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P3SVGA

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KV5J

Re: P3SVGA

Jim,

And there is nothing on the P3 webpage that would lead me to believe that the display on the SVGA screen would differ, other than resolution, than what is seen on the P3 screen.

Keith

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: P3SVGA

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

> Also -- the K3 NB is really two NBs, and the one that looks at
> broadband noise DOES work in both the P3 and P3SVGA.

Jim, that information is incorrect. The K3 NB can not possibly have
any impact on the P3 or P3SVGA as the IF pick-off is at the output
of the first mixer - *before* any noise blanker gate. To confirm this,
examine "K3 RF Board 4 of 4" from the June 2010 K3 Schematics package
(on-line) and you will find the IF tap from which the P3 is fed is
connected to pin 1 - the input - of J77 the NB connector which is
*before* any NB action. In order for the hardware IF to be reflected
in the P3 the P3 would need to be fed from pin 7 of J77 (NB output).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-08-15 12:56 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 8/15/2014 9:36 AM, XE3/K5ENS via Elecraft wrote:
>> I am
>> saying that on the P3 screen with the NB on I can see weaker signals
>> than I
>> can see on the P3SVGA screen.
>
> http://www.elecraft.com/P3/p3.htm Scroll down to see a photo of how the
> SVGA compares to the P3 screen.
>
> Repeating my advice -- to see very weak signals, we need to do a lot of
> averaging to get rid of the noise. This is not a "blanking" function,
> but rather how averaging a spectral display causes random noise to
> cancel itself out, while discrete signals do not. There are separate
> display settings for the SVGA and for the P3. The SVGA settings are
> accessed via the SVGA selection on the Menu.
>
> Also -- the K3 NB is really two NBs, and the one that looks at broadband
> noise DOES work in both the P3 and P3SVGA.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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KC6CNN

Re: P3SVGA

In reply to this post by tomb18

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

James Rogers

Re: P3SVGA

In reply to this post by KV5J

I am sorry, I found the P3SVGA add on to be quite adequate. Perhaps you
can share your findings of the short fall.

I may be in error, but I believe the P3SVGA is operating on the data
from the P3 FFT. I expect a panadapter to display what is impinging my
antenna, not the result of processing later down the line. I can see
signals in respect to noise, and that is what I would want, not signals
in spite of noise. But then again, I am old school.

JIm, W4ATK

On 8/15/2014 9:24 AM, XE3/K5ENS via Elecraft wrote:

> My complaint is that I feel deceived about this product(P3SVGA add-on).
> Looking at the description I am lead to believe that the P3SVGA add-on board
> will allow me to view what I am seeing on the P3 on a large external screen.
> That is the way I read the ad. But this is NOT the case. I feel kinda
> cheated on this product. The ad needs to be changed to reflect this point.
> The P3SVGA display is NOT a copy of the P3 screen. I know the digital
> decoding is added. By the way has, for me using a K3 for 6 years, never
> worked well enough on weak signals to be beneficial. Whatever happens the NB
> is something I'd like to see added and I will lobby for it as much as I can.
> Hoping someday to see this added.
>
> 73,
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3SVGA-tp7592060p7592116.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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>

KV5J

Re: P3SVGA

Another clueless replier...

Have you even tried the NB in the P3 vs the SVGA screen. Obviously not. Sounds like your ideal radio would have no NB, NR, and heck no AGC. Just noise,noise,noise....

Keith

DaleJ

Re: P3SVGA

In reply to this post by KV5J

If my memory serves me, I believe Paul announced the NB function would be available on the P3/SVGA at a later FW update. I must go back a few weeks to find that posting or perhaps you could do a search.

I'm in digest mode so hopefully this will get though.

