Re: K3 Broken AF knob and bad service to get a replacement.

[Mike K2MK]

Tord:

Sorry for your difficulties. I'm sure Elecraft will contact you and make
things right.

I have a factory assembled K3 from Dec 2008 and both allen wrenches were
included in a small envelope.

73,
Mike K2MK

 

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[Mike Reublin]

I think I remember a post not too long ago from the guys at Elecraft
that the composition of the material the knobs are made of had been
changed. My rig is SN3539, and so far, no exploding knobs. I'm positive
they'll take care of you.

73, Mike NF4L

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[P.B. Christensen]

One excellent long-term solution was proposed by James, K2QI.  I have since
ordered my own set of nested aluminum knobs for the RF/AF controls and they
are far better in fit, finish, and usability than Elecraft's stock knob set.
But, they are also relatively expensive.

The knobs are machined from solid aluminum, anodized in black, and both the
inner and outer knobs extend slightly further out to keep the fingers from
accidentally touching the opposite knob.  I've copied James' prior post
below that includes the Mouser part number:

K2QI:

"I received my machined concentric knobs today from Mouser, and as
I would write back to the group with my findings.  First of all, the
knobs are incredibly well made and appear to be anodized black. There is a
 fat, white, indicator stripe on the barrel. There are also two set screws.
The knobs fit PERFECTLY on the K3 with absolutely no shimming or
modification required.  Just take off the old plastic knobs and replace with
these.

The knobs themselves are expensive - somewhere in the neighborhood of 13
or 14 dollars per pair, but in my opinion well worth the investment.  The
outer diameter and length of the knobs themselves are also a tad larger than
the OEM plastic pieces, making adjustments easier for fat-fingered types.

Anyway, this is the [Mouser] part number again for anyone interested:
506-KN5700B1/4

73 de James K2QI"

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[Julian, G4ILO]

P.B. Christensen wrote

One excellent long-term solution was proposed by James, K2QI.

[snip]

Anyway, this is the [Mouser] part number again for anyone interested:
506-KN5700B1/4

In that thread James posted a coouple of pictures of those knobs. One is here: http://jamespaulsarte.com/temp/ham/knob1.jpg .

To be honest I don't think they suit the look of the K3. They don't even match the other knobs. It might be a solution in ten years time when a knob breaks and Elecraft doesn't make them any more, but that's the situation I'd really like to avoid.

[P.B. Christensen]

> To be honest I don't think they suit the look of the K3. They don't even
> match the other knobs.

That was my thought until I actually installed the knob set.  

Paul, W9AC
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[Mike Harris]

G'day,

I guess some folks just treat the gear rough and Gorilla the screws
down.  I was surprised to see a bug being knocked about the table in
the K5D video.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO
K3 #345 (original knobs)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian, G4ILO" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Broken AF knob and bad service togeta
replacement.

>
>
>
> P.B. Christensen wrote:
>>
>> One excellent long-term solution was proposed by James, K2QI.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> Anyway, this is the [Mouser] part number again for anyone
>> interested:
>> 506-KN5700B1/4
>>
>
> In that thread James posted a coouple of pictures of those knobs.
> One is
> here: http://jamespaulsarte.com/temp/ham/knob1.jpg .
>
> To be honest I don't think they suit the look of the K3. They
> don't even
> match the other knobs. It might be a solution in ten years time
> when a knob
> breaks and Elecraft doesn't make them any more, but that's the
> situation I'd
> really like to avoid.
>
> -----
> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
> * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
> * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
> * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

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[David Gilbert]

My knobs broke after I had owned My K3 for about six months and Elecraft
quickly sent me a replacement set, but I elected to buy the Mouser knobs
anyway and I love them (many thanks to James).  Yes, they look a bit
different but I value functionality over appearance.  Besides, the
Mouser knobs actually look better than the stock K3 knobs and I may some
day decide to swap them all out if I can find the right ones.

73,
Dave   AB7E

p.s.  Didn't Eric or Wayne just ask everyone to top post to this reflector?



Julian, G4ILO wrote:

>
> P.B. Christensen wrote:
>  
>> One excellent long-term solution was proposed by James, K2QI.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> Anyway, this is the [Mouser] part number again for anyone interested:
>> 506-KN5700B1/4
>>
>>    
>
> In that thread James posted a coouple of pictures of those knobs. One is
> here: http://jamespaulsarte.com/temp/ham/knob1.jpg .
>
> To be honest I don't think they suit the look of the K3. They don't even
> match the other knobs. It might be a solution in ten years time when a knob
> breaks and Elecraft doesn't make them any more, but that's the situation I'd
> really like to avoid.
>
> -----
> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
> * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
> * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
> * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html
>
>  

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[Phil Hystad]

> p.s.  Didn't Eric or Wayne just ask everyone to top post to this reflector?
>

Yes, but sometimes other formats just seem to be so fitting to the existing
structure of the message.
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[P.B. Christensen]

Also, if the electrical AF/RF knob swap is done, the slightly longer inner
knob on the Sub AF control makes its use as a fader between Main AF and Sub
AF a dream to use.  Details below.

