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Re: Arecibo antenna collapses

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john@kk9a.com

Re: Arecibo antenna collapses

I concur, it is sad that Arecibo will not be rebuilt. The director of
operations is WP3R. I worked him in the Sweepstakes contest a couple
of weeks ago.

John KK9A

Michael Walker va3mw wrote:

Sorry, not funny.

Arecibo was a great site and there are a number of Hams that are part of
the dish and who were employed thanks to the installation.

It is a pretty sad day, not only for the loss of technology, but also their
livelihood.

Mike va3mw

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Grant Youngman-2

Re: Arecibo antenna collapses

I suppose the question is why not rebuild it if the capability (or an upgraded capability) remains of consequential value to the scientific community and there is no existing capability that can be cobbled together elsewhere to match it. I don’t know what it would cost, but consider that one Virginia-class submarine costs well over $3B. We build those, even if it is in small numbers. It’s a matter of priorities … and pretty small $$ in the big picture.

Grant NQ5T

> On Dec 2, 2020, at 11:06 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> I concur, it is sad that Arecibo will not be rebuilt. The director of operations is WP3R. I worked him in the Sweepstakes contest a couple of weeks ago.
>
> John KK9A
>
> Michael Walker va3mw wrote:
>
> Sorry, not funny.
>
> Arecibo was a great site and there are a number of Hams that are part of
> the dish and who were employed thanks to the installation.
>
> It is a pretty sad day, not only for the loss of technology, but also their
> livelihood.
>
> Mike va3mw
>
>

AB2E Darrell

Re: Arecibo antenna collapses

It will indeed be interesting to see if Arecibo is rebuilt.
However, the Chinese have built and opened one twice the capacity of Arecibo and it is open to the scientific community of the world.
This was posted by Steve WX2S on another reflector.
73 Darrell AB2E

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02790-3

[https://media.nature.com/lw1024/magazine-assets/d41586-019-02790-3/d41586-019-02790-3_17178388.jpg]<https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02790-3>
Gigantic Chinese telescope opens to astronomers worldwide<https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02790-3>
FAST has superior sensitivity to detect cosmic phenomena, including fast radio bursts and pulsars.
www.nature.com

________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Grant Youngman <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 11:47 AM
To: Elecraft Refl <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Arecibo antenna collapses

I suppose the question is why not rebuild it if the capability (or an upgraded capability) remains of consequential value to the scientific community and there is no existing capability that can be cobbled together elsewhere to match it. I don’t know what it would cost, but consider that one Virginia-class submarine costs well over $3B. We build those, even if it is in small numbers. It’s a matter of priorities … and pretty small $$ in the big picture.

Grant NQ5T

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Arecibo antenna collapses

This is certainly getting way off topic on the Elecraft reflector, but I can’t resist mentioning that I have visited the FAST telescope in Guizhou Province. Here is a brief explanation from my trip notes (we were guests because my wife is an astronomer with many Chinese colleagues). It’s odd that they are creating a tourist destination, since normally such telescopes are located to minimize RFI.

“We were met by a driver from FAST in a Honda Odyssey for the two-hour drive to Pingtang, China’s self-proclaimed “Astronomy City.” There is a huge amount of new construction, as they try to take advantage of the FAST to create a tourist destination. There are new shops and hotels being built, and on the sides of the roads they even have statues and bas reliefs of famous scientists and scientific instruments. FAST stands for “Five hundred meter Aperture Spherical radio Telescope,” and that’s just what it is – outdoing the 300-meter radio telescope at Arecibo, Puerto Rico by far. It’s in a valley that had a dozen or so homes before they houses were demolished. It’s 500 meters across, and is partly steerable, since the panels can be somewhat deformed by 4,000 actuators pulling on cables that tug on the panels that comprise the reflective surface. The receiving “cabin” is suspended on cables attached to six huge (maybe 350-400 feet tall) towers. So by moving the cabin and pulling on cables, they can apparently track through about 20 degrees, unlike Arecibo, which is fixed in a spherical shape. The actuators that deform the mirror into a parabola are hydraulic and need only pull about a foot and a half or so on each cable. Although it was late, we drove down for a quick look at the telescope, since it wasn’t raining. It’s an unbelievably impressive mechanical construct.

73, andy ae6y

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: AB2E Darrell
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 8:54 AM
To: Elecraft Refl
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Arecibo antenna collapses

I

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Alan Bloom

Re: Arecibo antenna collapses

In reply to this post by john@kk9a.com

On 12/2/2020 9:06 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> I concur, it is sad that Arecibo will not be rebuilt. The director of
> operations is WP3R. I worked him in the Sweepstakes contest a couple
> of weeks ago.

