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Re: K3 is an SDR?

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John Lawrence

Re: K3 is an SDR?

Don

As I'd expect, you did a beautiful job summarizing the difference between the K3 and KX3
design architecture.

I'd call the K3 a hybrid SDR and the KX3 a true SDR?

What's interesting to me comes from looking at the leap forward in component technology to make
direct SDR from RF possible. This is the evolution in the chip level devices it takes to gain this single step conversion
to baseband. Faster and more agile DSP, A/D and D/A etc ICs are at the heart of the step forward
between the K3 and KX3.

The companies producing these chips were at my fingertips back in the days 10 to 20 years ago. Then they were only able
to make it to lower frequency IF stages with costly designs only found in the top high tech applications such as those found in government surveillance.

Back then Burr Brown, Analog Devices, Texas Instruments, Motorola, Lucent/Bell Labs were working hard with competitive designs. Semiconductor foundry geometries were heading for half micron on 4" or 6" silicon back then.

The software development tools allowing greater coding efficiencies is another area that has played a major roll to bring us to this point.

And, his was all done within our free enterprise environment by private/public capitalized US businesses.

Happy Holidays

John, W1QS

Waldoboro, Maine

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 is an SDR?

> I'd call the K3 a hybrid SDR and the KX3 a true SDR?

No - both are hybrid SDRs if that's the term you want to apply.
The K3 is a traditional IF based superhetrodyne/SDR where the
KX3 is a "zero IF" or direct conversion SDR. The K3 uses two
stages of IF - 8.125 MHz and 15 KHz - with SDR modulation and
demodulation at 15 KHz. The KX3 is a direct conversion (RF to
DC) front end with SDR based I/Q modulation and demodulation.

Neither is a "pure" SDR if your definition of a "true" SDR is
"on frequency" analog to digital and digital to analog conversion.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 12/23/2012 1:34 PM, John Lawrence wrote:

>
>
>
> Don
>
> As I'd expect, you did a beautiful job summarizing the difference between the K3 and KX3
> design architecture.
>
> I'd call the K3 a hybrid SDR and the KX3 a true SDR?
>
> What's interesting to me comes from looking at the leap forward in component technology to make
> direct SDR from RF possible. This is the evolution in the chip level devices it takes to gain this single step conversion
> to baseband. Faster and more agile DSP, A/D and D/A etc ICs are at the heart of the step forward
> between the K3 and KX3.
>
> The companies producing these chips were at my fingertips back in the days 10 to 20 years ago. Then they were only able
> to make it to lower frequency IF stages with costly designs only found in the top high tech applications such as those found in government surveillance.
>
> Back then Burr Brown, Analog Devices, Texas Instruments, Motorola, Lucent/Bell Labs were working hard with competitive designs. Semiconductor foundry geometries were heading for half micron on 4" or 6" silicon back then.
>
> The software development tools allowing greater coding efficiencies is another area that has played a major roll to bring us to this point.
>
> And, his was all done within our free enterprise environment by private/public capitalized US businesses.
>
>
>
> Happy Holidays
>
>
>
>
>
> John, W1QS
>
>
> Waldoboro, Maine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

______________________________________________________________
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Rick Tavan N6XI

Re: K3 is an SDR?

In reply to this post by John Lawrence

I dunno, folks, we may be gilding lilies trying to define SDR. If software
handles modulation and demodulation, that's SDR to me. The K3 and KX3 both
fit fine.

/Rick

On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 10:34 AM, John Lawrence <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> Don
>
> As I'd expect, you did a beautiful job summarizing the difference between
> the K3 and KX3
> design architecture.
>
> I'd call the K3 a hybrid SDR and the KX3 a true SDR?
>
> What's interesting to me comes from looking at the leap forward in
> component technology to make
> direct SDR from RF possible. This is the evolution in the chip level
> devices it takes to gain this single step conversion
> to baseband. Faster and more agile DSP, A/D and D/A etc ICs are at the
> heart of the step forward
> between the K3 and KX3.
>
> The companies producing these chips were at my fingertips back in the days
> 10 to 20 years ago. Then they were only able
> to make it to lower frequency IF stages with costly designs only found in
> the top high tech applications such as those found in government
> surveillance.
>
> Back then Burr Brown, Analog Devices, Texas Instruments, Motorola,
> Lucent/Bell Labs were working hard with competitive designs. Semiconductor
> foundry geometries were heading for half micron on 4" or 6" silicon back
> then.
>
> The software development tools allowing greater coding efficiencies is
> another area that has played a major roll to bring us to this point.
>
> And, his was all done within our free enterprise environment by
> private/public capitalized US businesses.
>
>
>
> Happy Holidays
>
>
>
>
>
> John, W1QS
>
>
> Waldoboro, Maine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--
Rick Tavan N6XI
Truckee, CA
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Mike Reublin

Re: K3 is an SDR?