Paul, W9AC

> BTW, the mod is likely possible with a future F/W change to allow changes
> just as the current menu allows for 'Normal" and 'Balance' audio
> functions.
> If that ever happens, the wiring mod is very easily reversible in less
> than
> a minute with no evidence left behind.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Christensen" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 12:27 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 AF/RF Mod
>
>
>> Okay, I couldn't leave well enough alone...
>>
>> Yesterday morning, I was working a T30 station split on 40m with the K3's
>> Sub Rx and became a bit unnerved with the manipulation of the K3's "Sub
>> AF"
>> control when balancing between Main and Sub receivers.  Multiple quick
>> reaches for the "balance" function on the upper Sub AF control's outer
>> ring
>> was causing me to accidentally come in contact with the other controls.
>> Looking at the K3 schematic, all four controls (Main AF, Sub AF, Main RF,
>> and Sub RF) are all 10K in value.  Even when the K3's AF control function
>> menu is selected for "Normal," rather than AF "Balance," a similar issue
>> can
>> arise when trying to quickly balance the Main/Sub AF controls on one
>> shaft.
>>
>> I removed the front panel to inspect the Front Panel PCB and thought a
>> swap
>> of the Sub AF and Main RF controls could be easily accomplished.  Here's
>> a
>> "before" photo of the PCB area:
>>
>> http://72.52.250.47/images/K3-AF-1.jpg
>>
>> And the "after" wiring...
>>
>> http://72.52.250.47/images/K3-AF-2.jpg
>>
>> A hot glue gun can be used near the 5-pin header to keep the two ribbon
>> cables from interfering with future front panel extractions and
>> insertions.
>> Now, the upper controls handles Main AF (inner) + Main RF/SQL (outer).
>> The
>> lower controls handle Sub AF/Balance (inner) and Sub RF (outer).
>>
>> When I engage split operations and use the Sub Rx, manipulating the
>> balance
>> between Main AF and Sub RF is easier with a bit less propensity to
>> accidentally come in contact with the adjacent controls since: (1) the
>> Main/Sub AF balance function is now on the inner concentric control and
>> extends out further from the front panel than the outer concentric ring;
>> and
>> (2) the balance function is now moved to the bottom where the hand can
>> approach the control from the bottom rather than directly in-line with
>> the
>> knob.
>>
>> If needed later for a sale, reversal of the mod is very easy.  Certainly,
>> this mod is not for everyone.  However, I would think that in later PCB
>> revisions, Elecraft could provide the option of selecting the existing
>> format or the modified format at the time of purchase -- or to the
>> builder
>> who simply makes a few header pin changes during construction.
>>
>> Of course, the front panel legends also need changing and that's probably
>> the biggest drawback to the mod.  In my case, I will use new legends
>> printed
>> from a Brother 'P-Touch' printer -- printed with white lettering against
>> black background tape.   Font size and type is adjustable to match the
>> existing legends on the K3.
>>
>> Paul, W9AC
>>
>>

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[Paul-285]

Is there a Mouser black metal knob replacement for the 4 knobs to the
right of those two so that the whole group of 6 sets look the same?

> > One excellent long-term solution was proposed by James, K2QI.
> > Anyway, this is the [Mouser] part number again for anyone interested:
> > 506-KN5700B1/4
>
>In that thread James posted a coouple of pictures of those knobs. One is
>here: http://jamespaulsarte.com/temp/ham/knob1.jpg .
>
>To be honest I don't think they suit the look of the K3. They don't even
>match the other knobs. It might be a solution in ten years time when a knob
>breaks and Elecraft doesn't make them any more, but that's the situation I'd
>really like to avoid.

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[wayne burdick]

I may be biased (I designed the K3's knobs, switches, LCD, and  
packaging with intent to have everything match, aesthetically), but I  
strongly recommend *not* changing the knobs to anything else.

If you're only doing it because you have one that's defective, please  
request a replacement from Elecraft. We had a batch manufactured with  
the wrong material, and I thought we had sent replacements to all  
affected K3 owners, but perhaps not.

If you're doing it because you'd like machined aluminum knobs rather  
than plastic, send me a private email telling me how much you'd be  
willing to pay for a complete set of them :)  It is certainly possible  
to have them made from aluminum, but the cost would be dramatically  
higher. Off the top of my head I'm guessing it would have added  
$150-200 to the cost of the radio.

