Question from a newbie

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Question from a newbie

B Peter Treml
I have come into possession of a K2/100 with the DSP filter (KDSP2) but does
not have the noise blanker (KNB2).
Question: (1) Is the noise blanker a worthwhile purchase?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
73, Pete-K8PT

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
B. Peter Treml                 [hidden email]
725 W. Magnetic St.       www.qrz.com/k8pt
Marquette, Mi. 49855
USA

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Re: Question from a newbie

n6wg
Pete
It all depends on the type of noise you experience.
For some kinds of noise, the KNB2 works like magic.
For other kinds, it has no effect at all.  For some odd
noises, it sort of works.
Ultimately, it's a crap shoot.  It is an inexpensive option,
and I would add it as insurance for those times when
it does work.  I have it in both my K2s.
73, Bob N6WG

----- Original Message -----
From: "B Peter Treml" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 4:44 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Question from a newbie


> I have come into possession of a K2/100 with the DSP filter (KDSP2) but
does

> not have the noise blanker (KNB2).
> Question: (1) Is the noise blanker a worthwhile purchase?
> Any thoughts would be appreciated.
> 73, Pete-K8PT
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> B. Peter Treml                 [hidden email]
> 725 W. Magnetic St.       www.qrz.com/k8pt
> Marquette, Mi. 49855
> USA
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

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Re: Question from a newbie

Jesse
In reply to this post by B Peter Treml
http://www.qsl.net/ve3mcf/elecraft_reflect/KNB2_Notes.txt
http://www.ac6rm.net/mailarchive/html/elecraft-list/2001-11/msg00530.html

Hope this helps.


 
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Re: Question from a newbie

Jeff Kinzli N6GQ
In reply to this post by n6wg
I have a K2 with DSP, and just last weekend added the KNB2 to the mix.

So far, for the noise I have here, the DSP denoiser works much better
than the KNB2. I've just been switching it in and out to see what
affect it has, and so far haven't found much noise that it removes.

I'm in a relatively quiet place though, so that might be it.

As Bob said, it's cheap, and it's a kit you can build and install in
about an hour or two, so why not!? :)

73,

Jeff N6GQ

On 3/10/07, Bob Tellefsen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Pete
> It all depends on the type of noise you experience.
> For some kinds of noise, the KNB2 works like magic.
> For other kinds, it has no effect at all.  For some odd
> noises, it sort of works.
> Ultimately, it's a crap shoot.  It is an inexpensive option,
> and I would add it as insurance for those times when
> it does work.  I have it in both my K2s.
> 73, Bob N6WG
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "B Peter Treml" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 4:44 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] Question from a newbie
>
>
> > I have come into possession of a K2/100 with the DSP filter (KDSP2) but
> does
> > not have the noise blanker (KNB2).
> > Question: (1) Is the noise blanker a worthwhile purchase?
> > Any thoughts would be appreciated.
> > 73, Pete-K8PT
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > B. Peter Treml                 [hidden email]
> > 725 W. Magnetic St.       www.qrz.com/k8pt
> > Marquette, Mi. 49855
> > USA
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> >  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
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>
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RE: Question from a newbie

Rich McCabe (IWH)
I have had two K2's fully loaded. One with a 38xx serial and the other with
a 44xx serial.

Mine have never left the desk and I have yet to find any type of noise
artificial or other that the NB works on. It's fun to build but in my
opinion if you are looking for bang for the buck, that's not it.

73,
Rich
Kd0zv

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeff Kinzli N6GQ
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:22 PM
To: Elecraft Mail Posting
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Question from a newbie

I have a K2 with DSP, and just last weekend added the KNB2 to the mix.

So far, for the noise I have here, the DSP denoiser works much better
than the KNB2. I've just been switching it in and out to see what
affect it has, and so far haven't found much noise that it removes.

I'm in a relatively quiet place though, so that might be it.

As Bob said, it's cheap, and it's a kit you can build and install in
about an hour or two, so why not!? :)

73,

Jeff N6GQ

On 3/10/07, Bob Tellefsen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Pete
> It all depends on the type of noise you experience.
> For some kinds of noise, the KNB2 works like magic.
> For other kinds, it has no effect at all.  For some odd
> noises, it sort of works.
> Ultimately, it's a crap shoot.  It is an inexpensive option,
> and I would add it as insurance for those times when
> it does work.  I have it in both my K2s.
> 73, Bob N6WG
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "B Peter Treml" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 4:44 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] Question from a newbie
>
>
> > I have come into possession of a K2/100 with the DSP filter (KDSP2) but
> does
> > not have the noise blanker (KNB2).
> > Question: (1) Is the noise blanker a worthwhile purchase?
> > Any thoughts would be appreciated.
> > 73, Pete-K8PT
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > B. Peter Treml                 [hidden email]
> > 725 W. Magnetic St.       www.qrz.com/k8pt
> > Marquette, Mi. 49855
> > USA
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> >  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
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RE: Question from a newbie

Fred (FL)
In reply to this post by B Peter Treml
I built my K2 #54xx in May 06.  Built the KNB2 Noise
Blanker.  Then found it never really seemed to work on
any noise!  One day, 4 cement trucks & 2 large
pickups sat like 30 feet from my shack - all running,
all working.  The KNB2 did nothing to remove any of
that man-made noise.  Also it doesn't work on any band
noise - that I ever found. I even got a 2nd KNB2, from
Elecraft - and it didn't work either?

The K2 itself - after build - operated true to
all specs, calibrations, & alignments beautifully.

I've since felt, the KNB2 is a design job left to be
re-done, by some Elecraft designer, when they get
around to it.  The IC-7000's Noise Reduction and
Noise Blanker circuitry - amazingly almost always
reduces most band noises, real or imaginary,
dramatically.  Maybe in the K3?

Fred N3CSY


 
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Re: Question from a newbie

Tom Hammond-3
In reply to this post by B Peter Treml
Hi Pete:

I'm always the 'late' one to reply it seems...

The KNB2 is a very good blanker... on CERTAIN noise types... but, as
with virtually blankers, you DO have to have the right type of noise.

It's generally very good no line noise, sparkplug/elec. mixer/elec.
fencer noises as well.

If you're interested,
download  http://www.n0ss.net/knb2_demo.zip  from my web site and
take a listen to my KNB2 in action. This was NOT a 'set-up'
demonstration, I just happened to tune across a 20M signal one day
when my line noise was pretty much out of sight, turned the KNB2 on,
and the noise disappeared... figgered it was a good demo, so I
recorded a bit of it.

I have to say as well that there WILL be times when the KNB2 will
appear to do NOTHING, even though I feel it should be doing its job
on some noise I'm hearing. Though I've not 'scoped out' the noise,
it's apparent that it must have some characteristic that the KNB2
doesn't like, or can't cope with, so the noise remains... but in
general, the KNB2 works very well... FOR ME anyway!

73,

Tom Hammond    N0SS

At 07:44 PM 3/10/2007, you wrote:

>I have come into possession of a K2/100 with the DSP filter (KDSP2) but does
>not have the noise blanker (KNB2).
>Question: (1) Is the noise blanker a worthwhile purchase?
>Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>73, Pete-K8PT
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>B. Peter Treml                 [hidden email]
>725 W. Magnetic St.       www.qrz.com/k8pt
>Marquette, Mi. 49855
>USA
>
>_______________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Post to: [hidden email]
>You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

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RE: Question from a newbie

Ron D'Eau Claire-2
In reply to this post by Fred (FL)
It's all about the source of the noise.

My KNB2 has made it possible for me to operate where I'd otherwise have
noise pegging the "S-Meter".

The KNB2 removes repetitive high-amplitude pulse noise such as that produced
by automobile ignition systems, cheap lamp dimmers, etc., that cause a loud
"buzzzzz" in the audio. It senses the noise pulses and literally turns the
signal path off for a very brief period when the next pulse arrives.

Other kinds of noise, such as hash from d-c motor commutators or band noise
aren't affected by the KNB2. Since large trucks such as you described are
invariably diesel powered and so have no ignition system, the most likely
source of that noise were the commutators in the d-c motors they use. That
produces a hash much like heavy band QRN.  

The only way to reduce that noise that I've seen yet is a system to
digitally process the signal, picking out the noise elements with a
sophisticate algorithm. The Elecraft KDSP2 offers that ability. I don't have
the KDSP2 in my K2 but the comments from users posted here no the reflector
suggest that it's "denoiser" function works quite well.

Ron AC7AC

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fred (FL)
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 6:43 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Question from a newbie


I built my K2 #54xx in May 06.  Built the KNB2 Noise
Blanker.  Then found it never really seemed to work on
any noise!  One day, 4 cement trucks & 2 large
pickups sat like 30 feet from my shack - all running,
all working.  The KNB2 did nothing to remove any of
that man-made noise.  Also it doesn't work on any band
noise - that I ever found. I even got a 2nd KNB2, from
Elecraft - and it didn't work either?

The K2 itself - after build - operated true to
all specs, calibrations, & alignments beautifully.

I've since felt, the KNB2 is a design job left to be
re-done, by some Elecraft designer, when they get
around to it.  The IC-7000's Noise Reduction and
Noise Blanker circuitry - amazingly almost always
reduces most band noises, real or imaginary,
dramatically.  Maybe in the K3?

Fred N3CSY


 
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Re: Question from a newbie

Ken Kopp
In reply to this post by Fred (FL)
I made (essentially) the same reply to this identical question when it
was posed awhile back.

The "4 concrete trucks" and "two large pickups" were almost certain to
have had diesel engines and therefore would have had minimal ... if any
... electrical noise to be heard.  Even the motors operating the
concrete-handling mechanisms would have been hudraulic.  Not a good
"test" for a noise blanker/eleminator. (;-)

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
[hidden email]


 


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Re: Question from a newbie

Bob Cunnings NW8L
In reply to this post by Jeff Kinzli N6GQ
Then you are fortunate enough not to be subject to power line noise at
your QTH. Here I've had continuing problems with power line noise (a
raspy buzz) and the K2 noise blanker is very effective indeed.

Bob NW8L

On 3/10/07, Rich McCabe (IWH) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have had two K2's fully loaded. One with a 38xx serial and the other with
> a 44xx serial.
>
> Mine have never left the desk and I have yet to find any type of noise
> artificial or other that the NB works on. It's fun to build but in my
> opinion if you are looking for bang for the buck, that's not it.
>
> 73,
> Rich
> Kd0zv
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeff Kinzli N6GQ
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:22 PM
> To: Elecraft Mail Posting
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Question from a newbie
>
> I have a K2 with DSP, and just last weekend added the KNB2 to the mix.
>
> So far, for the noise I have here, the DSP denoiser works much better
> than the KNB2. I've just been switching it in and out to see what
> affect it has, and so far haven't found much noise that it removes.
>
> I'm in a relatively quiet place though, so that might be it.
>
> As Bob said, it's cheap, and it's a kit you can build and install in
> about an hour or two, so why not!? :)
>
> 73,
>
> Jeff N6GQ
>
> On 3/10/07, Bob Tellefsen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Pete
> > It all depends on the type of noise you experience.
> > For some kinds of noise, the KNB2 works like magic.
> > For other kinds, it has no effect at all.  For some odd
> > noises, it sort of works.
> > Ultimately, it's a crap shoot.  It is an inexpensive option,
> > and I would add it as insurance for those times when
> > it does work.  I have it in both my K2s.
> > 73, Bob N6WG
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "B Peter Treml" <[hidden email]>
> > To: <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 4:44 PM
> > Subject: [Elecraft] Question from a newbie
> >
> >
> > > I have come into possession of a K2/100 with the DSP filter (KDSP2) but
> > does
> > > not have the noise blanker (KNB2).
> > > Question: (1) Is the noise blanker a worthwhile purchase?
> > > Any thoughts would be appreciated.
> > > 73, Pete-K8PT
> > >
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > B. Peter Treml                 [hidden email]
> > > 725 W. Magnetic St.       www.qrz.com/k8pt
> > > Marquette, Mi. 49855
> > > USA
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > Post to: [hidden email]
> > > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> > >  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > >
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> >  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
> >
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Question from a newbie

John Lonigro
In reply to this post by Ken Kopp
While it is true these trucks were probably diesels and therefore there
was no IGNITION noise, it is certainly still possible for them to have
produced electrical noise.  If nothing else, they have alternators.  I'm
sure we've all heard alternator noise and I suspect the alternators on
these trucks are heavy duty, capable of producing heavy duty noise.  I'm
not up to speed on modern diesel engine technologies, but the fuel pump
and fuel injectors might also be electrical these days, not mechanical,
as in days of yore (35 years ago when I was a diesel mechanic in the army).

73's,
John AA0VE

Ken Kopp wrote:
> The "4 concrete trucks" and "two large pickups" were almost certain to
> have had diesel engines and therefore would have had minimal ... if
> any ... electrical noise to be heard.  Even the motors operating the
> concrete-handling mechanisms would have been hudraulic.  Not a good
> "test" for a noise blanker/eleminator. (;-)
>
> 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
> [hidden email]
>
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RE: Question from a newbie

Ron D'Eau Claire-2
True. And in modern equipment, high-current electrical motors are starting
to appear more often as alternator/battery technology improves. In general,
the number of electrically-powered equipment is on the rise.

One thing the KNB2 can handle nicely from a diesel engine is the
rare-but-troublesome-when-present staccato noise from some electric fuel
injectors. They can be every bit as bad as noisy spark plugs.

As Bob observed, *some* power line noise can be removed as well. If
something is arcing over cleanly and regularly the KNB2 will kill it. It's
the "frying egg" types of noise consisting of a mass of overlapping pulses
of varying rates and durations that the KNB2 can't handle.

Ron AC7AC

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John R. Lonigro
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 10:40 AM
To: Ken Kopp
Cc: [hidden email]; Fred (FL)
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Question from a newbie


While it is true these trucks were probably diesels and therefore there
was no IGNITION noise, it is certainly still possible for them to have
produced electrical noise.  If nothing else, they have alternators.  I'm
sure we've all heard alternator noise and I suspect the alternators on
these trucks are heavy duty, capable of producing heavy duty noise.  I'm
not up to speed on modern diesel engine technologies, but the fuel pump
and fuel injectors might also be electrical these days, not mechanical,
as in days of yore (35 years ago when I was a diesel mechanic in the army).

73's,
John AA0VE

Ken Kopp wrote:
> The "4 concrete trucks" and "two large pickups" were almost certain to
> have had diesel engines and therefore would have had minimal ... if
> any ... electrical noise to be heard.  Even the motors operating the
> concrete-handling mechanisms would have been hudraulic.  Not a good
> "test" for a noise blanker/eleminator. (;-)
>
> 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
> [hidden email]
>

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