Price Comparison and Comment

[Bill W4ZV]

K0WA wrote:
 > I am sure many of you have done this already....but it is
interesting to me....and I thought I would share
 >
 >   1.  FTDX9000 Contest              $5699 (no extras)
 >   2.  Orion II                               $4395
 >   3.  K3                                     $3436 (Includes 5 filters)
 >   4.  FT2000D                            $3399
 >   5  Omni VII                             $3050 (with two filters)
 >   6  IC756PROIII                        $2999
 >
 >   No coupons were added or any reduction of price for this small
study of price.
 >
 >   As I see if, you just save $330 from putting it
together.  HMMMMM.  That kind of makes he happy and sad.  I had the
fun of building the K2...but that doesn't seem worth it to build a
K3.  Of course, I could be (and usually am) wrong in my thinking here.

         Be careful with comparisons like this!  It
depends very much on your K3 configuration, and it also
depends on how you value issues like the quality of the
Sub Receiver, etc.  The beauty of the K3 is that it can
be configured very economically depending on what your
needs are.  Elecraft has cleverly configured the K3 to
allow it to appeal to many different users:

1.  Budget minded DXers who need an exceptional RX.
Include the basic K3, no ATU, KXV3 (for RX antenna
input) plus 500 Hz filter equals $2149.  CW filter
depends on IMD/BDR measurements but most likely
the 500 Hz 5-pole will be entirely sufficient
based on my experience with Orion.  Build one
yourself for $1907.

2.  Budget minded contesters who need 2 for SO2R.
Twice the above for $4298 assembled or $3814 kitted.

3.  Those who need truly high performance Sub RX
for diversity or for use in very crowded conditions.
K3 + Sub RX + KXV3 + two 500 Hz filters for $2825
assembled or $2525 kitted.  IMHO this combination
cannot be duplicated by any of the above rigs due
to the quality of both K3 receivers (pending actual
IMD/BDR measurements of course).

4.  Those who want a truly high performance
panadapter/bandscope using the K3's IF output to
an outboard SDR (e.g. Softrock 40, Clifton Laboratories
Z90/91 Panadapter, etc.)  This gets tricky to price
but it's nowhere near the $10k range of a full
blown IC-7800 or FTDX9000.

         I'm not a fan of ATUs but you can add it
to the above if necessary.  Thank you Elecraft
and Ten-Tec for not forcing me to pay for an ATU
if I don't feel I need it (ditto for the 20 and
6 kHz filters I never use in my Orion).

         I simply wanted to offer a counterpoint view
to the pricing listed above.  I'm sure many others
would do things differently but I believe Elecraft
has been very clever in allowing us to configure
exactly what we need...and nothing more.

                                 73,  Bill  W4ZV

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Bill,

You are right.  After thinking on this for more than 10 minutes....I came to the same conclusion.  A K3 can be had for 1800 dollars in modular kit form...with just 100 watts and no bells and whistles.  The 2.7 roofing filter comes with the unit, so you would have a workable unit after building it.

So, the price comparison I put out last weekend was...well...wrong!  Wrong on so many levels.

I did not understand roofing filters at time and considered them IF Filters.  I was informed by very nice people that not all five filters would be needed.  So, that was a bogus assumption on my part.

Also, I looked at the price from a full blown perspective.  What I like about Elecraft is that you can put in the pieces when you can afford them.  Not like other companies who do not offer that kind of flexibility.

So...sorry about the poor email

Lee Buller
"Making a mistake is not a problem...not learning from mistakes is a big problem.  This is assuming the problem is not life or death"


 

In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense.  Is Common Sense devine?
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[N8LP]

Good chart, Bill. I especially agree with some of your footnote
statements. Being a casual DXer and contest dabbler, I ordered a K3/100
with just the KXV3. I ordered the modular kit because I wanted to
experience the new kit methodology, and become familiar with the boards
and architecture in case I need to do future maintenance. I think a
couple evenings of time spent with the manual will be well worth it.

I purposely did not make a deposit, so that my unit would fall in the
second run. I did this in case there are any hardware revisions after
the first run. I should be early in run 2, and I thought that if I
waited for feedback from the 1st run guys before ordering, I wouldn't
get it until 2008 ;-)

I also purposely didn't order any extra filters, as I suspect that the
variable roofing filters will be out before my order is ready, and I may
want to consider them for added flexibility (at least for CW). I totally
agree about internal ATUs... don't like them for a number of reasons. I
have one I home-brewed that I like anyway. I also don't need a second
receiver at the moment. K3 allows me to have world class performance at
a bargain basement price (relatively speaking), with only the features I
need, but gives me expandability in case I need more options down the road.

Oh, and since I already own a Z90 panadapter, I'm covered on that front.