Mouser aluminum knobs (or any other off-the-shelf knobs) will not  
match the K3. I'd rather design new ones from scratch.

But I personally like the molded plastic knobs, which are easy on the  
fingers.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


[hidden email] wrote:

>> To be honest I don't think they suit the look of the K3. They don't  
>> even
>> match the other knobs. It might be a solution in ten years time  
>> when a knob
>> breaks and Elecraft doesn't make them any more, but that's the  
>> situation I'd
>> really like to avoid.



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[Grant Youngman]

>>
>> To be honest I don't think they suit the look of the K3. They don't even
>> match the other knobs. It might be a solution in ten years time when a knob
>> breaks and Elecraft doesn't make them any more, but that's the situation I'd
>> really like to avoid.

Elecraft has made available a new composition knob that will apparently cause the set screws to pulverize before the plastic cracks.  Just contact support.

I'm wondering what all the hoot is, still, about knobs. The Mouser things look like they don't belong -- like the chop jobs on radios that show up everyday on eBay when somebody decided they liked something other than originals.  I have 60 year old radios with original knobs, and as long as I don't use a driver-drill to tighten them, I'm not too worried about replacements from the long extinct manufacturer.   I wouldn't be inclined to buy a radio that has aftermarket junk screwed to it -- and once removed, originals tend to find their way to the same mysterious place that missing socks go ... :-)

Grant/NQ5T
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[Julian, G4ILO]

Grant Youngman wrote

Elecraft has made available a new composition knob that will apparently cause the set screws to pulverize before the plastic cracks.  Just contact support.

The question in my mind is whether only those who had knobs from the bad batch will have this problem or whether everyone who don't have the latest super-tough versions will have a failure sooner or later. When someone has a knob disintegrate and then the replacement they are sent also disintegrates you start to wonder if the problem isn't more widespread. I don't have any broken knobs yet so I can't ask for replacements but I no longer have confidence that the knobs I have will last the life of the radio.

[Phil LaMarche-2]

I have serial nr 1605, use the K3 for hours every day and haven't had a
single problem with the knobs?

Phil


Philip LaMarche
LaMarche Enterprises, Inc.
www.instantgourmetspices.com

www.w9dvm.com
800-395-7795 pin 02
727-944-3226
FAX [phone]
NASFT 30210

K3  #1605

CCA 98  00827
CRA 1701

W9DVM



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 5:43 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Broken AF knob and bad service to geta
replacement.



Grant Youngman wrote:
>
> Elecraft has made available a new composition knob that will
> apparently cause the set screws to pulverize before the plastic
> cracks.  Just contact support.
>

The question in my mind is whether only those who had knobs from the bad
batch will have this problem or whether everyone who don't have the latest
super-tough versions will have a failure sooner or later. When someone has a
knob disintegrate and then the replacement they are sent also disintegrates
you start to wonder if the problem isn't more widespread. I don't have any
broken knobs yet so I can't ask for replacements but I no longer have
confidence that the knobs I have will last the life of the radio.

-----
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

--
View this message in context:
http://n2.nabble.com/Re-K3-Broken-AF-knob-and-bad-service-to-get-a-replaceme
nt-tp4105974p4109416.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[P.B. Christensen]

First, I have no doubt the new polycarbonate knobs are much more resistant
to cracking.  In my case two separate knob sets cracked shortly after taking
the K3 out into 30-degree WX.  In both instances, the knobs were very
loosely fitted during their installation.  Over-tightening was not the root
cause.

The aluminum knobs from Mouser look significantly better on the radio than
what you see in that photo.  In fact, under normal lighting, it's difficult
to tell there's anything much different.  The K3 panel and the knobs are
nearly identical in color.  It's a shame that the negative comments are
coming from those who have never tried the aluminum knobs and the decision
is being based on a single poorly-lighted photo and not even the cost of the
knob set.

My guess is that those of us who have actually tried the premium Alcoswitch
knobs would never go back to the old knobs -- even with a lifetime guarantee
against cracking.  The multi-million dollar automotive aftermarket is really
no different.  Plenty of aftermarket products are sold for our autos that
don't quite match the rest of the vehicle.

Paul, W9AC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Youngman" <[hidden email]>
To: "Reflector Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Broken AF knob and bad service togeta
replacement.

