Re: Elecraft Digest, Vol 168, Issue 23/ Grounds on Power Supply

[Elecraft mailing list]

Eric:

Concur this horse has been beaten senseless, lacking a conclusion.

But to set us straight, how did Elecraft  handle this notion in its SS 30 DV? Do I need to scrape paint or disconnect wires to be safe?

Thanks,

Ed McCann
AG6CX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 19, 2018, at 11:49 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: KPA1500 Caution (Edward R Cole)
>   2. Re: Negative rail grounding (Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft)
>   3. Re: KPA1500 Caution (John Marvin)
>   4. Packing Peanuts Are Of the Devil! (Jim Brown)
>   5. WTB: Loaded KX3 (Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS)
>   6. Re: Packing Peanuts Are Of the Devil! (Bill)
>   7. UPS Practice? was:Re:  KPA1500 Caution (N4ZR)
>   8. Re: UPS Practice? was:Re:  KPA1500 Caution ([hidden email])
>   9. Re: UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution (Dave Sublette)
>  10. Longer K-Pod cable? (Bob Novas)
>  11. Re: UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution (Joe Subich, W4TV)
>  12. Re: UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution (Don Wilhelm)
>  13. Re: UPS Practice? was:Re:  KPA1500 Caution (Mark E. Musick)
>  14. Re: UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution (Jim N7US)
>  15. Re: UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution (Don Wilhelm)
>  16. Re: UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution (N4ZR)
>  17. Re: UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution (SAMUEL L ROWE)
>  18. Re: Longer K-Pod cable? (Don Wilhelm)
>  19. Re: Packing Peanuts Are Of the Devil! (David Gilbert)
>  20. Re: Packing Peanuts Are Of the Devil! (Rick WA6NHC)
>  21. Re: Packing Peanuts Are Of the Devil! (rich hurd WC3T)
>  22.  UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution ([hidden email])
>  23. Re: Longer K-Pod cable? (Bill Frantz)
>  24. Re: Longer K-Pod cable? (Chuck Milam, N9KY)
>  25. Re: [KX3] New Product: SPX3 External Speaker (Robert Morris)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 20:36:54 -0800
> From: Edward R Cole <[hidden email]>
> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Caution
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> In today's USPS, both UPS and FedEx also carry the "mail" so one
> cannot be sure who the "actual carrier" is.
>
> I have no home delivery of US Mail so my USPS packages are held
> secure inside the PO.  Both UPS and FedEx delivery are drop n scoot
> (lucky if you are home and hear the knock).  And there your lovely
> $5K purchase sits out in the wx available for thieves.  I could opt
> for one of the box clusters which would result in driving 25-miles to
> the PO to pickup boxes too large.  RFD is out of a neighbor city.  My
> local PO is 4.5 miles. When I was still employed the PO was 0.25 mi
> from work which made it very convenient.  Its a small town PO and
> they know me by name.
>
> Another reason to chose Priority Mail is that UPS/FedEx cost 2x to 3x
> as much for delivery to Alaska (and 2-day delivery is 3-day+ for
> all  three services). No UPS/FedEx on weekends.  PO is open on Saturday.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
>   http://www.kl7uw.com
> Dubus-NA Business mail:
>   [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 22:09:53 -0700
> From: "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Negative rail grounding
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
>
> Gentlemen, This thread and related threads is getting well past our max OT posting limit. Please take it off list for now and report back on your final conclusions if you come to agreement.
>
> 73,
> Eric
> Moderator most of the time..
> elecraft.com
> _..._
>
>
>
>>> On Apr 18, 2018, at 4:09 PM, Phil Kane <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 4/18/2018 11:28 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> NEC does not apply to low voltage DC systems.
>>
>> Oh?  Check NEC Section 7 , specifically Article 720, which applies
>> specifically to Low Voltage systems.  (We do a LOT of 48V distribution
>> system designs.)
>>
>> Philip M. Kane  Esq / P.E.  (K2ASP since 1952)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 23:37:31 -0600
> From: John Marvin <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 Caution
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> In general, the quality of service that you perceive from the USPS, UPS
> or FedEx is almost completely due to the behavior of your local delivery
> person. None of the carriers treat your package with kid gloves, and a
> lot of it is automated such that they really don't pay any attention to
> "Fragile" notices, etc.? Most of the time if your package is damaged
> before your local delivery person gets their hands on it, it is due to
> low quality packing materials used by the shipper.