Yes, I met Sr. Vazquez WP3R when I visited Arecibo during a bicycle tour
5 years ago. A really nice guy. He gave me a guided tour of the facility:

http://n1al.net/bike/pr_tour/day11.htm

So sad that the Arecibo dish is no more!

Alan N1AL

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k6dgw

Re: Arecibo antenna collapses

In reply to this post by Grant Youngman-2

"A billion here, a billion there ... pretty soon you're talking about
real money."

Everett M. Dirksen [SK]
Senator

I believe there's a larger [and newer] one in China. Andy's [AE6Y] wife
is an astronomer and astrophysicist and I she mentioned it in a really
cool presentation to the Northern California Contest Club awhile back.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 12/2/2020 8:47 AM, Grant Youngman wrote:
> I suppose the question is why not rebuild it if the capability (or an upgraded capability) remains of consequential value to the scientific community and there is no existing capability that can be cobbled together elsewhere to match it. I don’t know what it would cost, but consider that one Virginia-class submarine costs well over $3B. We build those, even if it is in small numbers. It’s a matter of priorities … and pretty small $$ in the big picture.
>
> Grant NQ5T
>

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Arecibo antenna collapses

Indeed they do: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02790-3 <https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02790-3>

73, Bill-AK5X

> On Dec 2, 2020, at 11:56 AM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> "A billion here, a billion there ... pretty soon you're talking about real money."
>
> Everett M. Dirksen [SK]
> Senator
>
> I believe there's a larger [and newer] one in China. Andy's [AE6Y] wife is an astronomer and astrophysicist and I she mentioned it in a really cool presentation to the Northern California Contest Club awhile back.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 12/2/2020 8:47 AM, Grant Youngman wrote:
>> I suppose the question is why not rebuild it if the capability (or an upgraded capability) remains of consequential value to the scientific community and there is no existing capability that can be cobbled together elsewhere to match it. I don’t know what it would cost, but consider that one Virginia-class submarine costs well over $3B. We build those, even if it is in small numbers. It’s a matter of priorities … and pretty small $$ in the big picture.
>>
>> Grant NQ5T
>>
>
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Kevin Cozens-2

[OT] Re: Arecibo antenna collapses

In reply to this post by john@kk9a.com

On 2020-12-02 11:06 a.m., [hidden email] wrote:
> I concur, it is sad that Arecibo will not be rebuilt.
I just saw the pictures of it on the BBC website. It looks like a complete
write off based on the posted image.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55147973

--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/ | "Nerds make the shiny things that
https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |
#include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
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David Woolley (E.L)

Re: Arecibo antenna collapses

In reply to this post by AB2E Darrell

Arecibo was steerable by moving the feed point. They compensated for
spherical aberration by using a travelling wave antenna for the feed,
and later by using a series of sub-reflectors, the latter in the
gondola. The spherical aberration is independent of pointing direction,
which, I believe, is why they went for a spherical, rather than a
parabolic, shape.

--
David Woolley

On 02/12/2020 17:22, Andrew Faber wrote:
> So by moving the cabin and pulling on cables, they can apparently track through about 20 degrees, unlike Arecibo, which is fixed in a spherical shape.

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Wes Stewart-2

Re: Arecibo antenna collapses

In reply to this post by Grant Youngman-2

Did they show you the transmitter?

Wes N7WS

On 12/2/2020 10:22 AM, Andrew Faber via Elecraft wrote:
> This is certainly getting way off topic on the Elecraft reflector, but I can’t resist mentioning that I have visited the FAST telescope in Guizhou Province. Here is a brief explanation from my trip notes (we were guests because my wife is an astronomer with many Chinese colleagues). It’s odd that they are creating a tourist destination, since normally such telescopes are located to minimize RFI.
>
> “We were met by a driver from FAST in a Honda Odyssey for the two-hour drive to Pingtang, China’s self-proclaimed “Astronomy City.” There is a huge amount of new construction, as they try to take advantage of the FAST to create a tourist destination. There are new shops and hotels being built, and on the sides of the roads they even have statues and bas reliefs of famous scientists and scientific instruments. FAST stands for “Five hundred meter Aperture Spherical radio Telescope,” and that’s just what it is – outdoing the 300-meter radio telescope at Arecibo, Puerto Rico by far. It’s in a valley that had a dozen or so homes before they houses were demolished. It’s 500 meters across, and is partly steerable, since the panels can be somewhat deformed by 4,000 actuators pulling on cables that tug on the panels that comprise the reflective surface. The receiving “cabin” is suspended on cables attached to six huge (maybe 350-400 feet tall) towers. So by moving the cabin and pulling on cables, they can apparently track through about 20 degrees, unlike Arecibo, which is fixed in a spherical shape. The actuators that deform the mirror into a parabola are hydraulic and need only pull about a foot and a half or so on each cable. Although it was late, we drove down for a quick look at the telescope, since it wasn’t raining. It’s an unbelievably impressive mechanical construct.
>
> 73, andy ae6y

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w4tg

Re: Arecibo antenna collapses

There is also the Square kilometer array radio telescope:
https://www.skatelescope.org/

It could be ready to operate before the decade is out and is even bigger.