> Elecraft has made available a new composition knob that will apparently
> cause the set screws to pulverize before the plastic cracks.  Just contact
> support.
>
> I'm wondering what all the hoot is, still, about knobs. The Mouser things
> look like they don't belong -- like the chop jobs on radios that show up
> everyday on eBay when somebody decided they liked something other than
> originals.  I have 60 year old radios with original knobs, and as long as
> I don't use a driver-drill to tighten them, I'm not too worried about
> replacements from the long extinct manufacturer.   I wouldn't be inclined
> to buy a radio that has aftermarket junk screwed to it -- and once
> removed, originals tend to find their way to the same mysterious place
> that missing socks go ... :-)
>
> Grant/NQ5T
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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[N5GE]

On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 13:36:04 -0800, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
wrote:

The broken knobs can also be caused by tightening the set screw too
tight.  If one has a tendency to tighten everything until they get
blisters on there fingers they will eventually crack one of those
knobs.  I'm not suggesting that is the problem in this case, but it's
a good idea to only tighten set screws in plastic knobs until only
tight enough to hold them on the shaft.

>I may be biased (I designed the K3's knobs, switches, LCD, and  
>packaging with intent to have everything match, aesthetically), but I  
>strongly recommend *not* changing the knobs to anything else.
>
>If you're only doing it because you have one that's defective, please  
>request a replacement from Elecraft. We had a batch manufactured with  
>the wrong material, and I thought we had sent replacements to all  
>affected K3 owners, but perhaps not.
>
>If you're doing it because you'd like machined aluminum knobs rather  
>than plastic, send me a private email telling me how much you'd be  
>willing to pay for a complete set of them :)  It is certainly possible  
>to have them made from aluminum, but the cost would be dramatically  
>higher. Off the top of my head I'm guessing it would have added  
>$150-200 to the cost of the radio.
>
>Mouser aluminum knobs (or any other off-the-shelf knobs) will not  
>match the K3. I'd rather design new ones from scratch.
>
>But I personally like the molded plastic knobs, which are easy on the  
>fingers.
>
>73,
>Wayne
>N6KR
>

[snip]

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[drewko]

I have #1029 and no problems so far with the original knobs. I use the
rig almost every day. Also the ambient temperature and humidity
variations are fairly variable here as well, if that means anything.
 
--
73,
Drew
AF2Z



On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:52:27 -0500, you wrote:

>
>I have serial nr 1605, use the K3 for hours every day and haven't had a
>single problem with the knobs?
>
>Phil
>
>
>Philip LaMarche
>LaMarche Enterprises, Inc.
>www.instantgourmetspices.com
>

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[Matt Zilmer]

People will change the ID any way they want.  If that includes
changing knobs to something that wasn't custom designed, seems like
there's nothing to be done.  There was someone who put on a bluish
sidelight some time ago, and another that modified control labels.
Even one that stenciled something on the LCD panel lens...

Personally I like the knob set on the K3 as-is.  Reasons:

- Aesthetics.  Surface and groove radius are similar to the K3
enclosure.

- Just the right size.  YMMV here.

- Proper weighting, meaning torque to turn, and initial stiction.

- Deep enough to operate using finger tips or pads, but no so deep
that they change the unit's depth dimension by too much.

- Frobbing of the VFO knobs (both, imho) allows enough play to spin
them.  So the flywheel effect is about right.  You can adjust
"flywheel-ability" to suit yourself.

- Fine control just takes getting used to.  Same on any rig.

All in all, a good compromise between cost, look & feel, size, and
human engineering.  

Just my $0.02.  Don't start a flame war over this.  It's not worth it.
73,
matt W6NIA
K3 #24, K2 #2810

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:36:04 -0800, you wrote:

>I may be biased (I designed the K3's knobs, switches, LCD, and  
>packaging with intent to have everything match, aesthetically), but I  
>strongly recommend *not* changing the knobs to anything else.
>
>If you're only doing it because you have one that's defective, please  
>request a replacement from Elecraft. We had a batch manufactured with  
>the wrong material, and I thought we had sent replacements to all  
>affected K3 owners, but perhaps not.
>
>If you're doing it because you'd like machined aluminum knobs rather  
>than plastic, send me a private email telling me how much you'd be  
>willing to pay for a complete set of them :)  It is certainly possible  
>to have them made from aluminum, but the cost would be dramatically  
>higher. Off the top of my head I'm guessing it would have added  
>$150-200 to the cost of the radio.
>
>Mouser aluminum knobs (or any other off-the-shelf knobs) will not  
>match the K3. I'd rather design new ones from scratch.
>
>But I personally like the molded plastic knobs, which are easy on the  
>fingers.
>
>73,
>Wayne
>N6KR
>
>
>[hidden email] wrote:
>
>>> To be honest I don't think they suit the look of the K3. They don't  
>>> even
>>> match the other knobs. It might be a solution in ten years time  
>>> when a knob
>>> breaks and Elecraft doesn't make them any more, but that's the  
>>> situation I'd
>>> really like to avoid.
>
>
>
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