>
> Judging the overall nationwide quality of the USPS, UPS or Fedex based
> on what you see from your local delivery people doesn't make much
> sense.? That's why when people get in this type of discussion you hear
> about all the nightmares of a particular service from one person, and
> all the kudo's of the same service from another person.
>
> I happen to be lucky in that my local delivery people for all three
> services vary from very good to outstanding (my USPS carrier, when
> delivering a package, comes to the door with the rest of my mail, and
> rings the bell, waiting for me to come to the door. If I'm not home he
> places the package behind a post near the front door, and delivers the
> mail to the street mailbox). But friends living in the same town with
> postal workers working out of the same post office facility, have lots
> of bad experience with their carriers, and therefore hold a very
> prejudicial view of the USPS.
>
> Now there are other services that are terrible, and the problems occur
> throughout the system.? Amazon Prime occasionally uses a service called
> Ontrac, which ships to 8 states in the west. At least here in Colorado,
> they are reprehensible, and border on fraud when it comes to making
> their shipping comitments. Based on online reviews, I don't think
> they're any better anywhere else.
>
> 73,
>
> John
> AC0ZG
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 22:41:45 -0700
> From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Packing Peanuts Are Of the Devil!
> Message-ID:
>    <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>> On 4/18/2018 8:37 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Bubble wrap and packing peanuts work quite well.
>
> When someone sends me packing peanuts, I make a doll with their name on
> it and stick a LOT of pins in it. I also put their names, and the names
> of their company, on my permanent s--t list. They are absolutely
> miserable, a work of the devil. When I open a package, the xh$7x things
> blow all over the place, and thanks to static, are a huge pain to collect.
>
> Bubble wrap is great, easy to reuse or dispose of. The air bags are fine
> for light weight stuff if the rest of the packaging is decent.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 23:26:30 -0700 (MST)
> From: "Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] WTB: Loaded KX3
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi,
>
> looking for loaded KX3 (KXAT3, KXBC3, KXFL3) in 100%, no issues conditions.
> Lower 48 or CONUS only is ok, PayPal also.
>
> Thanks for offers.
>
> 73 - Petr
>
>
>
> -----
> http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 06:27:17 -0400
> From: Bill <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Packing Peanuts Are Of the Devil!
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> The best packed radio I ever received was from TenTec. The radio was
> bagged and was placed on the middle of a bed of cured spray foam. Then
> the remainder of the box was filled with the same expanding spray foam.
> Totally secure - nothing could move in any direction. I do not know if
> this was their standard packing - I only purchased once from them.
>
> Bill W2BLC K-line
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 07:51:39 -0400
> From: N4ZR <[hidden email]>
> To: Elecraft List <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] UPS Practice? was:Re:  KPA1500 Caution
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> I have had good luck with USPS, but am less than thrilled with UPS.? My
> K3 has been on its way back from Watsonville and was to arrive
> yesterday, but I wasn't home when UPS came by.? Imagine my surprise to
> see that a signature was required, and that they will try again today,
> but with no indication of when or what will happen if I miss them today.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
>> On 4/18/2018 11:02 PM, Pete Michaelis - N8TR wrote:
>> That's odd. I got my shipping notice Friday (ordered first day 2.5
>> hours after email)
>> and also a UPS?? tracking number which I have been using to track the
>> amps progress.
>>
>> 73, Pete - N8TR
>>
>>
>>
>> At 06:17 PM 4/18/2018, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> I???m a day-2 KPA1500 patient waiter.? I got the email 2 days ago and
>>> today it shipped. There???s one potential problem.? It must have been
>>> mentioned on this reflector and I missed it.? Elecraft used U.S.
