Re: K1 Internally Generated Signal (Long Response)

[Mike Morrow-3]

Jim / KI9M wrote:

> Page 58 refers to "internally-generated band edge signals".
>
> I can't seem to find it. Does the K1 really have an internally
> generated signal?

There is no such signal there that is purposely designed for such
use.  But there is a signal at the *lower* edge of a band beginning
at an integral MHz value that is marginally useful.

Here's where it comes from:

The front panel board has a 4000 kHz crystal X1 to clock the operation
of the MCU U1.  The MCU generates an internal clock that is one-quarter
of X1...or 1000 kHz.  That would generate a bothersome spurious signal
at the bottom of most HF ham bands, so the actual operating frequency
of X1 is padded down below 4.000 MHz with C1 and C2 to keep these spurs
below the ham bands.  

On my K1, and others typically, X1 operates very near 3999.5 kHz.  
The spurs thus occur every ( 3999.5 / 4 ) kHz or every 999.875 kHz
throughout the tuning range of the K1.  For my K1:

The spur just below  7000 kHz occurs at  7 x 999.875 =  6999.125 kHz.
The spur just below 10000 kHz occurs at 10 x 999.875 =  9998.750 kHz.  
The spur just below 14000 kHz occurs at 14 x 999.875 = 13998.250 kHz.
The spur just below 21000 kHz occurs at 21 x 999.875 = 20997.375 kHz.

It can be seen that the difference in spur frequency from exact band
lower edge frequency is not a fixed value, but one that gets larger
as frequency is increased.

To use these spurs to calibrate the K1 frequency display it must be
remembered that, properly set up, the K1 LCD should show *transmitter*
frequency.  The K1 receiver functions in LSB mode on all bands with
existing filter board designs.  This means that if the receiver is
zero-beat with 10000 kHz WWV, the transmitter should actually be set
to transmit a signal that is *below* 10000 kHz by the amount of CW
offset for which the K1 is adjusted.  My K1 uses an CW offset of
600 Hz.  That means that when my K1 is zero beat with 10000 MHz WWV,
the frequency displayed should be 600 Hz below 10000 kHz, or 9999.6
kHz.

Thus, the frequency displayed on my K1 when:

the  6999.125 kHz spur is zero beat should be  6998.525 kHz,
the  9998.750 kHz spur is zero beat should be  9998.150 kHz,
the 13998.250 kHz spur is zero beat should be 13997.650 kHz,
the 20997.375 kHz spur is zero beat should be 20996.775 kHz.

If you are using a offset value that is not 600 Hz, substitute
your offset in place of the 600 Hz used in my example above.

For better accuracy in calculating the spur frequency, the
oscillation frequency of X1 could be determined to greater
accuracy and precision than I have used above, with an accurate
receiver.

If the K1 is using the 80 kHz VFO span option, on 30m it will
not be possible to tune to hear the spur just below 10000 kHz.

If the K1 filter board is tuned to 17m, it will not be possible
to tune to hear the spur just below 18000 kHz.

If the K1 filter board is tuned to 80m, it will not be possible
to tune to hear the spur just below 4000 kHz.

These spurs are fairly weak, and the K1 has a pretty good four-pole
crystal filter that makes it impossible to hear the other side
of the spur to make an accurate zero beat.  And obviously one isn't
going to get closer than a hundred Hertz for any frequency that is
displayed on the K1...never the nice exact numbers used in the
examples above.  A much better approach is to use a much stronger
and accurate external calibration signal.  I use a ham transceiver
that has a TXCO and can generate strong cal signals where ever I
want with very good accuracy.

Also, due to the weakness of these signals, they are completely
useless for performing an initial alignment of a K1 filter board.

> I'm very happy with my new rig. My CW is a little rusty, but will
> improve with practice.

The K1 is an fantastic rig.  Number 175 is still my favorite after
13 years.

73,
Mike / KK5F

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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Mike,

While what you say about the K1 display indicating the transmit carrier
frequency is technically correct, I believe you are over-complicating
things.  The K1 (and all Elecraft products) properly calibrated will
indicate the transmit carrier frequency - so when receiving 10 MHz  WWV,
the display should indicate 10000.0 kHz, and the transmit frequency will
be at that same frequency (no, one should not transmit at that frequency).