73
Dale, K9VUJ

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 09:36:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: XE3/K5ENS via Elecraft <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3SVGA
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Jim,

You are mixing 2 completely different items. The decoding of the digital
signals I could care less how that works. I don't use that function. I am
saying that on the P3 screen with the NB on I can see weaker signals than I
can see on the P3SVGA screen. The noise blanker does not work on the P3SVGA
board. I would like to see the NB function with the P3SVGA screen. I also
stated that to read the ad for the P3 it reads that I should expect to see
the same screen on the P3SVGA as I see on the P3. Only with higher
resolution. But that's not true. Since the NB only works on the P3 the
screens are different.

Keith
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James Rogers

Re: P3SVGA

In reply to this post by KV5J

Clueless??

1) The radio is to select a specific signal and provide the tools to
decode it. It very well could be to determine the source of undesirable
noise. Those tools include noise blanking, noise reduction, agc,
selectable filtering, a panadapter, etc. Each tool applied as
appropriate to the conditions.

2) The panadapter is simply one of those tools to show me the activity
over a band of frequencies, whatever that activity might be.

Jim, W4ATK
On 8/15/2014 2:50 PM, XE3/K5ENS via Elecraft wrote:

> Another clueless replier...
>
> Have you even tried the NB in the P3 vs the SVGA screen. Obviously not.
> Sounds like your ideal radio would have no NB, NR, and heck no AGC. Just
> noise,noise,noise....
>
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3SVGA-tp7592060p7592144.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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> .
>

Tim Herrick

Re: P3SVGA

In reply to this post by KC6CNN

I agree with Gerald. I have used Win4K3 in place of the HRD rig control software. It not only works much much better but also has
shared con ports for other software to also control the K Line. Plus he responds to any problem with a much more professional
attitude than others do.

73,
Tim Herrick, KQ8M
[hidden email]

AR-Cluster V6 kq8m.homedns.org
User Ports: 23, 7373 with local skimmer, 7374 without local skimmer
Server Ports: V6 3607, V4 Active 3605, V4 Passive 3606

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gerald Manthey
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 2:45 PM
To: Tom Blahovici
Cc: [hidden email]; Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3SVGA

I use Tom ' s software. It is stable and controls the elecraft line like no other. There are a few issues that he has told us about
and did say elecraft was notified and later I recheck and he did not hear back from them.
This software should be on the elecraft site. It controls the K-Line as well as the KX3 and has a terminal window.

I hope this issue gets resolved as the Win4k3suite is outstanding.

Hoping for a fast solution
Gerald - KC6CNN
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Jim Brown-10

Re: P3SVGA

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

On 8/15/2014 11:29 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> Jim, that information is incorrect. The K3 NB can not possibly have
> any impact on the P3 or P3SVGA as the IF pick-off is at the output
> of the first mixer - *before* any noise blanker gate.

Joe,

I've never studied the schematic or signal flow in the regard, but I
often study the screen of my P3, which DOES show reduction of noise when
the wider NB is active. 2-4 dB is typical for the types of noise for
which it is effective.

I appreciate the alert to the existence of the P3 NB. I last updated
firmware about six months ago, and it was not in that version. It does,
indeed, work pretty well.

73, Jim K9YC

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KV5J

Re: P3SVGA

"I appreciate the alert to the existence of the P3 NB. I last updated
firmware about six months ago, and it was not in that version. It does,
indeed, work pretty well."

And it would be great if it worked with the P3SVGA but it does nothing on that screen.

Keith

wayne burdick

Re: P3SVGA

Administrator

Agreed. This is on the firmware task list for the engineer working on P3 and PX3 code.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Aug 15, 2014, at 2:23 PM, XE3/K5ENS via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:

> "/I appreciate the alert to the existence of the P3 NB. I last updated
> firmware about six months ago, and it was not in that version. It does,
> indeed, work pretty well/."
>
>
> *And it would be great if it worked with the P3SVGA but it does nothing on
> that screen.
> *
>
> Keith

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: P3SVGA

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

> I often study the screen of my P3, which DOES show reduction of noise
> when the wider NB is active. 2-4 dB is typical for the types of noise
> for which it is effective.

