Elecraft

Re: Just Say No.

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N2EY

Re: Just Say No.

In a message dated 2/29/08 8:08:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:

> it was made in China?
>
No. Just....no.

73 de Jim, N2EY

**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.

(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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S Sacco

Re: Just Say No.

If, for the sake of argument (and this IS just a "what if" exercise,
after all), they COULD make a K3 somewhere else at a lower cost, and
offered you a choice:

1) U.S. made K3 with a collection of options that costs $2,500

or

2) "Somewhere else" made K3 with the same options that costs $1,500.
(Again, I'm making that number up).

Which would you choose?

If you chose #2, here's another question: Would you ever spend more
for the identical unit made in the U.S.? If so, how much more?

I'm very happy to have them here in the U.S., even if that means
acknowledging that California IS part of it. :-)

73,

Steve NN4X

On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 7:06 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In a message dated 2/29/08 8:08:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [hidden email] writes:
>
>
> > it was made in China?
> >
> No. Just....no.
>
> 73 de Jim, N2EY
>
>
>
> **************
> Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
>
> (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

Jon Kåre Hellan

Re: Just Say No.

S Sacco wrote:
> If you chose #2, here's another question: Would you ever spend more
> for the identical unit made in the U.S.? If so, how much more?

Certainly not. I don't care in *which* foreigh country it is made :-)

73
LA4RT Jon, Trondheim, Norway
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Tom McCulloch

Re: Just Say No.

In reply to this post by S Sacco

This is really off topic...but here goes.

First of all please don't try to question our patriotism, if you aren't then
please accept my apology for that comment.

Secondly, IMHO the option of choosing between number one and number two just
couldn't happen (I realize you said "what if"---but we could also say "what
if pigs could fly" -- they just can't -- except on another list, of course
:) )

The reason it can't happen is because ever since that little experiment in
Russia failed (Communism) the world has turn to a global society based upon
Capitalism (even China is embracing it, to a certain extent).

The rules of capitalism would call for the prices of item one and two to be
pretty darned close, if the quality of the two were comparable. If not, the
better quality product would disappear due to its price point being too high
OR the lesser quality product would go by the wayside because people would
see it for what it is (a piece of junk not worth the buying no matter how
appealing the price might be.) Before this disappearing act happened
though, the product which saw its sales go down would either A) in the case
of the better product, cut its production costs (and quality) to become
price competitive or B) in the case of the lesser quality product, makes
itself a better quality product but find the need to raise its price due to
added production costs.

However, the hypothesis posted here seems to be saying the quality is the
same...OK. Take a ride on any major U.S. highway and tell me how many
foreign built automobiles you see there...quite a few, I think you'd agree.
These cars are more or less comparably priced with American built cars in
the same class, because that is the price the market will bear. (Let's
assume for now that they are comparably built also...we won't get into that
discussion). Be assured that the price of those foreign cars is being set
by the marketplace. How can we be so sure? Because of the fact that they
are set in U.S. dollars and being built with (say) the Euro (we'll buy a
European car). Did you ever stop and think why the prices of foreign autos
has not skyrocketed with the recent dramatic fall of the US dollar versus
other currencies? It's because the market can't bear it. When the Euro and
the Dollar were (more or less) on a par with each, a one dollar sale raised
1 Euro. Today a one sale yields about 0.67 Euros. The German manufacturer
(I decided on a Mercedes :) ) is getting less money (in Euros) than he
was, although the price here in the States has stayed pretty constant (in
dollars). So why doesn't he raise his price?...well, he can't because no
one will spend that much for his product. OK, so how is he able to sell the
cars ... A) because he was making a lot of profit based on what the
Capitalistic market will allow him to charge in the past (having not much to
do with what it cost him to build the thing) and now his profit is more in
line or B) he can't and he will raise his prices, be less competitive and
probably lose a lot of his market share to the American built cars (this is
why the Fed is encouraging the dollar to drop against foreign
currencies---to discourage foreign trade with the US (making home built
products more attractive to US purchasers) and to encourage US exports
(things are really "cheap" in the eyes of the person buying things in Euros,
etc.). )

So I think this original post gets back to patriotism and those bumper
stickers that say "Buy American" and all which that implies.

