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Re: Elecraft Digest, Vol 159, Issue 26

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Dick-4

Re: Elecraft Digest, Vol 159, Issue 26

And at age 78+, I hope to own a K3s one day. I love what this team has done,
their engineering is second to none, and customer service as I read is
superb. I read the forum every day, hoping one day a little break will come
my way and I will own this great transceiver.
When Heathkit was alive and well, I built many of their kits, including
their first Digital Color TV. Maybe one day before I go SK, I will get to
build my K3s

73, W1REJ / Dick

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 4:27 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Elecraft Digest, Vol 159, Issue 26

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: K3S Package Discounts (WILLIE BABER)
2. Re: K3S Package Discounts (Clay Autery)
3. Re: OT K3S Package Discounts (Clay Autery)
4. Re: K3S Package Discounts (Neil Zampella)
5. Re: K3S Package Discounts (Don Wilhelm)
6. Re: Fwd: Re: K3 SHUTTING DOWN (Don Wilhelm)
7. Re: Fwd: Re: K3 SHUTTING DOWN (Colin)
8. Re: K3S Package Discounts (Walter Underwood)
9. Re: Do not sign /QRP (W7BRS Jeff Wandling)
10. Unsubscribe (Bill Parris)
11. Re: K3S Package Discounts (Bob McGraw K4TAX)
12. Is it just me or is 6 meters hotter than usual? (Wayne Burdick)
13. Re: Do not sign /QRP (WP4CW)
14. K3S Package Discounts (John AE5X)
15. Re: K3S Package Discounts (EUGENE GABRY)
16. Re: K3S Package Discounts (Clay Autery)
17. Re: K3S Package Discounts (Wayne Burdick)
18. Re: K3S Package Discounts (Nicklas Johnson)
19. Re: Is it just me or is 6 meters hotter than usual? (Fred Jensen)
20. Re: Is it just me or is 6 meters hotter than usual? (Jim Brown)
21. Re: K3S Package Discounts (Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT)
22. Re: K3S Package Discounts (Fred Jensen)
23. Re: K3S Package Discounts (Don Wilhelm)
24. Re: K3S Package Discounts (Barry Baines)
25. Re: K3S Package Discounts (Raymond Sills)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 15:17:29 +0000 (UTC)
From: WILLIE BABER <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>, Bill W4ZV <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I imagine that many persons wanting K3/K3s have one, and so sales may not be
as robust as a result. The many improvements over time have created a mature
radio--and all essential improvements can be made to an early K3 (same with
the K2). I appreciate Elecraft for this approach to building radios.
However, this does mean that many of us are using aging K3s that work just
as well as the new K3s. I have two K3 radios (so2r), one is about nine
years older than the other one but they are both essentially the same.

It does seem that the prices associated with adding more options to the
basic radio is different from the original sales philosophy of Elecraft: a
top performing radio at a price that is lower because you buy only what you
need and you can save even more by assembling it yourself.

This still applies but not as well as it did with the original K3, first
produced some years ago however!

I never thought of Elecraft as an inexpensive radio (it looked inexpensive
if you purchased the basic kit and nothing else); rather, I could see the
savings in purchasing only what I wanted but still had the performance and
I/O for the future.

Finally, maintaining the K3 is far less expensive (compared to other radios)
because many of us can do minor repair ourselves, with instructions provided
by Elecraft technicians.

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 7/29/17, Bill W4ZV <[hidden email]> wrote:

Subject: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
To: [hidden email]
Date: Saturday, July 29, 2017, 5:50 AM

http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3.htm#K3SPkg

I still question the wisdom of
bundling the the preamp, USB, 630m
capabilities, etc into the K3S.? This went
against Elecraft's original
philosophy
of keeping base price low and choosing only the options we
really
wanted.? This resulted in inflating
the base price which put it out of reach
for
many folks and further away from competing products
(IC-7300, Kenwood
590 and Flex 6300).? That
must be hurting sales resulting in discounting.

A viable option is to buy a
recent used K3 and sell/purchase options to
configure it as you want.? Basic K3 prices are
in the $1500 making this a
viable
alternative IMHO.

