Re: Bluetooth hands free interface (AWUI)

[Fred Townsend]

Dave I think you raise some very good points. The need for an Amateur
Wireless User Interface (AWUI) is a great one. Note I did not say blue tooth
for good reason.

Bluetooth is full duplex where clearly a half-duplex solution is needed.
Before you say you could use VOX think about the portable environment where
you can't control the noise around you. Spectrum pollution brought to by the
auto horn, the baby crying, and audible aids for the blind.

If you want to see how not to do amateur Bluetooth (ABluetooth) look no
further than Yaesu. Both stereo and monaural interfaces are offered for the
FTM-350. Since it has two separate receivers a stereo interface makes a lot
of sense. However their BH-1A (stereo) interface only works in stereo when
listening to the commercial FM broadcast band! For the ham bands you need to
use the BH-2A monaural interface. Thank you Elecraft for figuring out a
stereo headset can be of great value in the ham bands. Furthermore when the
cost of the BU-1 (Bluetooth) option and the headset is combined you have a
gold plated option that doesn't even do what you want it to do. Oh, one more
thing. Look at the Yaesu headset model numbers. The stereo is a  dash 1 and
the monaural a dash 2. I hope that was mentioned on that marketing guy's
performance review.

So how do you go about creating a better wireless interface? Sure it's sexy
to leverage chipsets off the high volume applications like cell phone
Bluetooth. I always like it when I can use a chip someone else has paid to
develop. Maybe we should be looking at Zigbee chipset rather than Bluetooth.
The wider bandwidth could be used to provide full remote control of the rig.
At a minimum then provide the functions available on many of the DTMF
microphones... Up/Down frequency, etc. Make the interface two parts so you
can put the PTT interface on a belt clip. You could have a plug-in for a leg
mounted key too. Don't make it as good as. Make it better. How cool to say
you are using an Ah woo ie (AWUI).

de Fred, AE6QL

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave New, N8SBE
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 10:24 AM
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Bluetooth handsfree interface [was: KX3 netbook]

Actually, a bluetooth interface, especially for headset use, is a serious
consideration.

Most states have enacted a patchwork of anti-cellphone laws that to a
greater or lesser degree adversely impact amateur (and other) radio
operators.  The purpose of this comment is NOT to start a thread on whether
or not these various laws have merit.  Rather, it is to set the background
for a request to support handsfree usage of frankly, any of the phone rigs
that Elecraft markets.

There is a 3rd party that markets a bolt-on system to use with most any rig,
but it is pricey (several hundred dollars) and clumsy (it seems that NO ONE
makes a decent bluetooth headset for PTT operators).

And that turns out to be the real challenge.  If someone could design a
decent affordable bluetooth headset with a reasonable PTT mechanism, I
believe the radio world would beat a path to your door.  "Reasonable"
DOES NOT mean having to push a button on the ear piece.

My apologies if this has been hashed to death on here before.  I'm about a
year behind reading all the older email on this list.

73,-- Dave, N8SBE


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[Dave New, N8SBE]

Fred,

Thanks for your insights on this subject (AWUI).

A new twist in bluetooth is BLE (bluetooth low energy).  Likely subject
to the same limitations as regular bluetooth, but promises to be
accommodated in low-power devices that regular bluetooth power levels
would quickly drain.

The only example of a product currently using BLE that I know of is a
heart rate monitor for folks that are exercising.  The signal from the
chest band is picked up by a bluetooth-equipped smartphone and piped
into a app that tracks your workouts.  There are complaints from users,
though, that the BLE signal doesn't penetrate their bodies -- if they
put their smartphone in their back pouch when bicycling, for instance,
their body blocks the signal.

Might be OK, though, for headphone/headset applications.

TI has a BLE mini development kit CC2540, which is sitting on my office
desk.  I've not had the time to play with it, yet. Comes with
programming cables, etc., so you can experiment with the technology.