I'm an American, all things being equal I buy American, but the question
posted here is moot, because Capitalism works and we're darn lucky to have
it.

Tom
WB2QDG

Note to Eric -- please pull this thread its *REALLY* OT.

----- Original Message -----
From: "S Sacco" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Just Say No.

> If, for the sake of argument (and this IS just a "what if" exercise,
> after all), they COULD make a K3 somewhere else at a lower cost, and
> offered you a choice:
>
> 1) U.S. made K3 with a collection of options that costs $2,500
>
> or
>
> 2) "Somewhere else" made K3 with the same options that costs $1,500.
> (Again, I'm making that number up).
>
> Which would you choose?
>
> If you chose #2, here's another question: Would you ever spend more
> for the identical unit made in the U.S.? If so, how much more?
>
> I'm very happy to have them here in the U.S., even if that means
> acknowledging that California IS part of it. :-)
>
> 73,
>
> Steve NN4X
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 7:06 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> In a message dated 2/29/08 8:08:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> [hidden email] writes:
>>
>>
>> > it was made in China?
>> >
>> No. Just....no.
>>
>> 73 de Jim, N2EY
>>
>>
>>
>> **************
>> Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
>>
>>
>> (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
>> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Tom McCulloch

Re: Just Say No.

In reply to this post by Jon Kåre Hellan

Jon -- Well said :)

Tom
wb2qdg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon K Hellan" <[hidden email]>
To: "S Sacco" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Just Say No.

>S Sacco wrote:
>> If you chose #2, here's another question: Would you ever spend more
>> for the identical unit made in the U.S.? If so, how much more?
>
> Certainly not. I don't care in *which* foreigh country it is made :-)
>
> 73
> LA4RT Jon, Trondheim, Norway
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

David Cutter

Re: Just Say No.

In reply to this post by S Sacco

Somebody once said "Don't let patriotism get in the way of a good decision"
or words that effect. I think they were talking about the "Buy America
Act." Whatever happened to that?

My $ are going to Elecraft - a foreign company.

David
G3UNA

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Jim-168

RE: Just Say No.

In reply to this post by Tom McCulloch

Geez!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tom McCulloch
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 9:54 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Just Say No.

This is really off topic...but here goes.

First of all please don't try to question our patriotism, if you aren't then

please accept my apology for that comment.

Secondly, IMHO the option of choosing between number one and number two just

couldn't happen (I realize you said "what if"---but we could also say "what
if pigs could fly" -- they just can't -- except on another list, of course
:) )

The reason it can't happen is because ever since that little experiment in
Russia failed (Communism) the world has turn to a global society based upon
Capitalism (even China is embracing it, to a certain extent).

The rules of capitalism would call for the prices of item one and two to be
pretty darned close, if the quality of the two were comparable. If not, the

better quality product would disappear due to its price point being too high

OR the lesser quality product would go by the wayside because people would
see it for what it is (a piece of junk not worth the buying no matter how
appealing the price might be.) Before this disappearing act happened
though, the product which saw its sales go down would either A) in the case
of the better product, cut its production costs (and quality) to become
price competitive or B) in the case of the lesser quality product, makes
itself a better quality product but find the need to raise its price due to
added production costs.

