Elecraft › [K3]

RTTY Questions

Classic

List

Threaded

29 messages Options

erehm

Re: Fw: RTTY Questions

Rich - Thanks. The was really helpful.

Wayne - Could FSK control be added to ACC2 GPIO (like K3 ACC DIG0) and PTT toggled via the microphone connector, thus both available simultaneously to external RTTY software?

I'm new at this, so apologies if I've proposed something stupid...

/eric, kj7ae

Matt Murphy

Re: Fw: RTTY Questions

Jim wrote: *as long as you take reasonable care to get levels right*

How does one determine the ideal balance of line out volume, line in
sensitivity, sound card output volume, and sound card mic sensitivity?

73,
Matt NQ6N

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 7:02 PM, erehm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Rich - Thanks. The was really helpful.
>
> Wayne - Could FSK control be added to ACC2 GPIO (like K3 ACC DIG0) and PTT
> toggled via the microphone connector, thus both available simultaneously to
> external RTTY software?
>
> I'm new at this, so apologies if I've proposed something stupid...
>
> /eric, kj7ae
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/RTTY-Questions-tp7478189p7482903.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Brown-10

Re: Fw: RTTY Questions

On 4/19/2012 9:11 PM, Matt Murphy wrote:
> How does one determine the ideal balance of line out volume, line in
> sensitivity, sound card output volume, and sound card mic sensitivity?

I've written some stuff up, and will post it when I return from
Visalia. It's pretty easy.

73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Fw: RTTY Questions

In reply to this post by Matt Murphy

Matt,

You take the levels one at a time. Set the K3 Line Out to 9 or 10, then
adjust your soundcard Line in slider so you have good printing on the
screen.

Then out the K3 in TX TEST - set the soundcard Line out (or volume)
slider to about 2/3 of the scale, then adjust the K2 Line in gain to
produce 4 full bars of ALC indication with the 5th bar flickering.

Note that these are one-time settings. Unless something in the setup
changes, there is no need for any additional adjustment.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/20/2012 12:11 AM, Matt Murphy wrote:

> Jim wrote: *as long as you take reasonable care to get levels right*
>
> How does one determine the ideal balance of line out volume, line in
> sensitivity, sound card output volume, and sound card mic sensitivity?
>
> 73,
> Matt NQ6N
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 7:02 PM, erehm<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Rich - Thanks. The was really helpful.
>>
>> Wayne - Could FSK control be added to ACC2 GPIO (like K3 ACC DIG0) and PTT
>> toggled via the microphone connector, thus both available simultaneously to
>> external RTTY software?
>>
>> I'm new at this, so apologies if I've proposed something stupid...
>>
>> /eric, kj7ae
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/RTTY-Questions-tp7478189p7482903.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Bill Frantz

Re: Fw: RTTY Questions

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

With a K3, the audio starts in digital form in the DSP.
Converting it to analog to convert it back to digital for input
to the computer can only introduce distortion.

I'm lobbying Elecraft for a direct digital interface. :-)

Cheers - Bill, AE6JV

On 4/18/12 at 21:54, [hidden email] (Jim Brown) wrote:

>Right, and I've long promoted that concept. BUT -- I've
>recently been comparing several (five so far) outboard A/D
>converters, four models that connect to the computer via USB,
>on that uses Firewire, and I've found that all of them result
>in noticeably more reliable decoding of RTTY and JT65 signals,
>especially weaker signals.

On 4/19/12 at 7:02, [hidden email] (Joe Subich, W4TV) wrote:

>This is because the computer based sound cards - particularly those in
>laptops and netbooks - are so bad. The internal power supplies are
>typically very noisy and the computer main board designers do not take
>care of things like common audio return paths, proper power supply
>bypassing, "pin 1" issues, etc.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | When it comes to the world | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 | around us, is there any choice | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Brown-10

Re: Fw: RTTY Questions

On 4/20/2012 9:36 AM, Bill Frantz wrote:
> With a K3, the audio starts in digital form in the DSP.
> Converting it to analog to convert it back to digital for input
> to the computer can only introduce distortion.
>
> I'm lobbying Elecraft for a direct digital interface.

