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Re: Hexkey

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Gil WA5YKK

Re: Hexkey

Gents;

I'm in the process of relearning how to use a paddle, having only
gotten the feel of a Vibroplex keyer three decades back from an old pal.
I'm now stumbling around with a Bencher paddle, the first of the line
that's of the "fall apart" design, and thus I have to be careful about
how I handle it, which distracts me from training myself to use "thumb
for dashes, finger for dits", and my brain isn't as young as it used to
be to do multitasking. Thus the question - does the Elecraft/Bencher
Hexkey actually perform better than "the original", and thus make the
price worth adding to my gear? I'd really like to have more versatility
in sending, not worrying about knocking the contact points off their
mounts, which are conical points for hinges, and the darn things are an
annoyance to have to remount.
Any input will be appreciated, many hours to go before I can become
fluent with my old favorite CW again, having been too lazy to get away
from voice until now!

Tnx, 73's
Gil WA5YKK

>
>
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STEPHEN W BANKS

Re: Re: Hexkey

Gil,

I've had a Hex for a year or so, and it's a good piece of hardware. I think
you'd find it to be quite satisfactory. I also have a couple of other
paddles, including a Schurr, and they're all good performers.

The Schurr has a dust cover which the Hex does not have (at least mine).
But both of them are HEAVY slugs, and they'll stay put!

Like most everything, it's a matter of what you are comfortable with.

73 es GL,

Steve
K0PQ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gil Gibbs" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 11:26 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Re: Hexkey

> Gents;
>
> I'm in the process of relearning how to use a paddle, having only
> gotten the feel of a Vibroplex keyer three decades back from an old pal.
> I'm now stumbling around with a Bencher paddle, the first of the line
> that's of the "fall apart" design, and thus I have to be careful about
> how I handle it, which distracts me from training myself to use "thumb
> for dashes, finger for dits", and my brain isn't as young as it used to
> be to do multitasking. Thus the question - does the Elecraft/Bencher
> Hexkey actually perform better than "the original", and thus make the
> price worth adding to my gear? I'd really like to have more versatility
> in sending, not worrying about knocking the contact points off their
> mounts, which are conical points for hinges, and the darn things are an
> annoyance to have to remount.
> Any input will be appreciated, many hours to go before I can become
> fluent with my old favorite CW again, having been too lazy to get away
> from voice until now!
>
> Tnx, 73's
> Gil WA5YKK
>
>
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
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>

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dave.wilburn

Re: Re: Hexkey

In reply to this post by Gil WA5YKK

My HexKey is the best investment I have made. Once I got the adjustment
so there was about a 1/8" distance between the plates and magnets, it
was awesome. Lots of weight, it doesn't move around on the bench on me
(and I have very large hands). I set it up and I have not had to do
anything with it since. Did I mention it is awesome? CW is the my
primary mode, but I do more listening for now than sending. I max out
my sending around 20 wpm, so I can only speak of its performance to that
rate.

I have had a bencher and a vibroplex. Both good setups in their own
way. The bencher I never did get adjusted so that I liked it. When it
was close, then it still "walked" on me. The vibroplex had lots of
adjustments, but it seemed like something was always changing on me. I
would get it dialed in and then it would change. It walked too. You
see lots of folks with these, and other various paddles or keys actually
attached to their bench. With the HexKey, I can set it out and use it,
and then set it back out the way and have room to work on my projects.
No muss no fuss.

It ranks right up there with my K2 as one of the best ham radio
investments that I have made in my short (6 years) time in the hobby.

David Wilburn
[hidden email]
K4DGW
K2 #5982

Gil Gibbs wrote:

> Gents;
>
> I'm in the process of relearning how to use a paddle, having only
> gotten the feel of a Vibroplex keyer three decades back from an old pal.
> I'm now stumbling around with a Bencher paddle, the first of the line
> that's of the "fall apart" design, and thus I have to be careful about
> how I handle it, which distracts me from training myself to use "thumb
> for dashes, finger for dits", and my brain isn't as young as it used to
> be to do multitasking. Thus the question - does the Elecraft/Bencher
> Hexkey actually perform better than "the original", and thus make the
> price worth adding to my gear? I'd really like to have more versatility
> in sending, not worrying about knocking the contact points off their
> mounts, which are conical points for hinges, and the darn things are an
> annoyance to have to remount.
> Any input will be appreciated, many hours to go before I can become
> fluent with my old favorite CW again, having been too lazy to get away
> from voice until now!
>
> Tnx, 73's
> Gil WA5YKK
>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
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>

Ron D'Eau Claire-2

RE: Re: Hexkey

In reply to this post by Gil WA5YKK

Why would you reverse the normal "thumb for dits, index finger for dashes"
setup? That's been standard since the first bugs and carried over unchanged
into the paddle/keyers.