Maybe some light would be shed if those who think the K2 is NOT a SDR would detail why.

73, Mike NF4L

On Dec 23, 2012, at 5:55 PM, Rick Tavan N6XI <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I dunno, folks, we may be gilding lilies trying to define SDR. If software
> handles modulation and demodulation, that's SDR to me. The K3 and KX3 both
> fit fine.
>
> /Rick
>
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 10:34 AM, John Lawrence <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Don
>>
>> As I'd expect, you did a beautiful job summarizing the difference between
>> the K3 and KX3
>> design architecture.
>>
>> I'd call the K3 a hybrid SDR and the KX3 a true SDR?
>>
>> What's interesting to me comes from looking at the leap forward in
>> component technology to make
>> direct SDR from RF possible. This is the evolution in the chip level
>> devices it takes to gain this single step conversion
>> to baseband. Faster and more agile DSP, A/D and D/A etc ICs are at the
>> heart of the step forward
>> between the K3 and KX3.
>>
>> The companies producing these chips were at my fingertips back in the days
>> 10 to 20 years ago. Then they were only able
>> to make it to lower frequency IF stages with costly designs only found in
>> the top high tech applications such as those found in government
>> surveillance.
>>
>> Back then Burr Brown, Analog Devices, Texas Instruments, Motorola,
>> Lucent/Bell Labs were working hard with competitive designs. Semiconductor
>> foundry geometries were heading for half micron on 4" or 6" silicon back
>> then.
>>
>> The software development tools allowing greater coding efficiencies is
>> another area that has played a major roll to bring us to this point.
>>
>> And, his was all done within our free enterprise environment by
>> private/public capitalized US businesses.
>>
>>
>>
>> Happy Holidays
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John, W1QS
>>
>>
>> Waldoboro, Maine
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Rick Tavan N6XI
> Truckee, CA
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Rogers, W4ATK

Re: K3 is an SDR?

The K2 is definitely not an SDR. The K2 uses traditional rf amps, mixers, if amps, crystal filters in the if, and a product detector, followed by an audio amp. Elecraft does offer an add on audio DSP option which works quite well.

JIm, W4ATK
On Dec 24, 2012, at 7:39 AM, Mike Reublin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Maybe some light would be shed if those who think the K2 is NOT a SDR would detail why.
>
> 73, Mike NF4L
>
> On Dec 23, 2012, at 5:55 PM, Rick Tavan N6XI <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I dunno, folks, we may be gilding lilies trying to define SDR. If software
>> handles modulation and demodulation, that's SDR to me. The K3 and KX3 both
>> fit fine.
>>
>> /Rick
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 10:34 AM, John Lawrence <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>> As I'd expect, you did a beautiful job summarizing the difference between
>>> the K3 and KX3
>>> design architecture.
>>>
>>> I'd call the K3 a hybrid SDR and the KX3 a true SDR?
>>>
>>> What's interesting to me comes from looking at the leap forward in
>>> component technology to make
>>> direct SDR from RF possible. This is the evolution in the chip level
>>> devices it takes to gain this single step conversion
>>> to baseband. Faster and more agile DSP, A/D and D/A etc ICs are at the
>>> heart of the step forward
>>> between the K3 and KX3.
>>>
>>> The companies producing these chips were at my fingertips back in the days
>>> 10 to 20 years ago. Then they were only able
>>> to make it to lower frequency IF stages with costly designs only found in
>>> the top high tech applications such as those found in government
>>> surveillance.
>>>
>>> Back then Burr Brown, Analog Devices, Texas Instruments, Motorola,
>>> Lucent/Bell Labs were working hard with competitive designs. Semiconductor
>>> foundry geometries were heading for half micron on 4" or 6" silicon back
>>> then.
>>>
>>> The software development tools allowing greater coding efficiencies is
>>> another area that has played a major roll to bring us to this point.
>>>
>>> And, his was all done within our free enterprise environment by
>>> private/public capitalized US businesses.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Happy Holidays
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John, W1QS
>>>
>>>
>>> Waldoboro, Maine
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rick Tavan N6XI
>> Truckee, CA
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Rogers, W4ATK

Re: K3 is an SDR?

Perhaps a bit more explanatory....

The K2 is definitely not an SDR. The K2 uses traditional rf amps, mixers, if amplifier, crystal filters in the if and a product detector, followed by an audio amp, none of which are defined in software. Elecraft does offer an add on audio DSP option which works quite well.

Jim, W4ATK
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html