Re: FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published
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Re: FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published
 
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Sandy wrote:
> I am planning on trying CW for the first time on 60 meters on the new > channel 3 on 5358.5. Just hope the PACTOR stuff doesn't jump on that > channel and "claim" it. That channel will likely become the favorite 60 meter frequency for the several military and vintage commercial radio USB nets because the carrier frequency 5357 kHz can be precisely entered on units that can be set only in 1 kHz increments. All other 60 meter USB channels require the ability to set the unit on 0.5 kHz increments. > It looks like there isn't ANY "normal" RTTY authorized, only PSK31. It > would be hard to run "normal" RTTY with only a 60 Hz. bandwidth. The rules mention only 60H0J2B and the discussion explains why, due to the J2B designation, it is considered RTTY. The 2K80J2D Data mode seems to refers to PACTOR-III. But isn't PACTOR-III a commercial and proprietary protocol? The FCC seems to include it for some future use with non-ham emergency networks. So, the authorized emissions seem pretty simple: 150HA1A CW Morse telegraphy, transmitter dial on the channel center frequency 2K80J3E USB phone, transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency 60H0J2B RTTY (PSK-31 sent on USB phone), transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency 2K80J2D DATA (PACTOR-III sent on USB phone), transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency I guess the only thing not specified is where the PSK-31 signal shows up above the carrier frequency. Don't most PSK-31 transmissions use something around 1000 Hz? I wish conventional 170 Hz FSK RTTY had been authorized. I don't know why that would be worse than USB Phone or PACTOR-III. 73, Mike / KK5F ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published
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> I guess the only thing not specified is where the PSK-31 signal shows > up above the carrier frequency. Don't most PSK-31 transmissions use > something around 1000 Hz? In the discussion part of the Report and Order, the Commission made it clear that the PSK31 signal *must* be located on the channel center - there were not to be multiple signals per channel creating a "mini PSK31 band". To comply with the Commission's intent, PSK31 should be operated with a 1500 Hz audio tone and the dial set 1.5 KHz below the channel center. If, as in the case of the K3, the PSK generator uses a subcarrier other than 1500 Hz, the dial frequency must be offset as needed to place the resulting PSK31 signal in the center of the assigned channel. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2/4/2012 3:32 PM, Mike Morrow wrote: > Sandy wrote: > >> I am planning on trying CW for the first time on 60 meters on the new >> channel 3 on 5358.5. Just hope the PACTOR stuff doesn't jump on that >> channel and "claim" it. > > That channel will likely become the favorite 60 meter frequency for the > several military and vintage commercial radio USB nets because the > carrier frequency 5357 kHz can be precisely entered on units that can be > set only in 1 kHz increments. All other 60 meter USB channels require the > ability to set the unit on 0.5 kHz increments. > >> It looks like there isn't ANY "normal" RTTY authorized, only PSK31. It >> would be hard to run "normal" RTTY with only a 60 Hz. bandwidth. > > The rules mention only 60H0J2B and the discussion explains why, due to the > J2B designation, it is considered RTTY. The 2K80J2D Data mode seems to > refers to PACTOR-III. But isn't PACTOR-III a commercial and proprietary > protocol? The FCC seems to include it for some future use with non-ham > emergency networks. > > So, the authorized emissions seem pretty simple: > 150HA1A CW Morse telegraphy, > transmitter dial on the channel center frequency > 2K80J3E USB phone, > transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency > 60H0J2B RTTY (PSK-31 sent on USB phone), > transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency > 2K80J2D DATA (PACTOR-III sent on USB phone), > transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency > > I guess the only thing not specified is where the PSK-31 signal shows up > above the carrier frequency. Don't most PSK-31 transmissions use > something around 1000 Hz? > > I wish conventional 170 Hz FSK RTTY had been authorized. I don't know > why that would be worse than USB Phone or PACTOR-III. > > 73, > Mike / KK5F > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Mike Morrow-3
I would presume that the "reason" they didn't include "conventional" RTTY is
because of the excessive bandwidth. You can do the same thing with PSK-31 and MORE and with less power output. Add to that multiple simultaneous users of the same channel! It’s a "natural" for "channelized" bandplan channels. 73, Sandy W5TVW -----Original Message----- From: Mike Morrow Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 2:32 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published That channel will likely become the favorite 60 meter frequency for the several military and vintage commercial radio USB nets because the carrier frequency 5357 kHz can be precisely entered on units that can be set only in 1 kHz increments. All other 60 meter USB channels require the ability to set the unit on 0.5 kHz increments. > It looks like there isn't ANY "normal" RTTY authorized, only PSK31. It > would be hard to run "normal" RTTY with only a 60 Hz. bandwidth. The rules mention only 60H0J2B and the discussion explains why, due to the J2B designation, it is considered RTTY. The 2K80J2D Data mode seems to refers to PACTOR-III. But isn't PACTOR-III a commercial and proprietary protocol? The FCC seems to include it for some future use with non-ham emergency networks. So, the authorized emissions seem pretty simple: 150HA1A CW Morse telegraphy, transmitter dial on the channel center frequency 2K80J3E USB phone, transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency 60H0J2B RTTY (PSK-31 sent on USB phone), transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency 2K80J2D DATA (PACTOR-III sent on USB phone), transmitter dial 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency I guess the only thing not specified is where the PSK-31 signal shows up above the carrier frequency. Don't most PSK-31 transmissions use something around 1000 Hz? I wish conventional 170 Hz FSK RTTY had been authorized. I don't know why that would be worse than USB Phone or PACTOR-III. 73, Mike / KK5F ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4788 - Release Date: 02/04/12 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
