PRO II vs K2

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PRO II vs K2

Brett Gazdzinski
I would say the K2 is better than the pro2, not quite as good as the pro3.
The pro 3 was improved quite a bit, the noise reduction really works well,
as do the filters, its not as bothered by close in signals as the older
units,
and its got less noise, but still quite a bit compared to the corsair I
have.

The functionality of the pro3 is VERY good, triple band stacking registers,
just push the 80 meter button three times and go through 3 different
settings,
cw, ssb and am, the rig remembers all the settings, which antenna,
and tunes it, the filters, frequencies, etc, and it does that for every
band.
Another thing I really like about the pro3 is tuning in an ssb qso, very
often
the frequency is spot on, like within 1 cycle! I find that the other
stations are also
right on frequency, no guesswork...

Another thing I was surprised about was the auto notch.
It will follow a signal around and notch it out, and an ssb qso
is 100%, and does not even sound bad!
Does the K3 do that?

AM reception is quite good, although the high end rolls off
early no matter what filter you use.
I never tried it on FM.
The K2 is ham band only, the pro series does general coverage and 6 meters,
and gives 100 watts out on all bands and frequencies ,and does 160 meters.
On CW, changing the pitch is turning a knob, it does everything, and is its
own knob,
in the K2, changing the pitch requires redoing all the filters....

With the band scope, the pro3 is a lot for the money.
It does have the usual 70mhz 1st IF problems, but much less then
the older ones, and the usual noise and poor audio output, but that is
also much better than the old ones.

You cant build an Icom though....

Brett
N2DTS




The pro 3 is now about $2500.00 new.


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Re: PRO II vs K2

KK7P
> Another thing I was surprised about was the auto notch.
> It will follow a signal around and notch it out, and an ssb qso
> is 100%, and does not even sound bad!
> Does the K3 do that?

Yes, and so does the K2 w/KDSP2!

73,

Lyle KK7P

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Re: PRO II vs K2

Jim K4ZMV
In reply to this post by Brett Gazdzinski
For more than twice the price, the Pro III should be a little better than a
K2.  But which K2; every K2 is a little different depending on the skills of
the builder.  I'll take my K2 over a PRO III, maybe even a 7800.  The K3 is
still less expansive than the PRO III, too.

73, Jim K4ZMV, K2 #5731


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Gazdzinski" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 9:18 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] PRO II vs K2


>I would say the K2 is better than the pro2, not quite as good as the pro3.
> The pro 3 was improved quite a bit, the noise reduction really works well,
> as do the filters, its not as bothered by close in signals as the older
> units,
> and its got less noise, but still quite a bit compared to the corsair I
> have.
>
> The functionality of the pro3 is VERY good, triple band stacking
> registers,
> just push the 80 meter button three times and go through 3 different
> settings,
> cw, ssb and am, the rig remembers all the settings, which antenna,
> and tunes it, the filters, frequencies, etc, and it does that for every
> band.
> Another thing I really like about the pro3 is tuning in an ssb qso, very
> often
> the frequency is spot on, like within 1 cycle! I find that the other
> stations are also
> right on frequency, no guesswork...
>
> Another thing I was surprised about was the auto notch.
> It will follow a signal around and notch it out, and an ssb qso
> is 100%, and does not even sound bad!
> Does the K3 do that?
>
> AM reception is quite good, although the high end rolls off
> early no matter what filter you use.
> I never tried it on FM.
> The K2 is ham band only, the pro series does general coverage and 6
> meters,
> and gives 100 watts out on all bands and frequencies ,and does 160 meters.
> On CW, changing the pitch is turning a knob, it does everything, and is
> its own knob,
> in the K2, changing the pitch requires redoing all the filters....
>
> With the band scope, the pro3 is a lot for the money.
> It does have the usual 70mhz 1st IF problems, but much less then
> the older ones, and the usual noise and poor audio output, but that is
> also much better than the old ones.
>
> You cant build an Icom though....
>
> Brett
> N2DTS
>
>
>
>
> The pro 3 is now about $2500.00 new.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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Re: PRO II vs K2

Gary D Krause
In reply to this post by Brett Gazdzinski
Another thing that should be mentioned is that the Pro 3 is four times the
cost of a K2.  So, it stands to reason that it should do something a little
better than the K2, at least four times better.  Does it?