>>> Postal Service (USPS) to send the amp cross-country.? I have never
>>> had a good experience with USPS??? handling of package deliveries,
>>> particularly heavy (expensive) ones.? If you care about the shipper,
>>> have the discussion with Elecraft up front.? I should have.? Good
>>> luck all. Gary W2CS
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 12:39:11 +0000 (UTC)
> From: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> To: Elecraft List <[hidden email]>, N4ZR <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] UPS Practice? was:Re:  KPA1500 Caution
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>>>> Imagine my surprise to
> see that a signature was required <<<
> Pete, why would you be surprise? !!!!!!Or! maybe the question should've been, should UPS just leave such an expensive package on your doorstep?!!!I'm sure there were instructions on how to get the Radio/ Package at your convenience. You should be rather "Thrilled" that UPS has given consideration to following the instructions of a safe delivery set forth by Elecraft.
> Milverton / W9MMS.
>
>
>    On Thursday, April 19, 2018, 6:54:34 AM CDT, N4ZR <[hidden email]> wrote:  
>
> I have had good luck with USPS, but am less than thrilled with UPS.? My
> K3 has been on its way back from Watsonville and was to arrive
> yesterday, but I wasn't home when UPS came by.? Imagine my surprise to
> see that a signature was required, and that they will try again today,
> but with no indication of when or what will happen if I miss them today.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
>> On 4/18/2018 11:02 PM, Pete Michaelis - N8TR wrote:
>> That's odd. I got my shipping notice Friday (ordered first day 2.5
>> hours after email)
>> and also a UPS?? tracking number which I have been using to track the
>> amps progress.
>>
>> 73, Pete - N8TR
>>
>>
>>
>> At 06:17 PM 4/18/2018, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> I???m a day-2 KPA1500 patient waiter.? I got the email 2 days ago and
>>> today it shipped. There???s one potential problem.? It must have been
>>> mentioned on this reflector and I missed it.? Elecraft used U.S.
>>> Postal Service (USPS) to send the amp cross-country.? I have never
>>> had a good experience with USPS??? handling of package deliveries,
>>> particularly heavy (expensive) ones.? If you care about the shipper,
>>> have the discussion with Elecraft up front.? I should have.? Good
>>> luck all. Gary W2CS
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]  
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 09:00:43 -0400
> From: Dave Sublette <[hidden email]>
> To: Elecraft Discussion List <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution
> Message-ID:
>    <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> There is an APP that allows you to specify when you want your package
> delivered by UPS.  Also, you might have been able to go to the UPS
> distribution point in your area and pick it up, depending on what time of
> day you got home, etc...  I have done this several times.
>
> I know it is disappointing to miss a delivery, but the other fellow is
> right.  I wouldn't want that beautiful amp to sit on my door step for
> anyone to pick up when I'm not home.
>
> 73,
>
> Dave, K4TO
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 8:39 AM, tnnyswy--- via Elecraft <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>>>> Imagine my surprise to
>> see that a signature was required <<<
>> Pete, why would you be surprise? !!!!!!Or! maybe the question should've
>> been, should UPS just leave such an expensive package on your
>> doorstep?!!!I'm sure there were instructions on how to get the Radio/
>> Package at your convenience. You should be rather "Thrilled" that UPS has
>> given consideration to following the instructions of a safe delivery set
>> forth by Elecraft.
>> Milverton / W9MMS.
>>
>>
>>    On Thursday, April 19, 2018, 6:54:34 AM CDT, N4ZR <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I have had good luck with USPS, but am less than thrilled with UPS.  My
>> K3 has been on its way back from Watsonville and was to arrive
>> yesterday, but I wasn't home when UPS came by.  Imagine my surprise to
>> see that a signature was required, and that they will try again today,
>> but with no indication of when or what will happen if I miss them today.
>>
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
>> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
>> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
>> For spots, please use your favorite
>> "retail" DX cluster.
>>
>>> On 4/18/2018 11:02 PM, Pete Michaelis - N8TR wrote:
>>> That's odd. I got my shipping notice Friday (ordered first day 2.5
>>> hours after email)
>>> and also a UPS   tracking number which I have been using to track the
>>> amps progress.
>>>
>>> 73, Pete - N8TR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 06:17 PM 4/18/2018, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>> I???m a day-2 KPA1500 patient waiter.  I got the email 2 days ago and
>>>> today it shipped. There???s one potential problem.  It must have been
>>>> mentioned on this reflector and I missed it.  Elecraft used U.S.