However, the hypothesis posted here seems to be saying the quality is the
same...OK. Take a ride on any major U.S. highway and tell me how many
foreign built automobiles you see there...quite a few, I think you'd agree.
These cars are more or less comparably priced with American built cars in
the same class, because that is the price the market will bear. (Let's
assume for now that they are comparably built also...we won't get into that
discussion). Be assured that the price of those foreign cars is being set
by the marketplace. How can we be so sure? Because of the fact that they
are set in U.S. dollars and being built with (say) the Euro (we'll buy a
European car). Did you ever stop and think why the prices of foreign autos
has not skyrocketed with the recent dramatic fall of the US dollar versus
other currencies? It's because the market can't bear it. When the Euro and

the Dollar were (more or less) on a par with each, a one dollar sale raised
1 Euro. Today a one sale yields about 0.67 Euros. The German manufacturer
(I decided on a Mercedes :) ) is getting less money (in Euros) than he
was, although the price here in the States has stayed pretty constant (in
dollars). So why doesn't he raise his price?...well, he can't because no
one will spend that much for his product. OK, so how is he able to sell the

cars ... A) because he was making a lot of profit based on what the
Capitalistic market will allow him to charge in the past (having not much to

do with what it cost him to build the thing) and now his profit is more in
line or B) he can't and he will raise his prices, be less competitive and
probably lose a lot of his market share to the American built cars (this is
why the Fed is encouraging the dollar to drop against foreign
currencies---to discourage foreign trade with the US (making home built
products more attractive to US purchasers) and to encourage US exports
(things are really "cheap" in the eyes of the person buying things in Euros,

etc.). )

So I think this original post gets back to patriotism and those bumper
stickers that say "Buy American" and all which that implies.

I'm an American, all things being equal I buy American, but the question
posted here is moot, because Capitalism works and we're darn lucky to have
it.

Tom
WB2QDG

Note to Eric -- please pull this thread its *REALLY* OT.

----- Original Message -----
From: "S Sacco" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Just Say No.

(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du
ffy/

>> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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Stewart Baker

Re: Just Say No.

In reply to this post by Tom McCulloch

What affects as all as Radio Amateurs is the increased level of
EMI caused by household items that include Switched Mode PSU's.

Within the EU these "should" have been tested to the relevant EMC
standards.

It is very apparent that there are a large number of devices which
are either defective, or have never been tested for EMC
compliance.

China is top of the league table for SM PSU's which cause
interference to radio services. In a large number of their power
supplies, components that were designed in to reduce emissions
have been omitted in manufacture for economic expediency.

For this reason, and not any Political motive, I avoid buying any
Chinese electronic products.

73
Stewart G3RXQ
Member RSGB EMC Committee

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 09:53:51 -0500, Tom McCulloch wrote:
> This is really off topic...but here goes.
>
> First of all please don't try to question our patriotism, if you
aren't then
> please accept my apology for that comment.
>
> Secondly, IMHO the option of choosing between number one and
number two just
> couldn't happen (I realize you said "what if"---but we could
also say "what
> if pigs could fly" -- they just can't -- except on another list,
of course
> :) )
>
> The reason it can't happen is because ever since that little
experiment in
> Russia failed (Communism) the world has turn to a global society
based upon
> Capitalism (even China is embracing it, to a certain extent).
>
> The rules of capitalism would call for the prices of item one
and two to be
> pretty darned close, if the quality of the two were comparable.
If not, the
> better quality product would disappear due to its price point
being too high
> OR the lesser quality product would go by the wayside because
people would
> see it for what it is (a piece of junk not worth the buying no
matter how
> appealing the price might be.) Before this disappearing act
happened
> though, the product which saw its sales go down would either A)
in the case
> of the better product, cut its production costs (and quality) to
become
> price competitive or B) in the case of the lesser quality
product, makes
> itself a better quality product but find the need to raise its
price due to
> added production costs.
>
> However, the hypothesis posted here seems to be saying the
quality is the
> same...OK. Take a ride on any major U.S. highway and tell me
how many
> foreign built automobiles you see there...quite a few, I think
you'd agree.
> These cars are more or less comparably priced with American
built cars in
> the same class, because that is the price the market will bear.
(Let's
> assume for now that they are comparably built also...we won't
get into that
> discussion). Be assured that the price of those foreign cars is
being set
> by the marketplace. How can we be so sure? Because of the fact
that they
> are set in U.S. dollars and being built with (say) the Euro
(we'll buy a
> European car). Did you ever stop and think why the prices of
foreign autos
> has not skyrocketed with the recent dramatic fall of the US
dollar versus
> other currencies? It's because the market can't bear it. When
the Euro and
> the Dollar were (more or less) on a par with each, a one dollar
sale raised
> 1 Euro. Today a one sale yields about 0.67 Euros. The German
manufacturer
> (I decided on a Mercedes :) ) is getting less money (in Euros)
than he
> was, although the price here in the States has stayed pretty
constant (in
> dollars). So why doesn't he raise his price?...well, he can't
because no
> one will spend that much for his product. OK, so how is he able
to sell the
> cars ... A) because he was making a lot of profit based on what
the
> Capitalistic market will allow him to charge in the past (having
not much to
> do with what it cost him to build the thing) and now his profit
is more in
> line or B) he can't and he will raise his prices, be less
competitive and
> probably lose a lot of his market share to the American built
cars (this is
> why the Fed is encouraging the dollar to drop against foreign
> currencies---to discourage foreign trade with the US (making
home built
> products more attractive to US purchasers) and to encourage US
exports
> (things are really "cheap" in the eyes of the person buying
things in Euros,
> etc.). )
>
> So I think this original post gets back to patriotism and those
bumper
> stickers that say "Buy American" and all which that implies.
>
> I'm an American, all things being equal I buy American, but the
question
> posted here is moot, because Capitalism works and we're darn
lucky to have