If I were an owner of a high end transciever costing thousands of dollars, I
would be a little disappointed after seeing the figures that have just been
published on the K3.  Even the K2 is up there near the top.  We can all spend
thousands of dollars chasing technology and it never ends.  There will always
be something bigger and better.

Gary, N7HTS
K2 #6113


On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:18:47 -0400
  "Brett Gazdzinski" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would say the K2 is better than the pro2, not quite as good as the pro3.
> The pro 3 was improved quite a bit, the noise reduction really works well,
> as do the filters, its not as bothered by close in signals as the older
>units,
> and its got less noise, but still quite a bit compared to the corsair I
>have.
>
> The functionality of the pro3 is VERY good, triple band stacking registers,
> just push the 80 meter button three times and go through 3 different
>settings,
> cw, ssb and am, the rig remembers all the settings, which antenna,
> and tunes it, the filters, frequencies, etc, and it does that for every
>band.
> Another thing I really like about the pro3 is tuning in an ssb qso, very
>often
> the frequency is spot on, like within 1 cycle! I find that the other
>stations are also
> right on frequency, no guesswork...
>
> Another thing I was surprised about was the auto notch.
> It will follow a signal around and notch it out, and an ssb qso
> is 100%, and does not even sound bad!
> Does the K3 do that?
>
> AM reception is quite good, although the high end rolls off
> early no matter what filter you use.
> I never tried it on FM.
> The K2 is ham band only, the pro series does general coverage and 6 meters,
> and gives 100 watts out on all bands and frequencies ,and does 160 meters.
> On CW, changing the pitch is turning a knob, it does everything, and is its
>own knob,
> in the K2, changing the pitch requires redoing all the filters....
>
> With the band scope, the pro3 is a lot for the money.
> It does have the usual 70mhz 1st IF problems, but much less then
> the older ones, and the usual noise and poor audio output, but that is
> also much better than the old ones.
>
> You cant build an Icom though....
>
> Brett
> N2DTS
>
>
>
>
> The pro 3 is now about $2500.00 new.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
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Re: PRO II vs K2

Doug Person
Four times?? A K2 with enough options to make it comparable to an
IC-756ProIII is $1861.00.  The current best price on the IC-756ProIII is
2695.00 - that's not even twice, its only 30% more. Considering the the
time invested in building one - the K2 is not even close to an
economical radio. The 756ProIII represents one aspect of state of the
art that is unmatched by anything else on the market of comparable
price. Its receiver isn't going to perform like a K3 or even a K2. But
it isn't a bad receiver either and ranks among the best for mainstream
middle-priced transceivers. And when it comes to ergonomics, the ProIII
wins hands down over anything I've used.

Gary D Krause wrote:

> Another thing that should be mentioned is that the Pro 3 is four times
> the cost of a K2.  So, it stands to reason that it should do something
> a little better than the K2, at least four times better.  Does it?
>
> If I were an owner of a high end transciever costing thousands of
> dollars, I would be a little disappointed after seeing the figures
> that have just been published on the K3.  Even the K2 is up there near
> the top.  We can all spend thousands of dollars chasing technology and
> it never ends.  There will always be something bigger and better.
>
> Gary, N7HTS
> K2 #6113
>
>
> On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:18:47 -0400
>  "Brett Gazdzinski" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I would say the K2 is better than the pro2, not quite as good as the
>> pro3.
>> The pro 3 was improved quite a bit, the noise reduction really works
>> well,
>> as do the filters, its not as bothered by close in signals as the
>> older units,
>> and its got less noise, but still quite a bit compared to the corsair
>> I have.
>>
>> The functionality of the pro3 is VERY good, triple band stacking
>> registers,
>> just push the 80 meter button three times and go through 3 different
>> settings,
>> cw, ssb and am, the rig remembers all the settings, which antenna,
>> and tunes it, the filters, frequencies, etc, and it does that for
>> every band.
>> Another thing I really like about the pro3 is tuning in an ssb qso,
>> very often
>> the frequency is spot on, like within 1 cycle! I find that the other
>> stations are also
>> right on frequency, no guesswork...
>>
>> Another thing I was surprised about was the auto notch.
>> It will follow a signal around and notch it out, and an ssb qso
>> is 100%, and does not even sound bad!
>> Does the K3 do that?
>>
>> AM reception is quite good, although the high end rolls off
>> early no matter what filter you use.
>> I never tried it on FM.
>> The K2 is ham band only, the pro series does general coverage and 6
>> meters,
>> and gives 100 watts out on all bands and frequencies ,and does 160
>> meters.
>> On CW, changing the pitch is turning a knob, it does everything, and
>> is its own knob,
>> in the K2, changing the pitch requires redoing all the filters....
>>
>> With the band scope, the pro3 is a lot for the money.
>> It does have the usual 70mhz 1st IF problems, but much less then
>> the older ones, and the usual noise and poor audio output, but that is
>> also much better than the old ones.
>>
>> You cant build an Icom though....
>>
>> Brett
>> N2DTS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The pro 3 is now about $2500.00 new.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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Re: PRO II vs K2

