RE: ridge vent as antenna?
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> Has anyone had any experience using ridge vents as antenna > (or part of an antenna)? Effect of rain wetting the roof > shingles? Comments?? > > 73 > Ray K2HYD > Ray, Another possibility for overcoming your limitation is to use weather balloons to loft your antenna: http://www.allsopp.co.uk/ They have many different sizes of balloons to choose from. You could easily use a vertical antenna, and raise it several hundred feet without a problem. Just make sure you're not too close to an airport..... Tony K4YYZ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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A while ago, with new bride, one child, and a burning need to get on the
air.. in a rented house... in a neighborhood that had rf haters... (tv sets that waited for the joy to pounce upon a piece of unsuspecting rf scooting by, like a starved cat on a mouse)... I found myself wanting a good dx antenna and condx were such that 40 would be just about right. So.... up went a #40 wire dipole... next day: down went the dipole... victim to a low flying bird... or wind...so... up went an end fed #40 wire, in a different direction, and somewhat protected from flying animals... I thought. Wrong! this time, bride mentioned that the spiderweb over the clothes line just wasn't going to work out well. She was right... it didn't... either for her or me. Somewhat square house.... one story high.... not a flat roof, but pretty much ok to walk on... how do you get a vertical up there without being seen... no the street lights were too bright too. Besides... standing a flag pole on your roof was outta the question. ... WAIT!! What? A downspout... and it was just outside the window of the hamshack too... yep and metal too. But how do you cut a gutter to seperate it from the downspo... vertical? tape measure in hand... can't believe it... no.. it can't be... yep.. sure is.. the gutter was a half wave long on 40. AND... another downspout too... WOW this is wild... how lucky can I be? A pair of verticals on 40... Someone named Bob with a short behind made one of these right? It worked too... rather nicely... but... oh no... sure enuff... there was another pair of them on the other side of the house... Now... I am in fat city.. two Bob's window covers.... WOW... then... then just a bit more thought... and walking around..... and get the tape out... two more pieces of wire... across the roof... and it becomes a ... a ....... square for.... a square for.... well sure silly... a square for working 40 mter dx. And it DiD too.! Very nicely... and pretty much to the shagrin of all the tv sets it did it without detection too. Except for one old tv.... that would not give up... was very good a catching rf... it was... but that is another story... for another time. There is always a way.. sometimes we just don't see it for the way we think we want. --... ...-- Dale - WC7S qrp in Wy.. were the pavement ends and the West begins.. and rf usually doesn't have much of a problem launching... there ain't no trees. >From: "Lanier, Robert" <[hidden email]> >To: <[hidden email]> >Subject: [Elecraft] RE: ridge vent as antenna? >Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:45:47 -0500 > > > > Has anyone had any experience using ridge vents as antenna > > (or part of an antenna)? Effect of rain wetting the roof > > shingles? Comments?? > > > > 73 > > Ray K2HYD > > > >Ray, > >Another possibility for overcoming your limitation is to use weather >balloons to loft your antenna: http://www.allsopp.co.uk/ >They have many different sizes of balloons to choose from. You could >easily use a vertical antenna, and raise it several hundred feet without >a problem. Just make sure you're not too close to an airport..... > >Tony K4YYZ >_______________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Post to: [hidden email] >You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Lanier, Robert
> Another possibility for overcoming your limitation is to use weather balloons to loft your antenna: http://www.allsopp.co.uk/ They have many different sizes of balloons to choose from. You could easily use a vertical antenna, and raise it several hundred feet without a problem. Just make sure you're not too close to an airport..... or a power line. What goes up very often comes down...un-expectantly. Paul N8NOV _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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The problem with balloon lofted antennas is you cannot often have the
balloons only go straight up. Much more likely to blow over sideways above the location and get above neighbors, etc. More likely to get into power lines. Late afternoons, most places have winds come up that play havoc with balloons. Very few days that do not have winds at altitude you would raise the balloon. A great waste of resources. We tried one one field day and in addition to wind problems, after buying all that expensive helium, some kid with a BB gun came along and shot it down! Stuart K5KVH _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Lanier, Robert
In a message dated 3/27/06 5:31:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes: > The problem with balloon lofted antennas is you cannot often have the > balloons only go straight up. A special type of aerodynamic balloon, called a kitoon, was developed to deal with the problem. Bacically it was a blimp with inflated wings. In still air it was a balloon, but when the wind blew it would turn itself into the windd (reducing drag) and the wings would provide some lift, helping to reduce the lean-over effect. WW2 military thing, IIRC. They used hydrogen instead of helium, Made the hydrogen in a chemical process involving water and a dry chemical. I still prefer a tree and slingshot, or a mast. 73 de Jim, N2EY _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I have a commercial balloon rating (gas and hot air) so it was inevitable
