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Question about the K2

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Eric Champine

Question about the K2

Hi all.
Just a few days ago I just realized you could build the K2 as a complete QRP
setup and then add the KAT100-2/KPA100 in the EC2 custom enclosure to make
it a QRO rig.
Wow. Very cool. I was thinking about building a K2-100 and a K2 so I would
have a rig for both occasions. Now I find out that I can have just one K2
setup to do both if I am reading this correctly. LOL. I always wanted to
know why people would want to put the KAT100 in a large case. Now I know
why. What my question is, is it OK to have the internal QRP tuner in at the
same time that I have it hooked up to the KAT100-2/KPA100 or does the
internal tuner have to be taken out to use the KAT100-2/KPA100 add-on?
This is really going to be a very cool setup for me because I love to go out
on weekends and do QRP work and during the weekdays work traffic nets where
I need more power most of the time. This seems the best of both worlds to me
and now I only have to build one K2 and save a lot of cash.
It's funny. I have been watching this reflector for a while now and it isn't
till now that I just found out that this was an option.
Does anyone have any experience with this setup and how they like it or have
any suggestions?
Thanks for your time.

73 de W2EEC

Eric
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Andrew Moore-3

Re: Question about the K2

> What my question is, is it OK to have the internal QRP tuner in at the
same time that I have it hooked up to the KAT100-2/KPA100 or does the
internal tuner have to be taken out to use the KAT100-2/KPA100 add-on?

Yes, it's okay to keep it there. When using the QRO tuner (in the remote
case), just put the QRP tuner (KAT2) into "bypass" mode.

--Andrew, NV1B
..
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Question about the K2

In reply to this post by Eric Champine

Eric,

That setup works quite well. I had it set up here until I got the K3
and sold the KPA100/KAT100 combo - I will keep my K2 until it is pried
from my cold dead hands, it is a Field Test model SN 00020.

When the K2 detects that the KPA100 is installed, it forces the KAT2 to
"bypass" and ANT1 output. They work quite well together.

Don't forget that your KAT100 must be the KAT100-2. It has all the
"hooks" required to plug in the KPA100 cables. The AUX I/O
communications cable is the same as that shown for the KAT100 and can
plug into either the KAT100 or the KPA100.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/28/2011 4:51 PM, Eric Champine wrote:

> Hi all.
> Just a few days ago I just realized you could build the K2 as a complete QRP
> setup and then add the KAT100-2/KPA100 in the EC2 custom enclosure to make
> it a QRO rig.
> Wow. Very cool. I was thinking about building a K2-100 and a K2 so I would
> have a rig for both occasions. Now I find out that I can have just one K2
> setup to do both if I am reading this correctly. LOL. I always wanted to
> know why people would want to put the KAT100 in a large case. Now I know
> why. What my question is, is it OK to have the internal QRP tuner in at the
> same time that I have it hooked up to the KAT100-2/KPA100 or does the
> internal tuner have to be taken out to use the KAT100-2/KPA100 add-on?
> This is really going to be a very cool setup for me because I love to go out
> on weekends and do QRP work and during the weekdays work traffic nets where
> I need more power most of the time. This seems the best of both worlds to me
> and now I only have to build one K2 and save a lot of cash.
> It's funny. I have been watching this reflector for a while now and it isn't
> till now that I just found out that this was an option.
> Does anyone have any experience with this setup and how they like it or have
> any suggestions?
> Thanks for your time.
>
> 73 de W2EEC
>
> Eric
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Question about the K2

In reply to this post by Andrew Moore-3

Andrew,

Not even that complicated - the firmware does that automatically (and
selects ANT1) when the presence of the KPA100 is detected. No effort on
the part of the user is required.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/28/2011 4:58 PM, Andrew Moore wrote:
>> What my question is, is it OK to have the internal QRP tuner in at the
> same time that I have it hooked up to the KAT100-2/KPA100 or does the
> internal tuner have to be taken out to use the KAT100-2/KPA100 add-on?
>
> Yes, it's okay to keep it there. When using the QRO tuner (in the remote
> case), just put the QRP tuner (KAT2) into "bypass" mode.
>
> --Andrew, NV1B
>
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Andrew Moore-3

Re: Question about the K2

NV1B>> When using the QRO tuner (in the remote case), just put the QRP tuner
(KAT2) into "bypass" mode.

W3FPR> Not even that complicated - the firmware does that automatically (and
selects ANT1) when the presence of the KPA100 is detected. No effort on the
part of the user is required.

Even better. I should have known Elecraft would have an Ele-gant solution.
Kudos to the team.