2 - 4 dB may be due to upsetting the impedance at the IF feed but given
the circuit topology it is not possible for the NB to provide effective
blanking to the P3 with the noise gate *after* the IF pick-off point.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-08-15 5:13 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 8/15/2014 11:29 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>> Jim, that information is incorrect. The K3 NB can not possibly have
>> any impact on the P3 or P3SVGA as the IF pick-off is at the output
>> of the first mixer - *before* any noise blanker gate.
>
> Joe,
>
> I've never studied the schematic or signal flow in the regard, but I
> often study the screen of my P3, which DOES show reduction of noise when
> the wider NB is active. 2-4 dB is typical for the types of noise for
> which it is effective.
>
> I appreciate the alert to the existence of the P3 NB. I last updated
> firmware about six months ago, and it was not in that version. It does,
> indeed, work pretty well.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

KV5J

Re: P3SVGA

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Since his last release for F/W upgrade to the P3SVGA card was on February 27th, 2013 we should be careful holding our breath on the next release. hihi

Keith

k5oai

Re: P3SVGA

In reply to this post by Tim Herrick

With the exception of figuring out how to deal the 'web cam' or 'capture
card' needed to view the P3, I have been seriously considering Win4K3.

Unfortunately now that I know the 'Mothership' is resistant to working
with Tom, I will wait until I hear that has changed before I take the leap.

Sorry Tom, please let us know if that changes. :-(

--
GB & 73
K5OAI
Sam Morgan

On 8/15/2014 4:03 PM, KQ8M wrote:
> I agree with Gerald. I have used Win4K3 in place of the HRD rig control software. It not only works much much better but also has
> shared con ports for other software to also control the K Line. Plus he responds to any problem with a much more professional
> attitude than others do.
>
> 73,
> Tim Herrick, KQ8M
> [hidden email]
snip

> On Friday, August 15, 2014 2:45 PM, KC6CNN wrote:
> I use Tom ' s software. It is stable and controls the elecraft line like no other. There are a few issues that he has told us about
> and did say elecraft was notified and later I recheck and he did not hear back from them.
> This software should be on the elecraft site. It controls the K-Line as well as the KX3 and has a terminal window.
>
> I hope this issue gets resolved as the Win4k3suite is outstanding.
>
> Hoping for a fast solution
> Gerald - KC6CNN

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Jim Brown-10

Re: P3SVGA

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Joe,

I don't want to be confrontational and I greatly value your engineering
mind, but I'm quite certain that the wide K3 NB DOES affect the P3
display. I work a lot of JT65 on 6M, and there are several strong
signals (not of overload magnitude) near me. The NB DOES create
artifacts that result in multiple decodes, and corresponding stuff that
is quite visible in the P3 display, and that is not visible when the K3
NB is off.

73, Jim K9YC

On Fri,8/15/2014 2:35 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
>> I often study the screen of my P3, which DOES show reduction of noise
>> when the wider NB is active. 2-4 dB is typical for the types of noise
>> for which it is effective.
>
> 2 - 4 dB may be due to upsetting the impedance at the IF feed but given
> the circuit topology it is not possible for the NB to provide effective
> blanking to the P3 with the noise gate *after* the IF pick-off point.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2014-08-15 5:13 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On 8/15/2014 11:29 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>> Jim, that information is incorrect. The K3 NB can not possibly have
>>> any impact on the P3 or P3SVGA as the IF pick-off is at the output
>>> of the first mixer - *before* any noise blanker gate.
>>
>> Joe,
>>
>> I've never studied the schematic or signal flow in the regard, but I
>> often study the screen of my P3, which DOES show reduction of noise when
>> the wider NB is active. 2-4 dB is typical for the types of noise for
>> which it is effective.
>>
>> I appreciate the alert to the existence of the P3 NB. I last updated
>> firmware about six months ago, and it was not in that version. It does,
>> indeed, work pretty well.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: P3SVGA

Jim,

with the pick-off point clearly *before* the noise gate, the NB can
not possibly provide any *blanking* to the P3. There may certainly
be artifacts due to changes in the impedance (loading) seen by the
P3, but that is a *big difference* from real banking.

