PACTOR iii
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>"Your using Pactor to email family and friends. Unless your family and friends are all amateurs, communicating with them was at one time not allowed.
Really? When? Since the beginning of time Amateur Radio has been used for third party traffic [in the US]. Ever hear of Heath & Welfare messages after a disaster? radiograms? Just _what_ was the Amateur Radio _Relay_ League was relaying back in the teens and twenties? Excerpt from from the book '200 Meters and Down' by Clinton B. De Soto, 1936: ~~~ In 1914, Hiram Percy Maxim of Hartford, Connecticut, was a prominent businessman, engineer, and inventor (notably of the Maxim Silencer). He was also an active radio amateur, with one of the best-equipped stations in the Hartford area. One night in April he attempted to send a message to another ham in Springfield, Massachusetts. He had a one-kilowatt station (call 1WH), and Springfield was only 30 miles away, well within his normal range. He was unable to make contact, and remembering that he knew another ham in Windsor Locks, about halfway, he contacted the Windsor Locks ham, and asked him to relay the message, which was successfully done. This was not the first time a message had been relayed, but it set Maxim to thinking. At that time, a great deal, perhaps most of amateur radio activity consisted of sending and receiving messages, not only between amateurs, but involving the general public as well. But at that time the maximum reliable range of a station was a few hundred miles or less, and so Maxim realized that a formally organized relay system would be of tremendous use to amateurs. ~~~~ Mark AD5SS On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 9:37 PM, Scott Manthe <[hidden email]> wrote: > Well, some of the irritation is brought about something you mention > casually: Your using Pactor to email family and friends. Unless your > family and friends are all amateurs, communicating with them was at one > time not allowed. Amateurs were not allowed to communicate with > non-amateurs, no matter the mode, excepting for autopatches and phone > patches. None of these operations was automatic, and a licensed amateur > was always in control of the transmission. This is not the case with the > Pactor autobots. > > Secondly, and this just my opinion, there is a maritime radio service, > so why don't you sailors use that to email your family and friends and > transmit logs and get weather information? Since vessels have a > dedicated radio service to do everything needed, why pollute the amateur > bands with maritime communications? There is absolutely no need to use > the amateur bands for this, especially the autoforwarding stuff. No way > to justify this, except that sailors have a lot of money and influence > in both Newington and D.C. > > 73, > Scott, N9AA > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: PACTOR iii [Thread closed]
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Thread closed.
Folks, in the interest of reducing list overload we are making a new addition to the official Elecraft list guidelines. Once there have been more than 2-3 postings on an Amateur Radio policy topic like this (what's legal, what is, or is not, 'ham radio', no code pro/con etc.) the thread is officially closed. Period. In general, please do not post radio policy or political comments to the Elecraft list. There are plenty of other forums that can accommodate these charged topics. 73, Eric Elecraft List Moderator www.elecraft.com _..._ On Apr 30, 2012, at 5:57 AM, Mark Bayern <[hidden email]> wrote: >> "Your using Pactor to email family and friends. Unless your family and friends are all amateurs, communicating with them was at one time not allowed. > > Really? When? Since the beginning of time Amateur Radio has been used > for third party traffic [in the US]. Ever hear of Heath & Welfare > messages after a disaster? radiograms? Just _what_ was the Amateur > Radio _Relay_ League was relaying back in the teens and twenties? > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Mark Bayern
International third party traffic is illegal unless the US has a specific agreement with the country involved. Secondly, third party traffic is limited to *non-commercial* messages "of the type that would not be transmitted by commercial means." Navigation data, weather charts, supply orders, reservations, arrival schedules, etc. - including "telegrams" to family and friends - are all traffic that would normally be carried via commercial marine circuits (just ask any old time ship's Radio Officer). 