--Andrew, NV1B
..
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Phillip Lontz

Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Lightning question:

I have driven an 8 foot copper clad rod just out side my operating station. Its about 6 feet from the rod to my desk.
I have attached a solid copper wire (1/4" thick) to the ground post (with a ground rod clamp) The wire goes thru the wall and is bonded to a copper pipe that is 1-1/8" wide that is just under the desk.

So on to my question:
What is the BEST way to connect my equipment (k3, SB-200 and a remote coax switch) to the copper pipe?

Coax braid from RG8 or solid copper wire? and why....

Thank You guys...

Phil
Santa Fe

soon to be a xx5SSR...
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Phil LaMarche-2

Re: Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.

Phil,

I drove a copper pipe into the ground outside my shack and then put a 4 inch
copper strap to the pipe and brought it through the wall and sealed it off.
Then put a bolt and nut with large washers on the inside. Each piece of
equipment has the same length braded material that goes to the nut and bolt.
Then outside, I took a number 4 wire and ran it from the pipe to the house
ground next to the mains coming in. Along the way I added additional ground
rods. I also took this wire to my tower which has 6 ground rods connected
to it. I've had two strikes on my 70 ft tower and no damage inside. Heavy
enough to take out the traps of my Mosley PRO 67B but no equipment.

Phil

Philip LaMarche

LaMarche Enterprises, Inc
[hidden email]
www.LaMarcheEnterprises.com

727-944-3226
727-937-8834 Fax
727-510-5038 Cell

www.w9dvm.com

K3 #1605

CCA 98-00827
CRA 1701
W9DVM

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil Townsend
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 5:36 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.

Lightning question:

I have driven an 8 foot copper clad rod just outside my operating station.
It's about 6 feet from the rod to my desk.
I have attached a solid copper wire (1/4" thick) to the ground post (with a
ground rod clamp) The wire goes thru the wall and is bonded to a copper pipe
that is 1-1/8" wide that is just under the desk.

So on to my question:
What is the BEST way to connect my equipment (k3, SB-200 and a remote coax
switch) to the copper pipe?

Coax braid from RG8 or solid copper wire? and why....

Thank You guys...

Phil
Santa Fe

soon to be a xx5SSR...
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Jim Wiley-2

Re: Question about the K2

In reply to this post by Eric Champine

Eric

I have my K2 set up this way. The "base" K2 has the internal tuner,
battery pack, SSB, NB, and so on, including the KIO2 and the 160 meter
option. This is my "go bucket" version for emergency and portable use.

Then, for QRO use, I have the KPA100 and KAT100 in a separate EC2 case.
I do not have to remove any of the base K2 options to use the amplifier
- it just plugs in. 3 cables - RF, control I/O, and power - everything
takes care of itself from that point.

The only caveat is that when running high power you have to make sure
that power is applied to both the K2 and the KPA100 before turning the
rig on with the front panel switch - otherwise, the K2 will not detect
the presence of the amplifier, and will not switch from one to the other
as needed.

When the the two units are interconnected, the K2 tuner (KAT2) is
disabled automatically, and returns to service when the 2 boxes are
separated.

When I built the KPA100/KAT100/EC2 combo I decided not to install the
speaker and wiring in the KPA100 - I left it in the base K2.

- Jim, KL7CC

Eric Champine wrote:

Eric Champine

Re: Question about the K2

In reply to this post by Andrew Moore-3

Wow.
Thanks Don and Andrew.
I am really glad that I found this all out before I purchase anymore stuff.
This is going to save me a lot of money that I can use for other toys :-)
You know. I really liked the K2 before but now it rocks even more with the
new capabilities that I didn't know about before.
Wow. SN# 00020. Like a Timex watch.... It keeps on ticking....... :-)
This is why I like Elecraft so much.
This is my second rig I am building. My first was the K1 and I use it often.

73 de W2EEC

Eric

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Andrew Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:

> NV1B>> When using the QRO tuner (in the remote case), just put the QRP
> tuner (KAT2) into "bypass" mode.
>
> W3FPR> Not even that complicated - the firmware does that automatically
> (and selects ANT1) when the presence of the KPA100 is detected. No effort
> on the part of the user is required.
>
> Even better. I should have known Elecraft would have an Ele-gant solution.
> Kudos to the team.
>
> --Andrew, NV1B
> ..
>
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.

In reply to this post by Phillip Lontz

Phil,

Before you do anything else, get enough #6 or #4 bare copper wire to
connect that new ground rod to the Utility Entry Ground for your house.
The wire should be buried to keep it out of the way of mowers, etc., but
the connection is more important than where the wire runs.