It sounds like you are running into an essential difference in sending that
has shown up since keyers became common. Although both bugs and keyers
typically use side-by-side paddles, there are substantial differences in how
they are operated. A bug requires significant mechanical force and movement
to operate the dit pendulum to make dits and then stop them at the right
moment. Several designs have attempted to reduce the demands of a mechanical
bug, but it's still a huge amount of movement and energy compared to simply
accomplishing the contact closure a keyer needs.

Many newer CW ops who never used a bug developed a preference for very
close-spaced contacts that can be operated with a feather touch on the
paddles. That's completely at odds with the action needed for a bug.

Many paddles designed for use with keyers - particularly the earlier paddles
- featured movement and springs much like a mechanical bug: lots of throw
and relatively stiff springs. They were operated like a bug - usually
rolling the whole arm side to side with the fingers held steady to contact
the paddles with sufficient force without wearing out one's finger muscles!
The original Vibroplex paddles were one of those designs, like my Scotia and
HamKey paddles.

Then came the "light touch" designs designed to work with an absolute
minimum of movement and force. The Bencher was an early one. People used to
a mechanical bug tended to knock them apart just sending a CQ! Newer
operators learned to hold their arm still and lightly caress the paddles
with their fingertips. Used that way, they work fine.

I can't speak for the HexKey. I use my Speed-X or Vibroplex Bugs at home and
my KXPD1 paddles in the field where it's not practical to haul a bug. The
KXPD1 paddles, by the way, are able to deal with my fist without complaint.

The bottom line is that it all comes down to how you want to operate the
key: strong rolling fist like a bug operator or the feather touch of a keyer
operator? If the former, you need to find someone who has really pounded on
the HexKey to be sure it will survive long.

There was a secondary problem with the first Bencher that deserves checking
on any modern paddles. The Bencher uses a single spring that is stretched
around a chrome-plated post in the back. Bumping the key in just the wrong
way would dislodge that spring, causing it and the paddles to fly off of the
base! I suspect the designer assumed they'd be treated like a bug - NOT
bumped! The sensitive springs and pendulum of a bug can be damaged by
careless handling, but operators not used to bugs tended to assume the
paddles were as structurally sound as any straight key. Not so,
unfortunately, and dropping or banging a Bencher was inviting time spent
looking for the spring and paddle mechanisms behind the operating desk or on
the floor somewhere.

Ron AC7AC

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gil Gibbs
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:27 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Re: Hexkey

Gents;

I'm in the process of relearning how to use a paddle, having only
gotten the feel of a Vibroplex keyer three decades back from an old pal.
I'm now stumbling around with a Bencher paddle, the first of the line
that's of the "fall apart" design, and thus I have to be careful about
how I handle it, which distracts me from training myself to use "thumb
for dashes, finger for dits", and my brain isn't as young as it used to
be to do multitasking. Thus the question - does the Elecraft/Bencher
Hexkey actually perform better than "the original", and thus make the
price worth adding to my gear? I'd really like to have more versatility
in sending, not worrying about knocking the contact points off their
mounts, which are conical points for hinges, and the darn things are an
annoyance to have to remount.
Any input will be appreciated, many hours to go before I can become
fluent with my old favorite CW again, having been too lazy to get away
from voice until now!