>>>> Postal Service (USPS) to send the amp cross-country.  I have never
>>>> had a good experience with USPS??? handling of package deliveries,
>>>> particularly heavy (expensive) ones.  If you care about the shipper,
>>>> have the discussion with Elecraft up front.  I should have.  Good
>>>> luck all. Gary W2CS
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 09:16:59 -0400
> From: "Bob Novas" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] Longer K-Pod cable?
> Message-ID: <002a01d3d7e0$b30c24c0$19246e40$@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
>
> Can I just makeup a 4 wire cable that is longer than the cable supplied with
> the K-Pod?  Any gotchas?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Bob - W3DK
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 09:18:53 -0400
> From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>> On 2018-04-19 9:00 AM, Dave Sublette wrote:
>>
>> I know it is disappointing to miss a delivery, but the other fellow is
>> right.  I wouldn't want that beautiful amp to sit on my door step for
>> anyone to pick up when I'm not home.
>
> Consider yourself lucky if UPS *did not* drop the package on the porch
> and run.  I have a 200 foot long driveway, the end of which is out of
> sight of my front door.  UPS often dumps packages at the end of the
> drive, in full view of the road, and out of sight of the house even if
> I'm home!  The drivers simply don't want to pull into the narrow drive
> (and back out) and they're too lazy to carry the package to the door
> (or put it on a dolly if it's more than 25#) and wheel it up the
> (concrete) drive.
>
>
> 73,
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 09:09:31 -0400
> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>,    Elecraft List
>    <[hidden email]>, N4ZR <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> For UPS, Insurance of $1000 or more or a request for a direct signature
> will require that someone at your home sign for the delivery.
>
> With USPS, that signature threshold is $500.
>
> Normally, they will attempt to re-deliver the next business day.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/19/2018 8:39 AM, tnnyswy--- via Elecraft wrote:
>>>>> Imagine my surprise to
>> see that a signature was required <<<
>> Pete, why would you be surprise? !!!!!!Or! maybe the question should've been, should UPS just leave such an expensive package on your doorstep?!!!I'm sure there were instructions on how to get the Radio/ Package at your convenience. You should be rather "Thrilled" that UPS has given consideration to following the instructions of a safe delivery set forth by Elecraft.
>> Milverton / W9MMS.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 13:32:12 -0000
> From: "Mark E. Musick" <[hidden email]>
> To: "'N4ZR'" <[hidden email]>, "'Elecraft List'"
>    <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] UPS Practice? was:Re:  KPA1500 Caution
> Message-ID: <01fe01d3d7e2$d3cc5200$7b64f600$@sbcglobal.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8"
>
> Pete,
> It is common practice to require a signature for any package of large value. I know that anything shipped to me over $1,000 or sometimes even $500 will require my signature.
> I get around the having to be home issue by having the package shipped to the local UPS store. Yes, it costs $5.00, but well worth the convenience.
> There are two ways to have your package delivered to the UPS store after being shipped to your home address:
> One, leave a note on the door where the delivery man left his note yesterday telling him to drop it off at the UPS store.
> The second way is using the tracking number go to the UPS website and change the delivery address to the local UPS store.
> I've done number two many times when the UPS delivery man and I have had trouble connecting at my home.
>
> 73,
> Mark, WB9CIF
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of N4ZR
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 11:52 AM
> To: Elecraft List <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution
>
> I have had good luck with USPS, but am less than thrilled with UPS.  My
> K3 has been on its way back from Watsonville and was to arrive yesterday, but I wasn't home when UPS came by.  Imagine my surprise to see that a signature was required, and that they will try again today, but with no indication of when or what will happen if I miss them today.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
>> On 4/18/2018 11:02 PM, Pete Michaelis - N8TR wrote:
>> That's odd. I got my shipping notice Friday (ordered first day 2.5
>> hours after email) and also a UPS   tracking number which I have been
>> using to track the amps progress.
>>
>> 73, Pete - N8TR
>>
>>
>>
>> At 06:17 PM 4/18/2018, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> I???m a day-2 KPA1500 patient waiter.  I got the email 2 days ago and
>>> today it shipped. There???s one potential problem.  It must have been
>>> mentioned on this reflector and I missed it.  Elecraft used U.S.
>>> Postal Service (USPS) to send the amp cross-country.  I have never
>>> had a good experience with USPS??? handling of package deliveries,
>>> particularly heavy (expensive) ones.  If you care about the shipper,
>>> have the discussion with Elecraft up front.  I should have.  Good
>>> luck all. Gary W2CS
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 08:35:01 -0500
> From: "Jim N7US" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution
> Message-ID: <00de01d3d7e3$38363120$a8a29360$@n7us.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8"
>
> I signed up for UPS My Choice, which is free.  I receive emails informing me of any packages scheduled for delivery at my address whether they're addressed to me or someone else in my household.  I can specify where the packages are to be left (e.g., side porch), when, or whether I want to pick up the package at a UPS location.
>
> Check it out at
> https://www.ups.com/us/en/services/tracking/mychoice.page .
>
> 73, Jim N7US
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> There is an APP that allows you to specify when you want your package delivered by UPS.  Also, you might have been able to go to the UPS distribution point in your area and pick it up, depending on what time of day you got home, etc...  I have done this several times.
>
> I know it is disappointing to miss a delivery, but the other fellow is right.  I wouldn't want that beautiful amp to sit on my door step for anyone to pick up when I'm not home.
>
> 73,
>
> Dave, K4TO
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 8:39 AM, tnnyswy--- via Elecraft < [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>>>> Imagine my surprise to
>> see that a signature was required <<<
>> Pete, why would you be surprise? !!!!!!Or! maybe the question
>> should've been, should UPS just leave such an expensive package on
>> your doorstep?!!!I'm sure there were instructions on how to get the
>> Radio/ Package at your convenience. You should be rather "Thrilled"
>> that UPS has given consideration to following the instructions of a
>> safe delivery set forth by Elecraft.
>> Milverton / W9MMS.
>>
>>
>>    On Thursday, April 19, 2018, 6:54:34 AM CDT, N4ZR
>> <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I have had good luck with USPS, but am less than thrilled with UPS.  
>> My
>> K3 has been on its way back from Watsonville and was to arrive
>> yesterday, but I wasn't home when UPS came by.  Imagine my surprise to
>> see that a signature was required, and that they will try again today,
>> but with no indication of when or what will happen if I miss them today.
>>
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 09:41:20 -0400
> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> I guess I am fortunate,  I have a 1/4 mile unpaved driveway - at the end
> of a 3/4 mile unpaved private road in our large lot subdivision (8+
> acres for each lot.
>
> The house cannot be seen until you get halfway up the driveway.
> UPS delivers to my front door and USPS does the same for packages that
> will not fit in the mailbox.
>
> I am signed up for UPS My Choice, so I am notified when a package will
> arrive.  I also signed the Driver Release so the driver can leave a
> package even though it is insured and I am temporarily away.
> I am very careful to set a "vacation stop" for both UPS and USPS when I
> will be away for an extended period of time.  That guarantees that the
> driver will not leave a package when I am away from home for an extended
> period.
>
> Delivery service from both carriers is excellent here, but as has been
> said, much depends on the local delivery person.  I reward mine with a
> gift during the holiday season, and it pays benefits.
>
> USPS and UPS both work well for me.  I do not have the same flexibilty
> with FedEx, but that is not to say they are not a good carrier.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> On 4/19/2018 9:18 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>> On 2018-04-19 9:00 AM, Dave Sublette wrote:
>>>
>>> I know it is disappointing to miss a delivery, but the other fellow is
>>> right.? I wouldn't want that beautiful amp to sit on my door step for
>>> anyone to pick up when I'm not home.
>>
>> Consider yourself lucky if UPS *did not* drop the package on the porch
>> and run.? I have a 200 foot long driveway, the end of which is out of
>> sight of my front door.? UPS often dumps packages at the end of the
>> drive, in full view of the road, and out of sight of the house even if
>> I'm home!? The drivers simply don't want to pull into the narrow drive
>> (and back out) and they're too lazy to carry the package to the door
>> (or put it on a dolly if it's more than 25#) and wheel it up the
>> (concrete) drive.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 09:47:58 -0400
> From: N4ZR <[hidden email]>
> To: "Mark E. Musick" <[hidden email]>,    'Elecraft List'
>    <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Yes, I know. The problem is that they did not warn me when tracking the
> package that I would have to be there, and despite claiming they would
> do so, their web site also gave me no inkling of when during the day I
> could expect delivery. For a company that designs its deliveryroutes to
> minimize left turns, you'd think this would be child's play.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
>> On 4/19/2018 9:32 AM, Mark E. Musick wrote:
>> Pete,
>> It is common practice to require a signature for any package of large value. I know that anything shipped to me over $1,000 or sometimes even $500 will require my signature.
>> I get around the having to be home issue by having the package shipped to the local UPS store. Yes, it costs $5.00, but well worth the convenience.
>> There are two ways to have your package delivered to the UPS store after being shipped to your home address:
>> One, leave a note on the door where the delivery man left his note yesterday telling him to drop it off at the UPS store.
>> The second way is using the tracking number go to the UPS website and change the delivery address to the local UPS store.
>> I've done number two many times when the UPS delivery man and I have had trouble connecting at my home.
>>
>> 73,
>> Mark, WB9CIF
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of N4ZR
>> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 11:52 AM
>> To: Elecraft List <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: [Elecraft] UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution
>>
>> I have had good luck with USPS, but am less than thrilled with UPS.  My
>> K3 has been on its way back from Watsonville and was to arrive yesterday, but I wasn't home when UPS came by.  Imagine my surprise to see that a signature was required, and that they will try again today, but with no indication of when or what will happen if I miss them today.
>>
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
>> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
>> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
>> For spots, please use your favorite
>> "retail" DX cluster.
>>
>>> On 4/18/2018 11:02 PM, Pete Michaelis - N8TR wrote:
>>> That's odd. I got my shipping notice Friday (ordered first day 2.5
>>> hours after email) and also a UPS   tracking number which I have been
>>> using to track the amps progress.
>>>
>>> 73, Pete - N8TR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 06:17 PM 4/18/2018, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>> I???m a day-2 KPA1500 patient waiter.  I got the email 2 days ago and
>>>> today it shipped. There???s one potential problem.  It must have been
>>>> mentioned on this reflector and I missed it.  Elecraft used U.S.
>>>> Postal Service (USPS) to send the amp cross-country.  I have never
>>>> had a good experience with USPS??? handling of package deliveries,
>>>> particularly heavy (expensive) ones.  If you care about the shipper,
>>>> have the discussion with Elecraft up front.  I should have.  Good
>>>> luck all. Gary W2CS
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 13:51:52 +0000
> From: SAMUEL L ROWE <[hidden email]>
> To: Jim N7US <[hidden email]>, Elecraft Reflector
>    <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution
> Message-ID:
>    <[hidden email]>
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I have that as well as Informed Delivery Daily Digest from the USPS which is also free.
>
>
> Sam KG9NG
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Jim N7US <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 8:35 AM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution
>
> I signed up for UPS My Choice, which is free.  I receive emails informing me of any packages scheduled for delivery at my address whether they're addressed to me or someone else in my household.  I can specify where the packages are to be left (e.g., side porch), when, or whether I want to pick up the package at a UPS location.
>
> Check it out at
> https://www.ups.com/us/en/services/tracking/mychoice.page .
> UPS My Choice? | UPS Services<https://www.ups.com/us/en/services/tracking/mychoice.page>
> www.ups.com
> UPS My Choice? lets you decide how, where and when home deliveries occur. Online or by mobile, with My Choice you can put your plans ahead of the package. UPS My Choice? lets you decide how, where and when home deliveries occur. Online or by mobile, with UPS My Choice you can put your plans ahead of
>
>
>
> 73, Jim N7US
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> There is an APP that allows you to specify when you want your package delivered by UPS.  Also, you might have been able to go to the UPS distribution point in your area and pick it up, depending on what time of day you got home, etc...  I have done this several times.
>
> I know it is disappointing to miss a delivery, but the other fellow is right.  I wouldn't want that beautiful amp to sit on my door step for anyone to pick up when I'm not home.
>
> 73,
>
> Dave, K4TO
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 8:39 AM, tnnyswy--- via Elecraft < [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>>>> Imagine my surprise to
>> see that a signature was required <<<
>> Pete, why would you be surprise? !!!!!!Or! maybe the question
>> should've been, should UPS just leave such an expensive package on
>> your doorstep?!!!I'm sure there were instructions on how to get the
>> Radio/ Package at your convenience. You should be rather "Thrilled"
>> that UPS has given consideration to following the instructions of a
>> safe delivery set forth by Elecraft.
>> Milverton / W9MMS.
>>
>>
>>    On Thursday, April 19, 2018, 6:54:34 AM CDT, N4ZR
>> <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I have had good luck with USPS, but am less than thrilled with UPS.
>> My
>> K3 has been on its way back from Watsonville and was to arrive
>> yesterday, but I wasn't home when UPS came by.  Imagine my surprise to
>> see that a signature was required, and that they will try again today,
>> but with no indication of when or what will happen if I miss them today.
>>
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 09:46:24 -0400
> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> To: Bob Novas <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Longer K-Pod cable?
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Bob,
>
> You are welcome to try it.  I have seen no data on how long it can be.
> BTW, it is NOT a 4 wire cable - it uses 5 wires out of 6 in the 6P6C
> connector - pin 1 must not be connected.  See page 19 of the K-Pod manual.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> On 4/19/2018 9:16 AM, Bob Novas wrote:
>> Can I just makeup a 4 wire cable that is longer than the cable supplied with
>> the K-Pod?  Any gotchas?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 08:32:46 -0700
> From: David Gilbert <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Packing Peanuts Are Of the Devil!
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>
> Pretty much the same effect can be had with styrofoam peanuts if they
> are bagged, such as with lightweight kitchen trash bags. Conformal
> packing without the mess.? I'll never understand why companies ship with
> loose peanuts.
>
> Dave? AB7E
>
>
>
>> On 4/19/2018 3:27 AM, Bill wrote:
>> The best packed radio I ever received was from TenTec. The radio was
>> bagged and was placed on the middle of a bed of cured spray foam. Then
>> the remainder of the box was filled with the same expanding spray
>> foam. Totally secure - nothing could move in any direction. I do not
>> know if this was their standard packing - I only purchased once from
>> them.
>>
>> Bill W2BLC K-line
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 08:58:08 -0700
> From: Rick WA6NHC <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Packing Peanuts Are Of the Devil!
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Because they slide the box under a hopper, spill peanuts in, add the
> product and fill with more peanuts, slide to the taping position, label
> and ship.? Simple, quick and low cost to let them move more product out
> faster.? Pure economics.
>
> Rick nhc
>
>
>> On 4/19/2018 8:32 AM, David Gilbert wrote:
>>
>> Pretty much the same effect can be had with styrofoam peanuts if they
>> are bagged, such as with lightweight kitchen trash bags. Conformal
>> packing without the mess.? I'll never understand why companies ship
>> with loose peanuts.
>>
>> Dave? AB7E
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 15:57:49 +0000
> From: rich hurd WC3T <[hidden email]>
> To: David Gilbert <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Packing Peanuts Are Of the Devil!
> Message-ID:
>    <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Look in the shipping department.   They have a huge dispenser and just open
> a spigot and let them pour in.  Fast and easy, pushing the labor for
> removal to the person OPENING the package.  ;)
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 11:32 David Gilbert <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Pretty much the same effect can be had with styrofoam peanuts if they
>> are bagged, such as with lightweight kitchen trash bags. Conformal
>> packing without the mess.  I'll never understand why companies ship with
>> loose peanuts.
>>
>> Dave  AB7E
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 4/19/2018 3:27 AM, Bill wrote:
>>> The best packed radio I ever received was from TenTec. The radio was
>>> bagged and was placed on the middle of a bed of cured spray foam. Then
>>> the remainder of the box was filled with the same expanding spray
>>> foam. Totally secure - nothing could move in any direction. I do not
>>> know if this was their standard packing - I only purchased once from
>>> them.