that I would try a balloon antenna. As someone on here mentioned, it is not a practical solution if there is any appreciable wind or there are any hazards such as power lines. However, I have used them to raise a thin 160 meter vertical in the evening when propagation came up and the winds died down. I didn't have much of a radial system and nothing to compare it to, but it worked fine all night long. Helium lifts about 1 ounce (28 grams) per cubic foot so you need to keep the weight of the antenna down. And you don't just want to lift the wire. You want enough additional lift to put a little tension on it. Don't forget the weight of the balloon as well. Obviously you have to lift that as well. I would think if a guy lived in Amarillo and knew Jack B. Kelly he could put up a rotating balloon beam on 160. The alternative would be hydrogen, but it's very tricky to handle and only has about 5% more lifting power. In Europe they race gas balloons with hydrogen, but have to coat the inside with graphite so they don't let the smoke out. In the U.S. we always used helium. You could always tell a European team here in the U.S. because they were covered in sooty-looking graphite. I wouldn't mess with it unless your liability and life insurance are sufficient. Eric KE6US www.ke6us.com -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 3:30 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RE: ridge vent as antenna? In a message dated 3/27/06 5:31:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, [hidden email] writes: > The problem with balloon lofted antennas is you cannot often have the > balloons only go straight up. A special type of aerodynamic balloon, called a kitoon, was developed to deal with the problem. Bacically it was a blimp with inflated wings. In still air it was a balloon, but when the wind blew it would turn itself into the windd (reducing drag) and the wings would provide some lift, helping to reduce the lean-over effect. WW2 military thing, IIRC. They used hydrogen instead of helium, Made the hydrogen in a chemical process involving water and a dry chemical. I still prefer a tree and slingshot, or a mast. 73 de Jim, N2EY _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Ballons and Gas (WAS: ridge vent as antenna?)
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Very interesting Eric!
Of course, along that line of hydrogen safety, the Hindenburg was a HELIUM dirigible. Although the Germans had an excellent safety record with hydrogen, they understood the danger vs. small extra lift from using that gas and the Zeppelin company designed the Hindenburg to use the safer helium gas. Unfortunately, the Nazi party had taken control of the German government by the time the helium was needed and the USA - who had the only supply available - decided not to allow the export of the helium gas to Nazi Germany. So the Hindenburg flew with hydrogen in her lift cells. After all, the Graf Zeppelin had flown over a million miles safely with hydrogen. The Hindenburg herself hundreds of thousand miles with hydrogen in her lift cells before, on her second long voyage of 1937, regrettably flew into history. Makes one wonder what aviation history had been like if she were carrying helium as originally planned... Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of EricJ Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 5:48 PM To: [hidden email]; [hidden email] Subject: RE: [Elecraft] RE: ridge vent as antenna? I have a commercial balloon rating (gas and hot air) so it was inevitable that I would try a balloon antenna. As someone on here mentioned, it is not a practical solution if there is any appreciable wind or there are any hazards such as power lines. However, I have used them to raise a thin 160 meter vertical in the evening when propagation came up and the winds died down. I didn't have much of a radial system and nothing to compare it to, but it worked fine all night long. Helium lifts about 1 ounce (28 grams) per cubic foot so you need to keep the weight of the antenna down. And you don't just want to lift the wire. You want enough additional lift to put a little tension on it. Don't forget the weight of the balloon as well. Obviously you have to lift that as well. I would think if a guy lived in Amarillo and knew Jack B. Kelly he could put up a rotating balloon beam on 160. The alternative would be hydrogen, but it's very tricky to handle and only has about 5% more lifting power. In Europe they race gas balloons with hydrogen, but have to coat the inside with graphite so they don't let the smoke out. In the U.S. we always used helium. You could always tell a European team here in the U.S. because they were covered in sooty-looking graphite. I wouldn't mess with it unless your liability and life insurance are sufficient. Eric KE6US www.ke6us.com -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 3:30 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RE: ridge vent as antenna? In a message dated 3/27/06 5:31:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, [hidden email] writes: > The problem with balloon lofted antennas is you cannot often have the > balloons only go straight up. A special type of aerodynamic balloon, called a kitoon, was developed to deal with the problem. Bacically it was a blimp with inflated wings. In still air it was a balloon, but when the wind blew it would turn itself into the windd (reducing drag) and the wings would provide some lift, helping to reduce the lean-over effect. WW2 military thing, IIRC. They used hydrogen instead of helium, Made the hydrogen in a chemical process involving water and a dry chemical. I still prefer a tree and slingshot, or a mast. 73 de Jim, N2EY _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Ballons and Gas (WAS: ridge vent as antenna?)