Yes, but -- there is the issue of the FORMAT of the digital data, both
from the points of view of encoding and of physical interface, which are
likely to be quite different within the radio and the computer, and the
two systems must be able to talk to each other. Given that there are
many low cost A/D -- D/A converter/interfaces on the market that work
fine, that's a wheel that Elecraft does not need to invent.

73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Raymond Sills

Re: Fw: RTTY Questions

Plus... if the audio levels are properly set, the distortion levels
should be very low. Certainly, the distortions of the RF signal due
to propagation would be worse than the conversion distortions.
If you use the on-board method of sending RTTY or PSK31, you would
get the benefit of not having to convert analog audio to digital, etc.

73 de Ray
K2ULR

On Apr 20, 2012, at 1:09 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 4/20/2012 9:36 AM, Bill Frantz wrote:
>> With a K3, the audio starts in digital form in the DSP.
>> Converting it to analog to convert it back to digital for input
>> to the computer can only introduce distortion.
>>
>> I'm lobbying Elecraft for a direct digital interface.
>
> Yes, but -- there is the issue of the FORMAT of the digital data, both
> from the points of view of encoding and of physical interface,
> which are
> likely to be quite different within the radio and the computer, and
> the
> two systems must be able to talk to each other. Given that there are
> many low cost A/D -- D/A converter/interfaces on the market that work
> fine, that's a wheel that Elecraft does not need to invent.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Bill Frantz

Re: Fw: RTTY Questions

In reply to this post by Tony Estep

I am sorry, but I must disagree with both Jim and Ray on this issue.

Current computer audio interfaces are a fine way to introduce
hams to digital modes and the only way to connect to an analog
radio, but they are not the way to go for best-of-breed digital
mode operation. As with CW and SSB, it would be good to get as
much dynamic range as possible so the computer waterfall can be
used to scan for weak signals even when there are strong signals
nearby. Any distortion added by the interface only makes
decoding harder, and is not desirable for best-of-breed performance.

The issue of format of the digital data seems simple. For
maximum compatibility, the interface should emulate an USB sound
card. (For example, the popular Signalink USB also emulates a
USB sound card and is compatible with most computer software.)
The K3 uses a 24 bit D/A converter for audio, and there are 24
bit USB sound cards, so 24 bits seems to be the minimum level of
support. The K3 DSP is 32 bit floating point, so more bits could
be used if enough computer software support them. There may be
an issue with sample rate differences between the DSP and what
USB sound cards support, but it should be possible to deal with
that issue in the interface.

If there is important software that only works with 16 bit and
not with 24 or greater bit sound cards, then it may be necessary
to have a configuration option, but it would reduce dynamic
range, which is one of the most important benefits of a direct interface.

I admit I have not paid too much attention to the internal K3
decoders, but in my brief try I had difficulty decoding weak
PSK31 signals. I might be able to improve with more practice,
but there are some features available with my computer software,
cocoaModem, I have grown to like that aren't available on the K3:

0.1 Hz tuning increment
Automatic record of an entire rag-chew QSO for summarizing in
the logbook.
More digital modes. E.g. my only Puerto Rico QSO is on PSK63.

[Sorry I don't have USB sound card references. I'm processing
email offline.]

Cheers - Bill, AE6JV

On 4/20/12 at 10:09, [hidden email] (Jim Brown) wrote:

On 4/20/12 at 11:02, [hidden email] (Ray Sills) wrote:

>Plus... if the audio levels are properly set, the distortion
>levels should be very low. Certainly, the distortions of the
>RF signal due to propagation would be worse than the
>conversion distortions.
>If you use the on-board method of sending RTTY or PSK31, you
>would get the benefit of not having to convert analog audio to
>digital, etc.
>
>73 de Ray
>K2ULR

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | I like the farmers' market | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 | because I can get fruits and | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | vegetables without stickers. | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Amanda25650

Re: Fw: RTTY Questions

In reply to this post by erehm