First, it is required by National Electric Code, and 2nd because it is
dangerous without it. Should you have a ground fault in your house
wiring, everything connected to that isolated ground rod can carry the
ground current - touching anything within the area that is connected to
the house wiring, but not to the ground rod at the same time as touching
those items which are connected to the ground rod can cause
electrocution. I would bet you were not planning to ground the desk
lamp to your new ground rod - so run that ground rod to ground rod
connecting wire for your safety and your family and pets.

Now back to your original question - I would use stranded #14 or #12
wire because it is sufficiently flexible and easily managed. Solid
copper wire will break if flexed (by moving equipment around on the
desk), and braid from RG-8 is a bit messy to deal with. Use ring tongue
terminals on each end of the wire (crimp if you have the correct tool,
solder if you do not). Yes, ring tongue terminals require that you put
the ground screw through the terminal hole, but do provide a better
connection than other terminals with an open end that allow connection
without putting the screw through the hole. To attach to your copper
pipe "buss bar", drill it with a small diameter drill (1/8 inch) and use
self-tapping metal screws (#6 or #8) The connections should be tight.
I prefer solid copper bar over a pipe because I can use a stainless
steel screw with internal toothed lockwasher and a nut to maintain
tightness. Normal plated hardware can react with copper and the
connection can fail with time and corrosion - use stainless steel to
minimize that reaction.

Still, that is not sufficient protection for lightning - it will bleed
off static charges from distant lightning surges, but make sure your
antenna system has a DC path across the coax, and use surge protection
devices (PolyPhaser or other) on your coax. In addition, I would advise
using an antenna switch in the shack to switch between the coax runs to
the shack, and put a dummy load on one of the selections - switch to the
dummy load when the transceiver is not in use. And make a DC path
across the coax to the transceiver/amplifier at the switch. A 100 uHy
choke of sufficient current capacity for your maximum power will do, or
alternately a 5k to 10k resistor (I would suggest 5 or 10 watts for your
SB-200 power level). If you do not want to open your antenna switch and
add it to the coax going to the transceiver/amplifier, then mount the
resistor (or choke) in a PL-259 from center conductor to the shell and
use a UHF Tee Adapter at the input of your antenna switch - the coax to
the transceiver/amplifier connects to one side ot the TEE and the PL-259
with the resistor or choke connects to the other side - the 3rd (male)
end of the TEE goes to the antenna switch input connector.

All in all, simple grounding is not simple, other measures must be
employed in lightning prone areas. But your first step is to connect
that isolated ground rod to the Utility entrance ground - that is a
personnel safety issue and is much more important than protection for
your equipment.

Much more information about lightning protection is available at the
PolyPhaser website.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/28/2011 5:35 PM, Phil Townsend wrote:

> Lightning question:
>
> I have driven an 8 foot copper clad rod just out side my operating station. Its about 6 feet from the rod to my desk.
> I have attached a solid copper wire (1/4" thick) to the ground post (with a ground rod clamp) The wire goes thru the wall and is bonded to a copper pipe that is 1-1/8" wide that is just under the desk.
>
> So on to my question:
> What is the BEST way to connect my equipment (k3, SB-200 and a remote coax switch) to the copper pipe?
>
> Coax braid from RG8 or solid copper wire? and why....
>
>
> Thank You guys...
>
> Phil
> Santa Fe
>
> soon to be a xx5SSR...
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Question about the K2

In reply to this post by Jim Wiley-2

Jim,

That caveat is not required. The K2 will detect the KPA100 when it is
powered on. If there is no power to the KPA100 you will see the message
"NO PA POWER". But if power is later applied to the KPA100, it will
come on-line and provide full power output. This switching is
automatic, and available for those operating with the KPA100 mounted
either on the base K2 or externally.

In other words, the K2 with the KPA100 is designed so if you operate the
KPA100 with a power supply running on the AC mains, and power the base
K2 from a battery, should the mains power go out during a QSO, the
KPA100 will drop out and the base K2 will still be powered from the
battery, enabling the QSO to continue even with the lower power out of
the base K2. There is a test sequence in the KPA100 manual to verify
this power switching mechanism.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/28/2011 6:07 PM, Jim Wiley wrote:
> The only caveat is that when running high power you have to make sure
> that power is applied to both the K2 and the KPA100 before turning the
> rig on with the front panel switch - otherwise, the K2 will not detect
> the presence of the amplifier, and will not switch from one to the other
> as needed.
>
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Bob Naumann W5OV

Re: Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Don,

I often see this warning and I have some questions.