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The Helium plant is just a few miles from my qth. Hmmmmm.... I don't think
its very active though, its all but shut down. The local railroad even took up the tracks to the plant a few years ago. One year at N4ZC's place we put up a balloon with helium to hold up a 1/4 vertical for160. It was one of those blimp looking ballons with fins to keep it pointed into the wind. It worked real well. The only real problem that weekend was when the temperature dropped in the evening so did the balloon. But with a 1/4 vertical and 4 raised radials, it sure did play well. Rich - N5ZC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 8:35 PM Subject: [Elecraft] Ballons and Gas (WAS: ridge vent as antenna?) Very interesting Eric! Of course, along that line of hydrogen safety, the Hindenburg was a HELIUM dirigible. Although the Germans had an excellent safety record with hydrogen, they understood the danger vs. small extra lift from using that gas and the Zeppelin company designed the Hindenburg to use the safer helium gas. Unfortunately, the Nazi party had taken control of the German government by the time the helium was needed and the USA - who had the only supply available - decided not to allow the export of the helium gas to Nazi Germany. So the Hindenburg flew with hydrogen in her lift cells. After all, the Graf Zeppelin had flown over a million miles safely with hydrogen. The Hindenburg herself hundreds of thousand miles with hydrogen in her lift cells before, on her second long voyage of 1937, regrettably flew into history. Makes one wonder what aviation history had been like if she were carrying helium as originally planned... Ron AC7AC -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of EricJ Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 5:48 PM To: [hidden email]; [hidden email] Subject: RE: [Elecraft] RE: ridge vent as antenna? I have a commercial balloon rating (gas and hot air) so it was inevitable that I would try a balloon antenna. As someone on here mentioned, it is not a practical solution if there is any appreciable wind or there are any hazards such as power lines. However, I have used them to raise a thin 160 meter vertical in the evening when propagation came up and the winds died down. I didn't have much of a radial system and nothing to compare it to, but it worked fine all night long. Helium lifts about 1 ounce (28 grams) per cubic foot so you need to keep the weight of the antenna down. And you don't just want to lift the wire. You want enough additional lift to put a little tension on it. Don't forget the weight of the balloon as well. Obviously you have to lift that as well. I would think if a guy lived in Amarillo and knew Jack B. Kelly he could put up a rotating balloon beam on 160. The alternative would be hydrogen, but it's very tricky to handle and only has about 5% more lifting power. In Europe they race gas balloons with hydrogen, but have to coat the inside with graphite so they don't let the smoke out. In the U.S. we always used helium. You could always tell a European team here in the U.S. because they were covered in sooty-looking graphite. I wouldn't mess with it unless your liability and life insurance are sufficient. Eric KE6US www.ke6us.com -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 3:30 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RE: ridge vent as antenna? In a message dated 3/27/06 5:31:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, [hidden email] writes: > The problem with balloon lofted antennas is you cannot often have the > balloons only go straight up. A special type of aerodynamic balloon, called a kitoon, was developed to deal with the problem. Bacically it was a blimp with inflated wings. In still air it was a balloon, but when the wind blew it would turn itself into the windd (reducing drag) and the wings would provide some lift, helping to reduce the lean-over effect. WW2 military thing, IIRC. They used hydrogen instead of helium, Made the hydrogen in a chemical process involving water and a dry chemical. I still prefer a tree and slingshot, or a mast. 73 de Jim, N2EY _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Ron D'Eau Claire-2
No question, hydrogen can be handled safely. I didn't make it clear, but I