If one follows the instructions in the manual, everything will "fall
into place" - I paraphrase:
1) change to FL3 and set the BFO trimmer (C20) to center the received
noise in the filter passband at the desired sidetone pitch.  Note that
this is quickly observed by using an audio spectrum analyzer (such as
Spectrogram) running on the PC and connecting the headphone output to
the computer soundcard.  The antenna input should be broadband noise,
not a single frequency signal.
2) turn the switch on the bottom of the RF board to the TEST position
and adjust the TX oscillator trimmer C13 to place the signal at the same
pitch as the sidetone pitch.
3) Tune to a signal of known frequency (for each band) and change the
CAL OPF menu parameter so the displayed frequency is the same as the
signal frequency.  Note, tune the signal to the same sidetone pitch as
you used above.

Note that these steps should be done in the order listed, each step
depends on the one before it.

Done, no "fussing" - the key is that you tune a received signal to the
same pitch as the sidetone - the rest is automatic.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/29/2013 2:46 AM, Mike Morrow wrote:

> Jim / KI9M wrote:
>
> To use these spurs to calibrate the K1 frequency display it must be
> remembered that, properly set up, the K1 LCD should show *transmitter*
> frequency. The K1 receiver functions in LSB mode on all bands with
> existing filter board designs. This means that if the receiver is
> zero-beat with 10000 kHz WWV, the transmitter should actually be set
> to transmit a signal that is *below* 10000 kHz by the amount of CW
> offset for which the K1 is adjusted. My K1 uses an CW offset of 600
> Hz. That means that when my K1 is zero beat with 10000 MHz WWV, the
> frequency displayed should be 600 Hz below 10000 kHz, or 9999.6 kHz.

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[Mike Morrow-3]

Don wrote:

> While what you say about the K1 display indicating the transmit carrier
> frequency is technically correct, I believe you are over-complicating
> things.  The K1 (and all Elecraft products) properly calibrated will
> indicate the transmit carrier frequency - so when receiving 10 MHz WWV,
> the display should indicate 10000.0 kHz, and the transmit frequency will
> be at that same frequency...

Hi Don,

I agree completely with the contents of your post.  But...the last sentence
quoted above is true **for the CW-only K1** only for the reception of a
**CW signal** that is producing a tone in the user's headphones that is
equal to the CW offset between the receiver zero-beat frequency and the
transmitter frequency.

I'll use an example.  Assume that a signal being received and the K1's
transmitted signal are both exactly on 10000.0 kHz.  The properly-adjusted
K1 display shows transmit frequency at all times (10000.0 kHz).  Next,
assume this K1's CW offset is 600 Hz.  In order to hear a beat frequency
(AF tone) equal to 600 Hz, the K1 LSB receiver's *zero-beat* frequency
must be 600 Hz *above* the received 10000.0 kHz signal...10000.6 kHz.
The K1's LCD indicates 10000.0 kHz, but a signal received on 10000.0 kHz
produces a 600 Hz beat note.  The only signal that would produce zero-beat
in this K1 is 10000.6 kHz...the receiver zero-beat frequency.

But as you have said, we do *not* define the K1 CW receive frequency as
the frequency of a signal (10000.6 kHz) that would produce zero-beat.  We
define it as the frequency of a signal (10000.0 kHz) that would produce
an AF tone equal to the CW offset (600 Hz).  We reach the same conclusion
that the 10000.0 kHz displayed is correct for both transmit and receive,
regardless of how we approach it.  :-)

OTOH, when we use this K1 to copy the LSB of WWV's 10000.0 kHz *voice* signal,
we have no mode switch on the CW-only K1 as we have with multi-mode receivers
that eliminates offsets in receiver frequency and displayed frequency.  We
*must* tune the K1 receiver to zero-beat WWV's carrier (10000.0 kHz) in order
to copy its LSB voice signal.  Since the K1 LCD shows transmitter frequency
...0.6 kHz below the receiver zero-beat frequency...this K1 will display 9999.4
kHz as we copy those solar terrestrial indices at 18 minutes past the hour. :-)
If we transmit while zero-beat with WWV, anyone nearby who is listening to
WWV's LSB voice will hear a 600 Hz tone resulting from our 9999.4 kHz signal.

> If one follows the instructions in the manual, everything will
> "fall into place" ... Done, no "fussing" - the key is that you tune
> a received signal to the same pitch as the sidetone - the rest is
> automatic.