>>>
>>> Bill W2BLC K-line
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> --
> 72,
> Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
> PA Army MARS, Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer
> for Scouting
> Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40?45.68' N 75?17.33' W) Grid:
> *FN20is*
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 12:37:24 -0400
> From: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft]  UPS Practice? was:Re: KPA1500 Caution
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
>
> Sign up for UPS My Choice
> https://www.ups.com/mobile/deliveryplanner?loc=en_US and you will be aware
> of every package coming to your residence. You can redirect packages if
> they require a signature and you will not be home.
>
> John KK9A
>
>
> N4ZR wrote:
>
> Yes, I know. The problem is that they did not warn me when tracking the
> package that I would have to be there, and despite claiming they would
> do so, their web site also gave me no inkling of when during the day I
> could expect delivery. For a company that designs its deliveryroutes to
> minimize left turns, you'd think this would be child's play.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
> at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 10:13:18 -0700
> From: Bill Frantz <[hidden email]>
> To: Bob Novas <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Longer K-Pod cable?
> Message-ID:
>    <[hidden email]>
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> I have made a slightly longer cable, mine iw 4 or 5 feet long.
> Elecraft warns that these cables aren't good for long distances,
> so builder beware. My cable seems to work reliably.
>
> Do follow Don't warning and don't connect pin 1. The K3(S) end
> is also used for factory setup of the radio, and you don't want
> to go there yourself.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
>> On 4/19/18 at 6:16 AM, [hidden email] (Bob Novas) wrote:
>>
>> Can I just makeup a 4 wire cable that is longer than the cable supplied with
>> the K-Pod?  Any gotchas?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Bob - W3DK
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz        | Ham radio contesting is a    | Periwinkle
> [phone]      | contact sport.               | 16345
> Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com |  - Ken Widelitz K6LA / VY2TT | Los Gatos,
> CA 95032
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 11:12:49 -0500
> From: "Chuck Milam, N9KY" <[hidden email]>
> To: Bob Novas <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft Mail List <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Longer K-Pod cable?
> Message-ID:
>    <CAMsj5Kjthttkaq6W15G_nBnoKVM1TTjr0Jxf0RG8=[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Bob:
>
> I made one to allow it to reach around the back of the desk and then
> underneath to the keyboard tray, so the K-Pod is right next to my computer
> mouse--very handy.
>
> Make sure you get the wiring correct, as W3PFR points out, pin 1 must not
> be connected, else you may get some "interesting" results.
>
> I ordered a 6P6C cable, cut off one end, then crimped on my own connector
> with the pin 1 wire cut back and therefore disconnected.
>
> If you do this, be sure to mark the cable ends, as noted in the K-Pod
> manual:
>
> *"If you disconnect the wire at only one end, be sure that end is plugged
> into your K3S or K3."*  (p. 19)
>
>
> ---
> Chuck Milam, N9KY
> [hidden email]
>
>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 8:16 AM, Bob Novas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Can I just makeup a 4 wire cable that is longer than the cable supplied
>> with
>> the K-Pod?  Any gotchas?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Bob - W3DK
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 11:46:26 -0700
> From: Robert Morris <[hidden email]>
> To: Mark Wheeler <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft Listserver <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] New Product: SPX3 External Speaker
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Here is my reply to another response which didn't make it to my Inbox. I
> try to keep up with everyone's inquiries. The original response is at
> the bottom:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> Thanks for your feedback. I've been wondering the same thing about the
> grille. A square or rectangular grille would mimic the look of the
> Elecraft SP3, which is a plus. On the other hand, in order to have a
> volume knob on the face, a square or rectangular grille would likely
> force the enclosure to be wider to accommodate both the grille and knob.
> The round grille allows a knob to be placed in the corner with ease.
> Also, a round grille weighs less.
>
> I used a round grille for the first prototype because I was able to
> source one that fit the speaker driver I'm using. So, I could at least
> have a complete speaker. Fortunately, it looks better than I had
> anticipated. Of course, your question is, which would look better? For
> many, it comes down to personal preference. I'm open to what you and
> others prefer.
>
> Thanks and 73,
> Robert (AG6ZZ)
>
> -------------------------
>
> Robert,
>
> I love the idea, I'm wondering about whether a square or rectangular
> speaker grill would look better.  73,
>
> Mark
> KM6HFR
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> You must be a subscriber to post.
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
> End of Elecraft Digest, Vol 168, Issue 23
> *****************************************

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