was recommending against a ham generating their own hydrogen for a 160m balloon. Given the cost of helium and the flinty skin of most hams, some would try it. The Europeans race gas balloons all the time without any drama, but they know what they are doing. It used to cost us about $1600 to fill a 30,000 cu. ft balloon with helium and it's good for only one flight. Someone else mentioned one of the problems with a gas balloon as an antenna. As it cools, the gas contracts, and with less volume, it descends, so you need enough excess helium to assure it will still have enough lift when it contracts. In the manned balloons, we left the appendix at the bottom wide open. Of course the helium wants to stay in the balloons since it rises so there is no problem with it being open. During the day, the gas heats up and instead of expanding the balloon and risking a rupture, it vents out the bottom appendix, but in the evening when it cools and contracts, it sucks air in and contaminates the helium. You compensate by ballasting. That's what limits the flight...eventually the helium is too contaminated to produce enough lift and you are looking for things to throw overboard. That won't happen with a latex balloon that would be sealed at the bottom. Anyway, the expense is a problem, but for the possibility of an outstanding 160m signal in a contest, it might be worth looking into. Keep in mind that it could be a useful way to EXTEND an existing vertical. Since you are only lifting the extension, the size of the balloon and therefore the expense will be less. Eric KE6US www.ke6us.com -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 6:35 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] Ballons and Gas (WAS: ridge vent as antenna?) Very interesting Eric! Of course, along that line of hydrogen safety, the Hindenburg was a HELIUM dirigible. Although the Germans had an excellent safety record with hydrogen, they understood the danger vs. small extra lift from using that gas and the Zeppelin company designed the Hindenburg to use the safer helium gas. Unfortunately, the Nazi party had taken control of the German government by the time the helium was needed and the USA - who had the only supply available - decided not to allow the export of the helium gas to Nazi Germany. So the Hindenburg flew with hydrogen in her lift cells. After all, the Graf Zeppelin had flown over a million miles safely with hydrogen. The Hindenburg herself hundreds of thousand miles with hydrogen in her lift cells before, on her second long voyage of 1937, regrettably flew into history. Makes one wonder what aviation history had been like if she were carrying helium as originally planned... Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Ron D'Eau Claire-2
OK, I'll put on the alternative-history cap for a moment.....
I don't think it would have made much difference in the long term. Lighter-than-air aviation technology was somewhat ahead in the 1930s. But heavier-than-air caught up rapidly, and never looked back. Dirigibles/zeppelins couldn't go high enough to get above bad weather, nor fast enough to outrun/outflank it. Nor could they be made rugged enough to go through bad weather without being so heavy they'd not have much payload. While not needing runways, they needed enormous hangars to protect them from the elements. The main advantage of commercial airliners over surface transportation is speed. Dirigibles weren't fast enough to be competitive with 1930s land transportation - steam trains could do 70-90 mph or so reliably, with little regard for weather, and would go to city centers rather than distant mooring stations. Dirigibles' only real competitive chance was over water, where they were somewhat faster than liners like the Queen Mary, but not nearly as fast as airplanes would become in a decade or two. ----- Recent investigation shows that the real villain in the Hindenburg disaster was the fabric skin - or rather, the highly flammable treatment it received. Modern analysis of the fabric (including some actual samples from the Hindenburg) indicate that the treated fabric could easily be set on fire by static electricity alone. Tests showed the treated fabric would burn fiercely, and spread the fire rapidly, all by itself. Analysis of the movie made of the landing, and eyewitness reports, shows fairly convincingly that a static discharge near the upper vertical stabilizer set the fabric skin on fire, which then spread and burned until it burned through the lift cells containing the hydrogen. IIRC, the Graf Zeppelin did not use the same fabric treatment. If this information was known to the Germans at the time, (and some documents indicate that it was), they'd have reason enough to keep it quiet back then. Better to blame the Hindenburg on the Americans' refusal to sell helium than admit to a flaw in German zeppelin engineering. 73 de Jim, N2EY 'oh, the huge manatee' -----Original Message----- From: Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> Makes one wonder what aviation history had been like if she were carrying helium as originally planned... _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Balloons and Gas (WAS: ridge vent as antenna?)