73,?
Bill? W4ZV

--
View this
message in context:
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from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:39:28 -0500
From: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

You do realize that:

1) You will see a disproportionate number of "issues" related posts on a
SUPPORT reflector versus the actual issue to total population ratio.
Right? IAW... May LOOK like there are a lot of issues.... but your are
looking at the place where everyone with issues posts... NOT seeing a
representative sample IAW.
2) The POINT of a modular system is so you can a) get only what you
want/need, and b) get what you can afford now and add options later.
This is a proven approach allowing folks (like me for instance) to
"drive a Cadillac" when the budget says economy car. You can start with
a 10 W K3s kit and build it up as funds present... OR you can do like me
and hit the ground running with a fully loaded kit (sans 2nd receiver
and 2M).
3) If you want flashy looks or flashy looks is high on your priority
list, then there are boxes you can buy that flash and go bing. Elecraft
builds radios that work, go to the field, and perform at the very top of
the game.

I'd sacrifice my left arm, right nut, and fight you "tooth and nail"
before I gave up my K3S.

Try getting this level of performance AND support out of any of the
off-shore companies... Try getting most any other company to do
hardware and performance updates and make them available at a reasonable
price for YOU to install...

Just hope you will investigate further... Fact is, I seldom even look
at the gear unless I am in the field... I run it through Win4K3Suite,
HRD modules, et al on one monitor ... Have the P3 on another big
monitor Nice mic on an overhead boom... Only thing on my desktop is my
mouse, key, and keyboard...

73,

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 7/29/2017 8:59 AM, Thom wrote:

> All I can say to Elecraft is if I had the money to buy a K3 with all
> the options, given all the issues people have with them on this list,
> I probably would not even consider buying one.
>
> I was not really all that impressed with the look of it when I saw it
> at Dayton this year. It reminded me of the Kenwood gear, I currently
> own.
>
> 73
>
> Thom KI8W

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:42:14 -0500
From: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Yep... I've never has a SINGLE issue that wasn't caused by incorrect
"operator head-space and timing". Not one.

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 7/29/2017 9:43 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> As one that is involved in other like type reflectors {owner and / or
> moderator}, they are a great source of information, for problem
> solving and learning, specially for those new to ham radio or new to a
> particular radio. If one would just read the manual that would help
> for 75% of the time. RTFM {Read The Full Manual} So in that
> light, most things one reads on the reflectors will appear to be
> issues. I'd always heard "the bit dog yelps the loudest." What's not
> generally seen are the "good ones" being those that are having great
> success with their radio.
>
> Look at product reviews on a place such as Amazon. Same thing. A few
> good ones, which are from satisfied customers. It would be
> interesting to see the percentage of units sold vs. satisfied customer
> posting. At the same time, the percentage sold compared against the
> unsatisfied customers posting. The point being, we are quick to
> write and post a complaint, but rarely do we take time to share good
> results.
>
> For me, the K3S is on top of the performance and feature list. Issues
> and problems on my part at at absolute 0. And I have other radios,
> both USA made and JA made. The K3S tops all of them in quality and
> performance. Zero complaints and Zero problems here {other than
> those where I screw up.}
>
> Most are quick to fault a product and point fingers. I say, "when
> one points a finger, look down, there's likely 3 pointing back at the
> true source of the problem". Someone said they didn't like the looks
> of it. Hey folks, this is radio, not TV. I can't see what you are
> using but I sure can hear it!
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
> K3S s/n 10163

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 11:46:21 -0400
From: Neil Zampella <[hidden email]>
To: "Kevin Stover, AC0H" <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

We used to call it a 'Short between the headsets!' :)

Neil, KN3ILZ

On 7/29/2017 11:07 AM, Kevin Stover, AC0H wrote:

>
> Exactly!!
>
> I'll bet it's more like 95% PEBCAR (Problem Exists Between Chair and
> Radio), Along with the "We Don't Need No Stinking Manuals" attitude
> exhibited by some "real" radio people. We also have the design
> engineers who like to come on and say how they would have done it
> differently or their design is better. OK smart guy...where's YOUR
> Radio company building and selling your self designed wonder of the ages?
>
> It's really funny and a nice comical relief respit from the real world.
>
>
>
> On 7/29/2017 9:43 AM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:
>> Not to point any fingers at ANYONE, but most of the "problems" that
>> show up
>> here are in fact, miss-interpretations, or.....NOT reading the manual
>> in the
>> first place.
>> And I'm as guilty of this as anyone. Hey, I know how to operate a bloody
>> radio right? However, I try not to cry wolf until I have completely
>> proven
>> myself as not the culprit, which means I seldom do post a problem!
>>
>> Another area that can easily be interpreted as a "problem" when
>> scanning the
>> forum is actually with after-market software and/or interfacing with
>> peripheral equipment.
>> If you count the real production/equipment failures vs. "others",
>> I'll bet
>> they're quite low and typical of any quality manufacturer.
>>
>> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>
>>
>

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 12:12:19 -0400
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On the contrary, I think the decision to offer "standard configuration
packages" is a result of customer questions resulting from confusion
about "what options do I need" and much time devoted to pre-sale
communication with prospective customers.

Other manufacturers offer an "all or nothing" package that is their
current model/configuration.

I have witnessed the confusion of many prospective buyers at the
Elecraft booth at many hamfests - there is a lot of confusion about
which options they should include. We endeavor to provide assistance to
customize the option mix to the wants and needs of the customer.

These "standard" packages is a way to allow customers to purchase a K3S
for the type of operating that they will be doing while minimizing that
pre-sale activity.

One can still order additional options even with the pre-defined
packages (and I assume also delete some options). But for the customer
who is not familiar with what each Elecraft option will do for their
operating experience, I believe it is a step in the right direction.

If Elecraft were to follow other manufacturer's footsteps, there would
be a K3S-I, K3S-II and K3S-III designation for each of those bundles,
but note that Elecraft has chosen not to do that. You do not have to
sell your K3S-I to get a K3S-III, just add the options needed to upgrade
it.

That "upgradability" has always been unique at Elecraft. Any K2 can be
upgraded to the electrical equal of a new one, the same goes for the K3
with the addition of the modules included in the K3S (with only a few
minor exceptions).

This is part of the Elecraft customer support philosophy. Note that the
K2 is a 1998 design and is still going strong, and still fully supported.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/29/2017 11:17 AM, WILLIE BABER wrote:
> I imagine that many persons wanting K3/K3s have one, and so sales may not
> be as robust as a result. The many improvements over time have created a
> mature radio--and all essential improvements can be made to an early K3
> (same with the K2). I appreciate Elecraft for this approach to building
> radios. However, this does mean that many of us are using aging K3s that
> work just as well as the new K3s. I have two K3 radios (so2r), one is
> about nine years older than the other one but they are both essentially
> the same.
>

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 12:22:04 -0400
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
To: Colin <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: K3 SHUTTING DOWN
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Colin,

Does the K3 shut down operating into a dummy load when TUNE is selected?
If so, then there is a problem with your K3 - contact support.

If it operates fine into a dummy load in TUNE, then suspect a PA
temperature problem.

It may be that you have a bad PA, but again the folks at K3support can
help you with some checks to determine the real source.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/29/2017 9:40 AM, Colin wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Ignoring the mode in use, into a dummy load the K3 is shutting down at
> power in excess of 40W on tune.
>
> I'm using a 40A PSU and a new factory made power lead. I am beginning
> to suspect the PA.
>

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 17:27:27 +0100
From: Colin <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: K3 SHUTTING DOWN
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Don,

Looks like I'll have to do that as it is happening on TUNE. I was
trying to elimate all the obvious problems first.

73

Colin, G3PSM

On 29/07/2017 17:22, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Colin,
>
> Does the K3 shut down operating into a dummy load when TUNE is
> selected? If so, then there is a problem with your K3 - contact support.
>
> If it operates fine into a dummy load in TUNE, then suspect a PA
> temperature problem.
>
> It may be that you have a bad PA, but again the folks at K3support can
> help you with some checks to determine the real source.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/29/2017 9:40 AM, Colin wrote:
>> Mike,
>>
>> Ignoring the mode in use, into a dummy load the K3 is shutting down
>> at power in excess of 40W on tune.
>>
>> I'm using a 40A PSU and a new factory made power lead. I am
>> beginning to suspect the PA.
>>

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 09:55:00 -0700
From: Walter Underwood <[hidden email]>
To: elecraft <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I agree.

People might expect a simple answer to ?How much does a K3S cost??, but they
get ?It depends? then spend hours trying on the website and this list adding
up lists of options. This is that simple answer. I have no doubt that it
will increase sales, because it decreases the friction of pricing out a K3S.

It would be handy to have the same thing for a fully-loaded KX3, just to
avoid all the sums.

wunder
Walter Underwood
[hidden email]
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Jul 29, 2017, at 9:12 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On the contrary, I think the decision to offer "standard configuration
> packages" is a result of customer questions resulting from confusion about
> "what options do I need" and much time devoted to pre-sale communication
> with prospective customers.
>
> Other manufacturers offer an "all or nothing" package that is their
> current model/configuration.
>
> I have witnessed the confusion of many prospective buyers at the Elecraft
> booth at many hamfests - there is a lot of confusion about which options
> they should include. We endeavor to provide assistance to customize the
> option mix to the wants and needs of the customer.
>
> These "standard" packages is a way to allow customers to purchase a K3S
> for the type of operating that they will be doing while minimizing that
> pre-sale activity.
>
> One can still order additional options even with the pre-defined packages
> (and I assume also delete some options). But for the customer who is not
> familiar with what each Elecraft option will do for their operating
> experience, I believe it is a step in the right direction.
>
> If Elecraft were to follow other manufacturer's footsteps, there would be
> a K3S-I, K3S-II and K3S-III designation for each of those bundles, but
> note that Elecraft has chosen not to do that. You do not have to sell
> your K3S-I to get a K3S-III, just add the options needed to upgrade it.
>
> That "upgradability" has always been unique at Elecraft. Any K2 can be
> upgraded to the electrical equal of a new one, the same goes for the K3
> with the addition of the modules included in the K3S (with only a few
> minor exceptions).
>
> This is part of the Elecraft customer support philosophy. Note that the
> K2 is a 1998 design and is still going strong, and still fully supported.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/29/2017 11:17 AM, WILLIE BABER wrote:
>> I imagine that many persons wanting K3/K3s have one, and so sales may not
>> be as robust as a result. The many improvements over time have created a
>> mature radio--and all essential improvements can be made to an early K3
>> (same with the K2). I appreciate Elecraft for this approach to building
>> radios. However, this does mean that many of us are using aging K3s that
>> work just as well as the new K3s. I have two K3 radios (so2r), one is
>> about nine years older than the other one but they are both essentially
>> the same.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:11:12 -0700
From: W7BRS Jeff Wandling <[hidden email]>
To: Keith Hutt <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Do not sign /QRP
Message-ID:
<CAL3WhfcbBv+BugAVkOTm=S-TExRRXxG9e4AxUj=vkvH8cx=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I always thought it was during the rag chew one would mention the rig.
Then the other station could say "wow all that signal is QRP?". I guess
I've been doing it wrong. Hi hi.

On Friday, July 28, 2017, Keith Hutt <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> So are you saying that a operator who uses a KX2, KX3 is more experienced
> and
> is a more valid contact than say someone using a FT817?.
>
> Because that is just pure arrogance, saying that Elecraft operators are
> the only experienced
> operators in the world.
>
> Oh and yes i use Elecraft KX2, KX3, K3 on a daily basis, and while i think
> they are the finest radios on the market
> and value for money, there are many people out there who are superb
> operators who do not have the financial means
> to use Elecraft.
>
> Regards
>
> Keith G0TSH
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Dan Baker
> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 4:11 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Do not sign /QRP
>
> Yep thats right do not sign /QRP. Sign /KX2 or /KX3. This way an
> experienced operator will know immediately that you are no fool and that
> this is a Q worth pursuing.
>
> 73, Dan KM6CQ
> --
> Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

--
Jeff Wandling <[hidden email]>
DE W7BRS http://dew7brs.blogspot.com

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 13:41:00 -0400
From: "Bill Parris" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] Unsubscribe
Message-ID: <000801d30891$d81ff710$885fe530$@chartermi.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 12:41:21 -0500
From: Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

I purchased my K3S, my first Elecraft product, based on three factors:
Performance, specified configuration as I wanted, and product support.

73

Bob, K4TAX

K3S s/n 10163

On 7/29/2017 11:55 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:

> I agree.
>
> People might expect a simple answer to ?How much does a K3S cost??, but
> they get ?It depends? then spend hours trying on the website and this list
> adding up lists of options. This is that simple answer. I have no doubt
> that it will increase sales, because it decreases the friction of pricing
> out a K3S.
>
> It would be handy to have the same thing for a fully-loaded KX3, just to
> avoid all the sums.
>
> wunder
> Walter Underwood
> [hidden email]
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 11:14:05 -0700
From: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] Is it just me or is 6 meters hotter than usual?
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I?m pretty new to 6 meters. I was expecting very limited activity. But now
that I have an alert set up on dxmaps.com, I?m finding there are multiple
openings every day. There?s an opening right now that includes the west
coast.

Is the propagation better than usual for July?

Unfortunately my antennas for 6 aren?t all that great, and the local noise
level is high, so I?ve been making use of every tool in the K3S toolbox (IF
NB, DSP NB, NR, AFX, narrow filters, diversity, and CW-in-SSB). I?m
considering taking the rig mobile to an RF-quiet location in the Bay Area
next time there?s an opening. I have my eye out for a portable 6-meter beam.

Now know what they mean by ?magic band." Give it a whirl....

73,
Wayne
N6KR

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 11:16:48 -0700
From: WP4CW <[hidden email]>
To: W7BRS Jeff Wandling <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Do not sign /QRP
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I've been at ham since 1972. I've been on qrp since the beginning. My first
transmitter was 100 mw. My added amplifier was 200 mw. The OX2 and PAX by
ICM. Not official but by adding /QRP I was hoping the other party would try
to work me. I never looked at it as legal.
K1, KX2, K3, & K3s. Ted

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2017, at 10:11 AM, W7BRS Jeff Wandling <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> I always thought it was during the rag chew one would mention the rig.
> Then the other station could say "wow all that signal is QRP?". I guess
> I've been doing it wrong. Hi hi.
>
>
>> On Friday, July 28, 2017, Keith Hutt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> So are you saying that a operator who uses a KX2, KX3 is more
>> experienced
>> and
>> is a more valid contact than say someone using a FT817?.
>>
>> Because that is just pure arrogance, saying that Elecraft operators are
>> the only experienced
>> operators in the world.
>>
>> Oh and yes i use Elecraft KX2, KX3, K3 on a daily basis, and while i
>> think
>> they are the finest radios on the market
>> and value for money, there are many people out there who are superb
>> operators who do not have the financial means
>> to use Elecraft.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Keith G0TSH
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Dan Baker
>> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 4:11 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Elecraft] Do not sign /QRP
>>
>> Yep thats right do not sign /QRP. Sign /KX2 or /KX3. This way an
>> experienced operator will know immediately that you are no fool and that
>> this is a Q worth pursuing.
>>
>> 73, Dan KM6CQ
>> --
>> Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
> --
> Jeff Wandling <[hidden email]>
> DE W7BRS http://dew7brs.blogspot.com
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 18:25:47 GMT
From: "John AE5X" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Is this where we segue into the quarterly thread about the upcoming K4 and
KX4? :-)

John AE5X
http://ae5x.blogspot.com/
_____________________________

>I imagine that many persons wanting K3/K3s have one
____________________________________________________________
1 Cup of This (Before Bed) Will "Destroy" Your Nail Fungus
Wellness Above All
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/597cd33ecf339533e74bfst01vuc

------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 13:55:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: EUGENE GABRY <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Well stated Don, This was one of the deciding factors for me when I pulled
the trigger on Elecraft two years ago. I saw the value in being able to add
options along the way as/if, my operating style or conditions changed.
Firmware upgrades and support were the other reason. I wanted a rig "I"
could grow into over time before time ran out on the current technology "of
the day".

73 Gene
N9TF

> On July 29, 2017 at 11:12 AM Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>

>
> That "upgradability" has always been unique at Elecraft. Any K2 can be
> upgraded to the electrical equal of a new one, the same goes for the K3
> with the addition of the modules included in the K3S (with only a few
> minor exceptions).
>
> This is part of the Elecraft customer support philosophy. Note that the
> K2 is a 1998 design and is still going strong, and still fully supported.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR

------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 14:18:30 -0500
From: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Just because they OFFER bundles doesn't mean you can't order a base unit
and a la carte.

After all... they ain't blowing out IC-7300s here. <ear to ear grin>

73,

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 7/29/2017 6:50 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:

> http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3.htm#K3SPkg
>
> I still question the wisdom of bundling the the preamp, USB, 630m
> capabilities, etc into the K3S. This went against Elecraft's original
> philosophy of keeping base price low and choosing only the options we
> really
> wanted. This resulted in inflating the base price which put it out of
> reach
> for many folks and further away from competing products (IC-7300, Kenwood
> 590 and Flex 6300). That must be hurting sales resulting in discounting.
>
> A viable option is to buy a recent used K3 and sell/purchase options to
> configure it as you want. Basic K3 prices are in the $1500 making this a
> viable alternative IMHO.
>
> 73, Bill W4ZV

------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 12:30:39 -0700
From: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Correct. The packages are just a convenience based on past ordering history.

(FYI, we have a detailed features/performance comparison chart of the K3S
vs. IC7300. Email me directly if interested.)

73,
Wayne
N6KR

> On Jul 29, 2017, at 12:18 PM, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Just because they OFFER bundles doesn't mean you can't order a base unit
> and a la carte.
>
> After all... they ain't blowing out IC-7300s here. <ear to ear grin>
>
> 73,
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KY5G
>
> On 7/29/2017 6:50 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:
>> http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3.htm#K3SPkg
>>
>> I still question the wisdom of bundling the the preamp, USB, 630m
>> capabilities, etc into the K3S. This went against Elecraft's original
>> philosophy of keeping base price low and choosing only the options we
>> really
>> wanted. This resulted in inflating the base price which put it out of
>> reach
>> for many folks and further away from competing products (IC-7300, Kenwood
>> 590 and Flex 6300). That must be hurting sales resulting in discounting.
>>
>> A viable option is to buy a recent used K3 and sell/purchase options to
>> configure it as you want. Basic K3 prices are in the $1500 making this a
>> viable alternative IMHO.
>>
>> 73, Bill W4ZV

------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 12:39:41 -0700
From: Nicklas Johnson <[hidden email]>
To: elecraft <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID:
<[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I have a question on this because it wasn't immediately obvious to me when
I looked at the web site the other day.

Are the bundles fully assembled units, or is it possible to get a bundle in
kit form? I really enjoyed the assembly of my KX3, and I really like the
idea of bundling common options too.

Sorry if that's a dumb question and I just missed something that was
staring me in the face.

Nick

On Jul 29, 2017 12:31 PM, "Wayne Burdick" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Correct. The packages are just a convenience based on past ordering
> history.
>
> (FYI, we have a detailed features/performance comparison chart of the K3S
> vs. IC7300. Email me directly if interested.)
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
> > On Jul 29, 2017, at 12:18 PM, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Just because they OFFER bundles doesn't mean you can't order a base unit
> > and a la carte.
> >
> > After all... they ain't blowing out IC-7300s here. <ear to ear grin>
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > ______________________
> > Clay Autery, KY5G
> >
> > On 7/29/2017 6:50 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:
> >> http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3.htm#K3SPkg
> >>
> >> I still question the wisdom of bundling the the preamp, USB, 630m
> >> capabilities, etc into the K3S. This went against Elecraft's original
> >> philosophy of keeping base price low and choosing only the options we
> really
> >> wanted. This resulted in inflating the base price which put it out of
> reach
> >> for many folks and further away from competing products (IC-7300,
> Kenwood
> >> 590 and Flex 6300). That must be hurting sales resulting in
> discounting.
> >>
> >> A viable option is to buy a recent used K3 and sell/purchase options to
> >> configure it as you want. Basic K3 prices are in the $1500 making this
> a
> >> viable alternative IMHO.
> >>
> >> 73, Bill W4ZV
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 12:41:11 -0700
From: Fred Jensen <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is it just me or is 6 meters hotter than
usual?
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Es happens every summer. It commonly is most prevalent on 6, however 10
is often involved. I've experienced it on 20and 15 on rare occasions.
It sure does seem to be more pronounced this year though. For some
reason, it seems to abhor the western part of North America. I suspect
part of that may be because there are precious few hams out in the Basin
and Range to use it... you know, "tree falls in the forest, no one is
there ..."

There's an RF-quiet QTH in the Bay Area? [:-)

73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 7/29/2017 11:14 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 12:41:28 -0700
From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is it just me or is 6 meters hotter than
usual?
Message-ID:
<[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Hi Wayne,

There are many Elecrafters on 6M. Great antennas and high power are
better than QRP into a wet string, but from Chicago, I worked a guy on
Long Island loading a random wire in his basement, and from NorCal, I've
worked KH6 and the east coast with 100W into an 80M dipole. :)

The hot ticket on 6M right now is FT8, a new mode that's part of K1JT's
excellent suite of modes combined into WSJT-X. I made about 8 QSOs this
morning into SC, LA, TX, GA, AZ, NM, and OK. I'm running a KPA500 into a
SteppIR at 120 ft.

These QSOs were all E-skip, and those beyond about 1200 miles were
double-hop. E-skip is called "sporadic E" for a very good reason -- it's
quite sporadic -- and for double-hop Qs to work there must be a
reflecting cloud at two sequential points. FT8 has a s/n advantage of
about 10 dB over really skilled CW ops on both ends. JT65 provides an
additional 10-12 dB of noise immunity but takes four times longer.

Es conditions peak around the summer solstice, and most openings are
within 6-8 weeks of that date. There's also a smaller peak at the winter
solstice.

Serious 6M ops also work meteor scatter, tropo, and even EME. WSJT-X
includes modes optimized for each mode of propagation.

Before the advent of FT8 (about 6 weeks ago), I found CW and JT65 most
productive. This summer, I've made fewer than a half dozen CW Qs. In a
very exciting opening about a month ago, I worked two JAs on JT65 in
about ten minutes. Both called me when I was CQing to the east! As I
responded, I swung the antenna their way and worked them. :)

73, Jim K9YC

On 7/29/2017 11:14 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> I?m pretty new to 6 meters. I was expecting very limited activity. But now
> that I have an alert set up on dxmaps.com, I?m finding there are multiple
> openings every day. There?s an opening right now that includes the west
> coast.
>
> Is the propagation better than usual for July?
>
> Unfortunately my antennas for 6 aren?t all that great, and the local noise
> level is high, so I?ve been making use of every tool in the K3S toolbox
> (IF NB, DSP NB, NR, AFX, narrow filters, diversity, and CW-in-SSB). I?m
> considering taking the rig mobile to an RF-quiet location in the Bay Area
> next time there?s an opening. I have my eye out for a portable 6-meter
> beam.
>
> Now know what they mean by ?magic band." Give it a whirl....
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 12:42:48 -0700
From: "Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID:
<[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

If you want to rate how good (or how bad) a product is, you have to have
a random sampling of owners and equipment.

If the sample is self-selected, your sample consists mostly of those
having trouble, some who just like to help, and a few who don't own the
product.

Most Elecraft customers are happily operating, and have no gripes for
the list.

Nobody notices when things go right.

What you can learn from a list like this one is how the company handles
problems.

Unlike Kenwood, both of the owners and most of the engineers (probably
all) are on here, available to customers.

73 -- Lynn

On 7/29/2017 6:59 AM, Thom wrote:
> All I can say to Elecraft is if I had the money to buy a K3 with all the
> options, given all the issues people have with them on this list, I
> probably would not even consider buying one.

------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 13:03:01 -0700
From: Fred Jensen <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

I guess it is a change from the traditionalElecraft "roll your own from
a long list of options" approach, and your point is is valid, at least
partially. HoweverI suspect strongly that there are
manufacturing/assembly/logistics/support benefits and savings to the
company by offering several"canned" configurations.

Questions about "Which optionshould I get" often appear on this list,
and I've watched the E-folks at Hamfests spend a lot of time helping a
new customer figure out what they want/need. The "roll your own" option
is still available for those who prefer it, which is not true for other
manufacturers, at least to the same degree as from Elecraft.

My K3 is old [S/N 642] and it now has what I want and use [except for
the DVK which I wanted, bought, but have rarely used].When the K3s
showed up, I told myselfthat the first good reason I could come up with
to sell it and get a K3s, I'd do it. Still running #642.

73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 7/29/2017 4:50 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:

------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 16:17:47 -0400
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
To: Nicklas Johnson <[hidden email]>, elecraft
<[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Nick,

Notice the "-F" on the K3S/100 for all 3 bundles. That says Factory built.

Whether similar discounts will be offered for a kit version of the same
package remains to be seen.

I get the feeling that Elecraft is selling more factory assembled units
than kits.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/29/2017 3:39 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote:

> Are the bundles fully assembled units, or is it possible to get a bundle
> in
> kit form? I really enjoyed the assembly of my KX3, and I really like the
> idea of bundling common options too.
>

------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 16:27:30 -0400
From: Barry Baines <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Don:

Your points are spot on. I can recall back in 2014 when I first started to
think seriously about acquiring a K3, it took a significant amount of time
to try to figure what options were ?important? vs. ?desirable? and
understanding how options interfaced with each other. It wasn?t until I was
at the Huntsville Hamfest in August of that year and could ask questions of
the Elecraft Team that I was able to determine what to order. Eric
subsequently took my order (K3 w/selected options, KPA500, KAT500 and
K3/0-Mini) at the hamfest and it wasn?t long after that I had my ?goodies?
in hand. I subsequently had my remote station in SE Georgia up and running
and have been happy with the setup ever since.

What?s interesting about Elecraft?s approach is that this isn?t much
different from ordering other ?high end? products from manufacturers that
offer variations to their product line. Apple offers their computers with
variations in CPU, storage capacity, memory capacity, graphics capacity,
screen size, etc. based upon ?common? consumer interest and price points.
Dell and others do the same thing. Automobile Manufacturers offer vehicles
starting a basic model, then variations based what ?packages? are offered as
bundles. Example: Ford offers the base model, then ?XLT, then ?Limited?
then ?Sport.? Of course, there are numerous color combinations (exterior
and interior) not to mention different interior materials (leather, vinyl,
etc.).

My point is as consumers, we?re familiar with the idea of ?tailoring?
products based upon common packages that ?consumers? (or ?amateurs? in this
case) would typically order. That doesn?t prevent us from ?special order?
tailored to our specific needs when purchasing automobiles, computers, or
now Elecraft gear. In this case, Elecraft offers both ?packages? to provide
some insight into what ?typical? purchasers based upon areas of interest
(contesting, DX, casual operating) are typically looking for to give
potential purchasers an idea of configurations (and price) that meet their
preferences while also fulfilling special orders as the purchaser wants to
see in their equipment. (not to mention both factory and kit form).

Congratulations to Elecraft for providing another product differentiation
that focuses on the needs of the purchaser. Along with this approach, I?m
also impressed by their ?upgrade? pathways for K3 owners wishing to
incorporate K3s features which addresses not only enhancing performance but
also simplifies the upgrade process while verifying that what leaves the
factory is up to spec. This flexibility is somewhat unique to Elecraft
within the amateur radio marketplace and reflects well their focus on
meeting the needs of the customer which in turn reinforces brand loyalty.
We all appreciate the company that stands behind their product.

FWIW,

Barry Baines, WD4ASW
(Currently in Columbia, SC)

> On Jul 29, 2017, at 12:12 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On the contrary, I think the decision to offer "standard configuration
> packages" is a result of customer questions resulting from confusion about
> "what options do I need" and much time devoted to pre-sale communication
> with prospective customers.
>
> Other manufacturers offer an "all or nothing" package that is their
> current model/configuration.
>
> I have witnessed the confusion of many prospective buyers at the Elecraft
> booth at many hamfests - there is a lot of confusion about which options
> they should include. We endeavor to provide assistance to customize the
> option mix to the wants and needs of the customer.
>
> These "standard" packages is a way to allow customers to purchase a K3S
> for the type of operating that they will be doing while minimizing that
> pre-sale activity.
>
> One can still order additional options even with the pre-defined packages
> (and I assume also delete some options). But for the customer who is not
> familiar with what each Elecraft option will do for their operating
> experience, I believe it is a step in the right direction.
>
> If Elecraft were to follow other manufacturer's footsteps, there would be
> a K3S-I, K3S-II and K3S-III designation for each of those bundles, but
> note that Elecraft has chosen not to do that. You do not have to sell
> your K3S-I to get a K3S-III, just add the options needed to upgrade it.
>
> That "upgradability" has always been unique at Elecraft. Any K2 can be
> upgraded to the electrical equal of a new one, the same goes for the K3
> with the addition of the modules included in the K3S (with only a few
> minor exceptions).
>
> This is part of the Elecraft customer support philosophy. Note that the
> K2 is a 1998 design and is still going strong, and still fully supported.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/29/2017 11:17 AM, WILLIE BABER wrote:
>> I imagine that many persons wanting K3/K3s have one, and so sales may not
>> be as robust as a result. The many improvements over time have created a
>> mature radio--and all essential improvements can be made to an early K3
>> (same with the K2). I appreciate Elecraft for this approach to building
>> radios. However, this does mean that many of us are using aging K3s that
>> work just as well as the new K3s. I have two K3 radios (so2r), one is
>> about nine years older than the other one but they are both essentially
>> the same.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

------------------------------

Message: 25
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 16:27:42 -0400
From: Raymond Sills <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

And, that can be an important feature for those on a tight budget... start
with the base rig, and then add features/options as finances permit. Better
than waiting who knows how long to save up to buy the fully tricked-out
version.

73 de Ray
K2ULR
KX3 #211

-----Original Message-----
From: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>
To: elecraft <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sat, Jul 29, 2017 3:19 pm
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts

Just because they OFFER bundles doesn't mean you can't order a base unit
and a la carte.

After all... they ain't blowing out IC-7300s here. <ear to ear grin>

73,

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 7/29/2017 6:50 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
You must be a subscriber to post.
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

End of Elecraft Digest, Vol 159, Issue 26
*****************************************

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