- frank
W4TG

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 7:03 PM Wes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Did they show you the transmitter?
>
> Wes N7WS
>
>
> On 12/2/2020 10:22 AM, Andrew Faber via Elecraft wrote:
> > This is certainly getting way off topic on the Elecraft reflector, but I
> can’t resist mentioning that I have visited the FAST telescope in Guizhou
> Province. Here is a brief explanation from my trip notes (we were guests
> because my wife is an astronomer with many Chinese colleagues). It’s odd
> that they are creating a tourist destination, since normally such
> telescopes are located to minimize RFI.
> >
> > “We were met by a driver from FAST in a Honda Odyssey for the two-hour
> drive to Pingtang, China’s self-proclaimed “Astronomy City.” There is a
> huge amount of new construction, as they try to take advantage of the FAST
> to create a tourist destination. There are new shops and hotels being
> built, and on the sides of the roads they even have statues and bas reliefs
> of famous scientists and scientific instruments. FAST stands for “Five
> hundred meter Aperture Spherical radio Telescope,” and that’s just what it
> is – outdoing the 300-meter radio telescope at Arecibo, Puerto Rico by
> far. It’s in a valley that had a dozen or so homes before they houses were
> demolished. It’s 500 meters across, and is partly steerable, since the
> panels can be somewhat deformed by 4,000 actuators pulling on cables that
> tug on the panels that comprise the reflective surface. The receiving
> “cabin” is suspended on cables attached to six huge (maybe 350-400 feet
> tall) towers. So by moving the cabin and pulling on cables, they can
> apparently track through about 20 degrees, unlike Arecibo, which is fixed
> in a spherical shape. The actuators that deform the mirror into a parabola
> are hydraulic and need only pull about a foot and a half or so on each
> cable. Although it was late, we drove down for a quick look at the
> telescope, since it wasn’t raining. It’s an unbelievably impressive
> mechanical construct.
> >
> > 73, andy ae6y
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Peter Hall

Re: Arecibo antenna collapses

Frank,

I was the foundation project engineer for the Square Kilometre Array (which your URL refers to), as well as leading much of the effort to get the SKA pathfinders on the ground here in Western Australia. As you know, there's a complementary section of the Telescope in South Africa. Naturally we're all excited about the prospects of the SKA, with the pathfinders having already done much good work. However, despite many advances in signal processing over the years there is still a place for very large single aperture telescopes, such as the Chinese FAST instrument and (formerly) Arecibo. I might add that a good deal of the impetus for FAST came from the Chinese participation in the SKA consortium, a body in which the US originally participated but later withdrew from. While the millions of dollars do indeed mount up, the direct benefits and spin-offs from astronomy are substantial, even putting aside the basic science outcomes. I certainly hope the US is able to continue on its distinguished path in radio astronomy and, SKA and FAST aside, there are many other prospects - on and off-shore - for ensuring that happens. Like all science, though, it relies on the enlightened being able to spread the good word!

73, Peter (VK6HP).

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Frank Stein
Sent: Thursday, 3 December 2020 10:20 AM
To: Wes <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Arecibo antenna collapses

There is also the Square kilometer array radio telescope:
https://secure-web.cisco.com/12MAQQcd67xMePXjKd5h8T5I3McR14SDT4pj4Zx1A9cA08lv5nb8kOz0ZNAvZX7GbXyBQ-YSj_PmhDxNs3AlPdEx8-DL3FE-ZfPRtfBQwb6L5l06oidXgV_pudn0RjC4twig28CEn5qf9qqWWAey1azWK0TGwqHtIzASG3YBZhyJ-xrGUpz2x6sMGYKEWlg0qj-bHsWpA0lzPav6HAYtn9zFUmFBkDedjsZ5VSdPKmJeEKouXEzLAHbNJ_HnJ6LqHZQDTDJ7jLRyZutzV23lOI6A3jj4Mcbuab07BQrN0VV-6bCdnPvNpZNDWRFczzGu-F1fGlvlfXCGhCTigYwsyERaQLafgwrCJVuKdKww-6uFBy9lftPLhRazSzlCZX7--hRyXLmaD4auG6WsEz1YUxd9moALrCA-7mNSRynjOZrLRm0AKYjyi5G0v7yfYkN9D_D79Bn8paF0SbEa7S7Y3i8zAevBzseCNeDmzNNp7EaU/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.skatelescope.org%2F

It could be ready to operate before the decade is out and is even bigger.

- frank
W4TG

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 7:03 PM Wes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Did they show you the transmitter?
>
> Wes N7WS
>
>
> On 12/2/2020 10:22 AM, Andrew Faber via Elecraft wrote:
> > This is certainly getting way off topic on the Elecraft reflector,
> > but I
> can’t resist mentioning that I have visited the FAST telescope in
> Guizhou Province. Here is a brief explanation from my trip notes (we
> were guests because my wife is an astronomer with many Chinese
> colleagues). It’s odd that they are creating a tourist destination,
> since normally such telescopes are located to minimize RFI.
> >
> > “We were met by a driver from FAST in a Honda Odyssey for the
> > two-hour
> drive to Pingtang, China’s self-proclaimed “Astronomy City.” There is
> a huge amount of new construction, as they try to take advantage of
> the FAST to create a tourist destination. There are new shops and
> hotels being built, and on the sides of the roads they even have
> statues and bas reliefs of famous scientists and scientific
> instruments. FAST stands for “Five hundred meter Aperture Spherical
> radio Telescope,” and that’s just what it is – outdoing the 300-meter
> radio telescope at Arecibo, Puerto Rico by far. It’s in a valley that
> had a dozen or so homes before they houses were demolished. It’s 500
> meters across, and is partly steerable, since the panels can be
> somewhat deformed by 4,000 actuators pulling on cables that tug on the
> panels that comprise the reflective surface. The receiving “cabin” is
> suspended on cables attached to six huge (maybe 350-400 feet
> tall) towers. So by moving the cabin and pulling on cables, they can
> apparently track through about 20 degrees, unlike Arecibo, which is
> fixed in a spherical shape. The actuators that deform the mirror into
> a parabola are hydraulic and need only pull about a foot and a half or
> so on each cable. Although it was late, we drove down for a quick
> look at the telescope, since it wasn’t raining. It’s an unbelievably
> impressive mechanical construct.
> >
> > 73, andy ae6y
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]

Dick Dickinson

Re: Arecibo antenna collapses

In reply to this post by john@kk9a.com

There is also 'talk of' an ~kilometer diameter dish in a crater on the far
side of the moon. That seems like a lot more fun than going rock hunting.

Kind regards,

Dick - KA5KKT

Frank,

I was the foundation project engineer for the Square Kilometer Array (which
your URL refers to), as well as leading much of the effort to get the SKA
pathfinders on the ground here in Western Australia. As you know, there's a
complementary section of the Telescope in South Africa. Naturally we're all
excited about the prospects of the SKA, with the pathfinders having already
done much good work. However, despite many advances in signal processing
over the years there is still a place for very large single aperture
telescopes, such as the Chinese FAST instrument and (formerly) Arecibo. I
might add that a good deal of the impetus for FAST came from the Chinese
participation in the SKA consortium, a body in which the US originally
participated but later withdrew from. While the millions of dollars do
indeed mount up, the direct benefits and spin-offs from astronomy are
substantial, even putting aside the basic science outcomes. I certainly
hope the US is able to continue on its distinguished path in radio astronomy
and, SKA and FAST aside, there are many other prospects - on and off-shore -
for ensuring that happens. Like all science, though, it relies on the
enlightened being able to spread the good word!

73, Peter (VK6HP).

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Frank Scolaro

Re: Arecibo antenna collapses

Sounds like a Pink Floyd song...

Frank W2YK

On 12/3/2020 9:02 AM, Dick Dickinson wrote:

>
>
> There is also 'talk of' an ~kilometer diameter dish in a crater on the far
> side of the moon. That seems like a lot more fun than going rock hunting.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Dick - KA5KKT
>
>
>
>
>
> Frank,
>
>
>
> I was the foundation project engineer for the Square Kilometer Array (which
> your URL refers to), as well as leading much of the effort to get the SKA
> pathfinders on the ground here in Western Australia. As you know, there's a
> complementary section of the Telescope in South Africa. Naturally we're all
> excited about the prospects of the SKA, with the pathfinders having already
> done much good work. However, despite many advances in signal processing
> over the years there is still a place for very large single aperture
> telescopes, such as the Chinese FAST instrument and (formerly) Arecibo. I
> might add that a good deal of the impetus for FAST came from the Chinese
> participation in the SKA consortium, a body in which the US originally
> participated but later withdrew from. While the millions of dollars do
> indeed mount up, the direct benefits and spin-offs from astronomy are
> substantial, even putting aside the basic science outcomes. I certainly
> hope the US is able to continue on its distinguished path in radio astronomy
> and, SKA and FAST aside, there are many other prospects - on and off-shore -
> for ensuring that happens. Like all science, though, it relies on the
> enlightened being able to spread the good word!
>
>
>
> 73, Peter (VK6HP).
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>