Tnx, 73's
Gil WA5YKK

>
>
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Sandy W5TVW

Re: Re: Hexkey

Never used a Hexkey here. Tried the Bencher paddles and disliked them very
much. I have two paddles I use with automatic keyers: Old Vibroplex
"vibrokeyer" which is nothing more than a shortened and reworked "bug", and
the German "Palm Key". The Palmkey is very small, but has a great feel to
it. I don't use the iambic key "imbically". I'm from the very old school
of the Vibroplex bug and Johnson/Mac keys. Wish I still had a Mac Key! My
avorite Vibroplex "pattern" is the Champion/Lightning Bug "flat lever" key.
I had an Original and even a Presentation once. Didn't like them near as
much as the cheaper "flat pattern" ones. I also have a very beat up "Blue
Racer" which does a nice job, but always had to add weight to them to make
them go slower than 30 WPM dits!

73,
Sandy W5TVW
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 1:09 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Re: Hexkey

> Why would you reverse the normal "thumb for dits, index finger for dashes"
> setup? That's been standard since the first bugs and carried over
> unchanged
> into the paddle/keyers.
>
> It sounds like you are running into an essential difference in sending
> that
> has shown up since keyers became common. Although both bugs and keyers
> typically use side-by-side paddles, there are substantial differences in
> how
> they are operated. A bug requires significant mechanical force and
> movement
> to operate the dit pendulum to make dits and then stop them at the right
> moment. Several designs have attempted to reduce the demands of a
> mechanical
> bug, but it's still a huge amount of movement and energy compared to
> simply
> accomplishing the contact closure a keyer needs.
>
> Many newer CW ops who never used a bug developed a preference for very
> close-spaced contacts that can be operated with a feather touch on the
> paddles. That's completely at odds with the action needed for a bug.
>
> Many paddles designed for use with keyers - particularly the earlier
> paddles
> - featured movement and springs much like a mechanical bug: lots of throw
> and relatively stiff springs. They were operated like a bug - usually
> rolling the whole arm side to side with the fingers held steady to contact
> the paddles with sufficient force without wearing out one's finger
> muscles!
> The original Vibroplex paddles were one of those designs, like my Scotia
> and
> HamKey paddles.
>
> Then came the "light touch" designs designed to work with an absolute
> minimum of movement and force. The Bencher was an early one. People used
> to
> a mechanical bug tended to knock them apart just sending a CQ! Newer
> operators learned to hold their arm still and lightly caress the paddles
> with their fingertips. Used that way, they work fine.
>
> I can't speak for the HexKey. I use my Speed-X or Vibroplex Bugs at home
> and
> my KXPD1 paddles in the field where it's not practical to haul a bug. The
> KXPD1 paddles, by the way, are able to deal with my fist without
> complaint.
>
> The bottom line is that it all comes down to how you want to operate the
> key: strong rolling fist like a bug operator or the feather touch of a
> keyer
> operator? If the former, you need to find someone who has really pounded
> on
> the HexKey to be sure it will survive long.
>
> There was a secondary problem with the first Bencher that deserves
> checking
> on any modern paddles. The Bencher uses a single spring that is stretched
> around a chrome-plated post in the back. Bumping the key in just the wrong
> way would dislodge that spring, causing it and the paddles to fly off of
> the
> base! I suspect the designer assumed they'd be treated like a bug - NOT
> bumped! The sensitive springs and pendulum of a bug can be damaged by
> careless handling, but operators not used to bugs tended to assume the
> paddles were as structurally sound as any straight key. Not so,
> unfortunately, and dropping or banging a Bencher was inviting time spent
> looking for the spring and paddle mechanisms behind the operating desk or
> on
> the floor somewhere.
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gil Gibbs
> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:27 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Re: Hexkey
>
>
> Gents;
>
> I'm in the process of relearning how to use a paddle, having only
> gotten the feel of a Vibroplex keyer three decades back from an old pal.
> I'm now stumbling around with a Bencher paddle, the first of the line
> that's of the "fall apart" design, and thus I have to be careful about
> how I handle it, which distracts me from training myself to use "thumb
> for dashes, finger for dits", and my brain isn't as young as it used to
> be to do multitasking. Thus the question - does the Elecraft/Bencher
> Hexkey actually perform better than "the original", and thus make the
> price worth adding to my gear? I'd really like to have more versatility
> in sending, not worrying about knocking the contact points off their
> mounts, which are conical points for hinges, and the darn things are an
> annoyance to have to remount.
> Any input will be appreciated, many hours to go before I can become
> fluent with my old favorite CW again, having been too lazy to get away
> from voice until now!
>
> Tnx, 73's
> Gil WA5YKK
>
>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
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>
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
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> 7:58 PM
>
>

Ken Kopp

Re: Re: Hexkey

In reply to this post by Gil WA5YKK

Woah!

