Pwr<>Antenna
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> All this talk about 800W amps is interesting, however, due to oil prices
> the power company here has had to shove up the price per kWh to about 27c > US. I'll stick with more and better high level aluminium which sucks as > well as blows. Less potential TVI too. Sometines it's really nice to have both! John K5MO _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I may be missing something but I had 2 homebrew amps running 813s, another
one running 4-572B's by Dentron and recently since 1997 had a Ameritron AL80B till 2004. I sold all amps because I am satisfied with 100 watts from the Icom 706 and my QRP rigs. BUT, my point is I never noticed any increase in my utility bills! Paul Gates Elecraft K1 #231 XG1 [hidden email] "An idle mind is the devil's workshop." And the devil's name is Alzheimer's! ----- Original Message ----- From: <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 10:22 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Pwr<>Antenna > > All this talk about 800W amps is interesting, however, due to oil prices > > the power company here has had to shove up the price per kWh to about > > 27c > > US. I'll stick with more and better high level aluminium which sucks as > > well as blows. Less potential TVI too. > > Sometines it's really nice to have both! > > John K5MO > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Paul wrote:
I may be missing something but I had 2 homebrew amps running 813s, another one running 4-572B's by Dentron and recently since 1997 had a Ameritron AL80B till 2004. I sold all amps because I am satisfied with 100 watts from the Icom 706 and my QRP rigs. BUT, my point is I never noticed any increase in my utility bills! ----------------------- The "big current" drain only happens when the key is down or on instantaneous voice peaks. Hopefully, no one puts a brick on their key at a kilowatt output! Electric rates vary widely around the country too. Here our little local Utility charges a bit under 3 cents/kilowatt hour (our power comes from the Columbia River hydroelectric dams) and other places have quoted over 20 cents/kilowatt hour. It's tempting to run a kilowatt to a poor antenna in an attempted to "get out" better, but keep in mind that short antennas, such as one tends to have in cramped quarters, produce HUGE RF voltages, even at low power levels. Back in the 1950's some famous (or infamous) mobilers experimented with kilowatt mobile rigs. Keep in mind this was in the days of vacuum tubes. Such setups often used several generators attached to the automobile engine and a whole back seat area of the car filled with equipment (and the stories of stalling the engine by hitting the transmit button were true!). One of their frequent problems was that a huge corona discharge would often leap off of the tip of the antenna, producing huge distortion on the signal. You would never want to see that inside of an apartment or your attic! Another issue is the electromagnetic field itself. There are valid concerns with the effects on human health of strong electromagnetic fields, including the possibility of causing cancer. The ARRL has a lot of good data on this subject and it's covered in all recent ARRL Handbooks. In any case, the fields produced by QRO operation with indoor/temporary antennas are likely to cause very serious problems with all other appliances including lights, radios, televisions (even battery powered portables), microwaves, computers - you name it. At QRO levels, if a device runs off of electricity it's likely to be severely affected by a nearby antenna! Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Paul Gates
Paul Gates wrote:
> I may be missing something but I had 2 homebrew amps running 813s, another > one running 4-572B's by Dentron and recently since 1997 had a Ameritron > AL80B till 2004. I sold all amps because I am satisfied with 100 watts from > the Icom 706 and my QRP rigs. BUT, my point is I never noticed any increase > in my utility bills! I sent the following in response to the original mention of power costs, but forgot to forward it to the list: EricJ wrote: > My electric bill came today and it worked out to 11.7 cents/kwh. Let's say you have a 1.5KW amplifier. Overall efficiency might be 50%, so it draws 3KW key down. Now let's say you operate 2 hours a day, 5 days a week. During that time, you QSO 50% of the time. During a QSO, you transmit 50% of the time and listen 50% of the time. You use CW, so your duty cycle is 50%. This will cost you 3KW * 10h * 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5 = 3.75KWH, or, at the specified rate, about 48 cents a week, or $25 a year if you always use the amplifier and don't take a vacation. SSB will be cheaper. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Vic Rosenthal wrote:
> Now let's say you operate 2 hours a day, 5 > days a week. During that time, you QSO 50% of the time. During a QSO, > you transmit 50% of the time and listen 50% of the time. You use CW, so > your duty cycle is 50%. This will cost you 3KW * 10h * 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5 > = 3.75KWH, or, at the specified rate, about 48 cents a week, or $25 a > year if you always use the amplifier and don't take a vacation. SSB will > be cheaper. Oops, I forgot a factor: 3KW * 10h * 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5 = 24 cents a week! -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Vic K2VCO
Quoting K2VCO:
>Let's say you have a 1.5KW amplifier. Overall efficiency might be 50%, so it >draws 3KW key down. What does it draw key-up? >Now let's say you operate 2 hours a day, 5 days a week. During that time, you >QSO 50% of the time. During a QSO, you transmit 50% of the time and listen >50% of the time. You use CW, so your duty cycle is 50%. This will cost you >3KW * 10h * 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5 = 3.75KWH, or, at the specified rate, about 48 >cents a week, or $25 a year if you always use the amplifier and don't take a >vacation. Actually a bit more. If the amplifier draws, say, 250 W key up (to keep the heaters hot, fans turning, and B+ caps charged) then you have an additional 8.75 hours x .25 = about 2.2 kWH. So the weekly total is really more like 70 cents a week. Of course in most cases merely leaving a few lights on a few hours each day will use more kWH in the course of a year. >SSB will be cheaper. How do you figure? The duty cycles are about the same. SSB may even have a higher duty cycle if you turn the processor on. btw, the duty cycle of CW is about 44%: Consider the standard word "PARIS". With all the spaces, it's 50 time units long. But the key is down only 22 of those times. 73 de Jim, N2EY _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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[hidden email] wrote:
> Quoting K2VCO: >> Let's say you have a 1.5KW amplifier. Overall efficiency might be >> 50%, so it >draws 3KW key down. > What does it draw key-up? Not so much, if it's instant-on, solid state with temperature-controlled fans like the KPA800. But you are correct for a 'traditional' tube amplifier. Especially one that isn't instant-on and tends to be left on for long periods. >> SSB will be cheaper. > > How do you figure? The duty cycles are about the same. SSB may even > have a higher duty cycle if you turn the processor on. I was assuming a duty cycle of 33% for SSB. Yes, I did not take heavy processing into account! But I think that without processing the duty cycle for ssb is definitely lower than CW. > btw, the duty cycle of CW is about 44%: Consider the standard word > "PARIS". With all the spaces, it's 50 time units long. But the key is > down only 22 of those times. Also most operators use long spaces between sentences. I assumed 50% as a worst case. And don't forget that I left out one of the 50%'s from my calculation! -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Vic K2VCO
----- Original Message ----- > Let's say you have a 1.5KW amplifier. Overall efficiency might be 50%, > so it draws 3KW key down. Now let's say you operate 2 hours a day, 5 days > a week. During that time, you QSO 50% of the time. During a QSO, you > transmit 50% of the time and listen 50% of the time. You use CW, so your > duty cycle is 50%. This will cost you 3KW * 10h * 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5 = > 3.75KWH, or, at the specified rate, about 48 cents a week, or $25 a year > if you always use the amplifier and don't take a vacation. SSB will be > cheaper. > > -- > 73, > Vic, K2VCO > Fresno CA SO........ :-) This meen some of us can afford to talk higher and longer???? I suggest that everyone that buys a KPA800/1500 found a club together. The " FOR A HANDFIST OF DOLLARS" DXCLUB. We pay!!! YOU better listen..... I think I could like that club. hehe. CQCQCQ this is LA1PHA/KPA800 come! Everyone please! Well just a tought :-) If Santa is good to me next year I would love to have a KPA800 warming my feets during DX. 73 de Tom LA1PHA / LI1PHA _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Ron D'Eau Claire-2
50 watts from a Harvey-Wells TBS50 Bandmaster to a Webster Band Spanner
in a 1953 Plymouth powered by a PE-103 dynamotor caused enough corona on 10m for me that on a dark night parked at the observatory in Griffith Park, I attracted the attention of several cops with "flames" leaping from my antenna. First and only time since I've been approached by a cop with his gun drawn. Fred K6DGW Auburn CA CM98lw Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > One of their frequent problems was that a huge corona discharge > would often leap off of the tip of the antenna, producing huge > distortion on the signal. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Fred... Back in the 60s I used 2 hustler ant. on the rear of the car or
station wagon as the case might be .... to a Drake TR4 On a trip to Fla from Tenn. I secured a florescent tube vertically to the 2 antennas. I did not get stopped by the police at night whenever I talked they lit up! Paul Gates Elecraft K1 #231 XG1 [hidden email] "An idle mind is the devil's workshop." And the devil's name is Alzheimer's! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Jensen" <[hidden email]> To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Pwr<>Antenna > 50 watts from a Harvey-Wells TBS50 Bandmaster to a Webster Band Spanner > in a 1953 Plymouth powered by a PE-103 dynamotor caused enough corona on > 10m for me that on a dark night parked at the observatory in Griffith > Park, I attracted the attention of several cops with "flames" leaping > from my antenna. First and only time since I've been approached by a > cop with his gun drawn. > > Fred K6DGW > Auburn CA CM98lw > > > Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > > One of their frequent problems was that a huge corona discharge > > would often leap off of the tip of the antenna, producing huge > > distortion on the signal. > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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