73,

-- Dave, N8SBE

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Bluetooth hands free interface (AWUI)
> From: "Fred Townsend" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Fri, June 03, 2011 4:04 pm
> To: "'Dave New, N8SBE'" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>
>
>
> Dave I think you raise some very good points. The need for an Amateur
> Wireless User Interface (AWUI) is a great one. Note I did not say blue tooth
> for good reason.
>
> Bluetooth is full duplex where clearly a half-duplex solution is needed.
> Before you say you could use VOX think about the portable environment where
> you can't control the noise around you. Spectrum pollution brought to by the
> auto horn, the baby crying, and audible aids for the blind.
>
> If you want to see how not to do amateur Bluetooth (ABluetooth) look no
> further than Yaesu. Both stereo and monaural interfaces are offered for the
> FTM-350. Since it has two separate receivers a stereo interface makes a lot
> of sense. However their BH-1A (stereo) interface only works in stereo when
> listening to the commercial FM broadcast band! For the ham bands you need to
> use the BH-2A monaural interface. Thank you Elecraft for figuring out a
> stereo headset can be of great value in the ham bands. Furthermore when the
> cost of the BU-1 (Bluetooth) option and the headset is combined you have a
> gold plated option that doesn't even do what you want it to do. Oh, one more
> thing. Look at the Yaesu headset model numbers. The stereo is a  dash 1 and
> the monaural a dash 2. I hope that was mentioned on that marketing guy's
> performance review.
>
> So how do you go about creating a better wireless interface? Sure it's sexy
> to leverage chipsets off the high volume applications like cell phone
> Bluetooth. I always like it when I can use a chip someone else has paid to
> develop. Maybe we should be looking at Zigbee chipset rather than Bluetooth.
> The wider bandwidth could be used to provide full remote control of the rig.
> At a minimum then provide the functions available on many of the DTMF
> microphones... Up/Down frequency, etc. Make the interface two parts so you
> can put the PTT interface on a belt clip. You could have a plug-in for a leg
> mounted key too. Don't make it as good as. Make it better. How cool to say
> you are using an Ah woo ie (AWUI).
>
> de Fred, AE6QL
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave New, N8SBE
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 10:24 AM
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Bluetooth handsfree interface [was: KX3 netbook]
>
> Actually, a bluetooth interface, especially for headset use, is a serious
> consideration.
>
> Most states have enacted a patchwork of anti-cellphone laws that to a
> greater or lesser degree adversely impact amateur (and other) radio
> operators.  The purpose of this comment is NOT to start a thread on whether
> or not these various laws have merit.  Rather, it is to set the background
> for a request to support handsfree usage of frankly, any of the phone rigs
> that Elecraft markets.
>
> There is a 3rd party that markets a bolt-on system to use with most any rig,
> but it is pricey (several hundred dollars) and clumsy (it seems that NO ONE
> makes a decent bluetooth headset for PTT operators).
>
> And that turns out to be the real challenge.  If someone could design a
> decent affordable bluetooth headset with a reasonable PTT mechanism, I
> believe the radio world would beat a path to your door.  "Reasonable"
> DOES NOT mean having to push a button on the ear piece.
>
> My apologies if this has been hashed to death on here before.  I'm about a
> year behind reading all the older email on this list.
>
> 73,-- Dave, N8SBE

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[PTA_ABD]

Some smart guy could figure out a PTT mechanism keyed by dropping your head a bit ... sort of like a nod. Mercury switch?

WB2ABD

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[Grant Youngman]

How about wiggling your ears?

Problem with a head nod is that if you fall asleep (or "nod off") you might key up.  Maybe you could shake your head quickly -- but in a rapid conversation someone's bound to think you're having seizure and call 911.  Or if you actually have seizure, you might key up :-)

Grant/NQ5T



Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 3, 2011, at 10:40 PM, "PTA_ABD" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Some smart guy could figure out a PTT mechanism keyed by dropping your head a bit ... sort of like a nod. Mercury switch?
>
>
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