-IF- you typed correctly and meant to say what you said, you're
approaching it backwards .... although you'd be OK until you needed
to send with someone else's "correctly" set-up paddles.

"Benchers" are wonderful paddles, IMHO, but the Bencher Hex Key
is even better. A fine key!

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
(56 years of CW)
[hidden email]

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dave.wilburn

Re: Re: Hexkey

In reply to this post by Ron D'Eau Claire-2

You are right on Ron, as I try to use a light touch. I think I would
like many of the magnetic paddles. The HexKey is an affordable version
of the magnetic, that has an immense (5lbs if memory serves) weight.
Add to that the good looks and an Elecraft sticker to go with my K2, and
it gives it class.

David Wilburn
[hidden email]
K4DGW
K2 #5982

Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Why would you reverse the normal "thumb for dits, index finger for dashes"
> setup? That's been standard since the first bugs and carried over unchanged
> into the paddle/keyers.
>
> It sounds like you are running into an essential difference in sending that
> has shown up since keyers became common. Although both bugs and keyers
> typically use side-by-side paddles, there are substantial differences in how
> they are operated. A bug requires significant mechanical force and movement
> to operate the dit pendulum to make dits and then stop them at the right
> moment. Several designs have attempted to reduce the demands of a mechanical
> bug, but it's still a huge amount of movement and energy compared to simply
> accomplishing the contact closure a keyer needs.
>
> Many newer CW ops who never used a bug developed a preference for very
> close-spaced contacts that can be operated with a feather touch on the
> paddles. That's completely at odds with the action needed for a bug.
>
> Many paddles designed for use with keyers - particularly the earlier paddles
> - featured movement and springs much like a mechanical bug: lots of throw
> and relatively stiff springs. They were operated like a bug - usually
> rolling the whole arm side to side with the fingers held steady to contact
> the paddles with sufficient force without wearing out one's finger muscles!
> The original Vibroplex paddles were one of those designs, like my Scotia and
> HamKey paddles.
>
> Then came the "light touch" designs designed to work with an absolute
> minimum of movement and force. The Bencher was an early one. People used to
> a mechanical bug tended to knock them apart just sending a CQ! Newer
> operators learned to hold their arm still and lightly caress the paddles
> with their fingertips. Used that way, they work fine.
>
> I can't speak for the HexKey. I use my Speed-X or Vibroplex Bugs at home and
> my KXPD1 paddles in the field where it's not practical to haul a bug. The
> KXPD1 paddles, by the way, are able to deal with my fist without complaint.
>
> The bottom line is that it all comes down to how you want to operate the
> key: strong rolling fist like a bug operator or the feather touch of a keyer
> operator? If the former, you need to find someone who has really pounded on
> the HexKey to be sure it will survive long.
>
> There was a secondary problem with the first Bencher that deserves checking
> on any modern paddles. The Bencher uses a single spring that is stretched
> around a chrome-plated post in the back. Bumping the key in just the wrong
> way would dislodge that spring, causing it and the paddles to fly off of the
> base! I suspect the designer assumed they'd be treated like a bug - NOT
> bumped! The sensitive springs and pendulum of a bug can be damaged by
> careless handling, but operators not used to bugs tended to assume the
> paddles were as structurally sound as any straight key. Not so,
> unfortunately, and dropping or banging a Bencher was inviting time spent
> looking for the spring and paddle mechanisms behind the operating desk or on
> the floor somewhere.
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gil Gibbs
> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:27 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Re: Hexkey
>
>
> Gents;
>
> I'm in the process of relearning how to use a paddle, having only
> gotten the feel of a Vibroplex keyer three decades back from an old pal.
> I'm now stumbling around with a Bencher paddle, the first of the line
> that's of the "fall apart" design, and thus I have to be careful about
> how I handle it, which distracts me from training myself to use "thumb
> for dashes, finger for dits", and my brain isn't as young as it used to
> be to do multitasking. Thus the question - does the Elecraft/Bencher
> Hexkey actually perform better than "the original", and thus make the
> price worth adding to my gear? I'd really like to have more versatility
> in sending, not worrying about knocking the contact points off their
> mounts, which are conical points for hinges, and the darn things are an
> annoyance to have to remount.
> Any input will be appreciated, many hours to go before I can become
> fluent with my old favorite CW again, having been too lazy to get away
> from voice until now!
>
> Tnx, 73's
> Gil WA5YKK
>
>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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>