We again have no differences.  Once in a while someone will come along
who thinks that setting the K1 sidetone in the menu will also set the
CW offset as well.  No such luck...that would be nice, but think of
the added complexity to make that happen in a K1!

I do not use Spectrogram...it's too sophisticated for me!  

It really wasn't my intention to raise a discussion of K1 transmit and
receive definitions and offset adjustments.  I just thought it necessary
to explain why the spurs I listed in the original posting,

> The spur just below  7000 kHz occurs at  7 x 999.875 =  6999.125 kHz.
> The spur just below 10000 kHz occurs at 10 x 999.875 =  9998.750 kHz.  
> The spur just below 14000 kHz occurs at 14 x 999.875 = 13998.250 kHz.
> The spur just below 21000 kHz occurs at 21 x 999.875 = 20997.375 kHz.

show up at zero beat on the LCD of a properly-adjusted K1 with 600 Hz
offset as follows:

> the  6999.125 kHz spur...zero beat should be  6998.525 kHz,
> the  9998.750 kHz spur...zero beat should be  9998.150 kHz,
> the 13998.250 kHz spur...zero beat should be 13997.650 kHz,
> the 20997.375 kHz spur...zero beat should be 20996.775 kHz.

I could have said that instead of a zero-beat when tuned any of the four
frequencies shown above, my example K1 will produce a 600 Hz tone when
tuned to 6999.125, 9998.750, 13998.250, or 20997.375 kHz.  That avoids
the detail of CW offsets and sidebands.  But I can never tune for any
AF frequency just using my ears more accurately than tuning for zero-beat.
Dave Benson 15 years ago designed the firmware in his wonderful DSW-series
of mono-band CW rigs to require that the CW offset be set while comparing
two AF signals, one at 800 Hz, back and forth until they were both at
800 Hz.  Nasty work!  That and mode B-only iambic keying were about the
only things I did not like about the several DSWs that I built.

Thanks for your comments and for reading my approach.

73,
Mike / KK5F
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Mike,

Are you misinterpreting the meaning of "zero-beat"?
Zero-beat does not mean tuning the signal to zero audio frequency.

It does mean that the signal is tuned to the same pitch as another tone
(the sidetone).  When the two tones are close in frequency, you will
hear a 3rd low pitched tone - that is the 'beat note'. Its frequency
will be the difference between the two tones, and will be heard as a WOW
WOW sound.

When the WOW WOW tone gets slower and slower and finally the rate goes
to zero, that is "zero beat".

So yes, when properly calibrated, and tuned to the carrier of WWV at 10
MHz, the K1 frequency display is reading 10000.0 which is where the K1
will transmit.  If the BFO trim cap has been set properly, that carrier
will be heard as a tone equal to the frequency you set as your preferred
sidetone pitch.

Yes, if you 'do the math' on the VFO, Pre-mixer crystal and the BFO
frequencies, you will find the frequency they calculate to is different
from the dial frequency by exactly the pitch of the received tone, but
that is not relevant to the use or the calibration of the K1.  One does
not have to consider whether the receiver is using LSB mixing or USB.  
The offset is automatic when you set the BFO trimmer cap correctly.  The
filter center is 4913 kHz (plus or minus a bit depending on the exact
crystal set used), and to produce a 600 Hz tone, the BFO must be
displaced by 600 Hz from that filter center - once that is done, the
user does not have to be aware of the rest of the mixing frequencies -
the dial reads the carrier frequency, pure and simple.

BTW, the K1 and many of Dave Benson's transceivers are quite similar -
two Gilbert cell mixers and separate adjustments for the TX oscillator
and the BFO.  The SWL series is the closest to the K1 design, but that
does not inject the pre-mixer for mixing the VFO with a crystal for
multiband use as the K1 does.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/29/2013 5:05 PM, Mike Morrow wrote:

> Don wrote:
>
>> While what you say about the K1 display indicating the transmit carrier
>> frequency is technically correct, I believe you are over-complicating
>> things.  The K1 (and all Elecraft products) properly calibrated will
>> indicate the transmit carrier frequency - so when receiving 10 MHz WWV,
>> the display should indicate 10000.0 kHz, and the transmit frequency will
>> be at that same frequency...
> Hi Don,
>
> I agree completely with the contents of your post.  But...the last sentence
> quoted above is true **for the CW-only K1** only for the reception of a
> **CW signal** that is producing a tone in the user's headphones that is
> equal to the CW offset between the receiver zero-beat frequency and the
> transmitter frequency.
>
> I'll use an example.  Assume that a signal being received and the K1's
> transmitted signal are both exactly on 10000.0 kHz.  The properly-adjusted
> K1 display shows transmit frequency at all times (10000.0 kHz).  Next,
> assume this K1's CW offset is 600 Hz.  In order to hear a beat frequency
> (AF tone) equal to 600 Hz, the K1 LSB receiver's *zero-beat* frequency
> must be 600 Hz *above* the received 10000.0 kHz signal...10000.6 kHz.
> The K1's LCD indicates 10000.0 kHz, but a signal received on 10000.0 kHz
> produces a 600 Hz beat note.  The only signal that would produce zero-beat
> in this K1 is 10000.6 kHz...the receiver zero-beat frequency.
>
> But as you have said, we do *not* define the K1 CW receive frequency as
> the frequency of a signal (10000.6 kHz) that would produce zero-beat.  We
> define it as the frequency of a signal (10000.0 kHz) that would produce
> an AF tone equal to the CW offset (600 Hz).  We reach the same conclusion
> that the 10000.0 kHz displayed is correct for both transmit and receive,
> regardless of how we approach it.  :-)
>
> OTOH, when we use this K1 to copy the LSB of WWV's 10000.0 kHz *voice* signal,
> we have no mode switch on the CW-only K1 as we have with multi-mode receivers
> that eliminates offsets in receiver frequency and displayed frequency.  We
> *must* tune the K1 receiver to zero-beat WWV's carrier (10000.0 kHz) in order
> to copy its LSB voice signal.  Since the K1 LCD shows transmitter frequency
> ...0.6 kHz below the receiver zero-beat frequency...this K1 will display 9999.4
> kHz as we copy those solar terrestrial indices at 18 minutes past the hour. :-)
> If we transmit while zero-beat with WWV, anyone nearby who is listening to
> WWV's LSB voice will hear a 600 Hz tone resulting from our 9999.4 kHz signal.
>
>> If one follows the instructions in the manual, everything will
>> "fall into place" ... Done, no "fussing" - the key is that you tune
>> a received signal to the same pitch as the sidetone - the rest is
>> automatic.
> We again have no differences.  Once in a while someone will come along
> who thinks that setting the K1 sidetone in the menu will also set the
> CW offset as well.  No such luck...that would be nice, but think of
> the added complexity to make that happen in a K1!
>
> I do not use Spectrogram...it's too sophisticated for me!
>
> It really wasn't my intention to raise a discussion of K1 transmit and
> receive definitions and offset adjustments.  I just thought it necessary
> to explain why the spurs I listed in the original posting,
>
>> The spur just below  7000 kHz occurs at  7 x 999.875 =  6999.125 kHz.
>> The spur just below 10000 kHz occurs at 10 x 999.875 =  9998.750 kHz.
>> The spur just below 14000 kHz occurs at 14 x 999.875 = 13998.250 kHz.
>> The spur just below 21000 kHz occurs at 21 x 999.875 = 20997.375 kHz.
> show up at zero beat on the LCD of a properly-adjusted K1 with 600 Hz
> offset as follows:
>
>> the  6999.125 kHz spur...zero beat should be  6998.525 kHz,
>> the  9998.750 kHz spur...zero beat should be  9998.150 kHz,
>> the 13998.250 kHz spur...zero beat should be 13997.650 kHz,
>> the 20997.375 kHz spur...zero beat should be 20996.775 kHz.
> I could have said that instead of a zero-beat when tuned any of the four
> frequencies shown above, my example K1 will produce a 600 Hz tone when
> tuned to 6999.125, 9998.750, 13998.250, or 20997.375 kHz.  That avoids
> the detail of CW offsets and sidebands.  But I can never tune for any
> AF frequency just using my ears more accurately than tuning for zero-beat.
> Dave Benson 15 years ago designed the firmware in his wonderful DSW-series
> of mono-band CW rigs to require that the CW offset be set while comparing
> two AF signals, one at 800 Hz, back and forth until they were both at
> 800 Hz.  Nasty work!  That and mode B-only iambic keying were about the
> only things I did not like about the several DSWs that I built.
>
> Thanks for your comments and for reading my approach.
>
>

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