You said:

> First, it is required by National Electric Code, and 2nd because it is
> dangerous without it. Should you have a ground fault in your house
> wiring,

Please define a "ground fault" as you are using the term here.

> everything connected to that isolated ground rod can carry the
> ground current - touching anything within the area that is connected to
> the house wiring, but not to the ground rod at the same time as touching
> those items which are connected to the ground rod can cause
> electrocution.

How would everything in your home suddenly become hot?

Thanks,

Bob

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Byron Servies

Re: Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.

Hi Bob,

One of the things that has been difficult for me to understand since
becoming a ham is the difference between micro electronics and (for
lack of a better term) macro electronics. When the leads are 0.25"
thick and feet long, the potential difference at the ends of a wire is
significant, and if there is more than 1 wire the varying impedances
can cause currents where you don't think there should be any.

Because of this, what I used to understand as a single "ground" (e.g.
a layer on a PC board) is really 4 separate things in a ham shack. The
ground is all electrically a single circuit, and all drain current,
but because they have human-scale sizes, different currents will take
different paths due to the differing impedances from source to drain
in the circuit. So while your house ground and your ground rod may
both be buried in the ground, they may have significant differences in
potential.

This difference is how everything in your house can suddenly become
"hot". They are hot because, relative to the different ground
potentials, there is a voltage change. The grounds also both have
huge current carrying capacity, which can kill you.

An excellent description of these different grounds is found in the
2010 ARRL Handbook:

begin quote

28.1.8 Grounds

As hams we are concerned with at least four kinds of things called
"ground," even if they really aren't ground in the sense of connection
to the Earth. These are easily confused because we call each of them
"ground."
1) Electrical safety ground (bonding)
2) RF return (antenna ground)
3) Common reference potential (chassis ground)
4) Lightning and transient dissipation ground

IEEE Std 1100-2005 (also known as the "Emerald Book," see the
Reference listing, section 28.1.13) provides detailed information from
a theoretical and practical standpoint for grounding and powering
electrical equipment, including lightning protection and RF EMI/EMC
concerns. It's expensive to buy but is available through libraries.

end quote.

The National Electric Code requires that all ground circuits be bonded
together at the service panel entrance to prevent electrocution.
Inside the house, the "green wire" is used by ground fault protection
circuit. Your ground rod with it's short connection to your shack will
provide a lower impedance path for RF return and common reference
potential for your equipment (and help keep stray RF currents out of
the rest of the house). Lightning ... well, mother nature is one
tough cookie.

Again, the ARRL Handbook has excellent information on grounding and
shack safety in general. I have also been studying Jim K9YC's papers
on RFI, which includes extensive information on the many strange ways
RF currents can get to where we do not want them.

http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf

I'm sure someone will correct any egregious errors I have made above,
but I hope I got the salient point across: all your ground circuits
must be bonded to the service entrance panel or you risk serious
injury.

73, Byron N6NUL
----
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011
- www.cqp.org
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AC7AC

Re: Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

k6dgw

Re: Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.

In reply to this post by Phillip Lontz

Grounding and lightning protection is not a simple subject Phil. Here's
what I would recommend:

If your home is wired to NEC standards, the neutral [center-tap on the
pole pig] will be tied to the safety ground [green wire in your outlets]
and earth at the service entrance ... only. This means that the "green
wire" in each outlet snakes back to the service entrance before
encountering a "real" ground. It thus makes a useless RF ground and
lightning is RF [see below].

A. You *must* tie your ground rod back to the ground at the entrance
panel. NEC requires it and if it isn't so tied, it can create a real
safety hazard if you should encounter a ground fault. Make it as short
as possible, buried is best, but if short means run under the house,
that's OK. Use #14 copper or larger.

B. AC is excluded from the inside of a conductor by the magnetic field
it creates, and flows near the surface [skin] effect]. The higher the
frequency, the closer to the surface it is. The conductors on one of
the original 230 KV lines from Hoover Dam to Los Angeles are hollow for
that reason.

C. Lightning currents are mainly RF, and flow only on the very surface
of the conductor and you want a lot of surface area, volume contributes
almost nothing. So, wide copper strap is good. Large gauge stranded
copper wire is less effective but better than solid wire. For the fire
lookouts on peaks here in the Sierra Nevada, they use 3/8" - 1/2"
stranded wire running around the roof, catwalks, and tower legs, bonded
to everything including an extensive ground system.