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Jim, N2EY wrote:
Dirigibles/zeppelins couldn't go high enough to get above bad weather, nor fast enough to outrun/outflank it. Nor could they be made rugged enough to go through bad weather without being so heavy they'd not have much payload... --------------------------------- Ah, but the Zeppelin gave us a bit of technology that serves so well even today: the ever faithful and effective "Zepp" antenna and all its many derivatives! Who can run open wire line to an end-fed dipole without imagining they hear the rumble of the Zeppelin's engines somewhere in the far distance? Airships never went away, of course. They simply became things most folks were afraid to board, thanks to that classic bit of news footage of the Hindenburg's end. Smaller non-rigid airships served in huge numbers in WWII and they've been around ever since doing survey work, hauling heavy equipment and, of course, as moving billboards. Now a few companies are developing modern dirigibles for use in passenger and freight service once again. One such company is here in the Northwest USA. The fact that heavier-than-aircraft provide a rough ride in bad weather has given rise to the mistaken idea that the big lighter-than-airships did too. There was a fellow who made a number of crossings on both the Graf Zeppelin and the Hindenburg who became somewhat famous among Zeppelin travelers. Soon after departure he'd place a fountain pen, balanced on end, on a table in the passenger lounge and take bets on how long it'd stay upright. Frequently the pen was still upright when they tied up at the mooring mast at their destination a day or two later. In really rough weather the big airships were reported to sway gently, but that was all. I suspect that airships, like Morse code, "shortwave" radio and a lot of other technology some folks assume are obsolete will be with us for a long, long time yet. Maybe we'll even get to work an aircraft mobile aboard a real dirigible again one day! Using CW of course... Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I have 20 minutes of right seat time in my logbook in the Goodyear blimp! I
traded a flight in the blimp for some training time in my balloon for the captain. I can tell you the Goodyear blimps are not a smooth ride. They "hobby horse" through the air and there is no more apt description than that. Hi. I have no idea what the big airships were like, and can't confirm or refute the stories. However, because of the relatively slow speeds, they become more a part of a given air mass and move with them where a much faster airplane is more likely to fly into them in a more confrontational manner. Hi. I never operated ham radio from my balloon. As a pilot, you are pretty busy, esp. if you have excited passengers, but I would think it would intrude too much on a wonderful experience to chit chat with someone on the ground. I'm sure it has been done, though. Eric KE6US www.ke6us.com -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 12:08 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Balloons and Gas (WAS: ridge vent as antenna?) Jim, N2EY wrote: Dirigibles/zeppelins couldn't go high enough to get above bad weather, nor fast enough to outrun/outflank it. Nor could they be made rugged enough to go through bad weather without being so heavy they'd not have much payload... --------------------------------- Ah, but the Zeppelin gave us a bit of technology that serves so well even today: the ever faithful and effective "Zepp" antenna and all its many derivatives! Who can run open wire line to an end-fed dipole without imagining they hear the rumble of the Zeppelin's engines somewhere in the far distance? Airships never went away, of course. They simply became things most folks were afraid to board, thanks to that classic bit of news footage of the Hindenburg's end. Smaller non-rigid airships served in huge numbers in WWII and they've been around ever since doing survey work, hauling heavy equipment and, of course, as moving billboards. Now a few companies are developing modern dirigibles for use in passenger and freight service once again. One such company is here in the Northwest USA. The fact that heavier-than-aircraft provide a rough ride in bad weather has given rise to the mistaken idea that the big lighter-than-airships did too. There was a fellow who made a number of crossings on both the Graf Zeppelin and the Hindenburg who became somewhat famous among Zeppelin travelers. Soon after departure he'd place a fountain pen, balanced on end, on a table in the passenger lounge and take bets on how long it'd stay upright. Frequently the pen was still upright when they tied up at the mooring mast at their destination a day or two later. In really rough weather the big airships were reported to sway gently, but that was all. I suspect that airships, like Morse code, "shortwave" radio and a lot of other technology some folks assume are obsolete will be with us for a long, long time yet. Maybe we'll even get to work an aircraft mobile aboard a real dirigible again one day! Using CW of course... Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Balloons and Gas (WAS: ridge vent as antenna?)
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Lucky guy!
I tried several times to get a ride, but no luck. I was told by one of the pilots (about 15 years ago) that best time to scrounge a ride is right after the blimp arrives. They make "test" flights" and usually need some "ballast". I also tried when I went to the Miami area where they were hangered. Again no luck. Fisrt time they weren't flying due to maintenance. Second time, I was told they quit that because of insurance limitations. Guess I'll never get a ride in lighter than aircraft! 73, Sandy W5TVW ----- Original Message ----- From: "EricJ" <[hidden email]> To: "'Ron D'Eau Claire'" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 2:28 PM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Balloons and Gas (WAS: ridge vent as antenna?) | I have 20 minutes of right seat time in my logbook in the Goodyear blimp! I | traded a flight in the blimp for some training time in my balloon for the | captain. I can tell you the Goodyear blimps are not a smooth ride. They | "hobby horse" through the air and there is no more apt description than | that. Hi. I have no idea what the big airships were like, and can't confirm | or refute the stories. However, because of the relatively slow speeds, they | become more a part of a given air mass and move with them where a much | faster airplane is more likely to fly into them in a more confrontational | manner. Hi. | | I never operated ham radio from my balloon. As a pilot, you are pretty busy, | esp. if you have excited passengers, but I would think it would intrude too | much on a wonderful experience to chit chat with someone on the ground. I'm | sure it has been done, though. | | Eric | KE6US | www.ke6us.com | | | | -----Original Message----- | From: [hidden email] | [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire | Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 12:08 PM | To: [hidden email] | Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Balloons and Gas (WAS: ridge vent as antenna?) | | Jim, N2EY wrote: | | Dirigibles/zeppelins couldn't go high enough to get above bad weather, nor | fast enough to outrun/outflank it. Nor could they be made rugged enough to | go through bad weather without being so heavy they'd not have much | payload... | | --------------------------------- | | Ah, but the Zeppelin gave us a bit of technology that serves so well even | today: the ever faithful and effective "Zepp" antenna and all its many | derivatives! Who can run open wire line to an end-fed dipole without | imagining they hear the rumble of the Zeppelin's engines somewhere in the | far distance? | | Airships never went away, of course. They simply became things most folks | were afraid to board, thanks to that classic bit of news footage of the | Hindenburg's end. Smaller non-rigid airships served in huge numbers in WWII | and they've been around ever since doing survey work, hauling heavy | equipment and, of course, as moving billboards. Now a few companies are | developing modern dirigibles for use in passenger and freight service once | again. One such company is here in the Northwest USA. | | The fact that heavier-than-aircraft provide a rough ride in bad weather has | given rise to the mistaken idea that the big lighter-than-airships did too. | There was a fellow who made a number of crossings on both the Graf Zeppelin | and the Hindenburg who became somewhat famous among Zeppelin travelers. Soon | after departure he'd place a fountain pen, balanced on end, on a table in | the passenger lounge and take bets on how long it'd stay upright. Frequently | the pen was still upright when they tied up at the mooring mast at their | destination a day or two later. In really rough weather the big airships | were reported to sway gently, but that was all. | | I suspect that airships, like Morse code, "shortwave" radio and a lot of | other technology some folks assume are obsolete will be with us for a long, | long time yet. Maybe we'll even get to work an aircraft mobile aboard a real | dirigible again one day! Using CW of course... | | Ron AC7AC | | _______________________________________________ | Elecraft mailing list | Post to: [hidden email] | You must be a subscriber to post to the list. | Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): | http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft | | Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm | Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com | _______________________________________________ | Elecraft mailing list | Post to: [hidden email] | You must be a subscriber to post to the list. | Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): | http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft | | Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm | Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com | | | | -- | No virus found in this incoming message. | Checked by AVG Free Edition. | Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.2/294 - Release Date: 3/27/2006 | | _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by N2EY
Ah yes the kitoon. Had heard of it but forgotten. Seared in my memory
instead was two Field Day attempts by my club at balloon antennas, both ending in blow overs. Much overrated as an antenna support. Most balloons of the WX type cannot lift no. 12 antenna wire of a big antenna, or lift it vertically. Of course on a hill as we are, you always have a part of the day windy. The kitoon aims to take the wind and steer the balloon lift so that lay over is not the problem. But then, you are back to the kids and BB guns, too heavy of antennas, and the constant SWR changes as the wire moves around. Required constant retuning, thus losing QSO time in FD. Stuart K5KVH _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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