but can¹t remember
using the SubRX for anything other than chasing DX in pileups.  Even in
contests, where operating a significant split is usually a no-no, the XIT
alone has been enough while the subRX imposes a small but noticeable hit
on weak-signal sensitivity.  But I am strictly CW - there may be
advantages in other modes.

Ted, KN1CBR

>Message: 8
>Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2015 09:50:49 -0700
>From: David Cole <[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] My K3 needs pimping
>Message-ID: <[e-mail]7Z>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
>Panadaptor, you will probably get more use from it than the sub rx.  I
>do...  I had occasion to have it mine off for a bit, and it is crippling
>to no longer have one...  I use it so much more than a sub RX.
>--
>Thanks and 73's,
>For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
>www.nk7z.net
>for MixW support see;
>http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
>for Dopplergram information see:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
>for MM-SSTV see:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info
>
>
>On Mon, 2015-03-09 at 16:24 +0000, Don Putnick via Elecraft wrote:
>> Okay, folks. Please advise me on a worthy cause - my K3. I'm a casual
>>DXer and I don't contest. My main modes are SSB and soundcard digital.
>>I'm fully stocked with roofing filters, and I have the KPA500 and
>>KAT500. Should my next purchase be a subreceiver or a panadapter, and
>>why? 73 Don NA6Z K3 #5495
>> '
>> ______________________________________________________________

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[Eric Ross-2]

I am in full agreement.  I feel blind without my P3.  At a glance I can
tell if the band is active or not.  For example, last weekend with the
DX contest and the wide open 20m, the scope was almost solid in certain
spectrums.

I find that I use the subRX if I am getting bored on the 75m net and
want someone else to listen to.  I also find it useful for tuning in the
"+5" ahead of time before leaving the net with someone and making sure
that it is available.  I am not set up with a separate Rx antenna so I
can't comment on how useful diversity Rx is.

Bottom line, if I have to choose only one, I would choose the P3.

Eric, WB7SDE


On Mon, Mar 9, 2015, at 01:00 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:

> Don ‹
>
> I agree with Dave.  I have both - the SubRX from the beginning and the P3
> a year or so later.  I have become addicted to the P3; but can¹t remember
> using the SubRX for anything other than chasing DX in pileups.  Even in
> contests, where operating a significant split is usually a no-no, the XIT
> alone has been enough while the subRX imposes a small but noticeable hit
> on weak-signal sensitivity.  But I am strictly CW - there may be
> advantages in other modes.
>
> Ted, KN1CBR
>
>
> >Message: 8
> >Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2015 09:50:49 -0700
> >From: David Cole <[hidden email]>
> >To: [hidden email]
> >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] My K3 needs pimping
> >Message-ID: <[e-mail]7Z>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> >Panadaptor, you will probably get more use from it than the sub rx.  I
> >do...  I had occasion to have it mine off for a bit, and it is crippling
> >to no longer have one...  I use it so much more than a sub RX.
> >--
> >Thanks and 73's,
> >For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
> >www.nk7z.net
> >for MixW support see;
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
> >for Dopplergram information see:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
> >for MM-SSTV see:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info
> >
> >
> >On Mon, 2015-03-09 at 16:24 +0000, Don Putnick via Elecraft wrote:
> >> Okay, folks. Please advise me on a worthy cause - my K3. I'm a casual
> >>DXer and I don't contest. My main modes are SSB and soundcard digital.
> >>I'm fully stocked with roofing filters, and I have the KPA500 and
> >>KAT500. Should my next purchase be a subreceiver or a panadapter, and
> >>why? 73 Don NA6Z K3 #5495
> >> '
> >> ______________________________________________________________
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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--
  Eric Ross
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[w8fn]

I would agree that the P3 should probably take priority over the
Subreceiver for a new buy, mostly due to the many different things it
can do for you. But... my experience this weekend trying to work E30FB
on 20 CW sure made me glad I had the Sub. I would never have worked them
using just the scope.

Problem is, it seems the way people try to work DX these days makes it
virtually impossible to depend on a visual cue to know who's being
worked by the DX if there's a pileup of any size at all. E30FB had the
pile spread out for better than 20 kHz, and the scope showed a constant
morass of signals all across the entire span. Aside from the obliviots
who continually send their call whether the DX is listening or not,
there are many who apparently see nothing wrong with coming back or
continuing to call when the DX operator replies to a call that obviously
isn't theirs. Every time E30FB would answer a complete call there were
dozens of perfectly timed signals that jumped up all across the extent
of the pileup. Luckily, using the second receiver I managed to stumble
on to one that turned out to actually be the guy he was working. A
minute or two of careful listening around that frequency revealed the
operator's tuning pattern, and after just a couple of calls I was in the
log too.

If you really want to work rare DX these days you're going to NEED the
second receiver. This isn't due to any problems with the capabilities of
the P3 -- it's the result of operating practices that continue to
deteriorate. You'll need all the tools you can get and all the cunning
you can muster to work DX through the Doofus curtain these days.

73...
Randy, W8FN
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[Bill Frantz]

I had the same problem trying to work K1N. I don't have the
subreceiver, and trying to identify the station being worked
gets really hard as you switch between frequencies with the
REVerse button. It doesn't help that the tuning knob for the
pileup changes when you hold REV. Jack, W6FB commented that it
was really nice with the DX in the left ear, the pileup in the
right, and only one knob to turn.