73,
Larry N8LP



Bill Tippett wrote:

> K0WA wrote:
> > I am sure many of you have done this already....but it is
> interesting to me....and I thought I would share
> >
> >   1.  FTDX9000 Contest              $5699 (no extras)
> >   2.  Orion II                               $4395
> >   3.  K3                                     $3436 (Includes 5 filters)
> >   4.  FT2000D                            $3399
> >   5  Omni VII                             $3050 (with two filters)
> >   6  IC756PROIII                        $2999
> >
> >   No coupons were added or any reduction of price for this small
> study of price.
> >
> >   As I see if, you just save $330 from putting it together.  
> HMMMMM.  That kind of makes he happy and sad.  I had the fun of
> building the K2...but that doesn't seem worth it to build a K3.  Of
> course, I could be (and usually am) wrong in my thinking here.
>
>         Be careful with comparisons like this!  It
> depends very much on your K3 configuration, and it also
> depends on how you value issues like the quality of the
> Sub Receiver, etc.  The beauty of the K3 is that it can
> be configured very economically depending on what your
> needs are.  Elecraft has cleverly configured the K3 to
> allow it to appeal to many different users:
>
> 1.  Budget minded DXers who need an exceptional RX.
> Include the basic K3, no ATU, KXV3 (for RX antenna
> input) plus 500 Hz filter equals $2149.  CW filter
> depends on IMD/BDR measurements but most likely
> the 500 Hz 5-pole will be entirely sufficient
> based on my experience with Orion.  Build one
> yourself for $1907.
>
> 2.  Budget minded contesters who need 2 for SO2R.
> Twice the above for $4298 assembled or $3814 kitted.
>
> 3.  Those who need truly high performance Sub RX
> for diversity or for use in very crowded conditions.
> K3 + Sub RX + KXV3 + two 500 Hz filters for $2825
> assembled or $2525 kitted.  IMHO this combination
> cannot be duplicated by any of the above rigs due
> to the quality of both K3 receivers (pending actual
> IMD/BDR measurements of course).
>
> 4.  Those who want a truly high performance
> panadapter/bandscope using the K3's IF output to
> an outboard SDR (e.g. Softrock 40, Clifton Laboratories
> Z90/91 Panadapter, etc.)  This gets tricky to price
> but it's nowhere near the $10k range of a full
> blown IC-7800 or FTDX9000.
>
>         I'm not a fan of ATUs but you can add it
> to the above if necessary.  Thank you Elecraft
> and Ten-Tec for not forcing me to pay for an ATU
> if I don't feel I need it (ditto for the 20 and
> 6 kHz filters I never use in my Orion).
>
>         I simply wanted to offer a counterpoint view
> to the pricing listed above.  I'm sure many others
> would do things differently but I believe Elecraft
> has been very clever in allowing us to configure
> exactly what we need...and nothing more.
>
>                                 73,  Bill  W4ZV
>
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>
>

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[Brett gazdzinski-2]

 
I ordered just the 10 watt kit and a 6Khz filter,
which will allow me to play a lot before I get the 100
watt amp and the atu.

I don't contest or DX, so its nice to not have to get
a lot of filters, and a 2nd receiver.

I do want the band scope though!

The soft entry makes it a bit better than having to
plunk down a truck load of cash....

Brett
N2DTS

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lee Buller
> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 11:07 AM
> To: Bill Tippett; Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Price Comparison and Comment
>
> Bill,
>
> You are right.  After thinking on this for more than 10
> minutes....I came to the same conclusion.  A K3 can be had
> for 1800 dollars in modular kit form...with just 100 watts
> and no bells and whistles.  The 2.7 roofing filter comes with
> the unit, so you would have a workable unit after building it.
>
> So, the price comparison I put out last weekend
> was...well...wrong!  Wrong on so many levels.
>
> I did not understand roofing filters at time and considered
> them IF Filters.  I was informed by very nice people that not
> all five filters would be needed.  So, that was a bogus
> assumption on my part.
>
> Also, I looked at the price from a full blown perspective.  
> What I like about Elecraft is that you can put in the pieces
> when you can afford them.  Not like other companies who do
> not offer that kind of flexibility.
>
> So...sorry about the poor email
>
> Lee Buller
> "Making a mistake is not a problem...not learning from
> mistakes is a big problem.  This is assuming the problem is
> not life or death"
>

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[srife]

Well then, I have finally got to know the skinny on this ceiling filter (er roofing) issue and I am totally confused (still). I thought I had a handle on it (order them all), but now someone says that we DON'T need them all. How do you know which ones you do need? And I have seen someone say that one (or all) of them will be tuneable. Can some (again please) lay this out in laymens terms for the ignorant, non savy (ME) of us.
   
   
   
  Stan Rife
  W5EWA
  Houston, TX
  K2 S/N 4216
 

Lee Buller <[hidden email]> wrote:
  Bill,

You are right. After thinking on this for more than 10 minutes....I came to the same conclusion. A K3 can be had for 1800 dollars in modular kit form...with just 100 watts and no bells and whistles. The 2.7 roofing filter comes with the unit, so you would have a workable unit after building it.

So, the price comparison I put out last weekend was...well...wrong! Wrong on so many levels.

I did not understand roofing filters at time and considered them IF Filters. I was informed by very nice people that not all five filters would be needed. So, that was a bogus assumption on my part.

Also, I looked at the price from a full blown perspective. What I like about Elecraft is that you can put in the pieces when you can afford them. Not like other companies who do not offer that kind of flexibility.

So...sorry about the poor email

Lee Buller
"Making a mistake is not a problem...not learning from mistakes is a big problem. This is assuming the problem is not life or death"




In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense devine?
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