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 4/30/2012 8:57 AM, Mark Bayern wrote: >> "Your using Pactor to email family and friends. Unless your family and friends are all amateurs, communicating with them was at one time not allowed. > > Really? When? Since the beginning of time Amateur Radio has been used > for third party traffic [in the US]. Ever hear of Heath& Welfare > messages after a disaster? radiograms? Just _what_ was the Amateur > Radio _Relay_ League was relaying back in the teens and twenties? > > > Excerpt from from the book '200 Meters and Down' by Clinton B. De Soto, 1936: > > ~~~ > > In 1914, Hiram Percy Maxim of Hartford, Connecticut, was a prominent > businessman, engineer, and inventor (notably of the Maxim Silencer). > He was also an active radio amateur, with one of the best-equipped > stations in the Hartford area. One night in April he attempted to send > a message to another ham in Springfield, Massachusetts. He had a > one-kilowatt station (call 1WH), and Springfield was only 30 miles > away, well within his normal range. He was unable to make contact, and > remembering that he knew another ham in Windsor Locks, about halfway, > he contacted the Windsor Locks ham, and asked him to relay the > message, which was successfully done. This was not the first time a > message had been relayed, but it set Maxim to thinking. At that time, > a great deal, perhaps most of amateur radio activity consisted of > sending and receiving messages, not only between amateurs, but > involving the general public as well. But at that time the maximum > reliable range of a station was a few hundred miles or less, and so > Maxim realized that a formally organized relay system would be of > tremendous use to amateurs. > > ~~~~ > > > Mark AD5SS > > > > > On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 9:37 PM, Scott Manthe<[hidden email]> wrote: >> Well, some of the irritation is brought about something you mention >> casually: Your using Pactor to email family and friends. Unless your >> family and friends are all amateurs, communicating with them was at one >> time not allowed. Amateurs were not allowed to communicate with >> non-amateurs, no matter the mode, excepting for autopatches and phone >> patches. None of these operations was automatic, and a licensed amateur >> was always in control of the transmission. This is not the case with the >> Pactor autobots. >> >> Secondly, and this just my opinion, there is a maritime radio service, >> so why don't you sailors use that to email your family and friends and >> transmit logs and get weather information? Since vessels have a >> dedicated radio service to do everything needed, why pollute the amateur >> bands with maritime communications? There is absolutely no need to use >> the amateur bands for this, especially the autoforwarding stuff. No way >> to justify this, except that sailors have a lot of money and influence >> in both Newington and D.C. >> >> 73, >> Scott, N9AA >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Kevin Stover
I haven't read the new part 97 yet, but by the old rules, it seems to me
that internet access via amateur radio, unless there is only selective websites available, would be illegal, UNLESS it is an emergency! If someone can afford an ocean going vessel, sail or powered, can surely afford a marine communications setup and conduct his business via commercial public correspondence stations. INMARSAT has a service that requires minimum equipment and may by now, have internet hook up available. ( I have been out of the marine communication business now for almost 20 years, so I don't know if it is or isn't available) As a master of any vessel, recreational or otherwise, I would be derelict in my duty not to have communications equipment available to assure the safety of my crew, friends and other passengers on my vessel. AGAIN emergency communications is OK, but NOT routine communications regarding weather, navigation, etc.. My 2 penny's worth on this subject. 73, Sandy W5TVW -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 7:43 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PACTOR iii Amen! There are a lot of Yachtsmen/women who got their license for one reason and one reason alone. To keep from paying for the Sail Mail subscription. it amounts to $250/yr or about $21/month uses marine frequencies and marine type accepted equipment and the ubiquitous/infamous SCS Pactor III modem. On 04/29/2012 07:19 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >> However that said, Pactor III is a godsend for us hams that are >> cruising on our boats....here in the south pacific, I can send/rec >> email, and get all kinds of weather charts/info to make my sailing >> safer. Pactor III may not be for you, but it is for me > And commercial or quasi-commercial traffic should be conducted on > commercial frequencies not on top of amateur users whenever the damn > PACTOR-bots decide to start transmitting. > > As one of the twelve who were on the ARRL committee that formulated > the automatic and semi-automatic control concepts nearly 30 years ago, > allowing *any* form of automatic control is one of the biggest mistakes > in nearly 100 years of amateur radio - right up with phone patches in > the amateur service. > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV -- R. Kevin Stover AC0H ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4967 - Release Date: 04/29/12 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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All,