D. Surviving a direct hit to your tower or antenna is problematical at
best. Even if you disconnect and ground your antenna [and rotator]
cables, the induced currents will create high peak potentials to your
equipment [and everything else in the house]. You can't stop that from
happening, and your radio chassis can momentarily rise to very high
potentials.The grounding goal for your equipment is to "keep it all
together." The radio chassis can experience a peak pulse, but if
everything else also gets that same pulse, the differential potential
between them is very low, and little current will flow. The way you do
this is to bring your ground strap into the shack, and using the
shortest wiring you can, ground *each* piece of equipment *separately*
to the same point on the strap.

E. A grounded entrance panel for your coax and rotator cables is very
good, use Polyphasers or similar to bring the cables through. They
won't survive a direct hit, but in that case, that's the least of your
worries, your house may be on fire by then. :-( They will clamp off
induced pulses however and limit potential excursions on your equipment.

F. Unless your home is on stilts over salt water [unlikely in NM :-) ]
I'd guess that your ground rod is probably pretty high impedance for any
currents generated by lightning. At the TV station I worked at in
college [500' tower on a 1,300' ridge], the ground system ran all
around the building with a bunch of ground rods, and included things
like the tower, the fridge, plumbing, the 3 1/8" hard-line exterior,
even the gate on the road, and the steel trench covers inside, They
still made a deafening "clang" when we took a nearby strike. Hams do
install systems like that around their houses, it's expensive and it's
really a trade off with risk.

G. If you have an Elecraft rig, you're covered. If you don't, make
sure there's a bleed [RF choke or high value resistor] across the
antenna connector. Precip static can sound innocuous if annoying, but
without the bleed, it can store charge in the input circuit and
ultimately cream it. We killed 2 IC-756PRO II's in 2009 from this in a
snowstorm during the Cal QSO Party in Alpine County.

If you have any specific questions, I'd recommend first contacting Jim,
K9YC [who is really near Santa Cruz CA]. He has a wealth of information
and tutorials on his web site. The grandson of Art, my Elmer of 57
years ago, W6RMK, now holds his grandad's call and has made his living
as a lightning expert. If some question comes up, I'll be glad to take
it to him. This pretty much exhausts my knowledge.

73,

Fred K6DGW
Auburn CA
On 3/28/2011 9:35 PM, Phil Townsend wrote:

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.

In reply to this post by Bob Naumann W5OV

Bob,

A ground fault is either an open ground wire in the AC wiring system, or
it is more commonly a short of the hot wire to ground (could be just
leakage, like leakage from a capacitor from the hot wire to the chassis).

The separate grounds do not have the same resistance back to the AC
mains ground, and will cause the equipment chassis to elevate above the
potential of the grounded AC mains safety ground wire. How much depends
on how much resistance difference there is between the two ground rods
(soil does not conduct very well in many areas).

I refer you to section 28.1.9 of the ARRL Handbook for 2010, especially
figures 28.6 and 28.7 which clearly illustrate the situation. This
information was not in the 2005 edition of the ARRL Handbook, and I
don't know when it was first included, but I am very glad to see it covered.

Don't have the ARRL Handbook? Get one, it is worth the price.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/28/2011 6:45 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Don,
>
> I often see this warning and I have some questions.
>
> You said:
>
>> First, it is required by National Electric Code, and 2nd because it is
>> dangerous without it. Should you have a ground fault in your house
>> wiring,
> Please define a "ground fault" as you are using the term here.
>
>> everything connected to that isolated ground rod can carry the
>> ground current - touching anything within the area that is connected to
>> the house wiring, but not to the ground rod at the same time as touching
>> those items which are connected to the ground rod can cause
>> electrocution.
> How would everything in your home suddenly become hot?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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Don Wilhelm-5

Re: Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.

In reply to this post by Byron Servies

Byron,

Thanks for posting that quote.
As a matter of importance, all "grounds" are not the same. What we have
been discussing is the Electrical Safety Ground, which IMHO is the most
important one to be considered. The safety of you and your family
depend on it.

The RF return (antenna ground) does not have to be at earth ground
potential (but usually will be when it enters the shack through a
grounded coax connector). If you think of this as the antenna RF Return
rather than as ground, the situation may be a bit clearer. The RF
Ground point is that reference point determined by your antenna - for a
center fed balanced antenna, it is that point where the antenna current
passes through zero and changes phase at some point between the feedline
connections to the radiator(s). This point is obviously not earth
ground, but it should be considered the RF Ground point for that antenna.
A vertical with grounded radials is similar, but a better term for the
radial field is "RF radial screen" than using RF Ground, which it may or
may not be.

Chassis ground is another example. In some pieces of equipment, it is
isolated from the Safety Ground - consider a power supply with an
isolated return terminal - or consider equipment that is powered from a
battery, there is no need to connect its common to the AC Safety ground
for it to be functional, but if there are exposed areas of that return
ground that are likely to be touched (that ground is connected to a
metallic enclosure), then it should be connected to the AC safety ground
even when operated on batteries.

Lightning and transient dissipation ground is a different animal
altogether. The currents can be huge, and the frequencies involved are
all over the RF spectrum. The principle behind any lightning protection
grounding is to provide enough low impedance conductors in the earth to
dissipate that surge over as large an area of the earth as possible -
that takes a lot of ground rods spread over a large area and very fat
conductors between them. Yes, that system of ground wires and rods must
also be connected to the AC entry ground rod unless the distance between
those two grounds is at least 150 feet apart. Towers, fences, and
anything metallic within that 150 foot radius should also be connected
to that Lightning and Dissipation ground system. If in doubt, connect it.

I refer you to the writings of Ron Block - I consider his information on
lightning protection for the ham shack authoritarian. He published a 3
part article in QST beginning in June 2002 (Google for lightning
protection Ron Block). I suggest reading it if ham station protection
is one of your goals. It is the document I considered "golden" when I
was setting up the ground system for my station and antennas. I was
dealing with new construction which made installation a bit easier, but
I have tried to implement as many of his recommendations as possible,
including perimeter wires around the buildings. Even so, I do not
operate when a lightning storm is nearby. No matter how good your
protection installation may be, it is not to be trusted for a direct
hit. Disconnect the equipment and get out of the shack.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/28/2011 7:15 PM, Byron Servies wrote:

> begin quote
>
> 28.1.8 Grounds
>
> As hams we are concerned with at least four kinds of things called
> "ground," even if they really aren't ground in the sense of connection
> to the Earth. These are easily confused because we call each of them
> "ground."
> 1) Electrical safety ground (bonding)
> 2) RF return (antenna ground)
> 3) Common reference potential (chassis ground)
> 4) Lightning and transient dissipation ground
>
> IEEE Std 1100-2005 (also known as the "Emerald Book," see the
> Reference listing, section 28.1.13) provides detailed information from
> a theoretical and practical standpoint for grounding and powering
> electrical equipment, including lightning protection and RF EMI/EMC
> concerns. It's expensive to buy but is available through libraries.
>
> end quote.
>

Mel

Re: Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.

In reply to this post by k6dgw

All of this is of course, very good advice. I would like to add a little humor
experience driving through the southwest on the way back to my post at Fort
Gordon, GA.

I left CA and went to the southern route to GA which took me to Flagstaff, AZ
and east. While on the way, I had my 6 meter antenna on the back of my 1957
Chev convertible and the rig unconnected in the back seat. While driving
across the desert, in the afternoon while the overhead storm was obvious, I
heard some snapping sounds, but could not find a source. I stopped for dinner
and got back in the car to continue...... After a while I heard the snapping
sound again. But everything still seemed fine. When the light faded and the
sky darken, the snapping sound was accompanied by a flash in the car. I pulled
off and looked around when it flashed again, it was the end of the coax
connector and the static electricity was arcing across the end of the
connector. I piece of gum wrapper across the end stopped the arcing and I
continued to Ft. Gordon at ease.

Mel, K6KBE

________________________________
From: FredJensen <[hidden email]>
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 4:39:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.

Grounding and lightning protection is not a simple subject Phil. Here's
what I would recommend:

If your home is wired to NEC standards, the neutral [center-tap on the
pole pig] will be tied to the safety ground [green wire in your outlets]
and earth at the service entrance ... only. This means that the "green
wire" in each outlet snakes back to the service entrance before
encountering a "real" ground. It thus makes a useless RF ground and
lightning is RF [see below].

A. You *must* tie your ground rod back to the ground at the entrance
panel. NEC requires it and if it isn't so tied, it can create a real
safety hazard if you should encounter a ground fault. Make it as short
as possible, buried is best, but if short means run under the house,
that's OK. Use #14 copper or larger.

B. AC is excluded from the inside of a conductor by the magnetic field
it creates, and flows near the surface [skin] effect]. The higher the
frequency, the closer to the surface it is. The conductors on one of
the original 230 KV lines from Hoover Dam to Los Angeles are hollow for
that reason.

C. Lightning currents are mainly RF, and flow only on the very surface
of the conductor and you want a lot of surface area, volume contributes
almost nothing. So, wide copper strap is good. Large gauge stranded
copper wire is less effective but better than solid wire. For the fire
lookouts on peaks here in the Sierra Nevada, they use 3/8" - 1/2"
stranded wire running around the roof, catwalks, and tower legs, bonded
to everything including an extensive ground system.

D. Surviving a direct hit to your tower or antenna is problematical at
best. Even if you disconnect and ground your antenna [and rotator]
cables, the induced currents will create high peak potentials to your
equipment [and everything else in the house]. You can't stop that from
happening, and your radio chassis can momentarily rise to very high
potentials.The grounding goal for your equipment is to "keep it all
together." The radio chassis can experience a peak pulse, but if
everything else also gets that same pulse, the differential potential
between them is very low, and little current will flow. The way you do
this is to bring your ground strap into the shack, and using the
shortest wiring you can, ground *each* piece of equipment *separately*
to the same point on the strap.

E. A grounded entrance panel for your coax and rotator cables is very
good, use Polyphasers or similar to bring the cables through. They
won't survive a direct hit, but in that case, that's the least of your
worries, your house may be on fire by then. :-( They will clamp off
induced pulses however and limit potential excursions on your equipment.

F. Unless your home is on stilts over salt water [unlikely in NM :-) ]
I'd guess that your ground rod is probably pretty high impedance for any
currents generated by lightning. At the TV station I worked at in
college [500' tower on a 1,300' ridge], the ground system ran all
around the building with a bunch of ground rods, and included things
like the tower, the fridge, plumbing, the 3 1/8" hard-line exterior,
even the gate on the road, and the steel trench covers inside, They
still made a deafening "clang" when we took a nearby strike. Hams do
install systems like that around their houses, it's expensive and it's
really a trade off with risk.

G. If you have an Elecraft rig, you're covered. If you don't, make
sure there's a bleed [RF choke or high value resistor] across the
antenna connector. Precip static can sound innocuous if annoying, but
without the bleed, it can store charge in the input circuit and
ultimately cream it. We killed 2 IC-756PRO II's in 2009 from this in a
snowstorm during the Cal QSO Party in Alpine County.

If you have any specific questions, I'd recommend first contacting Jim,
K9YC [who is really near Santa Cruz CA]. He has a wealth of information
and tutorials on his web site. The grandson of Art, my Elmer of 57
years ago, W6RMK, now holds his grandad's call and has made his living
as a lightning expert. If some question comes up, I'll be glad to take
it to him. This pretty much exhausts my knowledge.

73,

Fred K6DGW
Auburn CA
On 3/28/2011 9:35 PM, Phil Townsend wrote:

> Lightning question:
>
> I have driven an 8 foot copper clad rod just out side my operating station. Its
>about 6 feet from the rod to my desk.
> I have attached a solid copper wire (1/4" thick) to the ground post (with a
>ground rod clamp) The wire goes thru the wall and is bonded to a copper pipe
>that is 1-1/8" wide that is just under the desk.
>
> So on to my question:
> What is the BEST way to connect my equipment (k3, SB-200 and a remote coax
>switch) to the copper pipe?
>
> Coax braid from RG8 or solid copper wire? and why....
>
>
> Thank You guys...
>
> Phil
> Santa Fe
>
> soon to be a xx5SSR...
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3535 - Release Date: 03/28/11
>
>

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Phil Hystad-3

Re: Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.

You guys should all move to the northwest, such as Seattle. Lightning is more rare then a 100 degree summer day. It happens but definitely not often.