Please study the schematics before you claim the hardware blanker
*works* for the P3.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-08-18 2:54 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> Joe,
>
> I don't want to be confrontational and I greatly value your engineering
> mind, but I'm quite certain that the wide K3 NB DOES affect the P3
> display. I work a lot of JT65 on 6M, and there are several strong
> signals (not of overload magnitude) near me. The NB DOES create
> artifacts that result in multiple decodes, and corresponding stuff that
> is quite visible in the P3 display, and that is not visible when the K3
> NB is off.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On Fri,8/15/2014 2:35 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>
>>> I often study the screen of my P3, which DOES show reduction of noise
>>> when the wider NB is active. 2-4 dB is typical for the types of noise
>>> for which it is effective.
>>
>> 2 - 4 dB may be due to upsetting the impedance at the IF feed but given
>> the circuit topology it is not possible for the NB to provide effective
>> blanking to the P3 with the noise gate *after* the IF pick-off point.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 2014-08-15 5:13 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> On 8/15/2014 11:29 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>>> Jim, that information is incorrect. The K3 NB can not possibly have
>>>> any impact on the P3 or P3SVGA as the IF pick-off is at the output
>>>> of the first mixer - *before* any noise blanker gate.
>>>
>>> Joe,
>>>
>>> I've never studied the schematic or signal flow in the regard, but I
>>> often study the screen of my P3, which DOES show reduction of noise when
>>> the wider NB is active. 2-4 dB is typical for the types of noise for
>>> which it is effective.
>>>
>>> I appreciate the alert to the existence of the P3 NB. I last updated
>>> firmware about six months ago, and it was not in that version. It does,
>>> indeed, work pretty well.
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>

wayne burdick

Re: P3SVGA

Administrator

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

"You're both right," he mused, studying his own schematic (and inexplicably referring to himself in the third person).

The KNB3 *is* downstream of the pick-off point for the P3. But in the presence of very strong signals and with the KNB3 set to a long gate time, some of the gating artifacts could in theory back-propagate to the pick-off point, affecting the P3. Normally this effect would be highly suppressed because of the low impedance of the driving stage (the mixer post-amp).

Wayne
N6KR

On Aug 17, 2014, at 11:54 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Joe,
>
> I don't want to be confrontational and I greatly value your engineering mind, but I'm quite certain that the wide K3 NB DOES affect the P3 display. I work a lot of JT65 on 6M, and there are several strong signals (not of overload magnitude) near me. The NB DOES create artifacts that result in multiple decodes, and corresponding stuff that is quite visible in the P3 display, and that is not visible when the K3 NB is off.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On Fri,8/15/2014 2:35 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>
>>> I often study the screen of my P3, which DOES show reduction of noise
>>> when the wider NB is active. 2-4 dB is typical for the types of noise
>>> for which it is effective.
>>
>> 2 - 4 dB may be due to upsetting the impedance at the IF feed but given
>> the circuit topology it is not possible for the NB to provide effective
>> blanking to the P3 with the noise gate *after* the IF pick-off point.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 2014-08-15 5:13 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> On 8/15/2014 11:29 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>>> Jim, that information is incorrect. The K3 NB can not possibly have
>>>> any impact on the P3 or P3SVGA as the IF pick-off is at the output
>>>> of the first mixer - *before* any noise blanker gate.
>>>
>>> Joe,
>>>
>>> I've never studied the schematic or signal flow in the regard, but I
>>> often study the screen of my P3, which DOES show reduction of noise when
>>> the wider NB is active. 2-4 dB is typical for the types of noise for
>>> which it is effective.
>>>
>>> I appreciate the alert to the existence of the P3 NB. I last updated
>>> firmware about six months ago, and it was not in that version. It does,
>>> indeed, work pretty well.
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC