Elecraft

RFI issues

Classic

List

Threaded

47 messages Options

123

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: RFI issues

Seems like a good reason not to buy one. Which reminds me, do they have a Part 15 label attached? Not that they actually meet Part 15 requirements.

73
Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 21, 2020, at 8:02 PM, hawley, charles j jr <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Keurig Pro Duo 5200 (they leak stuff out when you turn them upside down...)
>
> Jack BMW Motorcycles
> Chuck KE9UW
> [hidden email]
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Feb 21, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> What's the MODEL number??73,Gary K9GS
>> -------- Original message --------From: "hawley, charles j jr" <[hidden email]> Date: 2/21/20 5:08 PM (GMT-06:00) To: [hidden email] Cc: [hidden email], W8JH <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RFI issues This is the newest one that brews a carafe of 10 cups or does a pod into your mug. I too have had others without any noise, but this new one puts a huge sine wave of noise on the panadapter. I have put ferrite on the line cord which don't affect it. I just turn the thing off after brewing...or wait about 5 minutes and the noise goes away. Jack BMW MotorcyclesChuck [hidden email] from my iPad> On Feb 21, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Lyn Norstad <[hidden email]> wrote:> > I've had several of the inexpensive Keurig Pod type, and have never had an issue on any band.> > Kitchen is right next door to the shack, and the pot is on all day.> > Lyn> W0LEN> > > -----Original Message-----> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of hawley, charles j jr> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 2:04 PM> To: W8JH> Cc: [hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RFI issues> > I still love the coffee maker and would buy it again. I just turn it off after the pot or pod is brewed.> > Chuck Jack Hawley > KE9UW> > Sent from my iPhone, cjack > >> On Feb 20, 2020, at 12:12 PM, W8JH <[hidden email]> wrote:>> >> ke9uw wrote>>> We bought a new Keurig coffee maker which does a pot or also the pods. It>>> puts a huge noise out to the ham frequencies. Have to turn it off to get>>> on 80M>> >> That is a serious conflict!>> >> 80m morning greyline without caffeine, people cannot live this way!!>> >> >> >> >> ----->> 73,>> >> Joe, W8JH>> >> K3s, KPA 500, KAT 500 and KX3 happy user.>> -->> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/>> ______________________________________________________________>> Elecraft mailing list>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]>> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>> Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________> Elecraft mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:[hidden email]> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email] list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Lyn WØLEN

Re: RFI issues

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Well, Jim -

If you're going to quote someone, bear in mind that editing what they said
out of context might change the meaning of what they said (you've probably
heard of the C.O.M.A. process used in Bible study).

I said two things:

1) I've had several of the inexpensive Keurig Pod type, and have never had
an issue on any band.

and ...

2) Kitchen is right next door to the shack, and the pot is on all day.

#1 is a response to the RFI issue, but ...

#2 is an indicator that I need to have coffee nearby both for myself and for
others who may be visiting my shack. Stop over the next time you're in
Chicago.

73
Lyn, W0LEN

PS - FWIW, the nearest point of the antenna is probably 50 feet from the
coffee pot. In Chicagoland, all wiring must be in conduits, and both the
kitchen and the shack are on their own circuits. In fact, the only 'home
grown' RFI I am aware of is 1 out of 4 identical HP 24" LED monitors that
puts out a steady carrier on 30 meters.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 1:20 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RFI issues

On 2/21/2020 9:41 AM, Lyn Norstad wrote:
> Kitchen is right next door to the shack, and the pot is on all day.

What matters is distance to antennas, not the shack. The nature of
electrical wiring in your home also matters, because it's that wiring
that radiates any noise produced.

73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Andy Moorwood

Re: RFI issues

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Can we end this thread now please ?

> On Feb 21, 2020, at 5:21 PM, Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> What's the MODEL number??73,Gary K9GS
> -------- Original message --------From: "hawley, charles j jr" <[hidden email]> Date: 2/21/20 5:08 PM (GMT-06:00) To: [hidden email] Cc: [hidden email], W8JH <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RFI issues This is the newest one that brews a carafe of 10 cups or does a pod into your mug. I too have had others without any noise, but this new one puts a huge sine wave of noise on the panadapter. I have put ferrite on the line cord which don't affect it. I just turn the thing off after brewing...or wait about 5 minutes and the noise goes away. Jack BMW MotorcyclesChuck [hidden email] from my iPad> On Feb 21, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Lyn Norstad <[hidden email]> wrote:> > I've had several of the inexpensive Keurig Pod type, and have never had an issue on any band.> > Kitchen is right next door to the shack, and the pot is on all day.> > Lyn> W0LEN> > > -----Original Message-----> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of hawley, charles j jr> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 2:04 PM> To: W8JH> Cc: [hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RFI issues> > I still love the coffee maker and would buy it again. I just turn it off after the pot or pod is brewed.> > Chuck Jack Hawley > KE9UW> > Sent from my iPhone, cjack > >> On Feb 20, 2020, at 12:12 PM, W8JH <[hidden email]> wrote:>> >> ke9uw wrote>>> We bought a new Keurig coffee maker which does a pot or also the pods. It>>> puts a huge noise out to the ham frequencies. Have to turn it off to get>>> on 80M>> >> That is a serious conflict!>> >> 80m morning greyline without caffeine, people cannot live this way!!>> >> >> >> >> ----->> 73,>> >> Joe, W8JH>> >> K3s, KPA 500, KAT 500 and KX3 happy user.>> -->> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/>> ______________________________________________________________>> Elecraft mailing list>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]>> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>> Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________> Elecraft mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:[hidden email]> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email] list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

ke9uw

Re: RFI issues

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

There's a paragraph of slightly raised writing on the bottom...really hard to read, but if I get a chance to turn it over again, I'll check. It's set up for morning right now.

Jack BMW Motorcycles
Chuck KE9UW
[hidden email]

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 21, 2020, at 8:06 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Seems like a good reason not to buy one. Which reminds me, do they have a Part 15 label attached? Not that they actually meet Part 15 requirements.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 21, 2020, at 8:02 PM, hawley, charles j jr <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Keurig Pro Duo 5200 (they leak stuff out when you turn them upside down...)
>>
>> Jack BMW Motorcycles
>> Chuck KE9UW
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>>> On Feb 21, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> What's the MODEL number??73,Gary K9GS
>>> -------- Original message --------From: "hawley, charles j jr" <[hidden email]> Date: 2/21/20 5:08 PM (GMT-06:00) To: [hidden email] Cc: [hidden email], W8JH <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RFI issues This is the newest one that brews a carafe of 10 cups or does a pod into your mug. I too have had others without any noise, but this new one puts a huge sine wave of noise on the panadapter. I have put ferrite on the line cord which don't affect it. I just turn the thing off after brewing...or wait about 5 minutes and the noise goes away. Jack BMW MotorcyclesChuck [hidden email] from my iPad> On Feb 21, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Lyn Norstad <[hidden email]> wrote:> > I've had several of the inexpensive Keurig Pod type, and have never had an issue on any band.> > Kitchen is right next door to the shack, and the pot is on all day.> > Lyn> W0LEN> > > -----Original Message-----> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of hawley, charles j jr> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 2:04 PM> To: W8JH> Cc: [hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RFI issues> > I still love the coffee maker and would buy it again. I just turn it off after the pot or pod is brewed.> > Chuck Jack Hawley > KE9UW> > Sent from my iPhone, cjack > >> On Feb 20, 2020, at 12:12 PM, W8JH <[hidden email]> wrote:>> >> ke9uw wrote>>> We bought a new Keurig coffee maker which does a pot or also the pods. It>>> puts a huge noise out to the ham frequencies. Have to turn it off to get>>> on 80M>> >> That is a serious conflict!>> >> 80m morning greyline without caffeine, people cannot live this way!!>> >> >> >> >> ----->> 73,>> >> Joe, W8JH>> >> K3s, KPA 500, KAT 500 and KX3 happy user.>> -->> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/>> ______________________________________________________________>> Elecraft mailing list>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]>> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>> Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________> Elecraft mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:[hidden email]> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email] list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to [hidden email]
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

Chuck, KE9UW

Jim Brown-10

Re: RFI issues

In reply to this post by Lyn WØLEN

On 2/21/2020 6:12 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:
> In Chicagoland, all wiring must be in conduits, and both the
> kitchen and the shack are on their own circuits. In fact, the only 'home
> grown' RFI I am aware of is 1 out of 4 identical HP 24" LED monitors that
> puts out a steady carrier on 30 meters.

Having lived in Chicago for 42 years and maintained an engineering
consulting practice there for 30 years, and as a former member of IBEW
134, I'm well aware of the conduit requirement. :) Indeed, I had a lot
of conduit installed in the 2-flat I bought on the North Side in 1986.
Which is also why I added the phrase "the nature of electrical wiring in
your home also matters." The large sound systems I designed and
specified used miles of conduit for both power and signal wiring. When I
moved to W6 in 2006, I had the outbuilding that would become my shack
and consulting office wired with EMT before I moved in.

Several other points here. First, RFI is generally NOT conducted on
wiring from one piece of equipment to another, it is radiated by wiring
from one piece of equipment to another. And it is often present on, and
radiated by, the equipment ground conductor (the green wire). Properly
installed conduit (continuous and bonded at every junction and at both
ends) provides shielding, and prevents radiation.

Second, when I operated in Chicago, my noise level was fairly high, with
contributions from my own home, my tenant who lived below me, the homes
that surrounded mine, Newark's corporate office building at the end of
my block, whatever was on power lines, and trains on the Northwestern
track across the street. With that noise level, usually in the range of
S6 to S8, it would be pretty hard to notice yet another noise source 50
ft from my antennas.

73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Lyn WØLEN

Re: RFI issues

Thanks for that, Jim.

We are actually 38 miles due West of the Willis (Sears) tower in Central
Kane County. There is virtually no industrial noise source nearby, but we
do occasionally get interference from medical apparatus.

With my 360 ft. EDZ (cut for 3.5 MHz) strung E-W at about 30 feet, I
normally have a background noise level in the S1 - S2 level, depending on
band and time of day. I have a backup antenna in the attic (modified G5RV)
that does not fare quite as well, but is still useable.

Approximately 10 mi SW of us is a different sort of problem. A commercial
shortwave station has been built and is operating on an experimental basis.
Their plan is to transmit market data over the pole to High Speed Traders in
Europe (milliseconds faster than cable). They are currently licensed on
frequencies on both sides of our 40 meter band, and between our 30 and 20
meter bands. They are using a 25 KW transmitter into an 18 db gain curtain,
with an EIRP of 808 KW. We are located on the edge of their 38º beamwidth.
To date I have only seen them in the region just below 40 meters. To say
they are noticeable would be an understatement.

There are quite a number of similar stations across the country, so I'm sure
others in the group have encountered them as well.

73
Lyn, WØLEN

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2020 12:45 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RFI issues

On 2/21/2020 6:12 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:
> In Chicagoland, all wiring must be in conduits, and both the
> kitchen and the shack are on their own circuits. In fact, the only 'home
> grown' RFI I am aware of is 1 out of 4 identical HP 24" LED monitors that
> puts out a steady carrier on 30 meters.

Having lived in Chicago for 42 years and maintained an engineering
consulting practice there for 30 years, and as a former member of IBEW
134, I'm well aware of the conduit requirement. :) Indeed, I had a lot
of conduit installed in the 2-flat I bought on the North Side in 1986.
Which is also why I added the phrase "the nature of electrical wiring in
your home also matters." The large sound systems I designed and
specified used miles of conduit for both power and signal wiring. When I
moved to W6 in 2006, I had the outbuilding that would become my shack
and consulting office wired with EMT before I moved in.

Several other points here. First, RFI is generally NOT conducted on
wiring from one piece of equipment to another, it is radiated by wiring
from one piece of equipment to another. And it is often present on, and
radiated by, the equipment ground conductor (the green wire). Properly
installed conduit (continuous and bonded at every junction and at both
ends) provides shielding, and prevents radiation.

Second, when I operated in Chicago, my noise level was fairly high, with
contributions from my own home, my tenant who lived below me, the homes
that surrounded mine, Newark's corporate office building at the end of
my block, whatever was on power lines, and trains on the Northwestern
track across the street. With that noise level, usually in the range of
S6 to S8, it would be pretty hard to notice yet another noise source 50
ft from my antennas.

73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: RFI issues

On 2/22/2020 11:59 AM, Lyn Norstad wrote:
> Approximately 10 mi SW of us is a different sort of problem. A commercial
> shortwave station has been built and is operating on an experimental basis.
> Their plan is to transmit market data over the pole to High Speed Traders in
> Europe (milliseconds faster than cable). They are currently licensed on
> frequencies on both sides of our 40 meter band, and between our 30 and 20
> meter bands. They are using a 25 KW transmitter into an 18 db gain curtain,
> with an EIRP of 808 KW.

This is a great example a situation that demands a rig as good as a K3S!
And probably the highest cost version of a K4.

73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

123