RE: TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update

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RE: TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update

Steve Sacco NN4X
Hi John -

Actually (and this may be a shock to "The Believers") you might be surprised to know that there seems to be a rather LARGE group of people who agree with me, not only for the "TRANSLATION" e-mail, but also the "OPEN LETTER" e-mail which I sent last month.  They say so, enthusiastically, in private correspondence.  No joke.

You see, John, when all's said and done, all we have is our reputation.

There are those who stand and deliver on promises, those who don't.

Those who's word cannot be trusted must be held accountable.  This HAS to be the case, because, at a high level, what else holds a civilization together?

Anyway, enjoy S/N 157!

73,

Steve NN4X
EL98jh







Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:32:18 -0500
From: "John Gaynard" <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update
        (KRX3 option)
To: <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <029001c85993$7dd2f120$7978d360$@rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

I doubt you'll get any chuckles from the majority of list readers.  Probably
just the opposite.  I do not believe that Wayne's emails need any
translation.

John K8WDN
K3 #157

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RE: TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update

Tom AK2B
Hi Steve,

"The Believers" sounds more like a 60's rock group than a description of Elecraft customers. From my perspective, working for a small business, you become well acquainted with your customers over a period of time. A lot of these customers come back because they trust you based upon their past experiences. So, you are absolutely correct when you say that a company's word and reputation are paramount. I've been dealing with Elecraft since 2004. In that time I've had numerous occasions where I had to contact the company for a variety of reasons. In no case were my e-mails or phone calls ignored or sidetracked to a foreign country. Every experience I've had with Elecraft whether through their products or customer support has been positive. (I wish I could say that about more than a handful of the companies I do business with.)

The simple truth is, any company can hit a bump in the road and will. At that point, they have to rely on their word and past reputation. Based upon Elecraft's track record, I don't feel the least worried. When I read posts like yours, I just assume you haven't any prior experience with the company in which to base your comments. It is very easy to look with a jaundiced eye towards a lot of disreputable businesses these days and then lump them all together. In the long run, though, it is not fair to those that who have done nothing to warrant it.

I don't see Elecraft as a religion to which your "Believers" tag implies. They are a COMPANY of people of which I have had the pleasure of doing business with. I like what they sell and I like the way the treat me. It’s that simple.

The K3 is as a major undertaking by a couple of wide eyed hams in Aptos who think they can build the world’s best amateur transceiver. I think they have done it – even though there remain a few bumps. I think they also feel a strong sense of responsibility in making sure that you not only get what they have advertised but that it also works as advertised.  

Frankly, I see it all as rather exciting that the K3 is still undergoing so many changes right before my eyes and that it only takes a few mouse clicks to implement them. But, make no mistake, the K3 as it sits is a remarkable product - maybe not finished - but, none-the-less, remarkable. The fact that the K3 will be getting even better with time leaves me feeling that my money was not only well spent – but is also producing dividends.

Come to think of it, maybe I am a Believer.

Tom, AK2B

Steve Sacco NN4X wrote
Actually (and this may be a shock to "The Believers") you might be surprised to know that there seems to be a rather LARGE group of people who agree with me, not only for the "TRANSLATION" e-mail, but also the "OPEN LETTER" e-mail which I sent last month.  They say so, enthusiastically, in private correspondence.  No joke.

You see, John, when all's said and done, all we have is our reputation.

There are those who stand and deliver on promises, those who don't.

Those who's word cannot be trusted must be held accountable.  This HAS to be the case, because, at a high level, what else holds a civilization together?

Anyway, enjoy S/N 157!

73,

Steve NN4X
EL98jh
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Re: TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update

John Klewer
AMEN!