> it.
>
> Tom
> WB2QDG
>
> Note to Eric -- please pull this thread its *REALLY* OT.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "S Sacco" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 8:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Just Say No.
>
>
>> If, for the sake of argument (and this IS just a "what if"

exercise,
>> after all), they COULD make a K3 somewhere else at a lower
cost, and
>> offered you a choice:
>>
>> 1) U.S. made K3 with a collection of options that costs $2,500
>>
>> or
>>
>> 2) "Somewhere else" made K3 with the same options that costs
$1,500.
>> (Again, I'm making that number up).
>>
>> Which would you choose?
>>
>> If you chose #2, here's another question: Would you ever spend
more
>> for the identical unit made in the U.S.? If so, how much more?
>>
>> I'm very happy to have them here in the U.S., even if that
means

>> acknowledging that California IS part of it. :-)
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Steve NN4X
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 7:06 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> In a message dated 2/29/08 8:08:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>>> [hidden email] writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>> it was made in China?
>>>>
>>> No. Just....no.
>>>
>>> 73 de Jim, N2EY
>>>
>>>
>>> **************
>>> Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
>>>
>>>
>>>

(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel
-campos-duffy/

>>> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Post to: [hidden email]
>>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Just Say No.

Administrator

In reply to this post by N2EY

-----Original Message-----
My $ are going to Elecraft - a foreign company.

David
G3UNA
----

And we really appreciate it!

Based on our daily shipments ( and incoming phone calls and emails) we are supporting a world wide international customer base as a signicant percentage of our business. K3s are now all over the world!

To just name just a few from the last several weeks: All of Eu, Canada, Ukraine, Russia, Poland, JA, TI, South Africa, Thailand, VK, ZL, Hong Kong, Mexico and even uninhabited islands like VP6DX!)

To be successful in today's marketplace we -have- to continually think on a global basis. With the Internet communications channel, our direct customers are everywhere. - And they treat us like we are next door. (Though some forget we have to sleep once and a while and live in a different time zone.. ;-)

73,

Eric WA6HHQ
_..._

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Tom-5

Re: Just Say No.

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:

>K3s are now all over the world!
>.....and even uninhabited islands like VP6DX!)

Eric, I'm one of the biggest putz low band operators there are, and
on cw it's even worse. But I had fun working VP6DX 5 times (3 cw,
2-ssb), using my K3 barefoot into a dipole. What made it even cooler was
that the contacts where K3 to K3. The ops at Ducie were very nice to
"struggling" ops. Thank you so much to them.

But to say it simply, thanks to Elecraft for putting some fun back
into ham radio.

tom k8tb

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