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 28, 2011, at 5:49 PM, Mel Farrer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> All of this is of course, very good advice. I would like to add a little humor
> experience driving through the southwest on the way back to my post at Fort
> Gordon, GA.
>
>
> I left CA and went to the southern route to GA which took me to Flagstaff, AZ
> and east. While on the way, I had my 6 meter antenna on the back of my 1957
> Chev convertible and the rig unconnected in the back seat. While driving
> across the desert, in the afternoon while the overhead storm was obvious, I
> heard some snapping sounds, but could not find a source. I stopped for dinner
> and got back in the car to continue...... After a while I heard the snapping
> sound again. But everything still seemed fine. When the light faded and the
> sky darken, the snapping sound was accompanied by a flash in the car. I pulled
> off and looked around when it flashed again, it was the end of the coax
> connector and the static electricity was arcing across the end of the
> connector. I piece of gum wrapper across the end stopped the arcing and I
> continued to Ft. Gordon at ease.
>
>
> Mel, K6KBE
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: FredJensen <[hidden email]>
> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 4:39:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.
>
> Grounding and lightning protection is not a simple subject Phil. Here's
> what I would recommend:
>
> If your home is wired to NEC standards, the neutral [center-tap on the
> pole pig] will be tied to the safety ground [green wire in your outlets]
> and earth at the service entrance ... only. This means that the "green
> wire" in each outlet snakes back to the service entrance before
> encountering a "real" ground. It thus makes a useless RF ground and
> lightning is RF [see below].
>
> A. You *must* tie your ground rod back to the ground at the entrance
> panel. NEC requires it and if it isn't so tied, it can create a real
> safety hazard if you should encounter a ground fault. Make it as short
> as possible, buried is best, but if short means run under the house,
> that's OK. Use #14 copper or larger.
>
> B. AC is excluded from the inside of a conductor by the magnetic field
> it creates, and flows near the surface [skin] effect]. The higher the
> frequency, the closer to the surface it is. The conductors on one of
> the original 230 KV lines from Hoover Dam to Los Angeles are hollow for
> that reason.
>
> C. Lightning currents are mainly RF, and flow only on the very surface
> of the conductor and you want a lot of surface area, volume contributes
> almost nothing. So, wide copper strap is good. Large gauge stranded
> copper wire is less effective but better than solid wire. For the fire
> lookouts on peaks here in the Sierra Nevada, they use 3/8" - 1/2"
> stranded wire running around the roof, catwalks, and tower legs, bonded
> to everything including an extensive ground system.
>
> D. Surviving a direct hit to your tower or antenna is problematical at
> best. Even if you disconnect and ground your antenna [and rotator]
> cables, the induced currents will create high peak potentials to your
> equipment [and everything else in the house]. You can't stop that from
> happening, and your radio chassis can momentarily rise to very high
> potentials.The grounding goal for your equipment is to "keep it all
> together." The radio chassis can experience a peak pulse, but if
> everything else also gets that same pulse, the differential potential
> between them is very low, and little current will flow. The way you do
> this is to bring your ground strap into the shack, and using the
> shortest wiring you can, ground *each* piece of equipment *separately*
> to the same point on the strap.
>
> E. A grounded entrance panel for your coax and rotator cables is very
> good, use Polyphasers or similar to bring the cables through. They
> won't survive a direct hit, but in that case, that's the least of your
> worries, your house may be on fire by then. :-( They will clamp off
> induced pulses however and limit potential excursions on your equipment.
>
> F. Unless your home is on stilts over salt water [unlikely in NM :-) ]
> I'd guess that your ground rod is probably pretty high impedance for any
> currents generated by lightning. At the TV station I worked at in
> college [500' tower on a 1,300' ridge], the ground system ran all
> around the building with a bunch of ground rods, and included things
> like the tower, the fridge, plumbing, the 3 1/8" hard-line exterior,
> even the gate on the road, and the steel trench covers inside, They
> still made a deafening "clang" when we took a nearby strike. Hams do
> install systems like that around their houses, it's expensive and it's
> really a trade off with risk.
>
> G. If you have an Elecraft rig, you're covered. If you don't, make
> sure there's a bleed [RF choke or high value resistor] across the
> antenna connector. Precip static can sound innocuous if annoying, but
> without the bleed, it can store charge in the input circuit and
> ultimately cream it. We killed 2 IC-756PRO II's in 2009 from this in a
> snowstorm during the Cal QSO Party in Alpine County.
>
> If you have any specific questions, I'd recommend first contacting Jim,
> K9YC [who is really near Santa Cruz CA]. He has a wealth of information
> and tutorials on his web site. The grandson of Art, my Elmer of 57
> years ago, W6RMK, now holds his grandad's call and has made his living
> as a lightning expert. If some question comes up, I'll be glad to take
> it to him. This pretty much exhausts my knowledge.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> Auburn CA
> On 3/28/2011 9:35 PM, Phil Townsend wrote:
>> Lightning question:
>>
>> I have driven an 8 foot copper clad rod just out side my operating station. Its
>> about 6 feet from the rod to my desk.
>> I have attached a solid copper wire (1/4" thick) to the ground post (with a
>> ground rod clamp) The wire goes thru the wall and is bonded to a copper pipe
>> that is 1-1/8" wide that is just under the desk.
>>
>> So on to my question:
>> What is the BEST way to connect my equipment (k3, SB-200 and a remote coax
>> switch) to the copper pipe?
>>
>> Coax braid from RG8 or solid copper wire? and why....
>>
>>
>> Thank You guys...
>>
>> Phil
>> Santa Fe
>>
>> soon to be a xx5SSR...
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3535 - Release Date: 03/28/11
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

KXBill

Re: Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.

Tnx .... Just what we need, more traffic on downtown I-5
KXBill

> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:53:15 -0700
> To: [hidden email]
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Lightning season is on the way in New Mexico.
>
> You guys should all move to the northwest, such as Seattle. Lightning is more rare then a 100 degree summer day. It happens but definitely not often.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>