Tom AK2B wrote:

>Hi Steve,
>
>"The Believers" sounds more like a 60's rock group than a description of
>Elecraft customers. From my perspective, working for a small business, you
>become well acquainted with your customers over a period of time. A lot of
>these customers come back because they trust you based upon their past
>experiences. So, you are absolutely correct when you say that a company's
>word and reputation are paramount. I've been dealing with Elecraft since
>2004. In that time I've had numerous occasions where I had to contact the
>company for a variety of reasons. In no case were my e-mails or phone calls
>ignored or sidetracked to a foreign country. Every experience I've had with
>Elecraft whether through their products or customer support has been
>positive. (I wish I could say that about more than a handful of the
>companies I do business with.)
>
>The simple truth is, any company can hit a bump in the road and will. At
>that point, they have to rely on their word and past reputation. Based upon
>Elecraft's track record, I don't feel the least worried. When I read posts
>like yours, I just assume you haven't any prior experience with the company
>in which to base your comments. It is very easy to look with a jaundiced eye
>towards a lot of disreputable businesses these days and then lump them all
>together. In the long run, though, it is not fair to those that who have
>done nothing to warrant it.
>
>I don't see Elecraft as a religion to which your "Believers" tag implies.
>They are a COMPANY of people of which I have had the pleasure of doing
>business with. I like what they sell and I like the way the treat me. It’s
>that simple.
>
>The K3 is as a major undertaking by a couple of wide eyed hams in Aptos who
>think they can build the world’s best amateur transceiver. I think they have
>done it – even though there remain a few bumps. I think they also feel a
>strong sense of responsibility in making sure that you not only get what
>they have advertised but that it also works as advertised.  
>
>Frankly, I see it all as rather exciting that the K3 is still undergoing so
>many changes right before my eyes and that it only takes a few mouse clicks
>to implement them. But, make no mistake, the K3 as it sits is a remarkable
>product - maybe not finished - but, none-the-less, remarkable. The fact that
>the K3 will be getting even better with time leaves me feeling that my money
>was not only well spent – but is also producing dividends.
>
>Come to think of it, maybe I am a Believer.
>
>Tom, AK2B
>
>
>Steve Sacco NN4X wrote:
>  
>
>>Actually (and this may be a shock to "The Believers") you might be
>>surprised to know that there seems to be a rather LARGE group of people
>>who agree with me, not only for the "TRANSLATION" e-mail, but also the
>>"OPEN LETTER" e-mail which I sent last month.  They say so,
>>enthusiastically, in private correspondence.  No joke.
>>
>>You see, John, when all's said and done, all we have is our reputation.
>>
>>There are those who stand and deliver on promises, those who don't.
>>
>>Those who's word cannot be trusted must be held accountable.  This HAS to
>>be the case, because, at a high level, what else holds a civilization
>>together?
>>
>>Anyway, enjoy S/N 157!
>>
>>73,
>>
>>Steve NN4X
>>EL98jh
>>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
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Re: TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update

Ken Kopp
In reply to this post by Tom AK2B
Nicely said, Tom.

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP

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Re: TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update

Jim Brewster
In reply to this post by John Klewer
Likewise.  Jim - KE0NE
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Klewer" <[hidden email]>
To: "Tom AK2B" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update


> AMEN!
>
>
>
> Tom AK2B wrote:
>
>>Hi Steve,
>>
>>"The Believers" sounds more like a 60's rock group than a description of
>>Elecraft customers. From my perspective, working for a small business, you
>>become well acquainted with your customers over a period of time. A lot of
>>these customers come back because they trust you based upon their past
>>experiences. So, you are absolutely correct when you say that a company's
>>word and reputation are paramount. I've been dealing with Elecraft since
>>2004. In that time I've had numerous occasions where I had to contact the
>>company for a variety of reasons. In no case were my e-mails or phone
>>calls
>>ignored or sidetracked to a foreign country. Every experience I've had
>>with
>>Elecraft whether through their products or customer support has been
>>positive. (I wish I could say that about more than a handful of the
>>companies I do business with.)
>>
>>The simple truth is, any company can hit a bump in the road and will. At
>>that point, they have to rely on their word and past reputation. Based
>>upon
>>Elecraft's track record, I don't feel the least worried. When I read posts
>>like yours, I just assume you haven't any prior experience with the
>>company
>>in which to base your comments. It is very easy to look with a jaundiced
>>eye
>>towards a lot of disreputable businesses these days and then lump them all
>>together. In the long run, though, it is not fair to those that who have
>>done nothing to warrant it.
>>I don't see Elecraft as a religion to which your "Believers" tag implies.
>>They are a COMPANY of people of which I have had the pleasure of doing
>>business with. I like what they sell and I like the way the treat me. It’s
>>that simple.
>>
>>The K3 is as a major undertaking by a couple of wide eyed hams in Aptos
>>who
>>think they can build the world’s best amateur transceiver. I think they
>>have
>>done it – even though there remain a few bumps. I think they also feel a
>>strong sense of responsibility in making sure that you not only get what
>>they have advertised but that it also works as advertised.
>>Frankly, I see it all as rather exciting that the K3 is still undergoing
>>so
>>many changes right before my eyes and that it only takes a few mouse
>>clicks
>>to implement them. But, make no mistake, the K3 as it sits is a remarkable
>>product - maybe not finished - but, none-the-less, remarkable. The fact
>>that
>>the K3 will be getting even better with time leaves me feeling that my
>>money
>>was not only well spent – but is also producing dividends.
>>Come to think of it, maybe I am a Believer.
>>
>>Tom, AK2B
>>
>>
>>Steve Sacco NN4X wrote:
>>
>>>Actually (and this may be a shock to "The Believers") you might be
>>>surprised to know that there seems to be a rather LARGE group of people
>>>who agree with me, not only for the "TRANSLATION" e-mail, but also the
>>>"OPEN LETTER" e-mail which I sent last month.  They say so,
>>>enthusiastically, in private correspondence.  No joke.
>>>
>>>You see, John, when all's said and done, all we have is our reputation.
>>>
>>>There are those who stand and deliver on promises, those who don't.
>>>
>>>Those who's word cannot be trusted must be held accountable.  This HAS to
>>>be the case, because, at a high level, what else holds a civilization
>>>together?
>>>
>>>Anyway, enjoy S/N 157!
>>>
>>>73,
>>>
>>>Steve NN4X
>>>EL98jh
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>

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RE: TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update

Stephen W. Kercel
In reply to this post by Tom AK2B
Fellow Elecrafters:

I have no doubt as to the integrity, honesty or technical excellence
of Elecraft, and am delighted with the K2 that I have been using for
the past two years.

As I posted on this list about 6 months ago, my impression of the
release of the K3 is that it is a lot like release of the whatever is
the latest version of Windows. At the time, someone responded to me
that "thank God, Elecraft is not Microsoft." That much is true.
Microsoft always makes its major releases several years before they
are actually ready (and does not appear even to be embarrassed about
it). Elecraft has dropped the ball only this once.

Nevertheless, they have indeed dropped the ball on the K3. I stand by
my initial expectation that although I would like to have a K3, I see
no point in ordering one until at least two years after the initial
release date. The seemingly endless delay in delivering on orders
prepaid 7 months ago, the indefinite unavailability of the
sub-receiver (a prime motivation in my choice to upgrade from the K2
when the time finally does come), and the rapid ongoing evolution of
the firmware all indicate to me that the K3 was nowhere close to
being ready when Elecraft started taking orders last spring.

I remain a loyal customer of Elecraft, but I do hope that they will
take a lesson from this debacle.

Steve Kercel
AA4AK


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Re: TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update

Simon (HB9DRV)
Myself I don't consider this a debacle at all - what we are seeing is a
small high-tech company bringing out a product that is already surpassing
the competition in terms of performance and putting the release of a
flagship radio from one of the major Japanese manufacturers to shame.

There is more communication with the engineers at Elecraft in a single week
than with the combined engineers at Kenwood / Icom / Yaesu in a whole year.

I do not call delaying a module a debacle when the engineers decide it
doesn't meet the current design targets.

The delay in the sub-RX is making me reconsider whether to buy the sub-RX
and instead just buy a second basic K3 to use for RX.

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen W. Kercel" <[hidden email]>
>
> I remain a loyal customer of Elecraft, but I do hope that they will take a
> lesson from this debacle.
>
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Re: TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update

ac0h
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Exactly!

My definition of a debacle is something like the Yaesu FT-1000 series of
key click generators that were allowed on the air. Yaesu was dragged
kicking and screaming over the course of five years into the realization
that there was a problem. AFAIK, Yaesu NEVER publicly admitted the
design flaw and pretty much left their customers who cared about the
quality of their transmitted signal holding the bag.

They're still putting out trash. Take a look at the ARRL lab report on
Yaesu's new entry level rig, the FT-450. I've never seen one that bad.
My TS-520 does better and it's 30 years old.

The difference is the design engineer/co-owner for the K3 has the
cajones to post the problems which have been encountered, and the fixes
and time frame necessary to put out a top flight product. The Yaesu
engineers/owners hid under their desk and the marketing department.

Also, Vertex Standard is huge and has many times the technical and
manufacturing resources compared to Elecraft. I'd be surprised if
Elecraft have more than 25 people on the payroll.


Simon Brown (HB9DRV) wrote:
| Myself I don't consider this a debacle at all - what we are seeing is a
| small high-tech company bringing out a product that is already
| surpassing the competition in terms of performance and putting the
| release of a flagship radio from one of the major Japanese manufacturers
| to shame.
|
| There is more communication with the engineers at Elecraft in a single
| week than with the combined engineers at Kenwood / Icom / Yaesu in a
| whole year.
|
| I do not call delaying a module a debacle when the engineers decide it
| doesn't meet the current design targets.
|
| The delay in the sub-RX is making me reconsider whether to buy the
| sub-RX and instead just buy a second basic K3 to use for RX.
|
| Simon Brown, HB9DRV

- --
R. Kevin Stover, ACØH
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update

Stephen W. Kercel
In reply to this post by Simon (HB9DRV)
Fellow Elecrafters:

As several posters have noted, characterizing the situation as a
"debacle" is a bit extreme.

My apologies.

73,

Steve Kercel
AA4AK


>Myself I don't consider this a debacle at all


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Ham Radio Deluxe

Stephen W. Kercel
In reply to this post by Stephen W. Kercel
Fellow Elecrafters:

I am finally getting ready to add a computer to the shack, and to
connect it to my K2.

I am thinking of running Ham Radio Deluxe to control the rig from the computer.

Any particular pitfalls I need to watch for? (BTW, I do realize that
the serial port on the K2 is not wired as a standard RS-232, and that
I need to use the serial cable that comes with the rig.)

Are there other rig control programs that merit consideration?

Any recommendations on contest/logging programs?

Thanks!

73,

Steve Kercel
AA4AK


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Re: Ham Radio Deluxe

Stewart Baker
Logger32 for general logging, WinTest for contesting.

73
Stewart G3RXQ
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:39:26 -0500, Stephen W. Kercel wrote:
> Fellow Elecrafters:
>
> I am finally getting ready to add a computer to the shack, and
to
> connect it to my K2.
>
> I am thinking of running Ham Radio Deluxe to control the rig
from the computer.
>
> Any particular pitfalls I need to watch for? (BTW, I do realize
that
> the serial port on the K2 is not wired as a standard RS-232, and
that

> I need to use the serial cable that comes with the rig.)
>
> Are there other rig control programs that merit consideration?
>
> Any recommendations on contest/logging programs?
>
> Thanks!
>
> 73,
>
> Steve Kercel
> AA4AK
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
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>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com


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RE: Ham Radio Deluxe

Joe Subich, W4TV-3
In reply to this post by Stephen W. Kercel

> Are there other rig control programs that merit consideration?
>
> Any recommendations on contest/logging programs?

DXLab Suite: (DXKeeper for logging, CI-V Commander for control
   WinWarbler for RTTY/PSK31, Spot Collector for DX Alerting)
   www.dxlabsuite.com

N1MM Logger for contesting www.n1mm.com

Both are completely free and extremely well supported by active
user communities at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlab and
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/n1mmlogger respectively.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV
 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Stephen W. Kercel
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 9:39 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Ham Radio Deluxe
>
>
> Fellow Elecrafters:
>
> I am finally getting ready to add a computer to the shack, and to
> connect it to my K2.
>
> I am thinking of running Ham Radio Deluxe to control the rig
> from the computer.
>
> Any particular pitfalls I need to watch for? (BTW, I do realize that
> the serial port on the K2 is not wired as a standard RS-232, and that
> I need to use the serial cable that comes with the rig.)
>
> Are there other rig control programs that merit consideration?
>
> Any recommendations on contest/logging programs?
>
> Thanks!
>
> 73,
>
> Steve Kercel
> AA4AK
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>

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Re: Ham Radio Deluxe

Vic K2VCO
In reply to this post by Stephen W. Kercel
Stephen W. Kercel wrote:

> Fellow Elecrafters:
>
> I am finally getting ready to add a computer to the shack, and to
> connect it to my K2.
>
> I am thinking of running Ham Radio Deluxe to control the rig from the
> computer.
>
> Any particular pitfalls I need to watch for? (BTW, I do realize that the
> serial port on the K2 is not wired as a standard RS-232, and that I need
> to use the serial cable that comes with the rig.)

I can't think of anything else. The K2 requires 4800 baud, N-8-1.

> Are there other rig control programs that merit consideration?

There may be, but I've never seen anything that even compares with HRD!

> Any recommendations on contest/logging programs?

I like N1MM, which is free, constantly updated, and very easy to learn.

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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RE: Ham Radio Deluxe

James C. Hall, MD-2
In reply to this post by Stephen W. Kercel
Steve:

I use Logic 8 for general logging and N1MM Logger for contesting. The former
costs $129 and the latter is free. HRD I haven't used in some time but the
price is right !

73, Jamie
WB4YDL

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stephen W. Kercel
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 8:39 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Ham Radio Deluxe

Fellow Elecrafters:

I am finally getting ready to add a computer to the shack, and to
connect it to my K2.

I am thinking of running Ham Radio Deluxe to control the rig from the
computer.

Any particular pitfalls I need to watch for? (BTW, I do realize that
the serial port on the K2 is not wired as a standard RS-232, and that
I need to use the serial cable that comes with the rig.)

Are there other rig control programs that merit consideration?

Any recommendations on contest/logging programs?

Thanks!

73,

Steve Kercel
AA4AK


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Re: Ham Radio Deluxe

Peter Bacon
In reply to this post by Stephen W. Kercel
I successfully use TRX-Manager to control my K3, and feed the frequency/mode
information through into DX4Win.  TRX-Manager so far only has a couple of K3
special features implemented such as a volume control, otherwise it's
interface is similar to the K2.  I am assured by the developer of
TRX-Manager that more features will be included in the next update.

73 Peter G3ZSS

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Re: Ham Radio Deluxe

Stephen W. Kercel
Thanks to all posters on HRD and contest programs.

Looks like there is some really straightforward stuff out there.

73,

Steve Kercel
AA4AK



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Re: Ham Radio Deluxe

Chris G3SJJ
In reply to this post by Peter Bacon
You kept that K3 quiet Peter!!

I am a bit puzzled though. I have been investigating remote using HRD
(which I must register!) and also have used TRX Manager but that was
located in W6 land for a remote demo, but other than that I have yet to
understand why there is need to use any software other than a logging
program. I use Logger32 for general use and N1MM for contests, both have
the usual radio interface and Cluster access via Telnet. I am obviously
missing something but not sure what!

Chris G3SJJ


Peter Bacon wrote:

> I successfully use TRX-Manager to control my K3, and feed the frequency/mode
> information through into DX4Win.  TRX-Manager so far only has a couple of K3
> special features implemented such as a volume control, otherwise it's
> interface is similar to the K2.  I am assured by the developer of
> TRX-Manager that more features will be included in the next update.
>
> 73 Peter G3ZSS
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>  
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Re: Ham Radio Deluxe

rkayakr
In reply to this post by Stephen W. Kercel
Steve

  No special problems with HRD and the K2.

  DX Labs is another great family of ham radio software tools. I usually run Spot Collector and Pathfinder and use DXkeeper as my main log. I don't like DX Commander as much. Fortunately there is a handy little interface software that lets me use HRD for rig control with the DX Labs suite.

    Bob
     KD8CGH