I'll probably add the subreceiver to the radio, but there are
some higher priority pieces.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/9/15 at 6:02 PM, [hidden email] (Randy Farmer) wrote:

>I would agree that the P3 should probably take priority over the Subreceiver for a new buy, mostly due to the many different things it can do for you. But... my experience this weekend trying to work E30FB on 20 CW sure made me glad I had the Sub. I would never have worked them using just the scope.
>
>Problem is, it seems the way people try to work DX these days
>makes it virtually impossible to depend on a visual cue to know
>who's being worked by the DX if there's a pileup of any size at
>all. E30FB had the pile spread out for better than 20 kHz, and
>the scope showed a constant morass of signals all across the
>entire span. Aside from the obliviots who continually send
>their call whether the DX is listening or not, there are many
>who apparently see nothing wrong with coming back or continuing
>to call when the DX operator replies to a call that obviously
>isn't theirs. Every time E30FB would answer a complete call
>there were dozens of perfectly timed signals that jumped up all
>across the extent of the pileup. Luckily, using the second
>receiver I managed to stumble on to one that turned out to
>actually be the guy he was working. A minute or two of careful
>listening around that frequency revealed the operator's tuning
>pattern, and after just a couple of calls I was in the log too.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz        | "I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn
up the
408-356-8506       | intelligence.  There's a knob called
"brightness", but
www.pwpconsult.com | it doesn't work. -- Gallagher

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[Carl Yaffey]

Randy, I can do the same thing by holding REV and dialing around with VFO A. Certainly not as convenient as having a subRX but it works. To make sure I don’t accidentally lose the DX's frequency, I lock VFO A first.
Yes, I am amazed and shocked at the horrible operating practices I now see. I weep. :(
73.


> On Mar 9, 2015, at 9:02 PM, Randy Farmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I would agree that the P3 should probably take priority over the Subreceiver for a new buy, mostly due to the many different things it can do for you. But... my experience this weekend trying to work E30FB on 20 CW sure made me glad I had the Sub. I would never have worked them using just the scope.

Carl Yaffey  K8NU
Recording studio.
[hidden email]
614 268 6353, Columbus OH
http://www.carl-yaffey.com
http://www.grassahol.com








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[Rick WA6NHC]

You're preachin to da choir son.  Fine job though.

K1N was awful for DQRM, lids and untrained idiots.  3G0ZC the next week
wasn't quite as bad, nor as rare.  E30FB is rough here on the West Coast
due to lack of signal strength, conditions and the same crowds.  You
can't hear, what isn't there.

I see that problem cause as twofold:  Lack of noobs seeking an Elmer for
proper training NOT covered adequately in the classes or tests; Lack of
folks willing to become an Elmer to guide the newcomers. That's WAY off
topic for here.

Putting in perspective and back on topic; the P3 was almost totally
useless for K1N, except to watch and measure the height and width of the
pileup (there WERE no holes to utilize in that pack).  What you said is
very true, the subreceiver helped, about as much because of the reasons
you stated too.  Together however, is still a deadly combination, by
watching the (group of) signal(s) on the P3 that the DX is working,
quickly tuning the receiver to the most likely being worked and
confirming by ear, they allowed me to gain 13 Q's with K1N on a low
dipole and some power (it's all in the DX pattern recognition, if
they're not purposely avoiding a pattern).  The other operating style
was simply work the edges of the pileup, don't be in the middle.

P3 and KRX3 in 'normal' DX collecting... fish:barrel.  They are the sole
reason I have 250 'entities' in the log over the last couple years.  
When I'm not traveling, I DX (sometimes I *am* the DX).  Oh yes, the
KPA500 helps, a LOT since I'm on a sole dipole.

I don't see things improving in the ranks, so anyone looking at the
purchase of the K Line should simply keep the budget open ended and
collect everything as they can.  P3 first (plan on the SVGA card too,
your eyes will never improve), then a KRX3, then flesh it out with more.

Let's look at your budget too.  The P3/SVGA combo costs versus the KRX3
with filters (mine are all filled the same in both, for diversity and to
minimize what my failing ears are subjected to when listening in two
places).  Add in that you'll have to replace the Synth card when you add
the KRX3 (or obtain two used ones, storing the new one for later, but
why) and I suspect that financially as well, the P3/SVGA will be more
reachable first.

That's my best reasoning for the P3 and why it should be first. It's the
better of the two choices and it's more financially obtainable.

Whatever you choose, good luck and good hunting.

Rick wa6nhc


On 3/9/2015 6:02 PM, Randy Farmer wrote:

> I would agree that the P3 should probably take priority over the
> Subreceiver for a new buy, mostly due to the many different things it
> can do for you. But... my experience this weekend trying to work E30FB
> on 20 CW sure made me glad I had the Sub. I would never have worked
> them using just the scope.
>
> Problem is, it seems the way people try to work DX these days makes it
> virtually impossible to depend on a visual cue to know who's being
> worked by the DX if there's a pileup of any size at all. E30FB had the
> pile spread out for better than 20 kHz, and the scope showed a
> constant morass of signals all across the entire span. Aside from the
> obliviots who continually send their call whether the DX is listening
> or not, there are many who apparently see nothing wrong with coming
> back or continuing to call when the DX operator replies to a call that
> obviously isn't theirs. Every time E30FB would answer a complete call
> there were dozens of perfectly timed signals that jumped up all across
> the extent of the pileup. Luckily, using the second receiver I managed
> to stumble on to one that turned out to actually be the guy he was
> working. A minute or two of careful listening around that frequency
> revealed the operator's tuning pattern, and after just a couple of
> calls I was in the log too.
>
> If you really want to work rare DX these days you're going to NEED the
> second receiver. This isn't due to any problems with the capabilities
> of the P3 -- it's the result of operating practices that continue to
> deteriorate. You'll need all the tools you can get and all the cunning
> you can muster to work DX through the Doofus curtain these days.
>
> 73...
> Randy, W8FN
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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