Gary D Krause
That's true but, I wasn't considering a fully loaded K2, just the base model
which is the one that I have.  I don't think any of the rigs on the market
right now are bad rigs, it just depends on what you are going to do with them.
 For me, just about anything would do for the kind of operating I do.  As far
as time invested in building a K2, I don't look at it as an investment at all.
 At least not in dollars and cents.  I did it mostly for the experience and it
was well worth it to me.

I would love to operate an IC-756ProIII just to see what it's like.  I'm sure
it is a fantastic rig and I'm certainly not trying to put it down.  I would
also like to operate a K3.  In fact, I'm in the market now for a new rig and
have been reading as much as I can and really appreciate this comparison.

Thanks,
Gary, N7HTS


On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:15:16 -0600
  Doug Person <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Four times?? A K2 with enough options to make it comparable to an
>IC-756ProIII is $1861.00.  The current best price on the IC-756ProIII is
>2695.00 - that's not even twice, its only 30% more. Considering the the time
>invested in building one - the K2 is not even close to an economical radio.
>The 756ProIII represents one aspect of state of the art that is unmatched by
>anything else on the market of comparable price. Its receiver isn't going to
>perform like a K3 or even a K2. But it isn't a bad receiver either and ranks
>among the best for mainstream middle-priced transceivers. And when it comes
>to ergonomics, the ProIII wins hands down over anything I've used.
>
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Re: PRO II vs K2

Bill W4ZV
In reply to this post by Brett Gazdzinski

Brett Gazdzinski wrote
I would say the K2 is better than the pro2, not quite as good as the pro3.
The pro 3 was improved quite a bit, the noise reduction really works well,
as do the filters, its not as bothered by close in signals as the older
units,
and its got less noise, but still quite a bit compared to the corsair I
have.
In fact, there is ZERO difference in close-in signal handling between the Pro2 and Pro3 as measured by Sherwood.  Given measurement uncertainty and sample variation of a few dB, it would be difficult to have two rigs be any closer in the measurements Sherwood has listed below.  For the key metrics of IMD, BDR, MDS and phase noise, they are identical rigs in performance.  This should not surprise anyone because there was no significant change in the front end design from the Pro2 to the Pro3.

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html  (scroll to 75 dB IMD)

73,  Bill  W4ZV
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PRO II vs K2

Brett Gazdzinski
In reply to this post by Doug Person
I got a new pro 3 at HRO for $2500.00 no tax and no shipping.
The pro2 is going for about $1500.00 or less, the K2 would be
over $1700.00 I think.
Different radios though, the K2 is a field day rig, the Icom
is a boat anchor power hog, with lots of great features.

Brett
N2DTS
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Re: PRO II vs K2

ac0h
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

This isn't aimed at Brett.

When I built my K2/100 2 years ago I spent right at $1800. This included
EVERY module made for the rig except the 60m/transverter and noise
blanker. It also included a KAT100-1. Including the "cost" of ones time
in the price of a kit is ridiculous.

Yes, the Pro III has the pretty band scope and a bunch of "features".
Anybody who's really honest about it would admit they use 25% of those
"features" on a daily basis and probably don't know what the other 75%
really do or how to use them. But hey, they're in the rig. Ridiculous!

There seems to be two trains of thought when it it comes to rig design.
Lot of pretty lights, lots of wee small knobs and buttons, "That rig
sure does LOOK like it's worth the price", versus competent simplicity.
In the case of the K3 more than just competent.

There is no argument that the K2's receiver is better than the ProII/III
So, we have a rig which costs 40% less than a ProIII with better
performance, sans the pretty lights (I wonder how we got by without them
for 75 years), and it gets talked about like it's a sows ear instead of
a silk purse?

Come on.