Joe,
Did you see this indicated anywhere in the information that was in the Federal Register? I saw no indication that the PSK signal "MUST" be on some specific location within a channel. I do remember some random discussion about there being one user per channel at the same time, but this doesn't make sense for the efficient use of PSK-31. Being able to multiplex several QSO's at one time is a great advantage in a spectrum environment with little space per channel! If you see ANY reference to this in the Federal Register posting, let me know if I have overlooked it! 73, Sandy W5TVW -----Original Message----- From: Joe Subich, W4TV Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 2:45 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published > I guess the only thing not specified is where the PSK-31 signal shows > up above the carrier frequency. Don't most PSK-31 transmissions use > something around 1000 Hz? In the discussion part of the Report and Order, the Commission made it clear that the PSK31 signal *must* be located on the channel center - there were not to be multiple signals per channel creating a "mini PSK31 band". To comply with the Commission's intent, PSK31 should be operated with a 1500 Hz audio tone and the dial set 1.5 KHz below the channel center. If, as in the case of the K3, the PSK generator uses a subcarrier other than 1500 Hz, the dial frequency must be offset as needed to place the resulting PSK31 signal in the center of the assigned channel. 73, ... Joe, W4TV ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published
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> Did you see this indicated anywhere in the information that was in > the Federal Register? Among other places it is in the ARRL's report dated 21 November 2011: the requirement is to transmit “only on the five center frequencies specified”. In simple terms, that means the RF emission must be ON the center frequency or equally spaced on either side not just "somewhere in the channel". Further, in the FCC's Report and Order: http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2011/db1118/FCC-11-171A1.pdf, paragraph 33 reads: "The NPRM proposed that, for amateur stations transmitting CW emissions and PKS31 data emissions, the carrier frequency [note: FCC refers to the RF frequency of a CW or PSK31 signal as the "carrier frequency" - they are not referring to the "dial" or center of channel] shall be set to the center frequency." In paragraph 36 (ibid), the Commission writes: "We ADOPT the center frequency requirement as proposed in the NPRM. Because the Amateur Service operates in the 60 meter band on a secondary basis, we pay particular attention to NTIA's position and the interests of Federal agencies that have primary status in the band. We conclude that continuing to restrict amateur stations to TRANSMITTING ON THE CENTER FREQUENCIES (emphasis added) will maintain the limited number of amateur operators using the five channels at any given time and provide certainty as to where such operators can be found." The Report and Order goes on to give the exact language that will be modified in Part 97 and I'm not going to duplicate all of it here. However, the Commission's own discussion of the matter is quite unambiguous - they want only one user at a time on each channel and they want all RF centered on the center of the channel - period. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2/4/2012 5:29 PM, Sandy wrote: > Joe, > > Did you see this indicated anywhere in the information that was in the > Federal Register? I saw no indication that the PSK signal "MUST" be on > some specific location within a channel. I do remember some random > discussion about there being one user per channel at the same time, but > this doesn't make sense for the efficient use of PSK-31. Being able to > multiplex several QSO's at one time is a great advantage in a spectrum > environment with little space per channel! If you see ANY reference to > this in the Federal Register posting, let me know if I have overlooked it! > > 73, > > Sandy W5TVW > > -----Original Message----- From: Joe Subich, W4TV > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 2:45 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published > > >> I guess the only thing not specified is where the PSK-31 signal shows >> up above the carrier frequency. Don't most PSK-31 transmissions use >> something around 1000 Hz? > > In the discussion part of the Report and Order, the Commission made it > clear that the PSK31 signal *must* be located on the channel center - > there were not to be multiple signals per channel creating a "mini > PSK31 band". To comply with the Commission's intent, PSK31 should > be operated with a 1500 Hz audio tone and the dial set 1.5 KHz below > the channel center. If, as in the case of the K3, the PSK generator > uses a subcarrier other than 1500 Hz, the dial frequency must be > offset as needed to place the resulting PSK31 signal in the center > of the assigned channel. > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV > > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: FCC 60m Band Change Rules Published
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I would believe that the purpose of that requirement is that the primary
user can take over the channel without undue effort - contact one user and cause that user to cease and desist will get the task done. 73, Don W3FPR On 2/4/2012 5:56 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >> Did you see this indicated anywhere in the information that was in >> the Federal Register? > Among other places it is in the ARRL's report dated 21 November 2011: > the requirement is to transmit “only on the five center frequencies > specified”. In simple terms, that means the RF emission must be ON > the center frequency or equally spaced on either side not just > "somewhere in the channel". > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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