The WINLINK network has been up for years. It has served both the boaters and emergency/disaster communicators. The FCC does allow this type of communications as it is considered non commercial. There does not seem to be anything driving the FCC to overturn their past decision on this issue. So, all of you boaters, campers, etc, who want to use WINLINK for free vice SAILMAIL for some cost, go for it.. 73, Barry K3NDM On 4/30/2012 1:45 PM, Sandy wrote: > I haven't read the new part 97 yet, but by the old rules, it seems to me > that internet access via amateur radio, unless there is only selective > websites available, would be illegal, UNLESS it is an emergency! > > If someone can afford an ocean going vessel, sail or powered, can surely > afford a marine communications setup and conduct his business via commercial > public correspondence stations. INMARSAT has a service that requires > minimum equipment and may by now, have internet hook up available. ( I > have been out of the marine communication business now for almost 20 years, > so I don't know if it is or isn't available) As a master of any vessel, > recreational or otherwise, I would be derelict in my duty not to have > communications equipment available to assure the safety of my crew, friends > and other passengers on my vessel. AGAIN emergency communications is OK, > but NOT routine communications regarding weather, navigation, etc.. > > > My 2 penny's worth on this subject. > > 73, > > Sandy W5TVW > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 7:43 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PACTOR iii > > Amen! > > There are a lot of Yachtsmen/women who got their license for one reason > and one reason alone. To keep from paying for the Sail Mail > subscription. it amounts to $250/yr or about $21/month uses marine > frequencies and marine type accepted equipment and the > ubiquitous/infamous SCS Pactor III modem. > > On 04/29/2012 07:19 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>> However that said, Pactor III is a godsend for us hams that are >>> cruising on our boats....here in the south pacific, I can send/rec >>> email, and get all kinds of weather charts/info to make my sailing >>> safer. Pactor III may not be for you, but it is for me >> And commercial or quasi-commercial traffic should be conducted on >> commercial frequencies not on top of amateur users whenever the damn >> PACTOR-bots decide to start transmitting. >> >> As one of the twelve who were on the ARRL committee that formulated >> the automatic and semi-automatic control concepts nearly 30 years ago, >> allowing *any* form of automatic control is one of the biggest mistakes >> in nearly 100 years of amateur radio - right up with phone patches in >> the amateur service. >> >> 73, >> >> ... Joe, W4TV Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Folks - this thread was officially ended earlier this morning. Please,
no more postings on this topic. Eric Elecraft List moderator --- www.elecraft.com On 4/30/2012 1:44 PM, Barry LaZar wrote: > All, > The WINLINK network has been up for years. It has served both the > boaters and emergency/disaster communicators. The FCC does allow this > type of communications as it is considered non commercial. There does > not seem to be anything driving the FCC to overturn their past decision > on this issue. So, all of you boaters, campers, etc, who want to use > WINLINK for free vice SAILMAIL for some cost, go for it.. > > 73, > Barry > K3NDM > > On 4/30/2012 1:45 PM, Sandy wrote: >> I haven't read the new part 97 yet, but by the old rules, it seems to me >> that internet access via amateur radio, unless there is only selective >> websites available, would be illegal, UNLESS it is an emergency! >> >> If someone can afford an ocean going vessel, sail or powered, can surely >> afford a marine communications setup and conduct his business via commercial >> public correspondence stations. INMARSAT has a service that requires >> minimum equipment and may by now, have internet hook up available. ( I >> have been out of the marine communication business now for almost 20 years, >> so I don't know if it is or isn't available) As a master of any vessel, >> recreational or otherwise, I would be derelict in my duty not to have >> communications equipment available to assure the safety of my crew, friends >> and other passengers on my vessel. AGAIN emergency communications is OK, >> but NOT routine communications regarding weather, navigation, etc.. >> >> >> My 2 penny's worth on this subject. >> >> 73, >> >> Sandy W5TVW >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kevin >> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 7:43 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PACTOR iii >> >> Amen! >> >> There are a lot of Yachtsmen/women who got their license for one reason >> and one reason alone. To keep from paying for the Sail Mail >> subscription. it amounts to $250/yr or about $21/month uses marine >> frequencies and marine type accepted equipment and the >> ubiquitous/infamous SCS Pactor III modem. >> >> On 04/29/2012 07:19 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>>> However that said, Pactor III is a godsend for us hams that are >>>> cruising on our boats....here in the south pacific, I can send/rec >>>> email, and get all kinds of weather charts/info to make my sailing >>>> safer. Pactor III may not be for you, but it is for me >>> And commercial or quasi-commercial traffic should be conducted on >>> commercial frequencies not on top of amateur users whenever the damn >>> PACTOR-bots decide to start transmitting. >>> >>> As one of the twelve who were on the ARRL committee that formulated >>> the automatic and semi-automatic control concepts nearly 30 years ago, >>> allowing *any* form of automatic control is one of the biggest mistakes >>> in nearly 100 years of amateur radio - right up with phone patches in >>> the amateur service. >>> >>> 73, >>> >>> ... Joe, W4TV > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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