Brett Gazdzinski wrote:
| I got a new pro 3 at HRO for $2500.00 no tax and no shipping.
| The pro2 is going for about $1500.00 or less, the K2 would be
| over $1700.00 I think.
| Different radios though, the K2 is a field day rig, the Icom
| is a boat anchor power hog, with lots of great features.
|
| Brett
| N2DTS


- --
R. Kevin Stover, ACØH
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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hQD5Fb/ZwRz+ChD3F7akvPc=
=8YCb
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Re: PRO II vs K2

Brett Gazdzinski
Some of the 'features' I like are the cw pitch knob, the button for each
band,
with triple stacking registers, the pass band tuning knobs (like the K3
has),
and I like the analog meter.
The scope is very handy, I like it.

The K2 is better with close strong signals, and if I was back packing, I
would rather have
the K2!
But as a rig that stays in the shack, I would rather have the pro3 over the
K2
for every day use.

I got my pro3 for $2500.00 new, they go for about $2200.00 used,
a pro2 (I never had one of those) is about $1500.00.

If one compares price, you have to order every option on the K2,
the only option on the pro3 is the voice recorder I think.

In my book, they trade off low noise and distortion for convenience
on these new rigs, you get very stable accurate easy frequency control,
with whatever tuning speed you want, at the expense of digital hash
and distortion.

Brett
N2DTS





----- Original Message -----
From: "R. Kevin Stover" <[hidden email]>
To: "Brett Gazdzinski" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PRO II vs K2


> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> This isn't aimed at Brett.
>
> When I built my K2/100 2 years ago I spent right at $1800. This included
> EVERY module made for the rig except the 60m/transverter and noise
> blanker. It also included a KAT100-1. Including the "cost" of ones time
> in the price of a kit is ridiculous.
>
> Yes, the Pro III has the pretty band scope and a bunch of "features".
> Anybody who's really honest about it would admit they use 25% of those
> "features" on a daily basis and probably don't know what the other 75%
> really do or how to use them. But hey, they're in the rig. Ridiculous!
>
> There seems to be two trains of thought when it it comes to rig design.
> Lot of pretty lights, lots of wee small knobs and buttons, "That rig
> sure does LOOK like it's worth the price", versus competent simplicity.
> In the case of the K3 more than just competent.
>
> There is no argument that the K2's receiver is better than the ProII/III
> So, we have a rig which costs 40% less than a ProIII with better
> performance, sans the pretty lights (I wonder how we got by without them
> for 75 years), and it gets talked about like it's a sows ear instead of
> a silk purse?
>
> Come on.
>
> Brett Gazdzinski wrote:
> | I got a new pro 3 at HRO for $2500.00 no tax and no shipping.
> | The pro2 is going for about $1500.00 or less, the K2 would be
> | over $1700.00 I think.
> | Different radios though, the K2 is a field day rig, the Icom
> | is a boat anchor power hog, with lots of great features.
> |
> | Brett
> | N2DTS
>
>
> - --
> R. Kevin Stover, ACØH
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFH2nol11jxjloa2wsRAlssAKDTJSYA5uWNZjoQqqCNx+LQv/R8nACffUBo
> hQD5Fb/ZwRz+ChD3F7akvPc=
> =8YCb
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: PRO II vs K2

dave.wilburn
In reply to this post by Brett Gazdzinski
Using a ProIII as a stand for a K2

Original contributor
http://www.nabble.com/K2-at-N8S-to14075537.html#a14075537

http://www.ur0mc.com/ru/big_photo.php?id=292
Text in Russian says, "The winner of the 'The best top-band
transceiver' competition on it's expensive stand".


Dave Wilburn
K4DGW
K2/100 - S/N 5982

"For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will
never know."


Brett Gazdzinski wrote:

> I would say the K2 is better than the pro2, not quite as good as the pro3.
> The pro 3 was improved quite a bit, the noise reduction really works well,
> as do the filters, its not as bothered by close in signals as the older
> units,
> and its got less noise, but still quite a bit compared to the corsair I
> have.
>
> The functionality of the pro3 is VERY good, triple band stacking registers,
> just push the 80 meter button three times and go through 3 different
> settings,
> cw, ssb and am, the rig remembers all the settings, which antenna,
> and tunes it, the filters, frequencies, etc, and it does that for every
> band.
> Another thing I really like about the pro3 is tuning in an ssb qso, very
> often
> the frequency is spot on, like within 1 cycle! I find that the other
> stations are also
> right on frequency, no guesswork...
>
> Another thing I was surprised about was the auto notch.
> It will follow a signal around and notch it out, and an ssb qso
> is 100%, and does not even sound bad!
> Does the K3 do that?
>
> AM reception is quite good, although the high end rolls off
> early no matter what filter you use.
> I never tried it on FM.
> The K2 is ham band only, the pro series does general coverage and 6 meters,
> and gives 100 watts out on all bands and frequencies ,and does 160 meters.
> On CW, changing the pitch is turning a knob, it does everything, and is
> its own knob,
> in the K2, changing the pitch requires redoing all the filters....
>
> With the band scope, the pro3 is a lot for the money.
> It does have the usual 70mhz 1st IF problems, but much less then
> the older ones, and the usual noise and poor audio output, but that is
> also much better than the old ones.
>
> You cant build an Icom though....
>
> Brett
> N2DTS
>
>
>
>
> The pro 3 is now about $2500.00 new.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
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Re: PRO II vs K2

dave.wilburn
In reply to this post by Brett Gazdzinski
Lots of great points brought up here.  The K2 is not all things to all
people, it is a focused rig.  You bring up the point about the CW
pitch.  That is an annoyance at times.  But it is like the band pass
and filter adjustments.  The bad news is that you have to do them.
The good news, is that you get to do them, and within reason, you can
set them up how you choose.

That is one of the things I liked about the rig when I chose it.  I
was looking for a rig that did CW better than the others, and had
impressive filters that I could adjust to my tastes.


Dave Wilburn
K4DGW
K2/100 - S/N 5982

"For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will
never know."


Brett Gazdzinski wrote:

> Some of the 'features' I like are the cw pitch knob, the button for each
> band,
> with triple stacking registers, the pass band tuning knobs (like the K3
> has),
> and I like the analog meter.
> The scope is very handy, I like it.
>
> The K2 is better with close strong signals, and if I was back packing, I
> would rather have
> the K2!
> But as a rig that stays in the shack, I would rather have the pro3 over
> the K2
> for every day use.
>
> I got my pro3 for $2500.00 new, they go for about $2200.00 used,
> a pro2 (I never had one of those) is about $1500.00.
>
> If one compares price, you have to order every option on the K2,
> the only option on the pro3 is the voice recorder I think.
>
> In my book, they trade off low noise and distortion for convenience
> on these new rigs, you get very stable accurate easy frequency control,
> with whatever tuning speed you want, at the expense of digital hash
> and distortion.
>
> Brett
> N2DTS
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. Kevin Stover" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Brett Gazdzinski" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PRO II vs K2
>
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> This isn't aimed at Brett.
>>
>> When I built my K2/100 2 years ago I spent right at $1800. This included
>> EVERY module made for the rig except the 60m/transverter and noise
>> blanker. It also included a KAT100-1. Including the "cost" of ones time
>> in the price of a kit is ridiculous.
>>
>> Yes, the Pro III has the pretty band scope and a bunch of "features".
>> Anybody who's really honest about it would admit they use 25% of those
>> "features" on a daily basis and probably don't know what the other 75%
>> really do or how to use them. But hey, they're in the rig. Ridiculous!
>>
>> There seems to be two trains of thought when it it comes to rig design.
>> Lot of pretty lights, lots of wee small knobs and buttons, "That rig
>> sure does LOOK like it's worth the price", versus competent simplicity.
>> In the case of the K3 more than just competent.
>>
>> There is no argument that the K2's receiver is better than the ProII/III
>> So, we have a rig which costs 40% less than a ProIII with better
>> performance, sans the pretty lights (I wonder how we got by without them
>> for 75 years), and it gets talked about like it's a sows ear instead of
>> a silk purse?
>>
>> Come on.
>>
>> Brett Gazdzinski wrote:
>> | I got a new pro 3 at HRO for $2500.00 no tax and no shipping.
>> | The pro2 is going for about $1500.00 or less, the K2 would be
>> | over $1700.00 I think.
>> | Different radios though, the K2 is a field day rig, the Icom
>> | is a boat anchor power hog, with lots of great features.
>> |
>> | Brett
>> | N2DTS
>>
>>
>> - --
>> R. Kevin Stover, ACØH
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>>
>> iD8DBQFH2nol11jxjloa2wsRAlssAKDTJSYA5uWNZjoQqqCNx+LQv/R8nACffUBo
>> hQD5Fb/ZwRz+ChD3F7akvPc=
>> =8YCb
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>
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