Darrell Bellerive-2

Re: Re: Hexkey

In reply to this post by Ron D'Eau Claire-2

On April 14, 2007 11:09 am, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> Why would you reverse the normal "thumb for dits, index finger for
> dashes" setup? That's been standard since the first bugs and carried over
> unchanged into the paddle/keyers.

I also use my thumb for dashes and index finger for dits. I find my index
finger is quicker and better controlled than my thumb. As I have no plans
to use a bug and most rigs now have the ability to swap paddles in software
it is not a problem. Plus it is easy to make a simple adapter cable to swap
the paddle leads to use someone else's paddle.

With a bug, I can see where one would need to use the force that the thumb
can more easily deliver to get that pendulum swinging, but that kind of
force is not needed for keyer paddles. I suspect that is why the dits where
on the thumb side of the bug for right hand users.

--
Darrell Bellerive
Amateur Radio Stations VA7TO and VE7CLA
Grand Forks, British Columbia, Canada
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Ron D'Eau Claire-2

RE: Re: Hexkey

Darrell wrote:

With a bug, I can see where one would need to use the force that the thumb
can more easily deliver to get that pendulum swinging, but that kind of
force is not needed for keyer paddles. I suspect that is why the dits where
on the thumb side of the bug for right hand users.

----------------------------

Quite possibly Darrell, and not just for right handed bug operators. Lefties
normally used left-handed bugs that had the mechanism reversed so the dits
continued to be made with the thumb. As a nominally left-handed person I had
that choice to make when I got my first bug. I chose to learn to send
right-handed on the bug although I had learned to send on a straight key
with my left hand. Left-handed bugs were expensive.

It's had the bonus of allowing me to make notes with my left hand while I'm
sending with my right.

As you say, it's unlikely that you'll ever be inconvenienced by learning to
send "backwards" now that electronic keyers are the norm.

Ron AC7AC

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Darwin, Keith

RE: Re: Hexkey

In reply to this post by Darrell Bellerive-2

I send backwards. When I built my first keyer, I had it in my head that
the thumb (thick, heavy) was used to send dashes. As soon as my Heath
keyer was done I discovered my mistake in logic but it was too late. I
had already begun to train my brain by sending "air morse" and the thumb
was tied to dashes.

My solution was very simple. I send left handed using a right-handed
paddle. If I operate someone else's station, I just slide the bug to
the left and away we go, no rewiring or changing menu settings. It also
allows me to keep the pen in the right hand for logging & such.

I've since learned to send with a bug which I do right handed. That
way, my bug technique and my paddle technique don't get confused in the
same hand.

- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb.100 -

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Arie Kleingeld PA3A

Hexkey and using vibroplex bug

When I was educated morsecode at school (nautical college) I operated
the straight up and down key with my right had. At that time, my teacher
had an elbug, which was a japanese modified paddle and a large
circuitboard with many transistors (it was in the mid 70's).
Every student wanted to try that elbug ofcourse. I was no different but
there was a big BUT.... My teacher Jaap would cut off my right hand if
ever touched the paddle with that same right (straight key) hand. Reason
for that, he said, was not to mix up the different keying ways and keep
up the high-quality keying capabilty with the straight key.
Well he trained me up to 25 wpm with the straight key and I passed the
exam with near perfect morsecode. On the side I built more than one
electronic key and kept operating that with my left hand.
I never regretted that and am still gratefull for so much wisdom of my
teacher. One nice spinn-off was e.g. that in contests (with no computer
at hand at that time) I could write with my rigt hand and send morse
with my left hand.

After a year or two I bought a Vibroplex bug. I started out operating it
with my left hand but that was very confusing so I changed the vibroplex
to my righ hand.
Many years later I still send lefthanded with a squeeze paddle and
righthanded with the vibroplex bug. I can change in a second without any
problem and never mix up the two ways of operating.

Thank you Jaap.

73
Arie PA3A

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